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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » for 5+ years ArenaNet lied to us.....

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149 posts found
  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2139

11/14/12 5:00:56 AM#121
I joined GW2 beacuse of the DE,exploration,stunning world and WvWvW, no sub fee i can come and go as a please, I don't give shit about suppose gear grinding.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  dimnikar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 277

11/14/12 5:02:34 AM#122

I wonder what'll go next; PVP gear, homogenization of classes, a number of other bad design decisions?

 

This sets a nice precedence for them.

http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10575

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/14/12 5:03:36 AM#123

You know, if people begged and begged for something like an end game raid grind, you can't really blame Anet for giving it to them. It seems they are taking the opposite approach of every other developer and giving players raid specific gear stats instead of pvp specific gear stats. Or maybe there's raid specific and pvp specific stats...

Anyway, the point is people asked for it, so Anet gave it to them. *shrug*

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  QSatu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1765

11/14/12 5:05:36 AM#124

First of all. They said that they found out a lot of people miss some kind of progression and the whole thing with exotics isn't working as they wanted. That's why they decided to change the course a little bit.

Second of all there already is gear "treadmill" as you say. you get green>yellow>orange stuff. if you were fine with it for the past 3 months than sorry but you are hypocrite with starting to complain now.

third.. MMO changes. This is tha nature of the game. Devs figure out something doesn't work and they try to improve it. Sometimes they fail sometimes they don't but they still should TRY to improve the game. If you have problem with changing games than sorry for being blunt but GET THE F OUT FROM ONLINE GAMES and play coop or smthing.

This is my 1st and last post in this thread b/c it's not worth talking with people who's life apparently is ruined by a patch in a game.

  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 750

11/14/12 5:15:14 AM#125
Originally posted by saurus123

4% stat increase 8% stat increase 26% stat increase im wondering what these MATH specials smoking becouse for me its total BS

 

my stat with exotic gear

2600 atk power

now when i change the exotic rings to ascended rings

2610 atk power

and 0.2% more crit  chance

 

hows that 26%, 8% or 4% stat increase

 

and they are only giving you ring and backpack

can be crafted, can me obtained from mystic forge or in WvW

 

the ascended armors and weapons cant have sigils and runes in them, that make them weaker in general

they are used mainly in new dungeon as protection vs agony debuff

 

and no there is no gated content before you meet this agony debuff you will have few sets of these rings already

 

From the guy who did 26% calculations.. (agree or disagree)

 

 

TLDR Ascended gear is 26% more powerful than the same-slot exotic. Proof: see below.

Disclaimer

First off, this post is merely to clarify the matter with some math. Some people are saying that ascended gear is only slightly more powerful than exotic gear, including Miss Murdock herself. This is simply not true. The number people are quoting is an 8% increase in power. This is also not true. Ascended gear is 26% more powerful than exotics, as the math below shows.

I will not editorialize, or add my opinions on the matter of Ascended gear. I just feel, very strongly, that people need to be aware of the facts, be on the same page so to speak, in order to cogently discuss any issue. I made a similar post to this one on the main thread discussing Ascended gear, but it obviously got drowned down. People need to know this. So I ask: moderators, please don’t pull this post into the main thread, it’ll only get lost. And forum-goers/readers, please don’t discuss the virtues/downsides of Ascended gear. Let’s keep this thread purely informational. That said, if you find an error in my math, feel free to point it out.

Math

From the blog,

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

post we can see that increase, per stat is roughly 8%. The Exotic ring has a total of 63 power, and the Ascended has 68, which is a 7.9% increase (See note). This is where the "8% more powerful* figure floating around gets taken from. However, this is misleading, because that is the increase in one stat. Notice that both rings have three stats. Precision also got an 8% bump, and magic find gets an (10 – 7) / 7 = 42% increase. Yes, that is 42%.

Now, in Guild Wars 2, each stat increases your damage (survivability, etc), linearly. That is, an increase in 8% to your power stat will increase your damage by 8%. When you increase three stats, however, you don’t get a linear increase in damage, you get a cubic increase. To show why this is true, let’s imagine you go from an Exotic Berserker ring, to an Ascended Berserker ring. We don’t have the stats on the Berserker jewelry, but we can extrapolate. Let’s be conservative, though, and assume that the Berserker will increase each stat by 8% only (unlike the case of magic find above).

Now, from the wiki,

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

we have this formula for damage:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor) (1)

From (1) we can calculate the statistical average damage of your hits taking into account precision and crit damage:

Average Damage done = (weapon damage) x Power x (skill-specific coefficient) x (1 + (crit chance) x ( 0.50 + (crit damage) ) / (target’s Armor) (2)

This looks complicated, but we can just assume that everything but power, crit damage, and crit chance remain constant, and get rid of all the constants, we basically get that (asymptotically) your average damage grows as the function

Average Damage done = proportional to ( power x crit chance x crit damage)

Now, multiply power, crit chance, and crit damage all by 1.08, when moving from exotic to Ascended:

Average Damage done with Ascended gear = proportional to ( power x 1.08 x crit chance x 1.08 x crit damage x 1.08)
= ( power x crit chance x crit damage) x 1.259

Ergo, going from full exotic berserker gear, to full Ascended berserker gear increases your damage contribution from items by, roughly, 26%. See note 2.

Now, I used berserker because it is the easiest to showcase, since you can use the simple damage formula above to show how the three stats multiply each other. However, this increase of 26% is (roughly) also true for any other piece of gear. If you mix defensive and offensive stats, or offensive and magic find, or what have you, these stats multiply together to increase your effectiveness.

Note: An important thing to add here, on edit, is that my calculations already include the stats offered by the jewel in the Exotic gear. So this claim floating around that this disparity is made up by runes/sigils/gem slots that the Ascended gear lack is a canard. What my calculations do not include however, because we don’t know them yet, are stat increases, if any, provided by filling the infusion slot. These “infusions” could potentially increase the power gap between exotic and ascended even further.

Note 2: Important to note that level 80s have roughly 900 points in each stat. Also, you get roughly 1400 stat points from your spec. And, finally, there are stacking buffs like Might which remain the same regardless of gear. So your total damage will not go up by 26%. Your damage contribution from items goes up by, roughly 26%. Hence, the title of my thread that ascended gear is 26% more powerful than exotic.

  cujo603

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/21/06
Posts: 97

11/14/12 5:24:16 AM#126
Of all the single player games calling themselves mmo's gw2 is the best so far.
  saurus123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 511

11/14/12 5:28:38 AM#127

he trying to be cool and give some shit math

 

when all you had to do is take ring with 10 more power and precision and look at your total stats after equiping the better ones

 

the difference is ~0,4% in more atk power from equiping 2 rings

 

maybe it will go up to ~2,2% when equiping all ascended items (weapons and armors)

but we only know stats of these rings

  Coman

Elite Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1950

11/14/12 5:32:26 AM#128
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Nothing ,you dont code those kind of "expansions" in three months,they were allready doing those loooong time a ago.

 

In that time they could hire a new guy, give him time to learn the code and coding structure and add this "new" feature in 3 months time. I doubt they created something before with the intension of actually adding it, unless something went wrong. You might be right that they might have drafted something up (just to test it out or as a back-up plan) before, but I do not really believe they had this planned before release and hoped that what they created would be a hit.

Like I said before nothing wrong with developers taking risks and then correcting if something is not liked by the community or by themselves. I see also nothing wrong and even applaud it especially from the business aspect that they would have a back-up plan already ready in case a risky new/changed feature is not working. Hell the biggest part of what I am supposed to learn at the university is not really the coding or even the designing (While both I should still know offcourse), but the ability to properly argue why and why not you do something the way you do it. Pretty sure that in that early process of development this was already talked about and other plans discussed, maybe even prototyped. 

Also how long does it really take to program a whole game? 2-3 years? So I am sure in 3 month time they could add this easily enough. 

  Sidad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 45

11/14/12 5:34:17 AM#129
Yes I feel and was deceived in many ways. Never EVER again will I trust an mmo company..... GW2 Biggest dissapointment this year. The worst part is that game acctually had potential. Oh well....
  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1132

11/14/12 5:36:05 AM#130
I'm not really mad. In fact I'm feeling kind of smug because I was expecting something exactly like this to happen although I'll admit I'm a bit surprised how quickly it happened after release. Fortunately I'm already in the "barely can bring myself to login" phase of playing the game, so the new gear grind won't really affect me. It's still moderately fun to level alts and if they ruin WvW (which isn't that great to begin with) with ever increasing gear tiers, sPvP still isn't affected (for now). But any chance of my spending money in the cash shop or buying xpacs is now out the window.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  Kaleston

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 176

11/14/12 5:47:11 AM#131
Originally posted by Whitebeards

From the guy who did 26% calculations.. (agree or disagree)

If you do math, do it properly.

First of all a*(1+b*c) is not a*b*c  int his situation by any means... Typically this is situation where a is solid number and b*c is something small, so more often than not 1+b*c  is close to 1. You can only ignore constants that are insignificant...

Second problem is, you are talking about item contribution, ignoring outside environment. There are some base stats, some stats you get from traits etc. So even upgrade of items would give you 26% more than exotics, in a big picture it's still only a few percents difference between 2 guys, one in exotics and one in ascended.

Ok I see your note 2. What about adding to your article note 3, which says: however these 26% will improve your overall efficiency by 2%? (You like math, do you math here :))

  Gilwen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/04
Posts: 42

11/14/12 5:52:56 AM#132
No. Bye.
  eldaris

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 326

11/14/12 5:57:16 AM#133

Only people who really thought arenanet is different than other developers were deceived by it,after age of conan ,warhammer,swtor and lot of other mmos launched in the last few years players should have known better.I expected this move even before the launch of the game,after all is much easier to replace fun content with grinding not to speak that is much better for their cash shop to have a gear treadmill,the longest the grind is the more chances there are you will spend money trading gems for gold.

  Naral

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 751

11/14/12 6:38:43 AM#134

So, is this really the diabolical journey to the dark side, are we looking at World of Guild Craft?

Meh, if it keeps more people playing, then that is cool. If you care about progression, guess what, here you go, have fun!

If you didn't care about progression, and were just playing for "fun" why do you even care about this. You can chose to do what you want to do, right? So, don't do it if it makes you so upset. Vote with your feet.

I spent 3 years in WoW and barely touched raids. Yeah, I got facerolled a bit in pvp, but I had fun, so I didn't give a rat's ass. I will do the same here, assuming I can last that long without being bored enough to quit. 

Progression itself might add players to this game--which in my personal experience is flagging population wise--so it is a good thing. 

Devs who stick with design philosophies that do not work and refuse stubbornly to change up the things that are broken, those are the devs who irritate me. Good on Anet for addressing the concern of a wide section of the player base.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/14/12 7:32:51 AM#135

Lied to.  Doom.

(Aren't these guys supposed to show up on Saturday?)

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Varthander

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/07
Posts: 453

Forum ranks are useless.

11/14/12 7:35:45 AM#136
Guess what? No.

  Tredvolt

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/12
Posts: 10

11/14/12 7:37:38 AM#137
Originally posted by SirFubar

You shouldn't have to worry at all. There's like a +5 to certain stats with the new gear, nothing game breaking [...]

68 stat points on ascended rings compared to 63 stat points on exotic rings is approximately +8% stat points. Please take a look at some of the rings from that other extremely gear-centric game (purple level 85 rings):

Vicious Gladiator's Signet of Cruelty (item level 352)

Vicious Gladiator's Signet of Cruelty (item level 358): +5,6% stats

Ruthless Gladiator's Signet of Cruelty (item level 371): +12,8% stats

Ruthless Gladiator's Signet of Cruelty (item level 377): +6,1% stats

Cataclysmic Gladiator's Signet of Cruelty (item level 390): +12,9%

That's an average of +9,4% stat points for every new tier of rings. Sounds familiar? Guild Wars' saving grace is the much higher character base stats, but let's not pretend the stat increase on ascended items is small, insignificant and not worth grinding for.

  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 750

11/14/12 7:45:55 AM#138
Originally posted by botrytis

I will take a whine where people atleast try to present their point of view in constructive and coherent manner over this useless post any day.

  Nikopol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

11/14/12 7:47:00 AM#139
Originally posted by Icewhite

Lied to.  Doom.

(Aren't these guys supposed to show up on Saturday?)

aww, but you undersold it to its death!  let me try and bring it back up to its feet:

/Illidan Stormrage voice on:

"Lied to, for 5+ years...

With promises of no progress...

And now you dare open up a new tier?

You are not prepared."

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3272

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

11/14/12 7:49:57 AM#140


Originally posted by Nikopol

Originally posted by Icewhite Lied to.  Doom. (Aren't these guys supposed to show up on Saturday?)
aww, but you undersold it to its death!  let me try and bring it back up to its feet:

/Illidan Stormrage voice on:

"Lied to, for 5+ years...

With promises of no progress...

And now you dare open up a new tier?

You are not prepared."


/Respect


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