Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by bansan

Originally posted by xpiher

*snip*

Also, your math is wrong. Once the entire set, and entire set of ascended armor will be nearly 40% better than an entire set of Exotics. Futhermoe, its currently 5 points better, not two.  

Your math is wrong.  If one piece of ascended is 8% better than one piece of exotic, then 5 pieces of ascended aggregate will be 8% better than 5 pieces of exotic aggregate. 

Go talk to your math professor.  You don't take the difference in one piece of gear and times it by the pieces to get the total difference.  That's fuzzy math.

If you dislike something, and you present it in a way that is totally wrong, people won't respect your opinion.  I for one will take any opinion you have with at least 40% graint of salt, because your dislike is based on aba daba doo.

I didn't do that math, it came from a forum post that showed how the sacling effects, if extroplated to all pieces of gear, is equal to roughly 40% better than whats currently in game. But its not the stats that I have problem with, it could be 1 point difference it wouldn't change what I hate about the change. Its the fact that they may add more gear that and gate content to with the gear being previous gear. I would have the same problem with the system if the stats were identical, but the Agony resistence got compounded and was used for the new content as well. 

They are not gating anything because EVERYONE will start the dungeon without infusions and ANYONE who does the dungeon will get AT LEAST ONE infused piece of gear. So really the only problem here is if you want to do the dungeon after the next 6 months and you've never done it before, you'd have to find a few more people who are also new or who want to play on characters that haven't gone through the dungeon yet so that you don't face things that require infused gear.

The problem I have isn't with this PATCH as I've said plenty of time. Its with the precendent that it sets for patches after this one. Will the next dungeon require me to start with the ascended gear? 

That is your view on what they said. It is not mine and as others have said, we shall wait and see. I find all of this gnashing of teeth funny about a game that HAS NO SUB fee - pay once play forever. I could see if people were actually putting money each month for this but to hold A.Net to a different standard than sub companies is sad. I mean SWTOR, has now gone F2P, really P2W because they are limiting skill bars, etc - you have to pay for more of them. Why aren't people screaming more about that?

I find it very disheartening that there seems to be double standards at play here.

Originally posted by Raekon

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Originally posted by Raekon

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Originally posted by xpiher Didn't answer anything. See my post on real answer

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Why you people don't read properly is really beyond me: - Ascended gear = agony resistance - Agony abilities only coming from certain enemies in certain areas This already answers that you can even stay in your exotics and enjoy future updates as long as you don't go after these types of mobs in the parts of the areas they are. You can even risk to go there with a group that has ascended gear and try your luck as also maybe survive if you manage to stay out of harm (or interupt when they try to use this skill on you). Was the  same against the Mursaat in GW1. You could survive even without infused armor but it was very hard cause you could die very fast through their agony skill. Same thing applies here. The main difference is only that in GW1 you could infuse your current armor and only need to reinfuse if you changed to a other one while in GW2 you need the ascended armor and it's defensive ability slot for that. Hope this makes it a bit more understandable.

---

You would be right IF THEY DIDN'T ADD HIGHER STATS TO ASCENDED GEAR and then say "We will continue with this type of progression in the future" Its not clear at all. This isn't the same as Agony from GW1 either. In GW1 you could Ascend any gear in the game. This gear is tied to RNG as well. 

 

 Higher stats comparison in PVE

You can live longer than a level 11 in a level 11 area if you play properly and can withstand more damage after you got scaled down then someone with lower armor - You can also do so in level 80 areas.

Higher stats in dungeons

Applies to the same comment I did about PvE as long as you are playing equally good to the guy with the lower armor

On the top of it your whole team benefits from it which is a good thing.

Higher stats in WvsWvsW

If you get zerged by a team you will die the same way others with lower armor die.

If you come across a very skilled player than you, you will die even in a 1vs1 no matter if he has blue gear on or not because of the scaling and the buffs depending on how good your server does

Higher stats in spvp

not existant so it won't make any difference

Difference between exotics and ascended

- gem slot vs infusion slot - Stats given by gems, runes and sigils are base stats inascendant items.

- ascended higher stats in vs exotic more flexibility - more flexibility at the cost of lower power.

- ascended boosts 3 stats only vs exotics can boost up to 6 stats through the upgrade slot at the same time -ascended can boost 6 stats as well, vide picture.

The design decision was good because

- it gives level 80s more to do -doesn't need stats for that.

- it doesn't break the game - changes game core filosophy

- it doesn't make exotics or legendaries useless unless you are up against opponents that are using agony - legendaries are fine, exoctics are less powerful.

- the addition isn't random but rather connected to the lore which opens more possibilities for future content --no reason it had to require a slot.

- adding new gear with new looks  and more skins gives people that like to collect more to do aswell (yeah I know they could do that with new skins only aswell) exactly

- the exotics and all the other armor have an upgrade slot, replacing these with a infusion after millions of people are having on would lead only to issues that the developers and players would have to endure - you could make it an aplied property, a la GW1, you could make it a rank

Adding a new item instead is giving them more control over it, less coding issues which means less players affected if at all. - they are upgrading legendary items aswell, could be another alternative method

There is no sugar coating it - Arenanet added stats because, and they say so, want to give progression players more progression.

Of course progression players will get Ascendant items and demand more progression stats.

What will Anet do then?

(that is assuming the progression types actually come back for a +10% boost everyone else can get aswell -progression types always strike me as exclusivist, they want the best items in the hands of only a minority).

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by bansan

Originally posted by xpiher

*snip*

Also, your math is wrong. Once the entire set, and entire set of ascended armor will be nearly 40% better than an entire set of Exotics. Futhermoe, its currently 5 points better, not two.  

Your math is wrong.  If one piece of ascended is 8% better than one piece of exotic, then 5 pieces of ascended aggregate will be 8% better than 5 pieces of exotic aggregate. 

Go talk to your math professor.  You don't take the difference in one piece of gear and times it by the pieces to get the total difference.  That's fuzzy math.

If you dislike something, and you present it in a way that is totally wrong, people won't respect your opinion.  I for one will take any opinion you have with at least 40% graint of salt, because your dislike is based on aba daba doo.

I didn't do that math, it came from a forum post that showed how the sacling effects, if extroplated to all pieces of gear, is equal to roughly 40% better than whats currently in game. But its not the stats that I have problem with, it could be 1 point difference it wouldn't change what I hate about the change. Its the fact that they may add more gear that and gate content to with the gear being previous gear. I would have the same problem with the system if the stats were identical, but the Agony resistence got compounded and was used for the new content as well. 

They are not gating anything because EVERYONE will start the dungeon without infusions and ANYONE who does the dungeon will get AT LEAST ONE infused piece of gear. So really the only problem here is if you want to do the dungeon after the next 6 months and you've never done it before, you'd have to find a few more people who are also new or who want to play on characters that haven't gone through the dungeon yet so that you don't face things that require infused gear.

The problem I have isn't with this PATCH as I've said plenty of time. Its with the precendent that it sets for patches after this one. Will the next dungeon require me to start with the ascended gear? 

That is your view on what they said. It is not mine and as others have said, we shall wait and see. I find all of this gnashing of teeth funny about a game that HAS NO SUB fee - pay once play forever. I could see if people were actually putting money each month for this but to hold A.Net to a different standard than sub companies is sad. I mean SWTOR, has now gone F2P, really P2W because they are limiting skill bars, etc - you have to pay for more of them. Why aren't people screaming more about that?

 

I find it very disheartening that there seems to be double standards at play here.

There isn't a double standard. I quit AoC for them changing their play model as well. I also quit rift because they had gear grind tread mill as well. I don't play other MMOs because they have gear grind treadmills. This is why I never bought Secret World. 

The only reason I bought GW2 is becaus I thought it would be a themepark game that didn't have hamster wheel gear treadmill progression. If they continue making content updates that require prior gained gear and then introduce stronger gear AGAIN they went against everything they advertised the game to be. They will be pulling a FUNCOM. 

I feel their answers are open ended. As I interpret the information they've provided us, they're adding this as a middle tier between exotic and legendary. I only hope this feature isn't as poorly implemented as the dread/radiance feature from LoTRO. Given ArenaNet's track record, I can't see it being poorly implemented. I also hope this isn't a start of tiers like seen in World of Warcraft. The will benefit from additional rewards to obtain if the following conditions can be met:

1. There is only one tier of this type of gear. Should there be another, the player should be able to convert their older tier gear into higher tiers.

2. The level cap should remain unchanged. Raising the level cap would invalidate not only the original tier but all tiers added for level 80.

3. Content designed for this gear should be completable without, albeit at a higher difficulty. The difference in difficulty should be comparable to the difference between explorable and story modes in dungeons.

Those are my thoughts on the issue.

Originally posted by botrytis
That is your view on what they said. It is not mine and as others have said, we shall wait and see. I find all of this gnashing of teeth funny about a game that HAS NO SUB fee - pay once play forever. I could see if people were actually putting money each month for this but to hold A.Net to a different standard than sub companies is sad. I mean SWTOR, has now gone F2P, really P2W because they are limiting skill bars, etc - you have to pay for more of them. Why aren't people screaming more about that?

 

I find it very disheartening that there seems to be double standards at play here.

Double standards?

Do I care about SWTOR? Or WOW?

We, guild wars 2 players are judging guild wars 2 by the standards set by Anet with both GW1 and GW2.

I'm not screaming about SWTOR cause I've never gave a rat's ass about that game, f2p, p2p, p2w, crap, whatever, I could care less.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Skymourne

i'm sorry but that is a great answer.  I'm not sure how much more you want from them without them spoiling the entire event.  You guys aren't happy about ascended gear.  it's not that big of a deal.

 

Umm I want to know if Ascended gear is the final tier or not. I want to know if I'll need Ascended gear and the agony resistence to even have a chance at completing the next content. I want to know if my gear will be outdated in the future.

Its not a real answer since they don't address the communities concern about gating content, gear grind treadmill, or gear orrinatated character progression. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EVENT

You should take note that Legendary is still the final tier. Ascended comes before Legendary. 

 

What I see happening is this: Ascended gear (and probably future Legendary armor and items) has infusion slots. These slots allow for a lateral progression through various new content (such as the new dungeon and future ones), giving players more gear to chase after and more infusions to find to enhance their gear. So right now, the new dungeon has infusions to counter Agony, plus new Ascended armors. So you get yourself, eventually, a set of Ascended armor and the infusions to counter the current dungeon. Later on, a new dungeon comes out with new Ascended armor and a new type of infusion. The armor is comparable to the current ascended statwise but obviously is a new skin. You have a choice, chase down the new set of ascended gear or get the latest infusions and modify your existing ascended gear for that dungeon. The "gear treadmill" isn't a permanent uphill grind. Instead it's a choice... do I want that new set with comparable stats or am I happy with the current and willing to upgrade the infusions on it instead for the new dungeon?

 

Agony will likely be specific to this dungeon only. A new condition and related infusions will be likely for new dungeons, as well as new sets of armor that you can get if you choose to do so. Legendaries will always remain top-tier, as they are now.

That is all fine except for all the mistakes it contain.

The thing is that Legendary tier is that crazy tier, only hardcore people will go for.

According to Anet own filosophy, that lasted for about 7 years until a couple of days ago, items that required crazy amount of grinds should not give a statiscal reward to not force players to go for it. Only cosmetic.

Of course it isn't lateral progression.

Apparently everyone defending the Ascendant items have a reading disorder - they read infusion and then proceed to ignore the Ascendant item given as example, that has higher stats than any exotic equivalent. They also ignore Linsey own words where she says the new Ascendant items will have the inherent effects found in jewels, runes and sigilsas base.They even ignore that Legendary will be upgraded to match Ascendant stats because Legenary are supposed to be on par with BiS items.

Somehow people read (sure they did) this and it for them this equate Exotic=Ascendant, lateral choice, etc.

Now, being gimped isn't a real choice.

No one's ignoring anything. Ascended is the tier between exotic and legendary. It'll be harder to get than exotics (I doubt you'll be able to craft it, but we'll see...), and of course legendary harder than that still. Future ascended sets will be comparable in stats to the new ones, hence the lateral progression between ascended sets (and infusions). Legendary armors will undoubtedly have an infusion slot as well, allowing people to use them in the assorted dungeons by changing infusions. 

Just like all exotics are comparable in stats, all ascendeds will be as well (to each other) and all legendary will be when compared to other legendaries. That's the lateral progression... adding additional sets of ascended, exotic, legendary etc. without the power creep but with the specialization that infusions will bring. There's still a lot we don't know, but it's definitely not a treadmill being developed.

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Skymourne

i'm sorry but that is a great answer.  I'm not sure how much more you want from them without them spoiling the entire event.  You guys aren't happy about ascended gear.  it's not that big of a deal.

 

Umm I want to know if Ascended gear is the final tier or not. I want to know if I'll need Ascended gear and the agony resistence to even have a chance at completing the next content. I want to know if my gear will be outdated in the future.

Its not a real answer since they don't address the communities concern about gating content, gear grind treadmill, or gear orrinatated character progression. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EVENT

You'll find out answers to those questions when event starts... Ain't that a bitch, eh? :D

How is it NOT ruining the event and this new "expansion" if you know all the answers before the actual content gets out? :D

 

Well, my biggest concern was the availability of this ascended gear being tied to only 1 dungeon.... Glad that's cleared up. :D

No I won't. As I have made clear to other in this thread, I won't know the answer until ANET either

1) Says they will or won't add more tiers of gear/upgrades that leads to gating of content or gear treadmill by adding more gear with better stats 

or

2) ANET launches a patch with progression with or without the gear treadmill or gated content

 

"Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two."

So, that doesn't answer your question about treadmill? It's not their INTENTION, so it means, they don't know what the future holds but for now they won't do such things... I think it does answer the question, but you don't want the answer as it is, you want a crystal globe and look into the future. xD

They also said:

"As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression. Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level. Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later."

It is all there, Anet is adding item progression to satisfy the players that need item progression.

When people said there was nothing to do after hitting level 80 and getting exotics, i sincerely replied there was.

Apparently others replied the same but they were lying, whatever rocks the boat works because they involved in forum PvPing, so what matters is choosing a team and defend it or attack the other team no matter what.

Ah, and what Massive Jump between Exotic and Legendary? 0 stats!

Wait, wait it is even better, they added a new tier of items requiring time and resources to obtain to make it easier to get legendaries.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Skymourne

i'm sorry but that is a great answer.  I'm not sure how much more you want from them without them spoiling the entire event.  You guys aren't happy about ascended gear.  it's not that big of a deal.

 

Umm I want to know if Ascended gear is the final tier or not. I want to know if I'll need Ascended gear and the agony resistence to even have a chance at completing the next content. I want to know if my gear will be outdated in the future.

Its not a real answer since they don't address the communities concern about gating content, gear grind treadmill, or gear orrinatated character progression. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EVENT

You should take note that Legendary is still the final tier. Ascended comes before Legendary. 

 

What I see happening is this: Ascended gear (and probably future Legendary armor and items) has infusion slots. These slots allow for a lateral progression through various new content (such as the new dungeon and future ones), giving players more gear to chase after and more infusions to find to enhance their gear. So right now, the new dungeon has infusions to counter Agony, plus new Ascended armors. So you get yourself, eventually, a set of Ascended armor and the infusions to counter the current dungeon. Later on, a new dungeon comes out with new Ascended armor and a new type of infusion. The armor is comparable to the current ascended statwise but obviously is a new skin. You have a choice, chase down the new set of ascended gear or get the latest infusions and modify your existing ascended gear for that dungeon. The "gear treadmill" isn't a permanent uphill grind. Instead it's a choice... do I want that new set with comparable stats or am I happy with the current and willing to upgrade the infusions on it instead for the new dungeon?

 

Agony will likely be specific to this dungeon only. A new condition and related infusions will be likely for new dungeons, as well as new sets of armor that you can get if you choose to do so. Legendaries will always remain top-tier, as they are now.

That is all fine except for all the mistakes it contain.

The thing is that Legendary tier is that crazy tier, only hardcore people will go for.

According to Anet own filosophy, that lasted for about 7 years until a couple of days ago, items that required crazy amount of grinds should not give a statiscal reward to not force players to go for it. Only cosmetic.

Of course it isn't lateral progression.

Apparently everyone defending the Ascendant items have a reading disorder - they read infusion and then proceed to ignore the Ascendant item given as example, that has higher stats than any exotic equivalent. They also ignore Linsey own words where she says the new Ascendant items will have the inherent effects found in jewels, runes and sigilsas base.They even ignore that Legendary will be upgraded to match Ascendant stats because Legenary are supposed to be on par with BiS items.

Somehow people read (sure they did) this and it for them this equate Exotic=Ascendant, lateral choice, etc.

Now, being gimped isn't a real choice.

No one's ignoring anything. Ascended is the tier between exotic and legendary. It'll be harder to get than exotics (I doubt you'll be able to craft it, but we'll see...), and of course legendary harder than that still. Future ascended sets will be comparable in stats to the new ones, hence the lateral progression between ascended sets (and infusions). Legendary armors will undoubtedly have an infusion slot as well, allowing people to use them in the assorted dungeons by changing infusions. 

 

Just like all exotics are comparable in stats, all ascendeds will be as well (to each other) and all legendary will be when compared to other legendaries. That's the lateral progression... adding additional sets of ascended, exotic, legendary etc. without the power creep but with the specialization that infusions will bring. There's still a lot we don't know, but it's definitely not a treadmill being developed.

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

I have been playing since launch and have supported Anet through the cash shop, I'm pretty dissapointed with the new gear that's coming in this update, which is pretty much better than exotics. It's only rings and a back for now, but the rest will be added in due time, along with offensive/defensive infusion orbs this will be the top tier gear and the question will be what's next, when will this gear be outdated for the new tier.

I play this MMO because of the even playing field and to do what I feel like fun, now I have to go into this dungeon to get this gear to stay competitive in WvW, other dungeons and general PvE, not happy at all about this to the point that I'm not logging as much as I used to.

There's plenty of quotes from devs where they talk how they wouldn't do this, and how would end gear would be cosmetic mainly, where the gear grind would be left for other MMOs, yet they go back on their word now to please the progression players is pretty disheartening, they've lost the trust of many including me here.

Originally posted by xposeidon

I have been playing since launch and have supported Anet through the cash shop, I'm pretty dissapointed with the new gear that's coming in this update, which is pretty much better than exotics. It's only rings and a back for now, but the rest will be added in due time, along with offensive/defensive infusion orbs this will be the top tier gear and the question will be what's next, when will this gear be outdated for the new tier.

I play this MMO because of the even playing field and to do what I feel like fun, now I have to go into this dungeon to get this gear to stay competitive in WvW, other dungeons and general PvE, not happy at all about this to the point that I'm not logging as much as I used to.

It is good to see there are at least a few guys around here feeling the same.

i didn't log yesterday because of this,just didn't feel the urge.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure). As far as players seeking progression, we've known all along that GW2 was never meant to be a game where the gear treadmill drives all. Yes, there's a small progression to be had over time, and it caps with significant effort at legendaries. (Makes you wonder how long it'll take the first person to be fully equipped in legendaries...)

I recall what infusion did in GW1 quite well. This is an evolution of that, with offensive, defensive, etc. infusions. Before we see that in play and how it affects your builds it's premature to write the system off as arbitrary. 

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure)

 

You simply don't know how the game works. Legendaries were just for looks. They have the same stats as exotics. Once the patch that introduces ascended weapons goes live, they will be ajusted to be on par with Ascended in terms of stats. 

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure). As far as players seeking progression, we've known all along that GW2 was never meant to be a game where the gear treadmill drives all. Yes, there's a small progression to be had over time, and it caps with significant effort at legendaries. (Makes you wonder how long it'll take the first person to be fully equipped in legendaries...)

 

I recall what infusion did in GW1 quite well. This is an evolution of that, with offensive, defensive, etc. infusions. Before we see that in play and how it affects your builds it's premature to write the system off as arbitrary. 

There you go again - I already said I'm not worried about infusion and it works like this:

- without infusion "mob type X is harder".

- with infusion "mob type X is easier".

Easier and harder depend on the gear you have.

There is a huge power void of 0, ZERO, NADA, between exotic and legendary.

Sigh.

I guess it is easy to see why people say it is nothing when they don't understand what is happening.

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure)

 

 

You simply don't know how the game works. Legendaries were just for looks. They have the same stats as exotics. Once the patch that introduces ascended weapons goes live, they will be ajusted to be on par with Ascended in terms of stats. 

I simply wasn't sure where legendaries were going. On par with ascended, ok then. All points remain valid. 

You will have ascended, which is a little better in stats and more difficult to obtain than exotics, and you'll still have legendaries as the "final" tier, being the most difficult to obtain.  Exotics we can quickly get at 80. Ascended will take awhile. Legendaries take considerably the most amount of time and effort to obtain.

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure)

 

 

You simply don't know how the game works. Legendaries were just for looks. They have the same stats as exotics. Once the patch that introduces ascended weapons goes live, they will be ajusted to be on par with Ascended in terms of stats. 

So, what you are complaining about is the grind you did to get your exotic and now another type of armor, that may or may not be easy to obtain has been inserted into the mix.

Remember what happen to the original exotic armors in GW1 after Nightfall came out. They took away the original prefix for the Prophecies armor and made it so you can add your own prefix - I had Exotic Bonelace on my Necro and it was converted to Exotic Cabalist. People were up in arms at the time also. But it was actually a good move, in hind sight.

Just need to put things in perspective....

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure). As far as players seeking progression, we've known all along that GW2 was never meant to be a game where the gear treadmill drives all. Yes, there's a small progression to be had over time, and it caps with significant effort at legendaries. (Makes you wonder how long it'll take the first person to be fully equipped in legendaries...)

 

I recall what infusion did in GW1 quite well. This is an evolution of that, with offensive, defensive, etc. infusions. Before we see that in play and how it affects your builds it's premature to write the system off as arbitrary. 

There you go again - I already said I'm not worried about infusion and it works like this:

- without infusion "mob type X is harder".

- with infusion "mob type X is easier".

Easier and harder depend on the gear you have.

There is a huge power void of 0, ZERO, NADA, between exotic and legendary.

Sigh.

I guess it is easy to see why people say it is nothing when they don't understand what is happening.

Then call it a time void. Exotics are easy and quick to obtain. Legendaries take (most people) forever, give or take a few months. Ascended will fall between them in time-to-obtain. Add a little bit o'power to ascended (and legendaries by default) to make them "worth" pursuing, and viola! People have longer term goals without the wall many face trying to get legendaries.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure)

 

 

You simply don't know how the game works. Legendaries were just for looks. They have the same stats as exotics. Once the patch that introduces ascended weapons goes live, they will be ajusted to be on par with Ascended in terms of stats. 

So, what you are complaining about is the grind you did to get your exotic and now another type of armor, that may or may not be easy to obtain has been inserted into the mix.

 

Remember what happen to the original exotic armors in GW1 after Nightfall came out. They took away the original prefix for the Prophecies armor and made it so you can add your own prefix - I had Exotic Bonelace on my Necro and it was converted to Exotic Cabalist. People were up in arms at the time also. But it was actually a good move, in hind sight.

 

Just need to put things in perspective....

Of course if would be better if you actually know what and how they did.

Update - Thursday, May 24, 2007

[edit] Automated Tournaments

• Players can now speak with Tolkano [Tournament] to spend their Tournament Reward Points on various armor and weapon skins.
• The Automated Tournament clock now changes appearance when it is time to join the current round.

[edit] Item Updates

[edit] Armor Insignias and Bonuses

• Players can now obtain armor insignias from all campaigns. Profession-restricted insignias will only drop in campaigns in which characters of that profession can be created.
• Crafted armor in Prophecies and Factions now supports insignias. The insignia bonuses replace the previous inherent armor bonuses and require several additional changes:
  • From this point onward, armor pieces newly crafted in these campaigns will not have inherent bonuses. The crafting costs of these armor pieces have been reduced accordingly.
  • All existing level 20 armor from these campaigns now have insignias in place of their inherent bonuses. Please note that the bonuses on these armor sets have not been altered. The only change is that these bonuses now come from insignias.
  • All existing lower-level armor pieces from these campaigns now support insignias but have had their inherent bonuses removed.
  • Numerous armor sets have been renamed to avoid redundancy with insignia names.
• Lower-level collector armor pieces from Prophecies and Factions now support insignias. Level 20 collector armor does not.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure)

 

 

You simply don't know how the game works. Legendaries were just for looks. They have the same stats as exotics. Once the patch that introduces ascended weapons goes live, they will be ajusted to be on par with Ascended in terms of stats. 

So, what you are complaining about is the grind you did to get your exotic and now another type of armor, that may or may not be easy to obtain has been inserted into the mix.

 

Remember what happen to the original exotic armors in GW1 after Nightfall came out. They took away the original prefix for the Prophecies armor and made it so you can add your own prefix - I had Exotic Bonelace on my Necro and it was converted to Exotic Cabalist. People were up in arms at the time also. But it was actually a good move, in hind sight.

 

Just need to put things in perspective....

How many times do I have to spell it out for you. I'm complaining that ANET isn't clear about their gear progression philo. Are they going to add more tiers of gear/upgrades in teh future. Will new content not be completable without FOTM gear? Their response to community outrage left the door open to go either way. I want a clear answer!

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure)

 

 

You simply don't know how the game works. Legendaries were just for looks. They have the same stats as exotics. Once the patch that introduces ascended weapons goes live, they will be ajusted to be on par with Ascended in terms of stats. 

So, what you are complaining about is the grind you did to get your exotic and now another type of armor, that may or may not be easy to obtain has been inserted into the mix.

 

Remember what happen to the original exotic armors in GW1 after Nightfall came out. They took away the original prefix for the Prophecies armor and made it so you can add your own prefix - I had Exotic Bonelace on my Necro and it was converted to Exotic Cabalist. People were up in arms at the time also. But it was actually a good move, in hind sight.

 

Just need to put things in perspective....

How many times do I have to spell it out for you. I'm complaining that ANET isn't clear about their gear progression philo. Are they going to add more tiers of gear/upgrades in teh future. Will new content not be completable without FOTM gear? Their response to community outrage left the door open to go either way. I want a clear answer!

They did give a clear answer - just not the answer you wanted - I think and if I am wrong - SORRY.

They spelled it out as best as they could w/o giving away all the items in this patch coming out today.