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12/05/12 11:38:07 AM#121
Originally posted by mikahr Ah, then.
It would generate a playerbase who "played by the rules" to optimize their character by selecting the correct choices. Not what they wanted, but the correct choices none-the-less, in their eyes.
Early WoW suffered from this too. Players were coerced into choosing a skill tree that would optimize their class. Sure other options were available, but a player could choose anything they wanted! Raid groups had specific requirements, so players chose builds, which soon after became cookie-cutter builds to do raids ... which became standards for other hopeful guilds.
You see, someone might kill companions the first time around. But after learning that they can only make, say, 30k credits a day with 3 companions instead of 50k a day with 5 companions, they will start "playing by the rules" and never kill another companion, ever. Killing companions would just be for trash characters --- just to see what happens, before you delete them to make room. Characters with less than max companions are .. essentially useless, compared to a brand new one with max companions.
PS: I hate dailies. I won't do them, they can rot in hell. I used to do them in WoW, but I'm really sick of them. In my time with SWTOR I think I did 10 daily quests. They started to repeat, it was stupid.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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12/05/12 1:38:29 PM#122
Originally posted by Karteli It doesnt matter, it was RPG choice with consequences and theres nothing to spend credits on anyway (i had 25m before i quit in february) and that required only 1 companion. And afaik there was no way to kill your ship droid. And i dont really see the connection between "getting 30k or 35k credits" and "effectivness in combat" since credits mean absolutely nothing in SWTOR and by far most effective way to credits require only 1 companion which you have by default. Anyways, this wasnt ONLY thing they totally dumbed down when WoW-ification started. Crafting is useless and just another credit sink (except Biochem but they will made it 1 step above uselsess by cutting off reusable stuff). |
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12/05/12 2:04:11 PM#123
Originally posted by mikahr For RP, I will totally agree with you. Stuff like we're discussing matters!
However, at the time when the decision to scrap companion deaths was made, SWTOR was well into beta. Beta is never a place to make big changes - just small ones ... and Crew Skills were already set in stone.
What might have been interesting is if EA allowed companion kills only on RP servers.
Oh Btw, I never mentioned stuff you mentioned, like your quote of "combat effectiveness". I do however agree with your mention of WoW-ification. That hurt SWTOR more than any other factor combined.
I also agree with you that crafting in SWTOR is a useless experience. It may as well not exist. Biochem has it's uses, but the others are without purpose. Spend time and money to make inferior gear....use reverse engineering to unlock items you will never make! Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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12/05/12 2:06:27 PM#124
Originally posted by Karteli Crafting is far from useless. Each craft that doesn't make consumables has there own augments to make to be sold so players can use the same modifiable gear as long as they want. You don't get those rewards from quests (at least all you need) and they don't sell the best that crafters could make from NPC's. They have more than the typical themepark game anyways. |
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12/05/12 2:09:10 PM#125
Originally posted by Draron Everything crafted is substandard though, isn't it? Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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12/05/12 2:10:53 PM#126
Originally posted by Karteli No. The best augments for leveling gear is obtained by reverse engineering the standard crafting stuff. No offense, but your spouting out stuff that you don't know of. This explains it: http://www.lonestranger.net/swtor/re/SWTOR_RE_GUIDE.png It's slightly out of date but still shows the basis. |
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12/05/12 2:19:50 PM#127
Originally posted by Draron A cool chart!
BTW, I knew what I said, when I said it. I was not talking about leveling gear, NOR did I even mention leveling gear.
I was talking about end-game stuff, since the vast majority of time spent in SWTOR (or any themepark MMORPG) is at end-game.. or at least for the people who stick around / stuck around.
So I guess I need to clarify each time I mention the uselessness of crafting :P ... crafting is a useless experience at end-game, because the rewards are inferior.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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12/05/12 2:22:32 PM#128
Originally posted by Karteli Aaaaahhh, my mistake. I guess I should've clarified I was talking of leveling gear when you said everything's inferior after I mentioned quests which made it clear I was talking of leveling, no? You call it clarifying, I call it backtracking. At least that's how I see it. Besides, the first tier of endgame has a few modable slots and an augment slot - though the higher up ones only have an augment. It even has a slight use at endgame and high level PVP. |
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12/05/12 2:35:43 PM#129
I have thought about it. IF Bioware / EA was serious rather than angrily defensive when they claimed that listening to the fans made them put together SWTOR in the way they did... THEN I DON"T WANT THEM LISTENING TO THE FANS.
I'd rather they did what they wanted to make a good game and everyone else can take it or leave it because the end result would still be better than the mess that exists now.
PS: I meant this for the news thread originally and accidentally put it here too. |
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12/05/12 2:44:26 PM#130
Originally posted by Draron I suppose so. Although if game markets are predominantly focused on leveling gear and not end-game gear, that says something about game retention .. or at least where the bulk of players reside. More players have never hit the level cap than those who hit the level cap. The "F2P" throws this off too, since now a bunch of players are in those lower levels. It's still a cruddy crafting system though.
What would be neat is if a player could take older items and farm like hell to make a better item. Maybe make a Party Jawa have double the time duration if a specific crew skill combined an incredible amount of harvestable mats. Or even better make the Party Jawa have an unlimited time if the original owner combines it with an incredible amount or rare mats. Stuff like that. It could be repeated with other non-combat items to "make them better!".
As it stands though, end-game-crafting is useless in SWTOR. It's boring, and the new items are just a stat increase over the past set. The max set is inferior to what any max level character would want to wear. If I were to mention WoW, I might mention that they had craftable items which had unique effects, only obtainable via crafting :P Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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12/05/12 2:56:59 PM#131
Originally posted by mnwild1998 Great correlation, .. because playing a flashpoint is just like crafting. /fail Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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12/05/12 2:57:53 PM#132
Originally posted by Karteli Great dodging the point. /fail. He was explaining that even the crew skills that don't make augments have there place in endgame - the crafted stims that buff stats are pretty much a requirement. I'm done here, it's becoming clear Karteli doesn't know what he's talking about and still tries to diss that element of the game. That's what I call a hater. |
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12/05/12 3:02:07 PM#133
Originally posted by Draron I made my points. If you would like to defend the previous poster further, perhaps you can elaborate on how flashpoints relate to crafting? Or how dismissing a topic on flashpoints is dodging a discussion on crafting?
Hater? /sigh .. well good night then.
EDIT: since you continually edit your posts: Yes BioChem is very useful to playing SWTOR. That's the only crew skill that has a use? Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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12/05/12 3:03:38 PM#134
Originally posted by Karteli This whole discussion was how crafting relates to endgame. The flashpoint he referenced and how crafted stims play a role directly relates to the discussion, as Lost Island is a stepping stone to endgame - it's the last before you start operations. As to how crafting outside of biochem is useful to endgame, I'll explain one more time. At endgame, you do operations for gear. That gear has open mod slots (for lower tier endgame gear) and augment slots (every tier of endgame gear has at least a few of these). The best stat items you can fill these with are reverse-engineered crafted items (there's a few exceptions, as some world mobs drop a few best in slot items, but a majority belong to crew skills). I don't understand why you ask to explain it if you've said before that it is useless unless you just want to bash the game. -_- |
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12/05/12 3:09:51 PM#135
So basically, if i am a casual player, with only interest in lvling up for now, see the world and do some quests but i'm not very keen on doing instances more than once and rarely do pvp, prefered status should satisfy most of my needs?
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12/05/12 3:17:26 PM#136
Originally posted by gambe1 The biggest hurdles you'll have are reduced XP (though from what I've heard if you do all planet/storyline quests you're never gonna be underleveled)/unable to equip purple gear/race restrictions/unable to hide your helm (it can be annoying). Besides those restrictions, you should be fine if you just wanna run through the storyline from 1 to 50. If you wanna read up on the exact details: http://www.swtor.com/free/features |
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12/05/12 3:24:16 PM#137
Originally posted by Draron Crafting has nothing to do with obtaining end-game gear.
So you are saying crafting is useful in SWTOR, yet only those who can make BioChem items, Augments, and Mods are actually useful. And what are the mats to make these items? What about the rest of the crew skills? Do you see an imbalance here?
PS: I would use that defense too "I don't understand why you ask to explain it if you've said before that it is useless unless you just want to bash the game." .... accuse someone of bashing a game if cornered into a hole. Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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12/05/12 3:30:58 PM#138
Originally posted by Karteli Each crew skill outside of Cybertech and Biochem (that's not gathering) makes augments for specific gear types. Synthweaving makes them for light armor, Armormech for heavier gear. Artifice for lightsabers and such, Armstech for the firearms. Cybertech makes mods for gear (not augments). And we know what Biochem does. The others are just for gathering mats, which are used for the crafting skills. So yes, they all have a use for endgame (though Cybertech to a lesser extent when you get to top tier as they have lesser mod slots). And no, I'm not bashing you because you asked for an explanation. You're speaking of what you don't know of as fact to bash the game. A few posts back, you said crafting is useless in SWTOR. I mentioned leveling uses. You said endgame is useless, thus it's useless for a themepark game. I give reasons why they're useful at endgame. Now we're here. If you didn't know they were useful or not, why did you say they weren't? That's hating, plain and simple. |
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12/05/12 3:46:05 PM#139
Originally posted by Draron In my experience, endgame crafting in SWTOR is useless. There is nothing unique about end-game crafting from skill to skill (outside BioChem which we discussed).
I can craft all the latest and greatest item enhancements.. but why would I bother? So can everyone else .. and yes the game was out long enough for most max level players to have alts. So everyone else can.
I proposed ideas for crafting new and elevated items, based on older items, earlier in this thread, but it was met with silence.
The current crafting system in SWTOR is BORING .. and in turn useless because it is boring and useless (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean). It's only usefullness it to keep up with new patches and their item stats that go along with it, which are .. guess .. boring!
And I don't hate SWTOR exactly... I consider my relationship with SWTOR a love-hate relationship. Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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12/05/12 3:50:45 PM#140
Originally posted by Karteli Going into whether the crafting skills are useful based on there utility and whether or not everyone else can craft them is an entirely different matter. Another topic, another day. Personal preference on whether it's fun or not doesn't make it useless as far as supplying items goes. Though it's not as simple as you think - leveling a craft to max doesn't equal having all the endgame recipes. You have to reverse engineer rare drops to unlock rarer recipes (which happens at a lower and lower % of chance the rarer the item you RE is) as that chart I linked before showed, and only then can you craft the item. Obviously everyone can't craft them, as there's a healthy market for the rarer goods. For example, I searched the official forums for making credits. The first result was full of people giving advice on reverse engineer everything, sell them on the market once you get the recipes, sell augments, and sell the rare materials from gathering crew skills: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=565127 |
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