Originally posted by coretex666

Originally posted by Benedikt

 

Second - I hate idea of forced drink/eat/sleep (especially how it is done in most sandbox games, where it is based also on time you are offline). I think much better way than punish people for not doing it is the way themepark games do  it, to give bonuses/buffs for eating, drinking etc.

The second point is quite subjective. I would like the game to be realistic which means you need to eat. I did mention that quality of some of your abilities may be related to what you eat / drink, how much have you eaten, etc.

yeah, i know there are people like you, who like "realism in games", but what you are doing is more or less FORCING a lot of people to do things they dont like so they could enjoy rest of the game. come on - its a GAME, it is supposed to be fun and relaxing :)

humz i was writing this post about how i did not like your #7 but after thinking things trough. apart from the eating. i cant remember havind alot of potions on me in past MMO's i was always acompanied by a healer, grouping was mandatory. im sitll not sure about your drinking and eating part tho. if it would take too much time to actually do then i won't like it very much.

your #9 death penalty is good but i would say limit it to exp. wich brings me at #6 id like to have some levels. skill leveling can stay but i don't think you can do without levels in a game as extensive as this wich is skill (skilllevel) and gear based.

edit: levels imo should have a cap but it should be extremely hard to lvl up and lvl skills up. dying (from npc's not PC's) would give you a harsh penalty (10% exp of your current level to be paid back into the penalty at a rate of 50% of all gained exp)

i really like your game but if you want too remove all forms of NPC's the only thing you hold is crafting and PvP. Im not really a PvP nut.

Dont know if you are still around OP but there is a major flaw imo in your idea, why would anyone play the game to make planks. It might sound good when you write it but people wont enjoy logging into the game to make planks for a long period of time. Realism does not mean it's good game design and while I share some of your ideas I do not think you thought it through on a player level. Also locking players into factions will not work out well for you im quite sure because forcing players into factions is not something the sandbox community enjoys much. At least you should have a outlaw faction to let people fight anyone they want (ArcheAge style).

Originally posted by coretex666

I know that Darkfall is a sandbox which may be somewhat close to what I describe. I personally have never forced myself to spend some more time in the game since it was just pain to play it for me.

However, as people often mention, Darkfall is just a big PvP arena. I dont want the game to be just about PvP. Consequently, I am suggesting division of the land which would be guarded between the nations  and then have a common land.

What level of specialization is there in Darkfall? I doubt it is anywhere near to what I have in mind.

Is there the political system I described in place?

I think that Darkfall in the end is just a big PvP arena. The game I tried to describe is much less about PvP.

If it ressembles Darkfall, then I should make it more specific, hence longer :D

 

Three words not including these six.

Age Of Wushu.

Ill add this as well.

Get yourself into the second western beta starting on the 20th December. They are allowing anyone who joins the site a ten hour beta session, after that you will need key. Ill have eight next monday and a few friends will have some we will post on the AOW section on this site.

Two have already been claimed but the other eight ill just post in the beta thread, first come first served.

Originally posted by Benedikt

Originally posted by coretex666

Originally posted by Benedikt

 

Second - I hate idea of forced drink/eat/sleep (especially how it is done in most sandbox games, where it is based also on time you are offline). I think much better way than punish people for not doing it is the way themepark games do  it, to give bonuses/buffs for eating, drinking etc.

The second point is quite subjective. I would like the game to be realistic which means you need to eat. I did mention that quality of some of your abilities may be related to what you eat / drink, how much have you eaten, etc.

yeah, i know there are people like you, who like "realism in games", but what you are doing is more or less FORCING a lot of people to do things they dont like so they could enjoy rest of the game. come on - its a GAME, it is supposed to be fun and relaxing :)

I know. I stated at the beginning that the game would probably be niche. It isnt really aiming for masses. People who want something relaxing play WoW after school / work which is fine.

Originally posted by xeniar

humz i was writing this post about how i did not like your #7 but after thinking things trough. apart from the eating. i cant remember havind alot of potions on me in past MMO's i was always acompanied by a healer, grouping was mandatory. im sitll not sure about your drinking and eating part tho. if it would take too much time to actually do then i won't like it very much.

your #9 death penalty is good but i would say limit it to exp. wich brings me at #6 id like to have some levels. skill leveling can stay but i don't think you can do without levels in a game as extensive as this wich is skill (skilllevel) and gear based.

edit: levels imo should have a cap but it should be extremely hard to lvl up and lvl skills up. dying (from npc's not PC's) would give you a harsh penalty (10% exp of your current level to be paid back into the penalty at a rate of 50% of all gained exp)

i really like your game but if you want too remove all forms of NPC's the only thing you hold is crafting and PvP. Im not really a PvP nut.

I am afraid that character levels would make it a themepark. I do agree that if you have levels, there should be a cap which is very hard to reach.

I probably should specify that by removing NPCs, I mean characters, like vendors or basically any non player characters which are on your side. I would definitely like to keep mobs in the game, so that there would be regular PVE, just not in form of raids or instances as we know it from themepark games.

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by coretex666

I know that Darkfall is a sandbox which may be somewhat close to what I describe. I personally have never forced myself to spend some more time in the game since it was just pain to play it for me.

However, as people often mention, Darkfall is just a big PvP arena. I dont want the game to be just about PvP. Consequently, I am suggesting division of the land which would be guarded between the nations  and then have a common land.

What level of specialization is there in Darkfall? I doubt it is anywhere near to what I have in mind.

Is there the political system I described in place?

I think that Darkfall in the end is just a big PvP arena. The game I tried to describe is much less about PvP.

If it ressembles Darkfall, then I should make it more specific, hence longer :D

 

Three words not including these six.

 

Age Of Wushu.

 

Ill add this as well.

Get yourself into the second western beta starting on the 20th December. They are allowing anyone who joins the site a ten hour beta session, after that you will need key. Ill have eight next monday and a few friends will have some we will post on the AOW section on this site.

Two have already been claimed but the other eight ill just post in the beta thread, first come first served.

 

AoW may be an interesting game. However, I did watch some videos and visually, it is not very attractive for me. I understand that MMOs are not so much about graphics, but the design seemed "too Asian" for me.

I may give it a try to see if the game is so good that it will make me like it in spite of it.

Originally posted by Kuro1n

Dont know if you are still around OP but there is a major flaw imo in your idea, why would anyone play the game to make planks. It might sound good when you write it but people wont enjoy logging into the game to make planks for a long period of time. Realism does not mean it's good game design and while I share some of your ideas I do not think you thought it through on a player level. Also locking players into factions will not work out well for you im quite sure because forcing players into factions is not something the sandbox community enjoys much. At least you should have a outlaw faction to let people fight anyone they want (ArcheAge style).

The outlaw faction seems to be a good point. Maybe it would be good to give players the ability to attack players of their own faction / nation and have some sort of "penalty" for that. You may become a murderer and the players who choose to be guards (kind of like historical police :) ) would be getting experience and rewards from the city treasury for killing them.

May be worth considering letting the players basically leave their nation and start a new one. However, it would be considered something like a rebellion and the nation would be after them, so that creating a new nation and keeping it in longer term would be very difficult.

I will give it a thought and add it to the concept.

I am kind of surprised nobody likes the "must eat / drink" idea.

Guess I should remove it :)

Well seems you are still active OP, I'm currently working on a project has some of these aspects and yes locking players into something is generally quite bad.

EDIT: and the eat and drink idea is something we use.

Originally posted by Kuro1n

Well seems you are still active OP, I'm currently working on a project has some of these aspects and yes locking players into something is generally quite bad.

 

EDIT: and the eat and drink idea is something we use.

I dont think the necessity to eat and drink has to be designed in such a way that it would annoy the players. However, the responses so far indicate that players do not like this idea.

I was hoping it would contribute to the realism I was trying to achieve.

Originally posted by coretex666

I am kind of surprised nobody likes the "must eat / drink" idea.

Guess I should remove it :)

I'm not uncomfortable with it.  As long as eating / drinking has a reason to exist in the game mechanics.

After all, we stop at a crafter and repair our gear.  Why not stop at the Inn and grab a sandwich and a pint?

From a conversation a long while back, a dev told me not to "punish" people for not doing something, but rather "reward" them for doing it.  Then it's their idea.

Originally posted by XAPGames

Originally posted by coretex666

I am kind of surprised nobody likes the "must eat / drink" idea.

Guess I should remove it :)

 

I'm not uncomfortable with it.  As long as eating / drinking has a reason to exist in the game mechanics.

 

After all, we stop at a crafter and repair our gear.  Why not stop at the Inn and grab a sandwich and a pint?

 

From a conversation a long while back, a dev told me not to "punish" people for not doing something, but rather "reward" them for doing it.  Then it's their idea.

Depends very much on what type of a game you are trying to make.

1. Medieval light fantasy setting - lets say medieval with some basic magics
I'm ok with this. Preferably without robots, guns and tanks. A mix of say 1000 AD and LoTR.

2. Two nations
As said before, 3 is better for balancing reasons.

3. 20% of the map for one nation, 20% for the other one and 60% the common land
Agreed with. Except divided into 3, so say 15% each.

4. Realistic Drops
Also agreed with. It makjes no sense for a maggot to drop a full scale armour :)

5. Profession specialization
I think harvesting professions wouldn't be that hard to levell - but crafting and repairing wil be. I always wondered why crafting would be done away with as an afterthought in most mmorpg's. Look at GW2: you can get master crafter within an hour and everyone is a max level crafter.

The way to master crafter would take a very long time and you would improve in things like:
Efficiency: craft things a) faster b) with a better chance of a better quality and b) needing less materials
Quality: a master would be able to make some exceptional stuff an apprentice can't.
So crafting something doesn't happen "on the fly" but will require some time. Perhaps you can be afk or even offline but I liked EVE's way of handling manufacturing. In a similar fashion, a good weapon may have to be in the forge for 2 days, a wooden sword may be made within 1 hour. A magic weapon may take days to complete and require erfforts from jewelcrafters, blacksmiths and such.

Next to that, I don't agree with weapons that dissolve into nothingness after a while. Let's make them "broken" and let crafters be able to repair it, which will require time and some additional materials.
It will give crafters additional work and options.

Urbanisation: this will only work if people can't travel by waypoints and jumpgates, so you're basically proposing manual travel. Although I'd like that, it can also scare off a lot of players that don't have time to travel for 30 minutes. I know travel in EVE was a chore, although fgriffin travel in WoW was acceptable. One could also use the burden system from Elder Scrolls, so you're limited in what you can carry around.

6. No character levels
Not sure what to think of this. Although it could be fun if you have no idea how strong your oponent is and you can only make a rough estimate if you look at his/her gear.

7. Realism - You have to eat, drink, sleep
Basicallky ok with this. But again: if may scare off more casual players that don't have that much time. Although it would be fun if you haven't played for a week to find your character being starved and asking for food when you logon! :)

8. Conflict - The nations would be in war
No real opinion on this. I just want to emphasize that an average sandbox game often just revolves around PvP.

9. Death penalty
That's a major issue. The thing is that if people would have permadeath, they hardly would engage in PvP (except with low level characters). It would become a rather peaceful world where no-one would risk his/her life witout any good reason (like our daily life reality).
If you don't want a PvP run world, you could increase DP by (as you suggested) losing all your gear, a 10% stat decrease for an hour after each death. And so on.     
 

Not sure about the sandbox idea, really. I´d rather have it a mix of sanbox elements (making villages and such) and PvE (dungeons, open world quets) because a lot of people don't really like PvP that much. It should be possible to just be a PvE player and still have enough to do.

Originally posted by Findariel

1. Medieval light fantasy setting - lets say medieval with some basic magics
I'm ok with this. Preferably without robots, guns and tanks. A mix of say 1000 AD and LoTR.

2. Two nations
As said before, 3 is better for balancing reasons.

3. 20% of the map for one nation, 20% for the other one and 60% the common land
Agreed with. Except divided into 3, so say 15% each.

4. Realistic Drops
Also agreed with. It makjes no sense for a maggot to drop a full scale armour :)

5. Profession specialization
I think harvesting professions wouldn't be that hard to levell - but crafting and repairing wil be. I always wondered why crafting would be done away with as an afterthought in most mmorpg's. Look at GW2: you can get master crafter within an hour and everyone is a max level crafter.

The way to master crafter would take a very long time and you would improve in things like:
Efficiency: craft things a) faster b) with a better chance of a better quality and b) needing less materials
Quality: a master would be able to make some exceptional stuff an apprentice can't.
So crafting something doesn't happen "on the fly" but will require some time. Perhaps you can be afk or even offline but I liked EVE's way of handling manufacturing. In a similar fashion, a good weapon may have to be in the forge for 2 days, a wooden sword may be made within 1 hour. A magic weapon may take days to complete and require erfforts from jewelcrafters, blacksmiths and such.

Next to that, I don't agree with weapons that dissolve into nothingness after a while. Let's make them "broken" and let crafters be able to repair it, which will require time and some additional materials.
It will give crafters additional work and options.

Urbanisation: this will only work if people can't travel by waypoints and jumpgates, so you're basically proposing manual travel. Although I'd like that, it can also scare off a lot of players that don't have time to travel for 30 minutes. I know travel in EVE was a chore, although fgriffin travel in WoW was acceptable. One could also use the burden system from Elder Scrolls, so you're limited in what you can carry around.

6. No character levels
Not sure what to think of this. Although it could be fun if you have no idea how strong your oponent is and you can only make a rough estimate if you look at his/her gear.

7. Realism - You have to eat, drink, sleep
Basicallky ok with this. But again: if may scare off more casual players that don't have that much time. Although it would be fun if you haven't played for a week to find your character being starved and asking for food when you logon! :)

8. Conflict - The nations would be in war
No real opinion on this. I just want to emphasize that an average sandbox game often just revolves around PvP.

9. Death penalty
That's a major issue. The thing is that if people would have permadeath, they hardly would engage in PvP (except with low level characters). It would become a rather peaceful world where no-one would risk his/her life witout any good reason (like our daily life reality).
If you don't want a PvP run world, you could increase DP by (as you suggested) losing all your gear, a 10% stat decrease for an hour after each death. And so on.     
 

Not sure about the sandbox idea, really. I´d rather have it a mix of sanbox elements (making villages and such) and PvE (dungeons, open world quets) because a lot of people don't really like PvP that much. It should be possible to just be a PvE player and still have enough to do.

 Thanks for the review.

Some interesting thoughts there.