Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

I honestly dont say this with any disrespect, but you have allot to learn about people, and cultures.  You dont have to like them all (and I dont) but I do respect what people believe in.  And to some people and cultures, what they believe in is more important than anything else. 

It has nothing to do with where someone's head is located.

Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

I honestly dont say this with any disrespect, but you have allot to learn about people, and cultures.  You dont have to like them all (and I dont) but I do respect what people believe in.  And to some people and cultures, what they believe in is more important than anything else. 

It has nothing to do with where someone's head is located.

LIke I said after this, honor and honoring your customers is great.  The idea that P2P is honorable, or as was explained honoring those who bought version 1, or going P2P is the only or best way to honor those, is ridiculous.

The idea presented that existing customers can't be honored with B2P is also short-sighted.  B2P means those who bought the game could play it.  Those who haven't could buy and play the game.  Existing customers could be honored, but SE wants more money out of them.  This doesn't sound like it's about honor to me.  It sounds as though they want more money.  It sounds like he's using a sensitive cultural more to couch an excuse to gouge a sub.  For this sort of game I think that is a mistake.

If this game has deep compelling systems with a well designed mix of sandbox and themepark design elements then maybe they could get away with a sub.  If this game is just a revamped content churn themepark then I think they're gouging wiht a sub.  We'll see though.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

I honestly dont say this with any disrespect, but you have allot to learn about people, and cultures.  You dont have to like them all (and I dont) but I do respect what people believe in.  And to some people and cultures, what they believe in is more important than anything else. 

It has nothing to do with where someone's head is located.

LIke I said after this, honor and honoring your customers is great.  The idea that P2P is honorable, or as was explained honoring those who bought version 1, or going P2P is the only or best way to honor those, is ridiculous.

The idea presented that existing customers can't be honored with B2P is also short-sighted.  B2P means those who bought the game could play it.  Those who haven't could buy and play the game.  Existing customers could be honored, but SE wants more money out of them.  This doesn't sound like it's about honor to me.  It sounds as though they want more money.  It sounds like he's using a sensitive cultural more to couch an excuse to gouge a sub.  For this sort of game I think that is a mistake.

If this game has deep compelling systems with a well designed mix of sandbox and themepark design elements then maybe they could get away with a sub.  If this game is just a revamped content churn themepark then I think they're gouging wiht a sub.  We'll see though.

When a game is F2P or B2P it nearly always relies on a cash shop. Whenever a game switches from P2P to one of those other two models the majority of the playerbase leaves and a new playerbase joins the game. It would be dishonouring the loyal players to make that switch as many would not want to play a game with a cash shop and would simply leave; we've seen it happen with LotRO and SWTOR.

I don't know if you've been following the development of XIV since Yoshi P took over but he has a very different way of doing things compared to most developers. He actually values the loyal fans, especially since if it weren't for them XIV would have just been canned entirely. It would be something of a betrayal of those fans to change business model at the last minute, I believe that's what he's saying.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

It's not ridiculous at all. If anything it's extremely refreshing.

And I also read that same interview.

What they are saying is that they believe paying a small amount of money each month should award players the entire game. Sounds good to me.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

It's not ridiculous at all. If anything it's extremely refreshing.

And I also read that same interview.

What they are saying is that they believe paying a small amount of money each month should award players the entire game. Sounds good to me.

How is it refreshing?  You're not getting the entire game for a monthly fee.  You have to buy the game, and presumably xpacs which are essentially micro-transactions, in addition to the monthly fee.  I guess there are still a lot under the assumption that a monthly fee equals more content?  If you have to pay extra for the content then what is your monthly fee going towards?  We already know that server and account overhead are easily covered in the box price of games.

A small recurring fee equals a lot of money over time.  At $15 per month you're paying nearly $200 per year for a game plus the box / xpac fees.

To say that they are honoring existing customers by charging them more *is* ridiculous.  That may be a perfectly acceptable business model, but to bullshit and say that it's somehow more honorable is a lie.  It's perfectly fine to charge that way for a game, but don't couch it in the guise of goodwill.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

It's not ridiculous at all. If anything it's extremely refreshing.

And I also read that same interview.

What they are saying is that they believe paying a small amount of money each month should award players the entire game. Sounds good to me.

How is it refreshing?  You're not getting the entire game for a monthly fee.  You have to buy the game, and presumably xpacs which are essentially micro-transactions, in addition to the monthly fee.  I guess there are still a lot under the assumption that a monthly fee equals more content?  If you have to pay extra for the content then what is your monthly fee going towards?  We already know that server and account overhead are easily covered in the box price of games.

A small recurring fee equals a lot of money over time.  At $15 per month you're paying nearly $200 per year for a game plus the box / xpac fees.

To say that they are honoring existing customers by charging them more *is* ridiculous.  That may be a perfectly acceptable business model, but to bullshit and say that it's somehow more honorable is a lie.  It's perfectly fine to charge that way for a game, but don't couch it in the guise of goodwill.

I for one am glad they are keeping to P2P instead of B2P with cash shops bullshit. Personaly i find it to be a better model. Now prove they would be charging more for this model than cash shop pay to win crap.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

It's not ridiculous at all. If anything it's extremely refreshing.

And I also read that same interview.

What they are saying is that they believe paying a small amount of money each month should award players the entire game. Sounds good to me.

How is it refreshing?  You're not getting the entire game for a monthly fee.  You have to buy the game, and presumably xpacs which are essentially micro-transactions, in addition to the monthly fee.  I guess there are still a lot under the assumption that a monthly fee equals more content?  If you have to pay extra for the content then what is your monthly fee going towards?  We already know that server and account overhead are easily covered in the box price of games.

A small recurring fee equals a lot of money over time.  At $15 per month you're paying nearly $200 per year for a game plus the box / xpac fees.

To say that they are honoring existing customers by charging them more *is* ridiculous.  That may be a perfectly acceptable business model, but to bullshit and say that it's somehow more honorable is a lie.  It's perfectly fine to charge that way for a game, but don't couch it in the guise of goodwill.

Well, I've never had problems with buying the game, paying to access the game and paying for expansion packs.

What is refreshing is that they started the game as a monthly sub game, realize they screwed up and are not going to change the payment model on the players who originally bought into the game as a "monthly sub game". Additionally the sub for active players who already had a sub is going to be less than the regular sub.

Also, based on what you say, that is assuming that they are charging for the expansion packs as my experience with asian games is that they usulaly offer them a part fo the sub. Perhaps Square Enix doesn't do this? Not sure I don't have a lot of experience with their first final fantasy game.

edit: Also, paying anything over a period of time adds up. How much do you pay for your weekly beer? Or do you buy coffee every day? Do you say "gosh, my $20 or so dollars per month really does add up, I'll just have to buy one cup of coffee per week? And maybe you do because you would rather use the rest of that money for something else.

It's about choice. And since I"m not part of the bandwagon who feels likee $15 per month is significant it isn't an issue. Furthuremore, it's about maintaining the future of the game. These games need to make money. I'm sure you as an employee know full well that your company needs money right?

So if only a set amount of people buy the game they are going to have to make money somehow. Thats' either the cash shop route or sub fee route.

+1 for sub route. I don't see the cash shop route as viable because it basically becomes nickle and diming areas and constantly advertising for more purchases. I see this with LOTRO all the time. It's about hoping that the game makes enough money to cover costs. Aion recently had an issue because their cash shop DIDN'T make enough money. that's an issue for the future of the game if that trend continues.

Perhaps alternate payment methods such as 5 dollars for less time per week might be the answer for those who think that additional $10 is a bit much?

edit: and here's the link to the interview in case someone else didn't post it:

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=31127

Originally posted by GamingGeek
Methinks the OP was a drive-by attempt to start the spread of misinformation, and nothing more.

Thank you for necro'ing it....

But yes this is a patently false statement FFXIV will be SUBSCRIPTION BASED.

P2P FOR THE WIN :)

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

Good that we know you wont be playing FF XIV then :)

How is it refreshing?  You're not getting the entire game for a monthly fee.  You have to buy the game, and presumably xpacs which are essentially micro-transactions, in addition to the monthly fee.  I guess there are still a lot under the assumption that a monthly fee equals more content?  If you have to pay extra for the content then what is your monthly fee going towards?  We already know that server and account overhead are easily covered in the box price of games.

A small recurring fee equals a lot of money over time.  At $15 per month you're paying nearly $200 per year for a game plus the box / xpac fees.

To say that they are honoring existing customers by charging them more *is* ridiculous.  That may be a perfectly acceptable business model, but to bullshit and say that it's somehow more honorable is a lie.  It's perfectly fine to charge that way for a game, but don't couch it in the guise of goodwill.

$15 per month is fee for using the game servers and the game database which they have to update and service all the time :) 50-60 bucks is for the ''game''itself ... how much you think all this costs? Years of development and 24/7 servers, game service, updates, support? Use your brain and maybe you will find it out

When you buy a gym pass, do they give you all those supplements and cloths for free too? NO? Really?

When you buy a car, do they give you free gas every month and pay you every service? NO? Really?

...

..

.

Normal person would say that playing At $15 per month for something you can play EVERY day for several months and years is NOTHING. I am paying myself 600 bucks/year for gym pass (another 500 bucks for supplements) dont even ask me how much I pay for service and gas to my car .. so yea $15 per month ? xD heh

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

Then you obviously have not been following the game at all.

The fact the game is at great expense being rebuilt rather than just going the easy way of Free to play shows the class of the company as a whole.  The fact that when the game realsed they essentially waived the sub for players for a long time shows what they are about.

FFF XIV ARR is no longer about "making a profit" for SOE in the short or medium term, they want to restore their image, they dont want to be remembered for its original incarnation they want people to think better of them.  Its probably cost them no small amount to build the game essentially twice, while maintaining updates for the first version but they have done that because of their culture.

I dont want to sound like a fan boy, because like many I trashed the original XIV for all it was worth, but the way they have handled it shows a culture that is vastly different to the normal practises we are used to, the fact that it is considered "stupid" to want to do the right thing, by some, is to me the sad part.

You people are arguing against posts from 4 months ago....

This is a necro'd thread.

Then you obviously have not been following the game at all.

 

The fact the game is at great expense being rebuilt rather than just going the easy way of Free to play shows the class of the company as a whole.  The fact that when the game realsed they essentially waived the sub for players for a long time shows what they are about.

 

FFF XIV ARR is no longer about "making a profit" for SOE in the short or medium term, they want to restore their image, they dont want to be remembered for its original incarnation they want people to think better of them.  Its probably cost them no small amount to build the game essentially twice, while maintaining updates for the first version but they have done that because of their culture.

 

I dont want to sound like a fan boy, because like many I trashed the original XIV for all it was worth, but the way they have handled it shows a culture that is vastly different to the normal practises we are used to, the fact that it is considered "stupid" to want to do the right thing, by some, is to me the sad part.

Exactly this ... Somewhere I saw post saying that they CANT even allow A Realm Reborn to fail or the comapny itself Square Enix is going to baknrupt :)

The future of Square Enix is depending on how A Realm Reborn succeeds

4 months old post xD HEHE fail

Originally posted by Kothoses

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by zevni78

They just comfirmed that they are keeping the sub as a "matter of honor" so b2p is out of the question. They see it as a part of the attempt to salvage FF and SE's reputation.

If that is truly the reason then they have hteir heads so far up their arses it isn't even funny.  Choosing a payment model as a "matter of honor" has to be the most ridiculous reason I've ever heard.  This is a business.  They should do what makes the most business sense.  If P2P makes that sense to them then good, but it's not a moral dilemma.  *boggle*

I would still like to see a reference one way or the other, or a link to a conversion/interview where this is discussed.  As of now it's just forum conjecture (the worst kind ever).

Then you obviously have not been following the game at all.

 

The fact the game is at great expense being rebuilt rather than just going the easy way of Free to play shows the class of the company as a whole.  The fact that when the game realsed they essentially waived the sub for players for a long time shows what they are about.

 

FFF XIV ARR is no longer about "making a profit" for SOE in the short or medium term, they want to restore their image, they dont want to be remembered for its original incarnation they want people to think better of them.  Its probably cost them no small amount to build the game essentially twice, while maintaining updates for the first version but they have done that because of their culture.

 

I dont want to sound like a fan boy, because like many I trashed the original XIV for all it was worth, but the way they have handled it shows a culture that is vastly different to the normal practises we are used to, the fact that it is considered "stupid" to want to do the right thing, by some, is to me the sad part.

EA / Bioware could learn from SquareEnix, any other company probably would have just scrapped the game. I hope this turns out well for them, and lives as long as FFXI has.

FFXIV:ARR will be P2P just like FFXI is . You buy the game (unless you already own V1 , or just want to ) install on your PC , Then get 30 free days to play . After 30 days you pay anywhere from 12$ to 15$ USD to play per month.  When a Exp. Pack comes out you pay for the Exp. Pack only you download it the new content is included with your monthly service fee of 12$ or 15$ USD. You DO NOT pay extra to play a Exp. Pack other then to physicaly buy the Expansion Pack.  JUST LIKE FFXI . And again this topic is 4 months old , i even quoted the GAME DEVLOPER HIMSELF so get any notion out of your heads that this game will be B2P or F2P this is SQUAREENIX FFXI has been going now 10 years and is still NOT B2P or F2P it is Sub. Based STILL . Sometimes i swear some of you people amaze me its like you wake up and think everything about the truth i know is a lie so everything is untrue and everyone is wrong even the person who made the damn game is wrong . that or your parents droped you off a roof top a few times..........and i can understand why :)