Originally posted by Torgrim

What we had before was

Tier 1: Exotic

Tier 3: Legendary

What we got now is

Tier 1: Exotic

Tier 2: Ascended

Tier 3: Legendary

 

Anet just filled in the blanks for those who don't have the time or desire to farm for legendary and I find that was a smart move.

 

Originally posted by fundayz

Originally posted by Nailzzz

     The source of the outrage is less what they are doing, and more about that they lied to us to get us to buy the game. I dont know why it is that people find it hard to believe that there are still people out there that might get a little upset that they basically paid someone for a stated service and then the service was denied. That is pretty much the definition of fraud. 

     Had Arenanet been a bit more honest with there customers up front about there intention to add a gear grind, this wouldnt be an issue. But instead all the prerelease marketing explicitly stated the exact opposite (numerous times and with great detail).

     I have no problem with gear grinds. I have a problem with dishonesty. It is likely that i will abondon this game at some point in the future for a gear grind, but if i do it will be because the other game will not go out of thier way to lie to me about it.

     Im not going to be reactionary about all this. I will still play GW2 till another promising game comes along, but this action on Arenanet's part is the difference between me investing my loyalty and money into GW2 vs me moving onto the next thing.

     I just dont see why i should support a company that thinks so little of its customers that it has to BS them. Maybe many of you will pay for the priveledge of being lied to. I will not. They already rec'd about $400 from me, but they wont see a penny more after this.

Hahaha this is complete and udder melodrama.

There is nothing about Ascended gear that changes the game to any significant degree and I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Never mind the fact Ascended is still not as powerful as Legendaries, which have been in the game since before release :S That +4 Power isn't going to let people beat current content significantly easier.

Oh and before you mention Infusions, from everything we've seen so far it seem like it's an added mechanic in order to improve PvE. There is multiple types of Infusions which means that they don't have a simple 1>2>3 progression but rather seem like specialized boons for specific content.

 

 

Originally posted by DavisFlight

And while its only a small set of chores so far, as this game grows eventually there'll be multiple tiers you have to grind before you see new areas.

This is completely fabricated.

There is even a whole post on the forums explaining that there won't be more and more tiers, specially not linearly progressive ones. Not only that but Ascended gear is not replacing the top-end gear, that is still legendaries; the power increase from Exotics to Ascended is not anywhere close to what you get from tier to another in other MMO's.

If anything, the fact that you can obtain Ascended gear without having to clear prerequisite dungeons (i.e. the current ones) further weakens your claim that it adds traditional progression.

Thanks for underlining that. I find it funny that so many people fall for that spinned claim. There is a tier added, and legendary is just bumped up to that higher tier's stats. So yeah, Ascended didn't replace legendary. But it still added an extra tier in stats. Legendary was never higher then exotics in stats. So it wasn't like you assume (because apparently you didn't know) the top end gear in stats. They are just special looking. Ascended is the new tier they are talking about. The principle is the same. New stats to obtain after you were given the impression that you already had max stats.

So the outrage is mainly about adding new stats instead of just looks like they kept reassuring us if it came to introductions of new gear after release. That they now state that not more stat tiers are going to be added has not much value, because they already came back from that once in the eyes of the ppl who rage about it now.

More importantly, for introducing a new armourset that accepts infusions, there is no reason even to make it's base stats higher. They even put stats on the infusions. Why? It is obviously a carrot for the gear treadmill loving players who kept shouting about GW2 having no endgame.

Originally posted by IPolygon

Originally posted by Torgrim

What we had before was

Tier 1: Exotic

Tier 3: Legendary

What we got now is

Tier 1: Exotic

Tier 2: Ascended

Tier 3: Legendary

 

Anet just filled in the blanks for those who don't have the time or desire to farm for legendary and I find that was a smart move.

 

 

That is not true. Exotics and Legendaries had the exact same stats. The only difference was the grind to get a Legendary. It was a dumb move, there never was a gap, since Legendaries were purely cosmetical upgrades.

 

With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall. Of course you will do better than anyone equipped with a lower tier.

 

Needless to say Ascended gear is another grind as someone found out http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13gj0p/ascended_gear_and_infusions_how_to_make_them_and/ . Feel free to make up your mind, but the gear grind is there and probably as good as Aion's. Before the update, grind for gear was mostly optional. You had to save a little karma for full exotics, but that's easy to get and could work towards a cosmetic upgrade. Now with Ascended gear, grind becomes mandatory and Ascended gear will make all prior content obsolete/too easy. Thanks to a dumb down-scaling system.

Yes I know they are just cosmetic and don't really add that much of extra stats overall, but what do you propose, no grind at all, how will you set your goals to strive for?

Besides Anet is not done with Ascended and legendary, who know how it will be in the future for the better or worse is yet to be seen but for now I don't see the hassle and drama queen babbling.

The selling point of GW2 was no gear treadmill. Now they implemented a full fledged gear treadmill, which rewards players who grind more or buy more gems.

ArenaNet has basically done everything they said they wouldn't and you still think this is "hysteria"? Just look at their recent take on Ascended gear on the Official forum, they think their playerbase is officially retard.

One thing about them I like, tho: the refund policy. I just got my 60 bucks back 2 days ago, couldn't be happier.

Originally posted by knuckledust13

The selling point of GW2 was no gear treadmill. Now they implemented a full fledged gear treadmill, which rewards players who grind more or buy more gems.

 

ArenaNet has basically done everything they said they wouldn't and you still think this is "hysteria"? Just look at their recent take on Ascended gear on the Official forum, they think their playerbase is officially retard.

 

One thing about them I like, tho: the refund policy. I just got my 60 bucks back 2 days ago, couldn't be happier.

I would agree with Arenanet: if their customers aren't willing to take responsability for their purchase despite knowing that changes may happen, then they deserve no more than scorn. I am actually surprised that Arenanet released so much free content already despite the negative astmosphere. 

Originally posted by IPolygon
 
With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall.

Quoted for lulz

Originally posted by Tredvolt

Originally posted by IPolygon
 
With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall.

Quoted for lulz

That guy is so bad at math :P

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by knuckledust13

The selling point of GW2 was no gear treadmill. Now they implemented a full fledged gear treadmill, which rewards players who grind more or buy more gems.

 

ArenaNet has basically done everything they said they wouldn't and you still think this is "hysteria"? Just look at their recent take on Ascended gear on the Official forum, they think their playerbase is officially retard.

 

One thing about them I like, tho: the refund policy. I just got my 60 bucks back 2 days ago, couldn't be happier.

I would agree with Arenanet: if their customers aren't willing to take responsability for their purchase despite knowing that changes may happen, then they deserve no more than scorn. I am actually surprised that Arenanet released so much free content already despite the negative astmosphere. 

um,  a few million people payed $60 minimum a piece for that content.  nothing free about it.

Exotic -> Legendary : Optional grind.

Exotic -> Ascended - mandatory grind to achieve max stats.

Do people resurrect strangers only because of the XP amount?

No, but it is kinda nice,isn't it?

It is if as if the game is rewarding you for the playing hte game right.

Do WoW players need to do raids?

Not really, but isn't WoW telling the players "look at these powerfull stats that will make you the most powerful."

So what did legendary items told the player?

Look I'm so shinny, you don't need me but you'll look great.

What doe ascended items say to the players?

Come and get me,I'm the best in slot items.

Do players need ascended items?

If we want we can say we don't even need to play GW2, we don't need to dodge, we don't need to get traits, etc, it is a game so we don't really need anything.

But if we see it like that wtf are we doing in a games forum?

And about Anet being happy by the changes.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Lost-Shores-Arenanet-s-Cry-for-Help

"

First, think of the name. Lost Shores. Lost. Obviously, many of us would agree that Arenanet is starting to lose it’s direction, but is that because they’ve lost control of their game? Keep reading.

Second, and I want to give credit to Maclav for pointing this out. Here are just a few “cries for help” in the latest update:

-A golem named BUY-4373 (4373 is a MS security error about remote attacks)
-An NPC named Subdirector Blingg
-A jumping puzzle named Under New Management
-A dungeon who’s anacronym is “Flavour of the Month”

Also, there’s now a position at Arenanet titled “Monetization Producer”, held by a person who was formerly a producer at Nexon. Nervous yet?

Finally, we have the Consortium, a new group of “traders” introduce to directly compete with the Black Lion Trading Company. We know that the BLTC has been Arenanet’s trademarked cash shop. Could the Consortium be a nod to Nexon coming in to take over?

Put on your tin-foil hats, folks. And maybe it’s time to level criticism where it’s really due.

EDIT: http://www.bizjournals.com/prnewswire/press_releases/2012/06/08/NY21443 – June 8th, 2012 Nexon aquires 14.7% of NCsoft, GW2’s publisher."

Might be all coincidence, just like the jerseys were coincidence...

Originally posted by Banquetto
Anyone who says "ascended is between exotic and legendary" is flat out lying and borderline trolling.

Everyone well knows that legendaries have [b]identical [/b] stats to exotics. Ascended gear has stats up to 40% higher.

You can't directly compare since there are only legendary weapons, and only ascended rings and cloaks, but they are a brand new tier with previously unseen high stats.

Where is your proof on that. Mining the dat file means nothing because there is quite a bit that is not used in the dat file. You have to actually SEE the item to know if it exsists. What I mean by that there is a whole map of Tyria in the DAT file - I mean the WHOLE WORLD. We are only playing a small part of it - does that mean it is valid? All it means they may be thinking ahead or just put all the items/maps in only to limit what can come out.

As I said - taking a wait and see approach.

I don't see a reason to play this game after you get to 80 and get a full set of exotics, there is nothing else to do. You don't have to really do anything to get the exotics either, except buy them off the tp or make them with mats bought off the tp. Legendaries really give me nothing to look forward too unless you like rainbows and unicorns. I have 3 80's now, really didnt have to play too much of the game to get the second and third one to 80 since you get 10 levels for maxing out crafting you can powerlevel your alts for a few gold. All 3 80's have full exotic gear and have no reason to play them now.

WvW has been a ghost town the last few weeks, been on SBI since week 2 after launch. All borderlands have 0 que time and there is nothing to really do when you get in there. I liked the orbs, but instead of fix them they just removed them. The maps are getting boring and they are all the same except EB.

Adding gear would help, to give something to do with my 80's.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Banquetto
Anyone who says "ascended is between exotic and legendary" is flat out lying and borderline trolling.

Everyone well knows that legendaries have [b]identical [/b] stats to exotics. Ascended gear has stats up to 40% higher.

You can't directly compare since there are only legendary weapons, and only ascended rings and cloaks, but they are a brand new tier with previously unseen high stats.

Where is your proof on that. Mining the dat file means nothing because there is quite a bit that is not used in the dat file. You have to actually SEE the item to know if it exsists. What I mean by that there is a whole map of Tyria in the DAT file - I mean the WHOLE WORLD. We are only playing a small part of it - does that mean it is valid? All it means they may be thinking ahead or just put all the items/maps in only to limit what can come out.

 

As I said - taking a wait and see approach.

Actually with the update, legendary items were wrongly updated to ascended stats.

They have been reverted since.

Taking a wait and see approach is ok, denying reality on the other hand isn't.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Legendary-Weapons-Boosted-to-Ascended-Stats

I'm sure a fair number of folks would defend ANet if they started charging $15 a month for expansion content as long as the core game remained B2P.

I mean hey, ANet just said GW2 would be B2P, not all the expansions.  And man, change happens.

Originally posted by IPolygon

Originally posted by Torgrim

What we had before was

Tier 1: Exotic

Tier 3: Legendary

What we got now is

Tier 1: Exotic

Tier 2: Ascended

Tier 3: Legendary

 

Anet just filled in the blanks for those who don't have the time or desire to farm for legendary and I find that was a smart move.

 

 

That is not true. Exotics and Legendaries had the exact same stats. The only difference was the grind to get a Legendary. It was a dumb move, there never was a gap, since Legendaries were purely cosmetical upgrades.

 

With the introduction of a new tier you are outgeared by about 8% or more from those who have reached the next tier. Note that 8% is only one piece, so it culminates to a stat increase of more than 96% (6 trinket slots, 6 armor slots) overall. Of course you will do better than anyone equipped with a lower tier.

 

Needless to say Ascended gear is another grind as someone found out http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13gj0p/ascended_gear_and_infusions_how_to_make_them_and/ . Feel free to make up your mind, but the gear grind is there and probably as good as Aion's. Before the update, grind for gear was mostly optional. You had to save a little karma for full exotics, but that's easy to get and could work towards a cosmetic upgrade. Now with Ascended gear, grind becomes mandatory and Ascended gear will make all prior content obsolete/too easy. Thanks to a dumb down-scaling system.

There was a gap, but it was a time-gap instead of a stat-gap. So, stick a tier in between them that will take a decent amount of time, but less than legendary, and give it a small stat increase to make it worthwhile. Give legendaries a small boost to make them worth while. Now spread your future tiers laterally within these bands and viola! Progression without the treadmill. 

As long as they don't continue to push out tiers with greater stats (which would, imo, introduce the treadmill and make me a sad quaggan) and progress laterally with the ascended and legendaries I believe we'll be fine and they'll be sticking to their philosophy quite nicely. Had ascended gear been available out of the gate there would have been no complaints, nor should there be now.  It's the future I'm going to be keeping an eye on though. The direction they go from here will tell much more than the path they took to get here. So let's not panic... yet. 

Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

Originally posted by Vhaln
This is one hatewagon I haven't joined in on, really.

Can only raise enough energy for so many firestorms per annum locally.  I don't want to waste them.

This one (the mmorpg.com version) seemed to build around a single dedicated individual and a sycophant, last time I bothered to peek in.

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Kalstark

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Content should not be gated by something like gear. It's purely bad game design. People shouldn't be locked out of content period, much less have to go through a linear set of chores before they can get to said content.

And while its only a small set of chores so far, as this game grows eventually there'll be multiple tiers you have to grind before you see new areas.

 

DAoC managed just fine without ever doing that. Raids were gated by SKILL and CHALLENGE, not by artificial stat barriers.

yeah there will be different tiers but you wont have to complete tier 1 to get tto tier 2 as they've already explained and stated, again i just dont get what the problem is

You can't skip levels. its called progression yo

 

Edit: Currently, Legendaries have the same stats as exotics. Anyone who says Legendaries have higher stats don't know what they are talking about.

The community outrage is because the new content does the following

1) Creates gating- Right now, you are limited to the level of fractal you earned. You can't skip levels. On top of this, drops increase in quality and quanity are increased as you level. Leveling fractals is only done by completing a fractal set.

Not only that, but future content will require Agony buffs. Don't expect to do new content (whether dungeons or not) unless you "earned" Ascended armor from the privious dungeon

2) Adds in an insane amount of grind. It appears to take at least 10-15hrs to get your first ring, which may not even be the one you need for your build. 

3) Better gear is tied to RNG. Currently, Mist Essence is a random drop. People have found ways to grind it out, but its still a random drop. 

4) The entire feeling of the community has changed. Peopel are now kicking people out of groups, or refusing them in groups, based on levels

Which would fit very nicely for those who are screaming they want more "progression".

I've never heard that, please source that info.  It seems to me they are adding all kinds of different content to the game.  So, there may be some content that fills that bill but I'd bet only a small portion of it would be that way.  Like, one dungeon out of a "mini-expansion".  You know, like they just did with the Lost Shores.

For those who have played 600+ hours in the last two months, that's a drop in the bucket.  Besides, if it only took an hour, how many people would be bitching they have nothing to do and it was too easy to get the "good" gear?

So is pretty much everything in the game.  So, what's your point?

OMG call the MMO police.  Isn't that what happens in virtually every game?  So what if some guilds want to be exclusive?  There are many, many guilds out there that aren't.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by BattleFelon

I'm asking this as an honest question and not as a trolling attempt. Why does everyone think ascended gear is such a horrible thing for the average GW 2 player? From everything I've read, this gear will only be necessary for a very small section of the game. It won't affect your ability to explore the world, play most of the dungeons, or effectively PVP.

I get that ArenaNet talked a lot of smack about "there is no endgame," but if you looked at GW 1 there were several "elite" areas like Realm of Torment and The Deep/Urgoz's Warren that appealed to a very small number of elite dungeon runners. Heck there was a time with the Factions dungeons where you had to be in an elite guild just to access those areas. None of that affected my ability to beat missions, grind titles, or play in team arenas.

So if you're against the new gear, what is your biggest fear? Is it imbalancing WVW, preventing most players from progressing, or creating a sense of elitism in the community?

Ever since the GW2 manifesto, many players have used the argument for "We just don't want players to grind" as a reason to quit and bash WoW and its clones. Now that GW2 has it too, players are forced to reconcile this. regardless of how major or minor, it exists. Now players are forced to place GW2 into the same category as WoW or to find the difference between WoW's gear grind and GW2's gear grind and find a way to make "We just don't want players to grind" subjective. Unfortunately, "We just don't want players to grind" is not really subjective without operating in some level of denial.

For one, Anet never said "We just don't want players to grind."  Apparently some misguided fools tricked themselves into believing that.  Anet did say "We just don't want players to have to grind".  There is a big difference.  Unlike WoW and its cronies, you are not required to grind constantly for better gear in GW2.  But you can if you want to.

...and....if the gear you're looking for naturally drops while you are playing the "precursor" content, where's the problem?  If Ascended gear, or the materials to make it, drops while you are playing the game - higher end zones, beginning areas of Fractals, etc. - then how is it a grind?

So, tell me, how is "not having to grind" a form of denial?  How does "not having to grind" make GW2 the same as WoW?