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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Funcom Quarter 3 2012 report

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75 posts found
  Rawiz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/08
Posts: 472

11/25/12 3:46:57 PM#41
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Rawiz

Now perhaps you see I was actually replying to a guy trying to compare WoW cash shop to TSW. WoW items are account bound, they also spend millions in different donation programs. Yet they're hated.

They are not saints also.  You realize that Blizzard take 50% cut of what you spend on donation items?   Considering volume of sale and mount creation cost production cost are close to zero, so blizzard is using charity pet as huge revenue source.  Branding pet / mount as charity will bring great sales of this paritcular item and thus increase their sale.   

You would imagine that they would donate 100% or at least something like 95% of item revenue right?

 

So if you want to help it is much better to just wire some money to fundations, churches or other help organizations or maybe an needing facitility near place where you live.  That way you know that all money minus administraitve cost are used for charity and not just 50% of proft blizzard make after administrative and distributive cost.

 

I am not defending Funcom, as I don't care and I don't play TSW or other FC games.  

Just want to make a point that Blizzard is earning money directly on your charity.  It is keeping 50% of your donation for their shareholders.

Okay, just going to pass your first chapter there by saying, Blizz offered ALL PROFITS gained from buying their pet for Sandy victims. All you need to read is the first chapter, it was also a news topic in this very site.

http://wow.gameguyz.com/news/blizzard-donate-cinder-kitten-profits-superstorm-sandy-victims.html

Blizz obviously gave all their profits for that particular pet to people who need it. When did FC make such a charity drive? I might as well add, that this isn't  even close the first time Blizz does this.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

11/25/12 4:23:30 PM#42
Originally posted by Rawiz
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Rawiz

Now perhaps you see I was actually replying to a guy trying to compare WoW cash shop to TSW. WoW items are account bound, they also spend millions in different donation programs. Yet they're hated.

They are not saints also.  You realize that Blizzard take 50% cut of what you spend on donation items?   Considering volume of sale and mount creation cost production cost are close to zero, so blizzard is using charity pet as huge revenue source.  Branding pet / mount as charity will bring great sales of this paritcular item and thus increase their sale.   

You would imagine that they would donate 100% or at least something like 95% of item revenue right?

 

So if you want to help it is much better to just wire some money to fundations, churches or other help organizations or maybe an needing facitility near place where you live.  That way you know that all money minus administraitve cost are used for charity and not just 50% of proft blizzard make after administrative and distributive cost.

 

I am not defending Funcom, as I don't care and I don't play TSW or other FC games.  

Just want to make a point that Blizzard is earning money directly on your charity.  It is keeping 50% of your donation for their shareholders.

Okay, just going to pass your first chapter there by saying, Blizz offered ALL PROFITS gained from buying their pet for Sandy victims. All you need to read is the first chapter, it was also a news topic in this very site.

http://wow.gameguyz.com/news/blizzard-donate-cinder-kitten-profits-superstorm-sandy-victims.html

Blizz obviously gave all their profits for that particular pet to people who need it. When did FC make such a charity drive? I might as well add, that this isn't  even close the first time Blizz does this.

Pandaren Monk and some other was 50%.   Seem they changed that to 100% which is good, but it raise question if they did only after shitstorm 50% charity pets created.
Besides this is time offer only. After relatively certain peroid, this pet stop being charity but STILL is going to be sold without charity till end of WoW existence.

If they would take down pet from store after charity gathering ends then I would give them that.

STILL  this is consumers / donators money not Blizzard money.  Blizzard do not give moeny themself.  Real charity would be if Blizzard or any company would donate their own money instead just gathering and passing other people money.

 

 

FC - like I said I don't care about FC,they propaly never did charity pet or something similar, I don't know.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1031

11/25/12 4:25:28 PM#43

Oh, so NOW it's okay to have a cash shop and sub when you make it account bound and give to charity?  Any other qualities it can have that make it okay?  Other than it's WoW?  We'll just ask Funcom to do charity and make the items account bound, and the subs will just start flowing in.  Right?

Hypocrites.

 

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

11/25/12 5:09:16 PM#44
Originally posted by Ortwig

Oh, so NOW it's okay to have a cash shop and sub when you make it account bound and give to charity?  Any other qualities it can have that make it okay?  Other than it's WoW?  We'll just ask Funcom to do charity and make the items account bound, and the subs will just start flowing in.  Right?

Hypocrites.

 

Sure it is not okay. 

I prefer to not have cash shop and support charity financially or otherwise of my choosing in real-life.

  BlueLantern

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 107

11/25/12 5:13:34 PM#45
i wonder how low the subs will dip by christmas.


  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1031

11/25/12 5:32:16 PM#46
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Ortwig

Oh, so NOW it's okay to have a cash shop and sub when you make it account bound and give to charity?  Any other qualities it can have that make it okay?  Other than it's WoW?  We'll just ask Funcom to do charity and make the items account bound, and the subs will just start flowing in.  Right?

Hypocrites.

 

Sure it is not okay. 

I prefer to not have cash shop and support charity financially or otherwise of my choosing in real-life.

That's fine -- lots of excuses being made up above about how WoW's shop is okay, but TSW's is not.  I find the utter vindicitiveness to a Funcom shop and not a WoW shop to be completely hypocritical, however.

  GR3NDEL

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/12
Posts: 103

11/26/12 10:58:21 AM#47

So, the long-awaited Q3 report has been released.  I have read it, both the report itself and the presentation and here's what I take away from it:

 

CASHFLOW POSITIVE

 

It's all over the report.  TSW is making money for Funcom.  Indeed, all three MMOs listed in the report (TSW, AoC and AO) are making money for Funcom - Q3's numbers appear to be better than Q2's numbers, and certainly they are much better than Q3 2011.

 

I am content.

  BlueLantern

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 107

11/26/12 11:35:07 AM#48
and they'll be negative in 2013, right in the report. not to mention they'll have only 10k subs by february. very content indeed.


  Randayn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 606

11/26/12 12:39:32 PM#49

Gotta love the FC hate in this forum.  I think they'll be fine.  Always have been and have always made niche MMORPG's that don't appeal to average "pop" MMORPG players.

As for Charity...they can do what they want with their money.  So can Blizzard...just cuz they donate to charity doesn't make them saints...it's most likely posturing so that they can get more subs from the chronically altruistic.

I support companies cuz they are good at what they do, not cuz they donate to charity.

  GR3NDEL

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/12
Posts: 103

11/26/12 3:12:01 PM#50
Originally posted by Randayn

Gotta love the FC hate in this forum.  I think they'll be fine.  Always have been and have always made niche MMORPG's that don't appeal to average "pop" MMORPG players.

As for Charity...they can do what they want with their money.  So can Blizzard...just cuz they donate to charity doesn't make them saints...it's most likely posturing so that they can get more subs from the chronically altruistic.

I support companies cuz they are good at what they do, not cuz they donate to charity.

I'm trying to see a connection between Funcom's 3rd quarter report and Blizzard's charity work...

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/26/12 3:39:54 PM#51
Originally posted by GR3NDEL

So, the long-awaited Q3 report has been released.  I have read it, both the report itself and the presentation and here's what I take away from it:

 

CASHFLOW POSITIVE

 

It's all over the report.  TSW is making money for Funcom.  Indeed, all three MMOs listed in the report (TSW, AoC and AO) are making money for Funcom - Q3's numbers appear to be better than Q2's numbers, and certainly they are much better than Q3 2011.

 

I am content.

Im not sure you read that correctly. They reported a cash flow positive compared to the same quarter last year, which is obvious when you take into account they released a new game this quarter. According to this the cash flow positive is not happening anytime soon:

 

"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."

"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."

 

They also said:

 

"As part of the process of optimizing the revenue for the game, the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."

"A refined and updated business model has been under Private and Confidential - Intended solely for use by recipient 13 development in 3Q"

Which means, like it or not they are changing the business model. Probably F2P, B2P or maybe something we haven't seen before.

 

And:

 

"The development of The Secret World is now almost fully handled by the studio in Montreal"

As far as I know the initial/core development was not in Montreal, seems like they are moving on...

 

At least they acknknowledge they released in a bad timeframe:

 

"Guild Wars 2 and Mists of Pandaria, the latest expansion pack to World of Warcraft, have dominated the market for the last months, thus impacting sales of The Secret World. World of Warcraft is continuing to hold a strong position in the market in spite of the increased competition"

 


  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6956

11/26/12 3:50:15 PM#52
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

 

"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."

 

 

Although TSW is making money, the report showed debt.  It does not look like they will be able to pay that debt by the end of 2013. 

 

There's no question that sales have been a bismal and the whole thing has been disappointing, but money is being made, millions. The need for the company to get out of debt will push them to make moves to increase revenue. 

 

The question is, do they think that f2p will help them increase revenue and help get the company out of debt. Pretty iffy at this point if you ask me.

Elder Scrolls Online vs Wildstar Mass PvP you decide.

  GR3NDEL

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/12
Posts: 103

11/26/12 3:52:38 PM#53
Originally posted by Kuppa
 
Im not sure you read that correctly.

No, I read the report correctly.  My point is this - the Funcom haters have been pointing to the Q3 report to show that TSW was 'dying' and Funcom was 'dying' - or that TSW's F2P switch was 'imminent' - none of which has been borne out by this report.   

Yes, I am still content.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/26/12 3:57:49 PM#54
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

 

"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."

 

 

Although TSW is making money, the report showed debt.  It does not look like they will be able to pay that debt by the end of 2013. 

 

There's no question that sales have been a bismal and the whole thing has been disappointing, but money is being made, millions. The need for the company to get out of debt will push them to make moves to increase revenue. 

 

The question is, do they think that f2p will help them increase revenue and help get the company out of debt. Pretty iffy at this point if you ask me.

Well yes, they are making money. Just not enough, they spend more money than what they make. You just don't get rid of spending, they basically have a project that is not making the amount of money they need it to make compared to the amount of cost. Thats why they are reducing cost and changing the business model:

 

"Due to lower sales of The Secret World than expected, the Company initiated significant cost-cut measures...."

"...the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."


  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/26/12 4:01:40 PM#55
Originally posted by GR3NDEL
Originally posted by Kuppa
 
Im not sure you read that correctly.

No, I read the report correctly.  My point is this - the Funcom haters have been pointing to the Q3 report to show that TSW was 'dying' and Funcom was 'dying' - or that TSW's F2P switch was 'imminent' - none of which has been borne out by this report.   

Yes, I am still content.

Did you not read my post entirely??

 

 

"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."

"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."

"As part of the process of optimizing the revenue for the game, the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."

"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q"


  GR3NDEL

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/12
Posts: 103

11/26/12 4:19:13 PM#56
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by GR3NDEL
Originally posted by Kuppa
 
Im not sure you read that correctly.

No, I read the report correctly.  My point is this - the Funcom haters have been pointing to the Q3 report to show that TSW was 'dying' and Funcom was 'dying' - or that TSW's F2P switch was 'imminent' - none of which has been borne out by this report.   

Yes, I am still content.

Did you not read my post entirely(or the report for that matter)??

 

 

"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."

"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."

"As part of the process of optimizing the revenue for the game, the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."

"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q"

Yes Kuppa (as I said before), I read your bullet points the first time - and yes, I read the report as well.

 

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/26/12 4:21:26 PM#57
Originally posted by GR3NDEL
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by GR3NDEL
Originally posted by Kuppa
 
Im not sure you read that correctly.

No, I read the report correctly.  My point is this - the Funcom haters have been pointing to the Q3 report to show that TSW was 'dying' and Funcom was 'dying' - or that TSW's F2P switch was 'imminent' - none of which has been borne out by this report.   

Yes, I am still content.

Did you not read my post entirely(or the report for that matter)??

 

 

"..the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."

"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."

"As part of the process of optimizing the revenue for the game, the Company is currently working on updating and refining the business model."

"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q"

Yes Kuppa (as I said before), I read your bullet points the first time - and yes, I read the report as well.

 

So why do you think the game is doing well financially, or FC for that matter. And how do you think they will not go F2P or some other business model? I'm just trying to figure out if I missed something myself because this report seems pretty obviously grim.


  JKwervo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 140

11/26/12 4:34:15 PM#58
Not to mention the persistent rumors about funcom being sold.
  GR3NDEL

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/12
Posts: 103

11/26/12 4:59:54 PM#59
Originally posted by Kuppa

So why do you think the game is doing well financially, or FC for that matter. And how do you think they will not go F2P or some other business model? I'm just trying to figure out if I missed something myself because this report seems pretty obviously grim.

The report is no bed of roses, but neither is it 'obviously grim' except to those who wish to view it so.

 

According to the report, we have these hard numbers to review:

Quarterly revenues (TUSD):

3Q 2011:  4,766

2Q 2012: 2,557

3Q 2012: 10,963

EBITDA (TUSD):

3Q 2011: -716

2Q 2012: -9,850

3Q 2012: 2,634

These revanue numbers are positive - in fact, they show significant leaps between Q2 and Q3.  From the report, this revanue increase is due mainly  to TSW and AoC.   These are hard and fast numbers, not open to speculation or 'well these numbers don't actually mean what they seem to mean'.

 

Whether those numbers as a percentage of growth is sustainable is another question altogether, but nonetheless, these are positive numbers.

 

Let's also look at some of the quotes that are floating around, and make sure they are being used in their entirety, instead of being selectively quoted.

 

"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q.  The refined and updated business model will include new and increased PR and marketing initiatives."

 

"Due to lower sales of The Secret World than expected, the Company initiated significant cost-cut measures. Amongst other factors, such as the development of a LEGO game, based on the Minifigures line, the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."

 

"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."

 

While a F2P conversion is always possible, until the consulting group finishes their analysis there's nothing further to be gained by rampant speculation about it.

 

The end result as things stand right now?  Cashflow.  Positive.

 

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/26/12 5:20:09 PM#60
Originally posted by GR3NDEL
Originally posted by Kuppa

So why do you think the game is doing well financially, or FC for that matter. And how do you think they will not go F2P or some other business model? I'm just trying to figure out if I missed something myself because this report seems pretty obviously grim.

The report is no bed of roses, but neither is it 'obviously grim' except to those who wish to view it so.

 

According to the report, we have these hard numbers to review:

Quarterly revenues (TUSD):

3Q 2011:  4,766

2Q 2012: 2,557

3Q 2012: 10,963

EBITDA (TUSD):

3Q 2011: -716

2Q 2012: -9,850

3Q 2012: 2,634

These revanue numbers are positive - in fact, they show significant leaps between Q2 and Q3.  From the report, this revanue increase is due mainly  to TSW and AoC.   These are hard and fast numbers, not open to speculation or 'well these numbers don't actually mean what they seem to mean'.

 

Whether those numbers as a percentage of growth is sustainable is another question altogether, but nonetheless, these are positive numbers.

 

Let's also look at some of the quotes that are floating around, and make sure they are being used in their entirety, instead of being selectively quoted.

 

"A refined and updated business model has been under development in 3Q.  The refined and updated business model will include new and increased PR and marketing initiatives."

 

"Due to lower sales of The Secret World than expected, the Company initiated significant cost-cut measures. Amongst other factors, such as the development of a LEGO game, based on the Minifigures line, the goal of bringing the Company cash flow positive may not be achieved during 2013."

 

"The Company expects revenues for 4Q 2012 to be lower than in 3Q 2012 due to lower sales of The Secret World."

 

While a F2P conversion is always possible, until the consulting group finishes their analysis there's nothing further to be gained by rampant speculation about it.

 

The end result as things stand right now?  Cashflow.  Positive.

 

Yes, they will have positive numbers compared to a quarter with no new game releases this is pretty easy to understand but VERY naive to think that's the whole story. Even FC acknowledges that this will drop in the next quarter and will likely continue to drop in 2013. 

In fact the report is not only about how things are doing at this very moment, which it is positive cashflow, but it also projects to how things will be, which is not positive cashflow. Why do you ignore those?

Not sure what you added by adding some other text for some of the quotes, they still paint the same grim picture.

 


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