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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » MMORPG gets a bad rap

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54 posts found
  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 971

11/20/12 3:38:01 AM#21
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by asmkm22

This community has always been a fairly fringe, MMO hipster one.  For the longest time, there was a ton of rage against WoW for what appeared to be no other reason than it was popular.  Kind of funny actually.

Yeah, mmorpg.com has that small group of very vocal people who jump from game to game only to quit but stay on the game's forum to spew hatred. The WoW hatred is well alive, but so it the hatred against anything new... even more if it's not a sandbox game. Instead of staying away from those games they hate, they take pleasure in trying to annoy their communities. It's those people who breed the bad ambiance you have here quite often.

Most of hatered during the last year at least has come from certain GW2 fans. They were trolling every single game and thread on this site.

  sodade21

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/18/09
Posts: 332

11/20/12 4:07:08 AM#22
People Like to focus on a CON and magnifie it and exaggerate about it. Its a typical human behavor and not just epidemic here in mmorpg.com everywhere you gonna see trolls,whiners,fanboys and more objective people.
sodade21 Xfire Miniprofile
  User Deleted
11/20/12 4:37:29 AM#23
Originally posted by HorrorScope

How many times have we seen, "It's only the posters at MMORPG that act like this", in a negative way.

It's been this way since launch and now even more-so. The heated, negativity that GW2 gets is at it's own official forums. This is may I say, tame here vs the kitten(tm) you will read there.

I say this as this place isn't a total cesspool, not a conspiracy, but a general place for mmo'ers to share opions on all things MMO. Is it over the top sometimes? Yes. Is there shills? Yes. But I have always believed the overall consensus balances itself out and we should allow all the opinions to flow freely, that fall within the R.O.C.

 

Life on mmorpg.com is pretty balanced. I've experienced first-hand elsewhere how moderators are a wee bit trigger happy and where if you dare give (constructive) criticism you're met with a sweet little ban.

It is over the top at times, I agree, but the fence-sitters and devil advocates help balance things out. 

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2398

11/20/12 5:52:19 AM#24
Originally posted by Ikeda

Gotta also take into account that most of us MMO'rs here have been around for a LONG time in the MMO genre so we've seen MANY MANY games come and go.  Whether it be MUDs, EQ, DAOC, WoW, we remember the promises and the failed deliveries.  We've seen games launch, fail, peak, re-peak, comeback, and fail miserably.  Whereas you have many people on the game specific forums who are dedicated "fanboys" to the games, we here tend to champion the genre. 

Like it or not, we all want the BEST game we can get.  We all have different opinions on what that means so we fight and discuss.  Sometimes alittle of both.  And when you think you're right  tempers flare.

This place gets a lot of flak but that's cause we all care for MMOs.  If we didn't, we wouldn't be or discuss here.

/thread

I too love the genre, but while there are a couple of solid MMOs out there I despise the garbage that currently passes for MMOs these days.  I want new horizons to explore and places to find, I want my actions to shape the events around me and give a sense they have some meaning.  What we get is "dailies" and "raiding" which is just the MMORPG equivalent of 'Groundhog Day', which appeals to the chumps and beancounters who think league tables and shiny gear is worth a fart in a hurricane.  Companies cater to the chumps, so we, and the genre, all suffer for it.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18715

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/20/12 6:00:18 AM#25
Meh, I find this site to be far more to my liking than the company sponsored sites I used to frequent, and that the freedom to post what I want pretty good.

Sure, it seems to annoy some folks to no end when their favorite game gets criticized but that's just because the don't enjoy/understand FFA forum PVP.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 811

11/20/12 6:04:02 AM#26
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by eyelolled

There are a lot of people that can't deal with change in a positive manner. There are alot of people that just don't like GW2. There are a lot of people that want to share their negativity to offset the hype the game has. There are a lot of people that just want to be negative. There are a lot of people that just enjoy making a commotion.

 

The problem is that no forum, including this one, has a legitmate reason to stop any of those posters.

 

The people that are on the other end of the spectrum don't have the same initiative to post and make threads, which is unfortunately human nature.  People who are content, don't have to say much. People that are not content, want to voice their displeasure. 

 

So forums in general, are not a meeting of the minds for the majority of the playerbase. They are a meeting of the minds, of the outspoken minority.  

Your entire post is based on the premise that all changes brought by GW2 were 100% positive as if it were fact and that any other perspective is wrong. So when they speak their mind, you see criticism as "a lot of people that just enjoy making a commotion". Even your statement "The problem is that no forum, including this one, has a legitmate reason to stop any of those posters." assumes criticism of your game is actually a problem to begin with.

when i first read eyes post its made me feel some type of way but i didnt want to post on it fearing a warning or ban. Your post is what i wanted to say but not as rude as my responce would have been.

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 811

11/20/12 6:07:09 AM#27
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by asmkm22

This community has always been a fairly fringe, MMO hipster one.  For the longest time, there was a ton of rage against WoW for what appeared to be no other reason than it was popular.  Kind of funny actually.

Yeah, mmorpg.com has that small group of very vocal people who jump from game to game only to quit but stay on the game's forum to spew hatred. The WoW hatred is well alive, but so it the hatred against anything new... even more if it's not a sandbox game. Instead of staying away from those games they hate, they take pleasure in trying to annoy their communities. It's those people who breed the bad ambiance you have here quite often.

Agenda?

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/20/12 6:14:23 AM#28
Originally posted by xAPOCx

Agenda?

I thought the proposal of a supposedly neutral topic within a game forum made that a given.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  User Deleted
11/20/12 6:15:19 AM#29


Gotta also take into account that most of us MMO'rs here have been around for a LONG time in the MMO genre so we've seen MANY MANY games come and go.  Whether it be MUDs, EQ, DAOC, WoW, we remember the promises and the failed deliveries.  We've seen games launch, fail, peak, re-peak, comeback, and fail miserably.


Partially this - it's difficult to win over a market-segment of grizzled MMO veterans. The hype doesn't sell well here no matter how many shills you have making or digging out old accounts.


It's not a very good site to be honest - you have a ton of marketeers, fanboys and very few unbiased, educated opinions or discussions one way or another, due to the cooperate, advertising paid nature of it's existence, not as much the user base itself.

  Naral

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 750

11/20/12 6:22:36 AM#30
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by asmkm22

This community has always been a fairly fringe, MMO hipster one.  For the longest time, there was a ton of rage against WoW for what appeared to be no other reason than it was popular.  Kind of funny actually.

Yeah, mmorpg.com has that small group of very vocal people who jump from game to game only to quit but stay on the game's forum to spew hatred. The WoW hatred is well alive, but so it the hatred against anything new... even more if it's not a sandbox game. Instead of staying away from those games they hate, they take pleasure in trying to annoy their communities. It's those people who breed the bad ambiance you have here quite often.

Yeah, good points. I think, actually, that there is a group of Sandbox Hipsters.  Who will, likely, be annoyed if a new sandbox gets any popularity. We might see with Archage, if it ever gets a good western release.

  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 750

11/20/12 6:26:49 AM#31
GW2 gets flamd more on its own official site ;) the only difference is that mods over there are quick to lock or remove such posts.
  xpiher

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3297

11/20/12 6:41:25 AM#32
Originally posted by Dibdabs
Originally posted by Ikeda

Gotta also take into account that most of us MMO'rs here have been around for a LONG time in the MMO genre so we've seen MANY MANY games come and go.  Whether it be MUDs, EQ, DAOC, WoW, we remember the promises and the failed deliveries.  We've seen games launch, fail, peak, re-peak, comeback, and fail miserably.  Whereas you have many people on the game specific forums who are dedicated "fanboys" to the games, we here tend to champion the genre. 

Like it or not, we all want the BEST game we can get.  We all have different opinions on what that means so we fight and discuss.  Sometimes alittle of both.  And when you think you're right  tempers flare.

This place gets a lot of flak but that's cause we all care for MMOs.  If we didn't, we wouldn't be or discuss here.

/thread

I too love the genre, but while there are a couple of solid MMOs out there I despise the garbage that currently passes for MMOs these days.  I want new horizons to explore and places to find, I want my actions to shape the events around me and give a sense they have some meaning.  What we get is "dailies" and "raiding" which is just the MMORPG equivalent of 'Groundhog Day', which appeals to the chumps and beancounters who think league tables and shiny gear is worth a fart in a hurricane.  Companies cater to the chumps, so we, and the genre, all suffer for it.

Sandbox games: Salem, Darkfall: Unholy Wars, EvE, The Repopulation, Xyon, Greed Monger, Perpetuum, ArchAge, Wurm

 

There you go. MMORPGs were your actions actually impact the world. 


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  User Deleted
11/20/12 6:45:44 AM#33
Originally posted by Naral
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by asmkm22

This community has always been a fairly fringe, MMO hipster one.  For the longest time, there was a ton of rage against WoW for what appeared to be no other reason than it was popular.  Kind of funny actually.

Yeah, mmorpg.com has that small group of very vocal people who jump from game to game only to quit but stay on the game's forum to spew hatred. The WoW hatred is well alive, but so it the hatred against anything new... even more if it's not a sandbox game. Instead of staying away from those games they hate, they take pleasure in trying to annoy their communities. It's those people who breed the bad ambiance you have here quite often.

Yeah, good points. I think, actually, that there is a group of Sandbox Hipsters.  Who will, likely, be annoyed if a new sandbox gets any popularity. We might see with Archage, if it ever gets a good western release.

Mind you, I AM a "sandbox hipster". Give me a good modern sandbox game, where all play styles are viable too, and I'll be one of the people to preorder it.

The problem is that modern developers seem to confuse "sandbox" with "FFA PvP gankfest" these days ;)

This is slightly off topic, but I just wanted to express that I have nothing against the sandbox genre - hell, the first graphical MMORPG I've played and enjoyed a lot, Ultima Online, was a sandbox.

Just like SOME GW2 fans gave a bad image of the game's community on some forums, SOME sandbox fans are known to bash any game they don't like even if it's not really their business, they are just on a crusade. Some fans of other theme park games (SW:TOR, TSW notably) are doing the same too. No matter the game, this is wrong. And to those using "but some GW2 fans did it too" as argument, I say "two wrongs don't make one right", and by pretending just doing "payback", they are actually annoying people who never did anything wrong.

It's like a guy entering a vegetarian restaurant and starting to loudly talk about how a good juicy steak is better than all those crap vegetables people are eating. The only problem is that the troll in the veggie restaurant will be kicked very quickly (real life consequences to being an ass are immediate and often unforgiving, and if the guy doesn't want to leave, a call to the police will make sure he will get some time to think about being an ass in a cell), while a troll on a forum will most likely never be kicked out permanently and will keep on being a nuisance, well protected by his anonymity behind his computer screen.

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 811

11/20/12 6:50:50 AM#34
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Naral
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by asmkm22

This community has always been a fairly fringe, MMO hipster one.  For the longest time, there was a ton of rage against WoW for what appeared to be no other reason than it was popular.  Kind of funny actually.

Yeah, mmorpg.com has that small group of very vocal people who jump from game to game only to quit but stay on the game's forum to spew hatred. The WoW hatred is well alive, but so it the hatred against anything new... even more if it's not a sandbox game. Instead of staying away from those games they hate, they take pleasure in trying to annoy their communities. It's those people who breed the bad ambiance you have here quite often.

Yeah, good points. I think, actually, that there is a group of Sandbox Hipsters.  Who will, likely, be annoyed if a new sandbox gets any popularity. We might see with Archage, if it ever gets a good western release.

Mind you, I AM a "sandbox hipster". Give me a good modern sandbox game, where all play styles are viable too, and I'll be one of the people to preorder it.

The problem is that modern developers seem to confuse "sandbox" with "FFA PvP gankfest" these days ;)

This is slightly off topic, but I just wanted to express that I have nothing against the sandbox genre - hell, the first graphical MMORPG I've played and enjoyed a lot, Ultima Online, was a sandbox.

Just like SOME GW2 fans gave a bad image of the game's community on some forums, SOME sandbox fans are known to bash any game they don't like even if it's not really their business, they are just on a crusade. Some fans of other theme park games (SW:TOR, TSW notably) are doing the same too. No matter the game, this is wrong. And to those using "but some GW2 fans did it too" as argument, I say "two wrongs don't make one right", and by pretending just doing "payback", they are actually annoying people who never did anything wrong.

It's like a guy entering a vegetarian restaurant and starting to loudly talk about how a good juicy steak is better than all those crap vegetables people are eating. The only problem is that the troll in the veggie restaurant will be kicked very quickly (real life consequences to being an ass are immediate and often unforgiving, and if the guy doesn't want to leave, a call to the police will make sure he will get some time to think about being an ass in a cell), while a troll on a forum will most likely never be kicked out permanently and will keep on being a nuisance, well protected by his anonymity behind his computer screen.

Welcome to the internet.

We do have tools to fight back agenst trolls atleast.

 

 

  Vorch

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 757

11/20/12 6:54:04 AM#35
Originally posted by Whitebeards
GW2 gets flamd more on its own official site ;) the only difference is that mods over there are quick to lock or remove such posts.

Bull.

They remove topics in which no conversation can be had, topics that have obvious duplicates, and posts that are widely insulting to other forum members or just off-topic.

Do they make mistakes? I'm sure they do. And everytime that happens, be sure someone on MMORPG will come from GW2Forums back here and scream about how every single negative post is censored.

Seriously, go to the forums and look for critical topics before making this tired and baseless accusation.

 

 

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No, the people on this site are not quite so noble as to want what's best for the genre. Rather, they want to see anything that does not EXACTLY perscribe to their personal vision of perfection FAIL. Even if a game does 95% of what the fans asked for, MMORPG forums tend to place 10 topic a day on the other 5%. If those topics contained constructive criticism, that would be another matter. But for every constructively critical post, there appear to be three or four that are so filled with bile and foolishness that it is hard to sift through the garbage to find any sort of gems.

No, MMORPG players are of a very special variety. We make the perfect the enemy of the good, working together to crush the soul and spirit of almost any game that appears within the genre. This is not some great debate where we want what's best for the genre; this is a very personal quabble where millions of MMORPG "fans" want what's best for THEMSELVES.

After the literally millions of unconstructive and largely negative comments towards their products, I am vexed as to why developers even bother with us.

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  User Deleted
11/20/12 7:06:58 AM#36
Originally posted by xAPOCx

Welcome to the internet.

We do have tools to fight back agenst trolls atleast.

That's an answer not even worth 2 cents.

Some guy gets stabbed in the Bronx, I could also say "Welcome to the Bronx". It would make no sense.

They fact that some things exist on the Internet due to the very nature of it doesn't mean those things are right, and doesn't mean nothing should be done to stop them.

There are tools, but they don't work very well, still because of the anonymity. Got perma banned on mmorpg.com? No big deal, just make a new account and resume the trolling. They can't IP block you since most Internet accesses still have dynamic IPs. In real life, if you push it really too far, you will end with possibly a bleeding nose and/or law intervention, and the interdiction to ever go back to the community you've been an ass to. On the net, no bleeding nose, the law indeed applies but can easily be evaded, so basically there are no consequences for one's actions. And that's what makes bad communities there, nothing else.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/20/12 7:07:22 AM#37
Originally posted by Vorch

No, the people on this site are not quite so noble as to want what's best for the genre. Rather, they want to see anything that does not EXACTLY perscribe to their personal vision of perfection FAIL.

There is an element of schadenfreude. There's an element of basic everyday trolling. There are fanboys and (if you're paranoid enough) even shills.  There are anti-fanboys, haters who just attack "hype" instinctively...particularly hypeoriginating from fanboys.  Fanboys, naturally, adopt the same tactic too.

There's the shocked faux innocence "who, me? I'm not a hater, omg."  There's the unapologetic pot stirrers, cruising from topic to topic, particularly active ones, dropping grenades.

Did I miss anything?

Here's the important part: Every one of these guys considers himself the Hero, and the other guy the Enemy.  They're all polarizing right-fighters.

How many games do we have to observe the same patterns?

 

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

11/20/12 7:11:04 AM#38

Everyone has an agenda, it's called having an opinion. My answer is not GW2 specific, since I don't care about the game at this point. The thing is, mmorpg has always been a refuge for the alternative. You don't come to this site to hear praises about your favorite mmorpg, you already play that and having fun there. You come here when you're bored with it, or you're having issues and you want to see if others share those issues.

Or you come here when you want to find a new game. So in this regard, mainstream games don't really need "defending" in mmorpg, they are already successful. What needs encouragement and a wave of support is the differientation and alternative ideas. In this regard, GW2 is a mainstream title, so they do take some extra critisism due to that. The main reason that any flak is directed towards GW2 though is due to the fans that were trolling hard every other game section on these forums for months. That kind of unappealing behaviour for so long a period, was bound to leave a bad taste on a lot of people.

  User Deleted
11/20/12 7:16:27 AM#39
Originally posted by Xasapis

My answer is not GW2 specific, since I don't care about the game at this point.

A pretty good example of what I was saying. Someone who doesn't care about the game, self admitedly, yet still posts here almost daily.

Thanks for that free example to illustrate my previous posts.

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

11/20/12 7:30:36 AM#40
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Xasapis

My answer is not GW2 specific, since I don't care about the game at this point.

A pretty good example of what I was saying. Someone who doesn't care about the game, self admitedly, yet still posts here almost daily.

Thanks for that free example to illustrate my previous posts.

At this point of time I don't care about the game. But I have played the game extensively, had fun with it and, well, I moved on. I don't find it a bad game, I certainly got my money's worth of fun with it. Of course, it wasn't the second coming one would expect with that collossal piece of marketing the manifesto was, but that's another issue.

Besides, this is not about GW2, or not just about GW2 if you like. In one time or another, threads like this appeared for the majority of mmorpgs listed on this site. Ie, how X mmorpg is getting flamed so much here as opposed to the actual status of their subscribers base.

Do you really need to be so defensive over GW2, all the time?

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