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General Discussion  » They Shut Down the 11,000 Post Thread

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116 posts found
  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

11/22/12 12:55:26 AM#101
Originally posted by evolver1972
 

I'm not talking about stats.  That's where "in terms of effort expended to get them" comes in.

 

Anet has stated that they saw a gap in how much time it took to get exotics vs. how much time it took to get legendaries.  So they introduced a new set to go between them in order to break up the time/effort gap.

This is one twisted logic that makes no sense so lets break it down, shall we?

1. Exotics and legendaries were identical in stats. 

2. ANet introduces Ascended gear that is above exotics.

3. ANet buffs legendaries so it is now better than both exotics and ascended gear.

4. Welcome to gear grind.

 

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

11/22/12 1:04:49 AM#102
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by evolver1972
 

I'm not talking about stats.  That's where "in terms of effort expended to get them" comes in.

 

Anet has stated that they saw a gap in how much time it took to get exotics vs. how much time it took to get legendaries.  So they introduced a new set to go between them in order to break up the time/effort gap.

This is one twisted logic that makes no sense so lets break it down, shall we?

1. Exotics and legendaries were identical in stats. 

2. ANet introduces Ascended gear that is above exotics.

3. ANet buffs legendaries so it is now better than both exotics and ascended gear.

4. Welcome to gear grind.

 

How twisted is it when someone deliberately ignores what another is saying to try to prove his opinion as fact?

 

As for gear grind....yeah, one instance makes a pattern I guess.  Would it have been gear grind if Ascended had been there at release?  Would anyone have even batted an eyelash?  Most likely not.  If Anet never introduces another tier, is it stil a grind?  If it is, then that means that every tier of gear from the beginning is gear grind.

 

So, I ask, how is what I said twisted logic?  I specifically said I wasn't talking about a stat gap.  I (and ArenaNet) have said repeatedly now that the gap was in the time/effort it took to get exotics vs. legendaries.  Go ahead and ignore that again so you can restate your misconception about what they did.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

11/22/12 1:11:40 AM#103
Originally posted by evolver1972
 

How twisted is it when someone deliberately ignores what another is saying to try to prove his opinion as fact?

 

As for gear grind....yeah, one instance makes a pattern I guess.  Would it have been gear grind if Ascended had been there at release?  Would anyone have even batted an eyelash?  Most likely not.  If Anet never introduces another tier, is it stil a grind?  If it is, then that means that every tier of gear from the beginning is gear grind.

 

So, I ask, how is what I said twisted logic?  I specifically said I wasn't talking about a stat gap.  I (and ArenaNet) have said repeatedly now that the gap was in the time/effort it took to get exotics vs. legendaries.  Go ahead and ignore that again so you can restate your misconception about what they did.

ANet stated before GW2 launch that they do not believe in gear grind nor gear gap.

Legendaries were purely cosmetic upgrades.

They've changed that and well, here we are.

Whether you want to defend ANet or not or you think gear grind is what you perceive to be is irrelevent.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

11/22/12 1:15:53 AM#104
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by evolver1972
 

How twisted is it when someone deliberately ignores what another is saying to try to prove his opinion as fact?

 

As for gear grind....yeah, one instance makes a pattern I guess.  Would it have been gear grind if Ascended had been there at release?  Would anyone have even batted an eyelash?  Most likely not.  If Anet never introduces another tier, is it stil a grind?  If it is, then that means that every tier of gear from the beginning is gear grind.

 

So, I ask, how is what I said twisted logic?  I specifically said I wasn't talking about a stat gap.  I (and ArenaNet) have said repeatedly now that the gap was in the time/effort it took to get exotics vs. legendaries.  Go ahead and ignore that again so you can restate your misconception about what they did.

ANet stated before GW2 launch that they do not believe in gear grind nor gear gap.

Legendaries were purely cosmetic upgrades.

They've changed that and well, here we are.

Whether you want to defend ANet or not or you think gear grind is what you perceive to be is irrelevent.

Legendaries are still purely cosmetic upgrades.  That hasn't changed at all.

 

But, hey, good luck in ignoring facts and trying to pass your opinion as fact.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

11/22/12 1:16:03 AM#105
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by evolver1972
 

I'm not talking about stats.  That's where "in terms of effort expended to get them" comes in.

 

Anet has stated that they saw a gap in how much time it took to get exotics vs. how much time it took to get legendaries.  So they introduced a new set to go between them in order to break up the time/effort gap.

This is one twisted logic that makes no sense so lets break it down, shall we?

1. Exotics and legendaries were identical in stats. 

2. ANet introduces Ascended gear that is above exotics.

3. ANet buffs legendaries so it is now better than both exotics and ascended gear.

4. Welcome to gear grind.

 

Last I heard legendaries will be buffed to always match the current best in slot item, which now Ascended. It should remain a fact that Legendaries are only for looks. Did they deviate from this statement?

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6110

11/22/12 1:26:05 AM#106
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by evolver1972

I'm not talking about stats.  That's where "in terms of effort expended to get them" comes in.

Anet has stated that they saw a gap in how much time it took to get exotics vs. how much time it took to get legendaries.  So they introduced a new set to go between them in order to break up the time/effort gap.

This is one twisted logic that makes no sense so lets break it down, shall we?

1. Exotics and legendaries were identical in stats. 

2. ANet introduces Ascended gear that is above exotics.

3. ANet buffs legendaries so it is now better than both exotics and ascended gear.

4. Welcome to gear grind.

I thought the issue was about gear treadmill, not grind.  So now it's that people have to grind anything at all, not that gear will be useless in 6 months?

I care about gear treadmill, not any sort of grind or progression.  GW1 had tons of grind, like most any other mmo.   You could get adequate weapons, runes, and insignias, but you often had to grind out or pay through the nose to get perfect sets.  Some specific greens or perfect golds with 8 or 9 reqs required a hell of a lot of farming.  What about elite skills that required groups or well decked heroes to acquire?

So you can get exotics at the drop of a hat, or buy your way into them.  Just a little more effort and you can work your way to ascended, and a huge grind later you can get legendary appearance status.  I think it's rather well implemented and fits the Guild Wars style just fine.  That's of course my opinion.  I know it hasn't changed the game for the better or worse for me.  The only thing I don't like about it is you have to dungeon crawl for them.  I'm not into that anymore.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6110

11/22/12 1:29:01 AM#107
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by evolver1972

I'm not talking about stats.  That's where "in terms of effort expended to get them" comes in.

Anet has stated that they saw a gap in how much time it took to get exotics vs. how much time it took to get legendaries.  So they introduced a new set to go between them in order to break up the time/effort gap.

This is one twisted logic that makes no sense so lets break it down, shall we?

1. Exotics and legendaries were identical in stats. 

2. ANet introduces Ascended gear that is above exotics.

3. ANet buffs legendaries so it is now better than both exotics and ascended gear.

4. Welcome to gear grind.

Last I heard legendaries will be buffed to always match the current best in slot item, which now Ascended. It should remain a fact that Legendaries are only for looks. Did they deviate from this statement?

I don't think that has changed.  I think the beef lies with the fact that currently legendaries = exotics and boosting legendaries above exotics violates the equality premise.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Falfeir

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/05
Posts: 495

Omnia mutantur; nihil interit.

11/22/12 3:42:37 AM#108
beautiful -related to the topic - question from shanaeri from offical forum AMA thread.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897 Hi,
Thanks for collating the AMA questions it’ll make it a lot easier to
see and respond.
If I might suggest a slight re-org of the list to help players and
Anet to get the most out of it. Personally I would move all questions
regarding Ascended weapons, player progression and stats increases to
the top of the list. For a lot of players this is the elephant in the
room. Also perhaps create a new category called player progression so
as to bring out these questions and give Chris chance to talk about
the future of the game.
Anyway, Please consider the questions below for inclusion
•It seems the controversy over the ascended items has unfortunately
swamped the news about the new content. Has the community’s reaction
surprised you and has the reaction in the community given you pause?
•To many people it seems Arenanet has gone back on it’s no gear.
horizontal progression promises.
Specifically they have been quoting Colin Johanson “The rarest items
in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need
them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your
character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to
play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we
make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this
prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful
and get to have fun too.”
and Mike O’Brian
“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours
to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically
acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual
appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than
everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about
grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games – we leave
the grind to other MMOs.”
What assurances can you give them, that this is not the case and that
the statements said back then still stand?
•The post by Chris Whiteside states that there was a ‘gap’ between
exotic and legendary that needed to be addressed. Since the stats gap
between the two is currently zero. Is there a reason for adding
increased stats, rather than cosmetic/effort required to bridge the
effort/time gap?
•Another common theme that this is a gear treadmill in all but name,
as it includes gated content and higher than previously maximum armor
and items. Would you mind outlining why these people have it all
wrong?
• Will the agony mechanic be a common factor in future content, or
will you introduce a new mechanic that will need new infusions to
counter?
•With the increase in basic maximum stats, how will you prevent people
who only log in occasionally being excluded in existing dungeons/
content due to suddenly not having maxed gear?
• Will future content be balanced around exotic gear stats, or
ascended gear stats in mind?
• Does the amount of segregation of players, caused by requiring
different levels in fractals concern you?
•Guild Wars one is still going strong after 7 years, and had 3
chapters, 1 expansion and loads of fun new content without any
increase in the maximum stats of armor or weapons. Why move away from
this clearly successful model?
•Will there be a subsequent increase in stats or new gated content in
the future?

I need more vespene gas.

  Raekon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 552

11/22/12 5:07:52 AM#109
Originally posted by simmihi
Originally posted by Ukiah
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by cptndunsel

The bigger issue here is Nexon. We have now all seen how Nexon is going to influence the game and its not pretty. Even the Anet guys knows this stinks - their inside joke (the under new mgmt sign in the Lost Shores for example) tells its own story. I doubt they have full control of the franchise at this point.

 

Can someone elborate on this?  What influence does Nexon have on GW2?  I know nothing about Nexon.

Thought everyone knew about this. In June, Nexon became the largest stockholder in Anet. It's not a MAJORITY stockholder, but the largest single stockholder:  http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/08/nexon-invests-6-8m-in-ncsoft-becomes-largest-shareholder/

Then, a longtime Nexon employee was hired as the Monetization Producer for ANet. She has a 'reputation'. She apparently 'destroyed' MapleStory by altering it's cash shop in some unabashedly greedy manner.

It was one of the warning signs for a lot of us that were on the fence about GuildWars2 a couple months ago. She's NOT popular with the community: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/75600-crystin-cox-and-the-gem-store/

Nexon is the worst disease that could happen, if they get the chance to fully implement their policies in the financial area of the game. They have destroyed many good games with their ideas about how cash shops should be. For example, in Atlantica Online you pay 30 bucks per month just for the basic stuff and about 100 bucks more for any new cash shop item you want - very powerful items and conveniences, which act with full power in pvp also. Be happy that this did not reach GW2 yet and enjoy it while you still can. Trust me, when you see Nexon, run like hell.

I won't go into anything else on this thread cause I saw a lot of mindless things being written and even some people showed that ANet had responded before they closed the thread the op links us to, people just ignore it keeping saying that ANet never responded, doesn't care and so on...

The reason why I'm replying to you however is that even Nexon like many say (and I agree to that too) is very greedy,

Atlantica Online was that way before they took over.

The prices were always high in their game shop and the whole game got destroyed through their power selling.

Mounts and other stuff that were added in casino like boxes in which you had like 0,01% chance to even receive one like 10€ per box was already ridicoulos. As if that wasn't enough, they started adding mercenaries in the item mall aswell that had a cost of like 50€, excluding skill books, upgrade gems and other.

The main reason why many players including me left Atlantica Online was their item shop and what they made out of it.

All of this before Nexon was even into play.

  User Deleted
11/22/12 5:16:50 AM#110
Originally posted by Meleagar

ANET didn't even respond in it to any of the issues/grievances.  No explanations, no reasoning, no assurances, nothing. Just shut it down, and at the same time I was temporarily suspended from the forum. I wonder how many other contributors to that thread were suspended from the forums?

I don't care who you are or how you feel about ascended, when a developer just won't respond to a 11,000 post thread with over 135,000 views showing no signs of ending and then just shuts it down, that just isn't right.

If I were a game developer, I'd probably not bother trying to post in a thread that large either.  I'm sure if they decide that they need to communicate information to players on such a big topic, they'll start a thread of their own, or post a blog update or something.

Anyway, I guess one of the downsides of a B2P MMO is that without a subscription, players have much less bargaining power and companies have much less expectations to fulfill.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

11/22/12 11:08:45 AM#111
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by cptndunsel

The bigger issue here is Nexon. We have now all seen how Nexon is going to influence the game and its not pretty. Even the Anet guys knows this stinks - their inside joke (the under new mgmt sign in the Lost Shores for example) tells its own story. I doubt they have full control of the franchise at this point.

 

Can someone elborate on this?  What influence does Nexon have on GW2?  I know nothing about Nexon.

 

I'm sure they MEANT NCSoft, since Nexon has nothing to do with GW2 as far as I've ever known.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  greenreen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1512

11/22/12 11:14:27 AM#112
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by cptndunsel

The bigger issue here is Nexon. We have now all seen how Nexon is going to influence the game and its not pretty. Even the Anet guys knows this stinks - their inside joke (the under new mgmt sign in the Lost Shores for example) tells its own story. I doubt they have full control of the franchise at this point.

 

Can someone elborate on this?  What influence does Nexon have on GW2?  I know nothing about Nexon.

 

I'm sure they MEANT NCSoft, since Nexon has nothing to do with GW2 as far as I've ever known.

They mean Nexon.

http://www.bizjournals.com/prnewswire/press_releases/2012/06/08/NY21443?nxid=62

An employee from Nexon now working with Arenanet.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/crystin-cox/3/957/a77

Crystin Cox's Experience
Monetization Producer
ArenaNet
Privately Held; 51-200 employees; Computer Games industry

March 2012 – Present (9 months)
Producer
Nexon
Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; Computer Games industry

January 2010 – February 2012 (2 years 2 months)
Associate Producer
Nexon
Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; Computer Games industry
January 2009 – February 2010 (1 year 2 months)

 

See, some people are concerned that the reason things changed on the game was pressure from these outside companies. They believe that the original concepts are being pushed aside because their "bosses" are making them do it. While an altruistic thought, they have exclaimed over and over again that there is no subversion, there is no one pulling their strings, this is an intended path. That's what intensifies the hurt feelings, if people could blame it on the big bad man, that's one approach to understand it, if you can't, then you have to hold them accountable as doing what they did with their own thoughts as the driving force. Some don't want to believe that they were betrayed so they are imagining the arenanet people as prisoners just trying to keep their jobs doing things as requested. That's how they make it "feel better".

 

I don't see any real evidence of it - here is the huge internet with anyone able to leak things without setting off any flags, I have proxies - don't you? I'm a developer and I have 5 remote servers with admin access, I could do anything under their IP. Anyway, I think it's an entertaining conspiracy theory with the "blingg" and "under new management" stuff but I think a person with access to the internet and proxies could say more. If they are silent then it's all just human pattern matching instead of a real thing going on. I see lots of things in clouds that aren't there too, you know.

 

  Ethos86

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/11
Posts: 129

11/22/12 11:15:08 AM#113

11.000 responses. Of which the half could be made by people defending the Ascended items while the people opposed to it could have responded 10 or 20 times in it because they are up in arms about it. (Likely not that much but still, see the point here? Probably not...)

I only shows it's a heated discussion. That's all.

People cry about everything. They even cry that the swamp fractal is too hard while in reality it's the most easy one of them all if you have brains to use.

  Betaguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2653

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

11/22/12 11:15:09 AM#114
Originally posted by Meleagar

ANET didn't even respond in it to any of the issues/grievances.  No explanations, no reasoning, no assurances, nothing. Just shut it down, and at the same time I was temporarily suspended from the forum. I wonder how many other contributors to that thread were suspended from the forums?

I don't care who you are or how you feel about ascended, when a developer just won't respond to a 11,000 post thread with over 135,000 views showing no signs of ending and then just shuts it down, that just isn't right.

In other news a kitten was beaten overseas...

  [TC]Orion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/05
Posts: 1

11/22/12 11:23:24 AM#115

jesus christ what a bunch of whiny fu*ks

games change deal with it, no game will ever be perfect to how u want to play it.  if you want to play a perfect game go learn how to code and make it yourself.

I for one was so fucking bored after hitting max everything.  there is nothing wrong with a gear grind provided there are multiple ways to achieve it.  SPVP is uneffected.  I dont see what the problem is.  Always something to aim for. 

I knew this would happen, arena net make a free2play almost perfect game and people still find something to bitch about, i feel sorry for the devs who put a lot of time and effort into making the game better.

The same people moaning are probably the ones whining a few months down the line when there is nothing new and nothing else to gain.

 

  Zoyita

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/10
Posts: 119

11/22/12 11:53:30 AM#116

I hate Nexon so bad, i couldnt play Dragon Nest under their management, they where cash shop desperate whores.

And btw did you saw the new gambling device on Aion? this gambling stuff is affecting now all their games not only GW2, how i hate gambling in games... people just dont buy this stuff so they we dont like it. Like I always say: The only thing ill buy from Cash shop is mounts or fashion (with real money) sorry but i dont support in game gambling or "chances".

Zoyita Xfire Miniprofile
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