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EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » Revival of the space sim genre - tougher times for EvE incoming?

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63 posts found
  Rayshe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

11/24/12 1:05:28 AM#21

EVE is the last game i would ever worry about, Those that are there are in for the long hall.  I have a few EVE players in my TSW guild and they have basically told me that all it would take to bring them back in is a interesting expansion.

 

Honestly i don't think the space sim will get very far. This Genre is very Fantasy oriented with Sci Fi being a Niche of it. I'm not saying its bad i think Niche is the way to go until WoW closes its doors. Personally i think WoD if done correctly is gonna be the biggest pull, Dark Fantasy isn't done much in this Genre, And when it is done it usually isnt done well. The only other Dark Fantasy that ive played that i can say i enjoy is TSW, but they are not sandbox and for the themepark they have the unfair advantage of Tornquist.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3201

"A very special kind of stupidity"

11/25/12 2:52:50 AM#22

The problem that those games will face is that

(1) EVE will have a 12-13 year post launch development headstart when those new games launch. That's 12 years worth (OK 10.5 years if we discount the :18 months: period!) of extra content and polish, equating to at least a couple of hundred million dollars worth of work. There really are just a hell of a lot of different things to do in EVE, and that's a hell of a hill for a directly competing game to climb.

(2) As mentioned, a lot of people have a lot of time invested in EVE, plus significant game assets, and the PLEX system makes it easy to come back and play for free for a while if you had some ISK when you quit. "NEVER sell your main" isn't an EVE meme for no reason. I've known at least 3 or 4 game friends who've 'quit EVE', sold off their characters, and then come back a year or two later, bitterly regretting that sale.

(3) The established metagame has a way of getting its hooks into people, and even players who have "quit" seem unable to stop reading (and posting) about EVE. Like the Hotel California, you might check out but you'll never leave - after you've been playing a couple of years, you're statistically unlikely to ever permanently leave, merely taking breaks. For all people complain about space-asshettery, those player driven conflicts do generate content that people really care about in a primal, subconscious lizard-brain kind of way.

I'm not saying that none of those games will succeed, I'm just saying that they'll have to be something incredibly and unexpectedly outstanding to "kill" EVE, and even then it won't be an overnight thing; CCP will have time to react. EVE hasn't survived this long against repeated challengers for no reason.

 

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3201

"A very special kind of stupidity"

11/25/12 2:54:21 AM#23
In fact, thinking about it, a revival of the space-sim genre would probably benefit EVE more than harm it.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4524

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

11/25/12 2:56:49 AM#24

competition is good. it's what drives progress.

 

only the best survive.

  hfztt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 601

11/25/12 2:57:31 AM#25

Unless one of these games are really good, like original X-Com or StarCraft good, I doubt they will win in the long run over a game that has had me returning again and again for nearly 10 years now.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

11/25/12 6:22:03 AM#26
Originally posted by Robokapp

competition is good. it's what drives progress.

 

only the best survive.

Actually its survival of the fittest, not the best.

For a MMO to be fit it has to be able to survive bad developement decisions like for example WiS. EvE took a wrong turn there(because it took away to many resources from the core game), and it damaged the game... but CCP was able to correct the decision because they have an established playerbase(which isn't the same as a fanbase) and EvE already being in the black.

If a new game releases with a error in judgement, it will just go the way Warhammer, AoC or SWToR went. You won't have the time and funds to correct your mistake because the year it takes would be plenty of time for a failure cascade and your investors withdrawing support.

EvE can afford to innovate because it can afford to go wrong, and innovation is what keeps me coming back to the game.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

3/15/13 5:04:22 AM#27

with Star Citizen and Elite having LOTS of avatar centric gameplay announced (FPS style ship capturing, walking on stations and planets..) I really hope that EvE is getting this too. They need to integrate Dust 514 somehow into the PC client and expand on that, that would be awesome.

I really want to walk around in my ships, get out of the airlock in a space suit and run around on an asteroid while my ship is mining resources :))

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Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
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  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1534

3/15/13 5:18:27 AM#28

Played EVE since launch and I still love it, although some aspects made me rethink all this like:

-devs favoritism towards certain alliances because they are either member of those alliances themselves or former members hired by CCP.
-RMT trade by alliance leaders and devs doing nothing about it because they are RL friends/have very god friendships to those leaders.
-LOTS of options offered to counter the above complaint and there's NOTHING done about it or on the roadmap.
-EVE is a numbers game, I happen to be in the alliances that can win fights at 1:10 odds because of the skill, but basicly EVE is a numbers game.


If there is a game LIKE EVE, sandbox, vast universe and a healthy playerbase I would certainly try it for sure.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  calranthe

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/05
Posts: 361

3/15/13 5:57:04 AM#29

EVE is EVE while most eve players play other mmo games for a bit of fun nothing out there has ever come close to what eve does, yes it is a harsh game and nearly 10 years after I first tried the game I still get a high from jumping through a gate in 0.0 not knowing what is on the other side.

When you come out on the other side of the gate and 30+ guys are waiting for you all the lessons learnt the adrenalin kicks in, judging distances calculating to see if a celestial is within your alignment or could I make it back to the gate, that 30 seconds before you decloak can be the longest seconds of your life exce[t for the time it takes for your ship to align and kick into warp.

1000+ people on either side of a gate multiple fleets, cynos ready for support the FCs in command channel and on the line deciding whether to jump in or force the oponent to make a move, capitals fueled and ready, every damn member listening on mumble for the J word.

Eve has ruined pvp for me in any other game because of the lack of consequence and meaning woohoo so what if I can gain rank or points if engage in combat in eve my ship, my money is on the line so my skills have to be up to par.

CCP is not perfect eve can be a "bad game" but those moments when 3200 people clash in a system or when you go off in a rifter solo it is beyond words.

this week I played some dead space 3, TSW and POE when star citizen comes out I will get it just like when the new X game comes out but none of them take away or replace EVE.

 

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3201

"A very special kind of stupidity"

3/16/13 4:42:35 AM#30

If these news games spur CCP to get off their asses and put some avatar based gameplay into EVE, then so much the better.

But I stand by my prediction that a larger field of SF-themed online games will benefit EVE.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2756

3/16/13 6:02:19 AM#31
Originally posted by Malcanis

If these news games spur CCP to get off their asses and put some avatar based gameplay into EVE, then so much the better.

But I stand by my prediction that a larger field of SF-themed online games will benefit EVE.

And I agree.

 

Because it will make it very obvious that EVE is a game like no other.

 

None of the new games will have remotely close to the quantity or diversity of content that EVE has. And what is the number one killer of MMO's these days ? Lack of content. CCP have been adding features to EVE constantly since it launched. They have 10+ years of player metrics to tell them what their players like doing and what they don't. They have had 10 years of experience with tuning netcode, client and server performance.

 

In many ways, EVE is one of the last "old-skool" MMO's in the western market, if not the last. It is not casual friendly. It does not try to appeal to a wide spectrum of players. It is unashamedly group-centric. It is sandbox and it is brutal. The basic gameplay formula has not changed much since it launched in 2003. Most people either love it or hate it.

 

The new games will draw the vast majority of their playerbase from the millions of people that don't like EVE. That doesn't hurt EVE in the slightest. If CCP wanted to increase their sub revenue by changing the game to draw in more players, they would have done that years ago. But they were wise enough not to lose their focus on providing a game that appeals to a very specific niche. They never tried to chase the numbers.

 

How many of the new games are going to launch with great fanfare and hype and "beta key" promotions on MMORPG and offering $50 Founder Packs ?

How many of them will design their gameplay around  the fact that they HAVE TO promote Cash Shop sales ? 

How many of them will fall prey to "indie developer syndrome", and launch a half-completed game with promises of great things to come if the players will just support them for the next few years ?

How many of them will be able to survive with 50K or 60K dedicated players during their first year or two (as EVE did) ?

  f1seb

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/06
Posts: 192

3/18/13 9:04:15 PM#32

The reason why I started to play Eve and continue to play it is because there isn't in my eyes a good enough online space sim game.  I drooled over all the little features and tidbits that was trickling down to us about Jumgate Evolution, Black Prohpecy had some nice graphics and ship control, unfortunately as a lobby game, it wasn't much of a space sim. 

Tried Star Trek Online, not my thing. 

Sure there's a online mod for Freelancer, but it looks dated and I'd like to use a bit more than 5% of my computers capability.  I  play X3 games, but they're single player.......and after a while shooting the AI isn't as fun.

So now here's the resurgence in the genre with Star citizen and Elite Dangerous possibly being "that" game.  I'm excited and if either of those 2 games become amazing, I'll be dropping EVE and never looking back.  Alghout I can see that being a problem for veterans of the game, who have so much time invested in this game and their high accumulation of skillpoints it would probably be hard for them to leave it.

 

I expect a lot of the newer players leaving EVE since they don't have much to lose.  But I'm sure the majority of the vets will stay no matter how good the other space sims are.

  Attend4455

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

3/19/13 4:47:01 PM#33
Originally posted by free2play

If they are small universe games like STO they won't touch EVE. If they are small Universe games with FFA PvP they won't be around long enough to matter.

If they focus exclusively on the pew pew they will dry up.

While the Pee Vee Pee crowd of EVE fancy themselves the only thing that matters, EVE is more. Thousands of people log in to Jita every day and never leave Jita. Thousands log in docked up in a Mackinaw and never undock in anything else.

EVE is huge. It is multi profession. Slapping together a space game isn't going to cut EVE down. Much like Blizzard and WoW the only thing that can kill EVE is CCP and EVE. Anyone who sees EVE and thinks they want a piece, don't look at the 400K playing, look at the 2 million who quit.

underlined -- that's a pretty good point.

But to the OP, we''ll have to see what is vapourware and what actually emerges (in several years time)

 

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  Baitness

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/22/06
Posts: 148

3/19/13 5:09:23 PM#34
The only thing the awesome revival of space sim is going to do is up interest in EVE.  That is how it makes me feel anyways.  When I hear about the awesome games coming up I am like "damn that is sweet, lets go play eve."
  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3201

"A very special kind of stupidity"

3/20/13 6:28:01 AM#35
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
 

How many of them will fall prey to "indie developer syndrome", and launch a half-completed game with promises of great things to come if the players will just support them for the next few years ?

How many of them will be able to survive with 50K or 60K dedicated players during their first year or two (as EVE did) ?

 

That's a pretty good point actually - would the MMO scene allow a new MMO the chance to develop into an "AAA" game in the way EVE did? I could make a case for EVE having what was effectively an 8 or 9 year live paid beta, and there's no denying that CCP benefitted tremendously from that.

On the other hand, there are new funding and publishing options - Kickstarter and Steam give opportunities to indie devs that CCP would have sold their souls for back in 2003.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

3/20/13 6:37:16 AM#36
i dont thik eve addicts, including me, will care at any of this or any other space mmo game.
  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

3/20/13 6:48:41 AM#37

About time we get something as deep as EvE, plus Joystick Action combat

 

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


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The Return of ELITE !

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4071

3/20/13 6:57:32 AM#38
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Anyone else noticed that the multiplayer space sim genre is getting a LOT more attention lately?

A bunch of interesting new titles in development, plus some rumored ones, most of them are massive multiplayer games.

I know EvE combat is different to the action combat of upcoming titles, but which effect will the new competition have on EvE?

Will CCP try to bring in long promised big new features like Walking in Stations? New gameplay aspects maybe? New incentives to play?

 the upcoming competition (only partially confirmed)

Star Citizen - not an mmo

Elite Dangerous - not an mmo

Star of Barathrum - cant really find any info about this pretty sure its not an mmo

TOR SSSP Update/Expansion - really... really..?

Infinity - been in development forever.. will it ever happen? who knows?

Starlight Inception - not an MMO

...

So i dont see any of those really doing anything to EVE..

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  Amegashie

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/06
Posts: 279

3/22/13 5:46:21 PM#39
Originally posted by dreamsofwar
Eve is the WoW of the space genre in terms of it being the largest and most polished and most complete game in its field. New space sims would have to offer something very special to give Eve a tough time.

Easy enough: They just need to have action oriented space combat with pretty graphics and big f'in lazerz. PvE in Eve is horrendous.

 

Let's wait and see how many of the games mentioned make it past release and in what state they are in then before jumping on the "Omgomgomg Eve is DYINGGG !!11" train though.

  Yalexy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1020

3/22/13 6:37:44 PM#40

EvE is not only about spaceships and SciFi and that's the reason why no spacesim will harm the game.

The core-features of EvE are the economy and the politics. These two features make EvE into a living game-world. Without them there wouldn't be any battles between alliances/corps to start with.

No other MMO so far has captured these features the way EvE did, and that's why EvE is the only MMO currently available for people who are interested in a 100% player-driven game-world.

Additionally. The scale of the EvE-battles can't be done with Freelancer-style twitch-controls, and that's another reason, why EvE doens't have to fear anything from any of the upcoming space-sims, as these game-worlds will feel tiny in comparison.

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