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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Since You're Complaining About F2P Restrictions....

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148 posts found
  JRRNeiklot

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/11
Posts: 102

11/22/12 7:56:21 PM#41
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by JRRNeiklot
Silly us, thinking free to play meant free to play.

"Free to play" is not the same as "Everything for nothing."

From the Oxford online dictionary: 

 

1 not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.

3 not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations

4 [predic.] (free of/from) not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)

remove something undesirable or restrictive from

adverb

1 without cost or payment

 

Verb

release from captivity, confinement, or slavery

release from physical obstruction, restraint, or entanglement

 

 

 

SWTOR meets none of the abbove criteria.  Ergo, it is not free to play.  I've played demos that were less restrictive.  The game is completely unplayable in the current form.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10633

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

11/22/12 8:47:17 PM#42


Originally posted by JRRNeiklot

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by JRRNeiklot Silly us, thinking free to play meant free to play.
"Free to play" is not the same as "Everything for nothing."
From the Oxford online dictionary: 

 

1 not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.

3 not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations

4 [predic.] (free of/from) not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)

remove something undesirable or restrictive from adverb 1 without cost or payment   Verbrelease from captivity, confinement, or slavery

release from physical obstruction, restraint, or entanglement

SWTOR meets none of the abbove criteria.  Ergo, it is not free to play.  I've played demos that were less restrictive.  The game is completely unplayable in the current form.




The game is not unplayable in its current form. I just played it tonight. I also played for free. Which makes it free to play.

Would you like some cheese?

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  TheOctagon

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/12/11
Posts: 135

11/23/12 12:09:08 AM#43

As a subscriber for over a year now, here it is in a nutshell, SWTOR went to F2P way before they thought it would because the bottom dropped out of their subs due to lack of endgame content and the space battles which, you have to admit, are basically ships on rails. If this (F2P) fails, the game fails. Simple as that. The game was in trouble obviously, and once the F2P people are gone, so's the game, as EA takes their bottom line very seriously.

They would have been better off giving a F2P person full access to level 25 or so, then restricted them, giving them a taste for the game, and maybe a hook if they got into it. As it is now, they'll play till maaaybe 20 or so, then the grind with reduced XP will begin to tell. By then they'll also have their quickbars pretty much full and have to start cutting powers to make the more important ones fit. The locked forums is totally rediculous, or perhaps they were worried about the server shutting down from the enormous volume of posts in the support section. I feel bad for the F2P people as I sprint by, another restriction that I'm sure those players love. And how is a F2P person supposed to learn about crafting when the full skillset is disabled? 1 or 2 skills? They have to have an interest in the game to continue playing it. These are basics in any decent F2P model.

You want people to log in and have a GOOD time, not a BAD time. F2P people should have unrestricted access to WZs so the subbers can feel superior blasting the blue equipped freebies with their uber purples. This makes the subbers happy, which makes them spend more money on pink and purple lightsabers. Meanwhile, the F2P people are happy just being able to play in a WZ whether its win or lose.

The fanbois can scream the games all fine and jim dandy, but the real players, the ones here on earth, know that EA and Bioware better get their heads out of their (_o_) or their going to lose a game that should have been epic....

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4651

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

11/23/12 12:11:34 AM#44
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by JRRNeiklot

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by JRRNeiklot Silly us, thinking free to play meant free to play.
"Free to play" is not the same as "Everything for nothing."
From the Oxford online dictionary: 

 

 

1 not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.

3 not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations

4 [predic.] (free of/from) not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)

remove something undesirable or restrictive from adverb 1 without cost or payment   Verbrelease from captivity, confinement, or slavery

release from physical obstruction, restraint, or entanglement

SWTOR meets none of the abbove criteria.  Ergo, it is not free to play.  I've played demos that were less restrictive.  The game is completely unplayable in the current form.




The game is not unplayable in its current form. I just played it tonight. I also played for free. Which makes it free to play.

Would you like some cheese?

 

did you play THE GAME or parts of the game for free?

 

I mean WoW's free to play too. I played for free tonight on my level 11 paladin.

  DSWBeef

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 773

11/23/12 1:20:38 AM#45

I would do it exactly how aion did it.

 

What are the benefits of Truly Free?

The Aion Truly Free experience combines the best parts of the
Lineage 2: Goddess of Destruction™ Truly Free model with numerous enhancements.

Here are some of the key features of Aion Truly Free:

  • No subscription fee. Play for free!
  • No account restrictions. Visit any zone, chat in any channel, sell any amount of stuff on the trade broker—nothing is off limits!
  • Robust countermeasures to combat game abuse. We're dedicating a ton of resources to preventing account theft, botting, and real money trading.
  • No hassles. Create your account, download the game, and play!
  • No harassment. Don't worry, we won't hound you with constant offers or promotions.
  • A lot of great stuff we'll reveal more about leading up to launch!
Either remove the sub or give subs the same 500 CC a month plus unique title, mount, priority queue, special forum title, unique modable armor and weapons every month. And more fluff stuff.
 
Aions F2P model is very good. I can play the WHOLE GAME w/o paying a penny. There store offers boosts, mounts, costumes, weapon skins, housing stuff, and pets. People want to look different so they wouldnt hesitate to buy cosmetic stuff.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, World of Warcraft, and Diablo 3
Waiting on: Archeage, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  User Deleted
11/23/12 2:00:56 AM#46
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by JRRNeiklot

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by JRRNeiklot Silly us, thinking free to play meant free to play.
"Free to play" is not the same as "Everything for nothing."
From the Oxford online dictionary: 

 

 

1 not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.

3 not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations

4 [predic.] (free of/from) not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)

remove something undesirable or restrictive from adverb 1 without cost or payment   Verbrelease from captivity, confinement, or slavery

release from physical obstruction, restraint, or entanglement

SWTOR meets none of the abbove criteria.  Ergo, it is not free to play.  I've played demos that were less restrictive.  The game is completely unplayable in the current form.




The game is not unplayable in its current form. I just played it tonight. I also played for free. Which makes it free to play.

Would you like some cheese?

 

did you play THE GAME or parts of the game for free?

 

I mean WoW's free to play too. I played for free tonight on my level 11 paladin.

Yah, "logic" of some people is really fail.

By that persons "logic" every game that ever released free trial or demo is free to play.

Take Dragon Age 2 demo as an example: you get 1 fight for free. Now he can claim the game is "free 2 play" because he played it yesterday for free.

Fail is fail, SWTOR IS NOT F2P, its a crappy generic free trial.

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1299

11/23/12 2:23:34 AM#47
Originally posted by nate1980

I'm asking this, because people keep complaining about the restrictions. What did people expect, a free ride until they got tired of the game? To not spend any money in the near future, possibly for over a month? To only be restricted in ways that people don't mind? If players don't mind the restrictions, then they'd be less likely to pony over the dough.

You see, I don't care that much about the money involved. If I thought I'd play TOR for over 5 hours a month, I'd sub. However, I don't think so and TOR's F2P is simply not worth my time. It's like TOR P2P, except more annoying. A more annoying version of a mediocre game is just bad and I don't want to play a bad game when I can play a good game like GW2 or Firefall or TSW.

A restrictive product has to be very good for people to play it. TOR is not.

  cheyane

Elite Member

Joined: 7/17/09
Posts: 2390

11/23/12 3:03:50 AM#48
Hopefully for the sake of the game they ease up on the restrictions. Enjoying seeing a lot of people playing though and general chat is also like it was at the launch of the game.

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  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16683

11/23/12 3:09:43 AM#49

I think the restrictions to the multiplayer parts is a huge misstake, it was already the weakest part of the game and further restrictions is really dangerous.

The reason we play MMOs (at least most of us) is to play with other people, and TOR needs more multiplayer content, not to have fewer players play what they already have.

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5556

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

11/23/12 3:11:26 AM#50
Originally posted by nate1980

..

If I was Bioware, I would have rationed off the whole draw of the game and made F2P players pay to access it in bits and pieces. The main draw is the single player class stories. If you have to pay money to unlock each Chapter per character, then you'd accomplish two things. Get rid of the F2P players that don't ever intend to pay a dime, because they're only playing to finish off all the class stories. The second is to profit off your best feature. Sort of like unlocking content packs in DDO.

not sure which way would shut down Swtor faster, this way or keeping the subscription only.

a good example here. PWE has many full f2p mmos, and still they make more money on a single game than swtor ever did since launch. And dont say p2w because taht only affects PvPers and the majority are PvEers who also buy fluff only. I never payed more than perhaps $80 bucks in a couple years of fun and challenging gameplay as a PvEer.

EAWARE needs to be smarter with their Freemium model. Right now they almost look like if they wanted retribution with that model... [resub, or have nightmares with our cash shop]

the point is, with a decent model and respect for the playerbase that is willing to support them via sub or cash shop, the game will florish. some freemiums right now have some annoying restrictions but not as insulting as Swtors one for many players

its my opinion only, and a comment based on my experience with some freemiums and f2p

For me, i only have 4 problems with their cash shop:

1) make the 2 character creation limit server specific, not account wide.

2) take away every every form of instanced pvp from my game, but let me do dungeons and raids freely.

3) raise the ridiculous credit cap, which is too low and cant even legacy stuff

4) gimmie my hotbars.

im ok with the rest of the unlocks and i would pay to unlock them (IF those 4 i mentioned ever get addressed or adjusted to reflect less greed and more care towars both their game and players)....otherwise ill just move to the next game.

 

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Kniknax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/01/05
Posts: 559

11/23/12 3:16:36 AM#51
Originally posted by kadepsyson

Hey I really like this game and really want to play it.  I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea.  I prefer free to play games for this reason.

 

Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.

Well, Guild Wars 2 manages it.

"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright

  waveslayer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/07/03
Posts: 350

11/23/12 3:30:45 AM#52

Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.

It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not  have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax. 

Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.

Godz of War I call Thee

  superniceguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2277

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

11/23/12 4:18:28 AM#53
Originally posted by waveslayer

Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.

It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not  have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax. 

Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.

The fact you are subscribing proves that the restrictiveness forces you to sub. If you were playing the game for free and not subbing, then your comments would have more merit. Other MMOs are more playable in F2P including GW2, and you do not need to spend anything on that either.

Subbing once or twice is worth it, but after that, it gets too repetitive and boring. For the first char you can not get enough of the game, and maybe the 2nd, as long as it is the opposite faction, but doing another then gets repetitive as 90% of the content is the same, and the monthly fee starts to become a burden.

For new players the F2P thing may work, but for returning players it does not. As a returning player I would like to be able to play casually like once a week to go through the rest of the professions. For a start they ask you to sub to get your Cartel Coins for CE if bought and any subs before Aug 1st, which I find to be stupid, as those who quit, have no intentions on subbing, and without any CC gives not much incentive to bother as game as not been enhanced the entire time. Also as most people would have created 2 chars already, then they can not create any more, and can not even buy more .... yet

SWTOR is less playable in F2P than other F2P games, and as can not even buy more char slots makes it totally unplayable.

F2P is not meant to make game completely free, but playable enough so can spend very little on it and very casually with P2P for people who want to play the game virtually 24/7, SWTORs F2P does not.

When they allow more char slots to be purchased I will then be able to play SWTOR.

I would even accept a monthly weekend fee for about $5 - Play the game just on Sat and Sun. The more subbing options the better, with SWTORs F2P, it is basically sub or quit.

  User Deleted
11/23/12 5:40:21 AM#54
Originally posted by waveslayer

Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.

It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not  have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax. 

Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.

Many people also paid 60$ (or much more) for SWTOR box. + sub if/when they wanted to play.

And you didnt quite make it as F2P, did you?

  maji

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1907

11/23/12 5:46:07 AM#55
Fallen Earth got a great F2P model. You can do about everything you can do with a paid account, you just get 25% less XP, take a bit longer for crafting, and some other "takes a bit longer" things. But you can do the same stuff as a paid account, and have all game features available.

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16683

11/23/12 5:54:56 AM#56
Originally posted by rojo6934

not sure which way would shut down Swtor faster, this way or keeping the subscription only.

a good example here. PWE has many full f2p mmos, and still they make more money on a single game than swtor ever did since launch. And dont say p2w because taht only affects PvPers and the majority are PvEers who also buy fluff only. I never payed more than perhaps $80 bucks in a couple years of fun and challenging gameplay as a PvEer.

EAWARE needs to be smarter with their Freemium model. Right now they almost look like if they wanted retribution with that model... [resub, or have nightmares with our cash shop]

the point is, with a decent model and respect for the playerbase that is willing to support them via sub or cash shop, the game will florish. some freemiums right now have some annoying restrictions but not as insulting as Swtors one for many players

its my opinion only, and a comment based on my experience with some freemiums and f2p

For me, i only have 4 problems with their cash shop:

1) make the 2 character creation limit server specific, not account wide.

2) take away every every form of instanced pvp from my game, but let me do dungeons and raids freely.

3) raise the ridiculous credit cap, which is too low and cant even legacy stuff

4) gimmie my hotbars.

im ok with the rest of the unlocks and i would pay to unlock them (IF those 4 i mentioned ever get addressed or adjusted to reflect less greed and more care towars both their game and players)....otherwise ill just move to the next game.

The problem with that theory is that you assume that the reason TOR did so badly was the payment model. Rift used the same and it have done pretty fine

The game have other problems and changing how people choose to pay for it wont help unless they fix the problem that made people play it a few weeks and then quit.

Sure, this payment model isnt good, particularly limiting the multiplayer access but it seems like a hail Mary pass from EA instead of actually spending all the money they need to make the game more fun long term.

Personally I think limiting people to 2 chars free is fine, if you want more charging for that is not really a big problem. But the game already have too little multiplayer interaction, they need to make the game more about groups and playing together with other people or most players will still tire fast.

Putting a band aid on a gunwound just aint enough, if the game was fine from the beginning it would have done fine as P2P as well.

  User Deleted
11/23/12 6:05:43 AM#57

Also worth to mention on this free™ discussion is.

in the past subscription included all the content SWTOR had to offer.

now it doesnt.

Someone might ask - why that cash shop item cant drop from monster?

Someone might answer - because its a feature.

 

 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16683

11/23/12 6:05:51 AM#58
Originally posted by waveslayer

Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.

It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not  have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax. 

Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.

You kinda base GW2 comparision on guesses, no one knows how much the expansions will cost and you wont need them for playing. And it is not at all unlikely that you might buy the expansions for gems which you can buy for gold.... And I dont see what the tax have to do with anything, I paid $60 for GW2 including tax.

But yeah, you can play TOR without paying for anything. The problem is really to charge for flashpoints and raids, that is a huge misstake. I dont have any problem with the rest of the things they charge for (except the hotbars, tha just seems cheap) but I dont really see how EA will earn more money on it either without revamping the game.

The $15 fee was never really the reason TOR lost so many players, Wow and Rift have the same and get in more than enough.

The problem was that it lacked parts in the multiplaying part and further restricting it will hurt the game even more. They should instead encourage people to play together and add more free multiplayer content. Charge for some of the classes or whatever, but dont touch the most important MMO part.

If I just want to play with myself I dont play MMOs, I play to play with others. While I might pay for that limiting it makes it a lot harder to find people to play with.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16683

11/23/12 6:07:50 AM#59
Originally posted by maji
Fallen Earth got a great F2P model. You can do about everything you can do with a paid account, you just get 25% less XP, take a bit longer for crafting, and some other "takes a bit longer" things. But you can do the same stuff as a paid account, and have all game features available.

I can understand why EA didnt go for that, it seems like it must take leeching to the next level.

Nah, if you want to look on a game that successfully converted you should look on DDO, its payment model would work fine.

  superniceguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2277

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

11/23/12 6:24:50 AM#60
Originally posted by Loke666
 

Personally I think limiting people to 2 chars free is fine, if you want more charging for that is not really a big problem.

The 2 char limit is not fine, because it is locked at 2 and can not even buy more.  It is a gamebreaker, mainly for returning players

You can not even create 2 more chars on another server. P2P accounts have about 50 slots total, and 12 per server. F2P gets 2 total, and can not get more, even via Cartel Coins. 2 slots vs 12 is a sixth, so on that theory they could give 8 total, and 2 per server, plus then be able to buy more (which even this is not currently available)

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