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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Am I missing something about the ascended gear hysteria?

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130 posts found
  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

11/20/12 9:33:37 AM#41
Originally posted by Fearum

I don't see a reason to play this game after you get to 80 and get a full set of exotics, there is nothing else to do. You don't have to really do anything to get the exotics either, except buy them off the tp or make them with mats bought off the tp. Legendaries really give me nothing to look forward too unless you like rainbows and unicorns. I have 3 80's now, really didnt have to play too much of the game to get the second and third one to 80 since you get 10 levels for maxing out crafting you can powerlevel your alts for a few gold. All 3 80's have full exotic gear and have no reason to play them now.

WvW has been a ghost town the last few weeks, been on SBI since week 2 after launch. All borderlands have 0 que time and there is nothing to really do when you get in there. I liked the orbs, but instead of fix them they just removed them. The maps are getting boring and they are all the same except EB.

Adding gear would help, to give something to do with my 80's.

Seems like a waste to power level characters like that.

What are you rushing for? 

Level 80 is just a number, same with stats on gear. 

You play these games because they're enjoyable right?

Why are you rushing through the gameplay for the numbers? 

Acting as if 99% of the game is simply in the way of you being 80 with exotics on...

Should have saved yourself the trouble and kept your cc/money in your pocket.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2677

11/20/12 9:35:04 AM#42
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

 

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

 

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats. Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

Actually does gear score in wow prevent you from entering a dungeon/raid if you walk to the instance instead of using the dungeon/raid finder?

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Zzad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/14/11
Posts: 1329

11/20/12 9:38:57 AM#43
4) The entire feeling of the community has changed. Peopel are now kicking people out of groups, or refusing them in groups, based on levels

That´s the thing i hate most of this new dungeon & ascended gear  :(

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

11/20/12 9:39:13 AM#44
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

 

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

 

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

Ok....where's the grind?

 

"if the gear you're looking for naturally drops...."

 

Would you have been ok with Ascended gear if it was there when the game was first released?  If so, why is it a problem now?  If they don't make any new tiers in the future, where's the problem?

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5258

11/20/12 9:40:50 AM#45
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

 

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

 

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

11/20/12 9:42:46 AM#46
Originally posted by Z3R01

Seems like a waste to power level characters like that.

What are you rushing for? 

Level 80 is just a number, same with stats on gear. 

You play these games because they're enjoyable right?

Why are you rushing through the gameplay for the numbers? 

Acting as if 99% of the game is simply in the way of you being 80 with exotics on...

Should have saved yourself the trouble and kept your cc/money in your pocket.

 

I haven't been rushing, but I still got to level 80 eventually.  I even tried like hell to avoid it, by making lots of alts.. but now, here I am, and find myself on the verge of quitting, because there's nothing I want to do.  Just feels like a dead end.  I wish they had some sandbox or fluff type RP things to do, at least.  Or maybe PvP that was more like RvR, but I know that'll never happen.  They need *something* other than cosmetics for people to work towards, longterm.

 

Seems like ANet is completely clueless when it comes to the concept of making gameplay rewarding.  Even pac-man had levels, and people played to get to the next one, until they got to the end.  Progression is a concept that's been a part of video games as long as they've existed.  

 

Cutting that away in the name of fun, is like saying candy doesn't need sugar, because its candy.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 823

11/20/12 9:49:50 AM#47
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

I think majority are angry or upset more because of the prinicple behind the changes than the actual change? i could be wrong though. But from i have gathered so far players are unhappy because Anet went against its own original design of ' stats being the same for eveyone' and 'grind for appearance items only'.

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

11/20/12 9:52:24 AM#48
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

 

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

 

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.

I stand corrected.  However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.

 

But, maybe that's just me being in denial.  I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2?  The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear.  And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

11/20/12 9:52:47 AM#49
Originally posted by Vhaln
Originally posted by Z3R01

Seems like a waste to power level characters like that.

What are you rushing for? 

Level 80 is just a number, same with stats on gear. 

You play these games because they're enjoyable right?

Why are you rushing through the gameplay for the numbers? 

Acting as if 99% of the game is simply in the way of you being 80 with exotics on...

Should have saved yourself the trouble and kept your cc/money in your pocket.

 

I haven't been rushing, but I still got to level 80 eventually.  I even tried like hell to avoid it, by making lots of alts.. but now, here I am, and find myself on the verge of quitting, because there's nothing I want to do.  Just feels like a dead end.  I wish they had some sandbox or fluff type RP things to do, at least.  Or maybe PvP that was more like RvR, but I know that'll never happen.  They need *something* other than cosmetics for people to work towards, longterm.

 

Seems like ANet is completely clueless when it comes to the concept of making gameplay rewarding.  Even pac-man had levels, and people played to get to the next one, until they got to the end.  Progression is a concept that's been a part of video games as long as they've existed.  

 

Cutting that away in the name of fun, is like saying candy doesn't need sugar, because its candy.

You dont like the new zone? or the dungeon??

I have one level 80 ranger, im still doing map completion with that guy while leveling a Necro & Eng. 

 

Edit: I've played a ton of MMOs and honestly its always the same. You level, hit max level, max out a craft or two, dungeon run for gear, pvp for gear (cosmetic or stat based) and wait for more content. 

Wow, Rift, SWTOR, LOTRO, AOC, WAR, AION, TERA, TSW, EQ2, Vanguard... i can go on and on. All of them offer a similar end goal. 

 

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2677

11/20/12 9:56:30 AM#50
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

 

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

 

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

Ok....where's the grind?

 

"if the gear you're looking for naturally drops...."

 

Would you have been ok with Ascended gear if it was there when the game was first released?  If so, why is it a problem now?  If they don't make any new tiers in the future, where's the problem?

Depends on how much time it is required to grind for the item.

Depends on how you can obtain them.

It would at least been a known quantity from the beggining.

And in the future you will be saying "What if Super Ascended was in the game from the beggining? What if they don't introduce a new tier on top of super ascended, where is the problem".

But that is not the full story.

The story is Anet introduced Ascended items because:

1) A gap between exotics and legendary. -> Now there is a gap between ascended and legendary. Curiously the first items have no legendary couter-part. Funny, isn't it? maybe they could have introduced legendary armor and back slots since amulets and rings have no 3D model;

2) Players have complained that there is nothing to after level 80 and acquiring exotic items. The same players will say there is nothing to do once they acquire ascended items.

Now, you might need to see what happens to the glass that is knocked over the edge of the table before declaring it will fall to the floor. I'll just say the glass will fall to the floor so there is no need to knock it.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

11/20/12 9:57:08 AM#51
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

I think majority are angry or upset more because of the prinicple behind the changes than the actual change? i could be wrong though. But from i have gathered so far players are unhappy because Anet went against its own original design of ' stats being the same for eveyone' and 'grind for appearance items only'.

If it's just a one time deal where Anet fixed what they felt was a gap, how is that going against their original design?  And Legendaries are still the highest level items in the game and are grinded (?) for appearance only.

 

Does anyone realize they can still skip the Ascended gear and go straight for Legendaries, just like they did before?  Or, at least, that's the plan that hasn't been fully implemented yet.  And once you get Legendaries, you have infusion slots, just like Ascended gear.  So.....if you have such a problem with Ascended gear, skip it.  Work toward Legendaries instead.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  User Deleted
11/20/12 9:57:23 AM#52
Yeah its a minimal power upgrade with a decent time investment required. Its just something for heavy PvE'ers to work towards. Nothing to have a hissy fit over.  
  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 823

11/20/12 9:58:14 AM#53
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

 

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

 

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.

I stand corrected.  However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.

 

But, maybe that's just me being in denial.  I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2?  The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear.  And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.

Well that one necessary thing is a new content so ofcourse everyone would want to do it. Other than that there has been no changes to those who enjoy W vW so all you are left with is finishing the new lvl 80 zone and go back to grinding plinx as far as PVE is concerned.

GW2 isn't that special snowflake by the way. In every other MMO also you don't need to keep doing the new dungeons or raids only because they are being added to the game and yet many call it necessary grind.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2677

11/20/12 9:59:19 AM#54
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

 

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

 

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.

I stand corrected.  However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.

 

But, maybe that's just me being in denial.  I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2?  The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear.  And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.

GW1 didn't have a grind for max stats.

Acquiring a max damage weapon or max armor was fairly trivial - just by levelling you would have the resources to do so.

That argument of max stats not being require is equal to the argument that you don't need to grind gear unless you want to do that particular piece of content called raid.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Zzad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/14/11
Posts: 1329

11/20/12 10:02:22 AM#55

 So.....if you have such a problem with Ascended gear, skip it.  Work toward Legendaries instead.

Personally i don´t have a problem with ascended gear itself... my biggest complaint is that now people cannot join any group to do the dungeon since we are all split up in levels... LFG lvl 7 Fractals..... LFG lvl 12 Fractals....

In few weeks it´ll be a nightmare to try to find a group for lower levels..... I´m having a hard time myself trying to keep up with my friends due to work & disconnection problems on the dungeon :(

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

11/20/12 10:05:16 AM#56
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Vhaln

I haven't been rushing, but I still got to level 80 eventually.  I even tried like hell to avoid it, by making lots of alts.. but now, here I am, and find myself on the verge of quitting, because there's nothing I want to do.  Just feels like a dead end.  I wish they had some sandbox or fluff type RP things to do, at least.  Or maybe PvP that was more like RvR, but I know that'll never happen.  They need *something* other than cosmetics for people to work towards, longterm.

Seems like ANet is completely clueless when it comes to the concept of making gameplay rewarding.  Even pac-man had levels, and people played to get to the next one, until they got to the end.  Progression is a concept that's been a part of video games as long as they've existed.  

Cutting that away in the name of fun, is like saying candy doesn't need sugar, because its candy.

You dont like the new zone? or the dungeon??

I have one level 80 ranger, im still doing map completion with that guy while leveling a Necro & Eng. 

 

Actually no.  I don't like instances, and the new island seems to be the most boring zone in the entire game.  Even if I did like it though, what am I going to do, just keep killing stuff there, for no reason?  That's like improving the carrot on the stick paradigm, by simply removing the carrot.  Yay, now we just have a stick.  Thanks, ANet, good luck with that.

 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2565

11/20/12 10:05:34 AM#57
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

 

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

 

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

When I wathed the video, they said. "I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. YAY!, I swung a sword again. We just don't want players to grind". Maybe that's not word for word, but they did say it.

I stand corrected.  However, considering that before and after this video was released their mantra was "We don't want players to have to grind", I'd consider that one a mistake.

 

But, maybe that's just me being in denial.  I figure that GW1 had a bunch of optional grind, why wouldn't GW2?  The biggest difference to me is that I don't have to grind to get necessary gear.  And so far, I have yet to see Ascended gear as being a) necessary - unless you want to do one specific thing in the game - and b) not really a grind anyway.

Well that one necessary thing is a new content so ofcourse everyone would want to do it. Other than that there has been no changes to those who enjoy W vW so all you are left with is finishing the new lvl 80 zone and go back to grinding plinx as far as PVE is concerned.

GW2 isn't that special snowflake by the way. In every other MMO also you don't need to keep doing the new dungeons or raids only because they are being added to the game and yet many call it necessary grind.

In Rift, you actually have to, if you want to do 20 man Raids. That is because the steps between equipment levels is huge - in 1-2% but 20-40%. Makes it a total grind to play.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

11/20/12 10:06:07 AM#58

 

Im looking at this new content and not seeing how A-net went against its original design.

THey said you wouldn't grind for items.

Whats a grind? Its running the same content over and over in hopes of obtaining a reward.

Last I checked the dungeon was random (the zone has random events also).

You run 3 levels that are randomly pulled from 9. You get a unique experience everytime you run the dungeon.

How is that grinding? 

 

I think its come to the point that if you have to do anything for an extended period of time people will cry and say its grinding...

 

 

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

11/20/12 10:07:17 AM#59
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

 

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

 

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?

Anet said "we don't want players to have to grind for stats.Grind should be reserved for cosmethic."

Ok....where's the grind?

 

"if the gear you're looking for naturally drops...."

 

Would you have been ok with Ascended gear if it was there when the game was first released?  If so, why is it a problem now?  If they don't make any new tiers in the future, where's the problem?

Depends on how much time it is required to grind for the item.

Depends on how you can obtain them.

It would at least been a known quantity from the beggining.

And in the future you will be saying "What if Super Ascended was in the game from the beggining? What if they don't introduce a new tier on top of super ascended, where is the problem".

But that is not the full story.

The story is Anet introduced Ascended items because:

1) A gap between exotics and legendary. -> Now there is a gap between ascended and legendary. Curiously the first items have no legendary couter-part. Funny, isn't it? maybe they could have introduced legendary armor and back slots since amulets and rings have no 3D model;

2) Players have complained that there is nothing to after level 80 and acquiring exotic items. The same players will say there is nothing to do once they acquire ascended items.

Now, you might need to see what happens to the glass that is knocked over the edge of the table before declaring it will fall to the floor. I'll just say the glass will fall to the floor so there is no need to knock it.

No, what you're saying is one glass gets knocked to the floor, and that means that all other glasses to follow will get knocked to the floor.  You are proclaiming a pattern based on one instance.

 

Legendaries and Ascended will enjoy the same stats, so again, Legendaries are only cosmetic.  Ascended is meant to be exactly between Exotic and Legendary in terms of time, so adding another level in between would only cause an imbalance of time.  Which would of course be a pattern and an issue.  Proclaiming it both at this point is very premature, I think.

 

Not all of the Ascended and Legendary gear is out yet.  They are still implementing this stuff.  They have already said that repeatedly. 

 

As for your "Super Ascended" remark, no, I wouldn't say that.  Because then there is actually a pattern.  A bad one.  If they were to add a tier without an expansion (and maybe even then.....), then yes, I will say pretty much the same things you are now.  I'm just not ready to condemn Anet at tne mere hint of abstract possibilities without a pattern being actually established.  I see many people are willing to, though.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

11/20/12 10:07:47 AM#60
Originally posted by Vhaln
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Vhaln

I haven't been rushing, but I still got to level 80 eventually.  I even tried like hell to avoid it, by making lots of alts.. but now, here I am, and find myself on the verge of quitting, because there's nothing I want to do.  Just feels like a dead end.  I wish they had some sandbox or fluff type RP things to do, at least.  Or maybe PvP that was more like RvR, but I know that'll never happen.  They need *something* other than cosmetics for people to work towards, longterm.

Seems like ANet is completely clueless when it comes to the concept of making gameplay rewarding.  Even pac-man had levels, and people played to get to the next one, until they got to the end.  Progression is a concept that's been a part of video games as long as they've existed.  

Cutting that away in the name of fun, is like saying candy doesn't need sugar, because its candy.

You dont like the new zone? or the dungeon??

I have one level 80 ranger, im still doing map completion with that guy while leveling a Necro & Eng. 

 

Actually no.  I don't like instances, and the new island seems to be the most boring zone in the entire game.  Even if I did like it though, what am I going to do, just keep killing stuff there, for no reason?  That's like improving the carrot on the stick paradigm, by simply removing the carrot.  Yay, now we just have a stick.  Thanks, ANet, good luck with that.

 

So... you're playing a MMORPG and you don't like dungeons or running open world content? Why are you playing?

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

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