Originally posted by Malcanis

 

How many damb times?! Short range missiles are getting a massive buff. Now they're actually viable, so you don't have to use low DPS long range weapons, you can have some fun actually flying your ship.

980 DPS HAM Tengu. Do it!

Malcanis do you work for CCP ? Direct or indirect ? Because your posts dont make sense .

I forgot how many times missiles nerfed since i joined game tech2 /tech1/speed buff = indirect missile nerf  /torp nerf  range nerf / speed balance and missile nerf again / again another missile nerf not talking about ''tweaks '' fyi

What you forgot is time people spend for these skills ,since skill gain is real time nerf = loss of real time .Drake and tengu were last missile ships in pvp /fleet  and some people tgrained because of alliance fits .

And about that fake big numbers , how many of that damage applied to a Ab  frigate or cruiser ? Numbers mean nothing if you cant apply  ,but you dont talk about this.

I was playing before and after the nanonerf went down. It wasn't an "indirect nerf"; missile ships went from being a joke in PvP, to, you know, useful.

I don't work for CCP. I'm just sick of seeing people baww like little babies about a single aspect of the change and ignoring the rest that actually benefits them because they refuse to even consider changing the way they do things.

Christ, in the end the overall difference even to HML Tengus is tiny, because the improvements in the Fury missiles make up for it.

Dry your eyes, start up your brains and bloody well adapt.

Jesus.

In the mean time people not whining on mmorpg.com are enjoying themselfs ingame...

Just like always.

Sorry but the world has not ended and EVE aint going anywhere.

'nuf said.

Originally posted by Exavus
So Should I be happy I picked Amarr ships?

Hell yeah!

Armor tank + lazorz = The Win!

The mighty Nerfbat has allways been around, and I've simply adapted over the years. Nowadays no Nerfbat can scare me anymore, as I've trained all subcapital Ship, Drone, Gun and Missile-skills to LvL 5. So aslong as they don't introduce anything really new on the skill-side, they can nerf what they want, as I'll be able to adapt within a few minutes, aka switching ships and setups.

Whining about nerfs just shows how inflexible you are. So HTFU!

Insane passive shield-tanks combined with the range and DPS of HMLs was due to be nerfed for the last two years allready, just like stacking 8 Heatsinks on an Apocalypse was back in 2004.

Originally posted by Yalexy

The mighty Nerfbat has allways been around, and I've simply adapted over the years. Nowadays no Nerfbat can scare me anymore, as I've trained all subcapital Ship, Drone, Gun and Missile-skills to LvL 5. So aslong as they don't introduce anything really new on the skill-side, they can nerf what they want, as I'll be able to adapt within a few minutes, aka switching ships and setups.

Whining about nerfs just shows how inflexible you are. So HTFU!

Insane passive shield-tanks combined with the range and DPS of HMLs was due to be nerfed for the last two years allready, just like stacking 8 Heatsinks on an Apocalypse was back in 2004.

I think you mean buffer tanks, not passive. Passive tanked Drakes do pathetic DPS.

Originally posted by jagd1

And about that fake big numbers , how many of that damage applied to a Ab  frigate or cruiser ? Numbers mean nothing if you cant apply  ,but you dont talk about this.

 

Yeah and how much of any others BCs dps apply to the same AB frigate/Cruiser? Unless you web it or are faster ... none.

Also his number wasn't fake, its actually doable in a pvp fit since you have the lows free for damage mods anyway. Unless you fly nano tengu that is ...

/end thread for me though is that between Tengu and Drake there are 4 weapon systems, the very fact that a change to one of them makes people cry like its the end of the world, while the buffs to the other 3 get completely ignored shows us what this is about: Bringing a OP system a bit more inline with the rest of new eden.

HMs get nerfed because everyone was abusing the heck out of them. I should know because i was one of those abusing them.

---

Originally posted by Malcanis
I don't work for CCP. I'm just sick of seeing people baww like little babies about a single aspect of the change and ignoring the rest that actually benefits them because they refuse to even consider changing the way they do things.

---

Yeah. And I have no tolerance - and never will have any tolerance - for people who actively argue against a game being well-balanced because they want it to be unbalanced in their favour. Like the guy upthread who flat-out said that he "don't give a damn" if something is unbalanced and overpowered, if he spent his precious skill points on it, it better stay unbalanced and overpowered, or CCP owe him a refund.

Originally posted by jagd1

Originally posted by Malcanis

 

How many damb times?! Short range missiles are getting a massive buff. Now they're actually viable, so you don't have to use low DPS long range weapons, you can have some fun actually flying your ship.

980 DPS HAM Tengu. Do it!

Malcanis do you work for CCP ? Direct or indirect ? Because your posts dont make sense .

I forgot how many times missiles nerfed since i joined game tech2 /tech1/speed buff = indirect missile nerf  /torp nerf  range nerf / speed balance and missile nerf again / again another missile nerf not talking about ''tweaks '' fyi

What you forgot is time people spend for these skills ,since skill gain is real time nerf = loss of real time .Drake and tengu were last missile ships in pvp /fleet  and some people tgrained because of alliance fits .

 

And about that fake big numbers , how many of that damage applied to a Ab  frigate or cruiser ? Numbers mean nothing if you cant apply  ,but you dont talk about this. 

Oh come on dude a tengu pilot has more than got his/her return on their skill investments.

The ship was overpowered to rediculous proportions and required no talent to fly.

I was a tengu pilot and as a tengu pilot I read the blog and thought to myself "it was fun while it lasted" which is something anyone that flew a tengu should think.  Hell, flying a Tengu was like discovering an exploit!

It's a minor change that brings that ship a bit back down to earth which at the most will set a disgruntled pilot back a whopping 3 months.  Which means that If you've been playing for longer than 3 months you've most likely picked up enough skills to fit a different ship if you honestly believe these changes will make the tengu unplayable.

Originally posted by Teala
Biggest news coming from EVE is the death of WIS.   Team Avatar is no more and WIS is not even going to be a part of the game any longer.   So the walking in closets is all WIS will ever be.   Here I thought CCP was a game company that was truly making a difference in the MMO industry...I was sadly mistaken.   

Yeah i called this years ago when they announced dust i was liek wtf this is trash. How about you make it part of the actual game .. or not at all.

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by jagd1

Originally posted by Malcanis

 

How many damb times?! Short range missiles are getting a massive buff. Now they're actually viable, so you don't have to use low DPS long range weapons, you can have some fun actually flying your ship.

980 DPS HAM Tengu. Do it!

Malcanis do you work for CCP ? Direct or indirect ? Because your posts dont make sense .

I forgot how many times missiles nerfed since i joined game tech2 /tech1/speed buff = indirect missile nerf  /torp nerf  range nerf / speed balance and missile nerf again / again another missile nerf not talking about ''tweaks '' fyi

What you forgot is time people spend for these skills ,since skill gain is real time nerf = loss of real time .Drake and tengu were last missile ships in pvp /fleet  and some people tgrained because of alliance fits .

 

And about that fake big numbers , how many of that damage applied to a Ab  frigate or cruiser ? Numbers mean nothing if you cant apply  ,but you dont talk about this. 

Oh come on dude a tengu pilot has more than got his/her return on their skill investments.

The ship was overpowered to rediculous proportions and required no talent to fly.

I was a tengu pilot and as a tengu pilot I read the blog and thought to myself "it was fun while it lasted" which is something anyone that flew a tengu should think.  Hell, flying a Tengu was like discovering an exploit!

It's a minor change that brings that ship a bit back down to earth which at the most will set a disgruntled pilot back a whopping 3 months.  Which means that If you've been playing for longer than 3 months you've most likely picked up enough skills to fit a different ship if you honestly believe these changes will make the tengu unplayable.

Tengu it still viable as heck. Still oen of the better ships to l4 in i mean, cheer.

Makes nightmares and machs looka  bit better.  But its not a big deal seeing as anyone shootign for tengu that doesn't feel its worth anymore can sit in a CNR farm l4s all day long and train tosomethign else. Or not.

Tried out my close-to-1000 DPS HAMgu last night. It has zero issues hitting Angel Elite frigates with T1 ammo, and it absolutely smashed through the BC & BS rats.

Whacking BS with T2 Rage is made much nicer by not getting the sig radius penalty, so you don't take as much DPS on approach, and effectivly none while orbiting.

The main change I found was that you basically have to plan 1 target group ahead, ie start moving towards the next group of ships before the current one you're hitting is finished in order to maintain your fire, compared to the old HML tengu which was basically burn to acceleration gate & orbit until all rats are dead. Make sure to reload at every opportunity when you're not firing.

Rigs on the Tengu are:

T1 Hydraulic Thruster

2x T2 Rigors

All in all, the experience was closer to flying a Machariel, with similar DPS. I recommend it.

124km range is now 97km range and dmg took a big hit

switch to hams or crosstrain like I did when I read the blog about the nerf months ago.

CCP have NEVER done a nerf/change right yet to date. The nerf bat always hits harder then they plan.

The tengu has been a bit op since the start did it need that big of a kick? well no. Did it need to be a bit more in-line with the other T3's? very much so.

Originally posted by Malcanis

Tried out my close-to-1000 DPS HAMgu last night. It has zero issues hitting Angel Elite frigates with T1 ammo, and it absolutely smashed through the BC & BS rats.

Whacking BS with T2 Rage is made much nicer by not getting the sig radius penalty, so you don't take as much DPS on approach, and effectivly none while orbiting.

 

The main change I found was that you basically have to plan 1 target group ahead, ie start moving towards the next group of ships before the current one you're hitting is finished in order to maintain your fire, compared to the old HML tengu which was basically burn to acceleration gate & orbit until all rats are dead. Make sure to reload at every opportunity when you're not firing.

 

Rigs on the Tengu are:

T1 Hydraulic Thruster

2x T2 Rigors

All in all, the experience was closer to flying a Machariel, with similar DPS. I recommend it.

LOL, does anyone still run L4s like I do, in a Battleship?  (Maelstrom in fact)  Probably not.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Malcanis

Tried out my close-to-1000 DPS HAMgu last night. It has zero issues hitting Angel Elite frigates with T1 ammo, and it absolutely smashed through the BC & BS rats.

Whacking BS with T2 Rage is made much nicer by not getting the sig radius penalty, so you don't take as much DPS on approach, and effectivly none while orbiting.

 

The main change I found was that you basically have to plan 1 target group ahead, ie start moving towards the next group of ships before the current one you're hitting is finished in order to maintain your fire, compared to the old HML tengu which was basically burn to acceleration gate & orbit until all rats are dead. Make sure to reload at every opportunity when you're not firing.

 

Rigs on the Tengu are:

T1 Hydraulic Thruster

2x T2 Rigors

All in all, the experience was closer to flying a Machariel, with similar DPS. I recommend it.

LOL, does anyone still run L4s like I do, in a Battleship?  (Maelstrom in fact)  Probably not.

 

Raven pilot reporting in :)

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Malcanis

Tried out my close-to-1000 DPS HAMgu last night. It has zero issues hitting Angel Elite frigates with T1 ammo, and it absolutely smashed through the BC & BS rats.

Whacking BS with T2 Rage is made much nicer by not getting the sig radius penalty, so you don't take as much DPS on approach, and effectivly none while orbiting.

 

The main change I found was that you basically have to plan 1 target group ahead, ie start moving towards the next group of ships before the current one you're hitting is finished in order to maintain your fire, compared to the old HML tengu which was basically burn to acceleration gate & orbit until all rats are dead. Make sure to reload at every opportunity when you're not firing.

 

Rigs on the Tengu are:

T1 Hydraulic Thruster

2x T2 Rigors

All in all, the experience was closer to flying a Machariel, with similar DPS. I recommend it.

LOL, does anyone still run L4s like I do, in a Battleship?  (Maelstrom in fact)  Probably not.

 

Only posers fly anything but BS class vessels in missions, the only point there ever was to that was probe immune ships for mission running in lowsec or 0.0. Im saying that as someone who loves cruisers and BCs, and hates flying the cumbersome BS. Problem is threefold: 

1. The lower range on the medium guns for the turret ships. Many many rats tend to orbit outside optimal(some around 60km), and once they established their orbits you end up drawing a 3D pentagram into space or using ineffective very long distance ammo.

2. Missile DPS lower than expected due to sig, speed and defenders. With hams you end up with the pentagram in space again.

3. Not enough dronespace to effectively kill frigates. BS can kill frigates with drones while killing cruisers and BS. Even if you kill the frigs very quick, wasted time is wasted time.

I mean, yeah they can situationally perform very well, depending on the mission. But a Faction BS with matching dmgtype for the rats you deal with, a mwd and 3-4 damage modules ... it plainly outperforms anything cruiser sized.

For example the annoying 30k frigs ... My nightmare could pop 4 of them every cycle at like 80km. It could literally wipe out pockets before anything got in range to fire a single shot. My machariel was even more ridiculous, its just as quick as most T3, huge range(falloff), dps and can choose damage types. Tracking on that beast is also very good due to shipbonus and ACs innate tracking.

Though that being said, i could see a HAM tengu giving most BS a run for their money. And with most i mean those that don't have 7 ACs with falloff bonus and double damage bonus aswell as a tracking bonus, or those that sport the equivalent of 8 tachs with damage and tracking bonus.

All the turret based T3 and CS though? Nah. Just not seeing it.

With 2x T2 Rigors and Guided Missile Precision V, I had no problems at all killing Frigates with T1 HAMs. With the missile changes they're significantly more effective.

And using T2 Rage, I get close to 1000 DPS.  That's Mach/Nightmare class DPS, albeit only out to ~28km. If you want to call that "posing", go for it. The Tengu was a far quicker train than a Mach would have been for my mission alt.

I also used an "unprobeable" (I know they're not any more) Tengu on Malc to do Angel pirate missions and made an enormous profit on that. All those Gallente tags worked really nicely with all those Caldari LP my hi-sec alt was earning. Being able to sell 15-20 Dramiels and 10-15 Caldari Navy BCUs every week pays back the investment required for a couple of decently fitted Tengus very quickly. I still have 7 or 8 bill left from that period and I haven't really bothered to make ISK all this year. I sold my PVP-fitted pirate BS collection when the cash started running low and that paid for another 6 months of PvP :)

EDIT: PS there are such things as Javelin HAMs you know...

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Malcanis

Tried out my close-to-1000 DPS HAMgu last night. It has zero issues hitting Angel Elite frigates with T1 ammo, and it absolutely smashed through the BC & BS rats.

Whacking BS with T2 Rage is made much nicer by not getting the sig radius penalty, so you don't take as much DPS on approach, and effectivly none while orbiting.

 

The main change I found was that you basically have to plan 1 target group ahead, ie start moving towards the next group of ships before the current one you're hitting is finished in order to maintain your fire, compared to the old HML tengu which was basically burn to acceleration gate & orbit until all rats are dead. Make sure to reload at every opportunity when you're not firing.

 

Rigs on the Tengu are:

T1 Hydraulic Thruster

2x T2 Rigors

All in all, the experience was closer to flying a Machariel, with similar DPS. I recommend it.

LOL, does anyone still run L4s like I do, in a Battleship?  (Maelstrom in fact)  Probably not.

 

Try a Mach. They're much more effective (I mean a LOT) and also much less tedious to fly than a Mael. You don't need to bling-fit them at all. The only fancy goods I'd recommend are a Pith XL C-type booster and a RF Afterburner. Everything else you can just fit plain T2

[Machariel, EM-Missiony]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
[empty high slot]

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x7
Hammerhead II x5
Hammerhead II x4