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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » RUINED MMOPRG's: Raid/Group Finder

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249 posts found
  asmkm22

Elite Member

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 1620

11/13/12 2:56:24 PM#81
Also, group finders are like gay marriages.  If you don't like it, don't get one.

You make me like charity

  Whitebeards

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 740

11/13/12 2:58:16 PM#82

I like Raid/ Group finder. In games which do not implement it i usualy add those spamming LFG to block list. There..so much for your feeling of community.

*Welcome to my block list you spammer*

  asmkm22

Elite Member

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 1620

11/13/12 3:03:28 PM#83
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

Apparently not.  Otherwise, games like SWG and Vanguard wouldn't have been complete failures.  You can complain about how the masses are just idiots looking for easy mode gameplay, but if you are going to claim there a "couple million" of you guys who think the same way, then you should have been able to keep at least one of those games afloat.

You make me like charity

  Whitebeards

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 740

11/13/12 3:08:02 PM#84
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

What? a couple of million? where were you guys when games like vanguard, swg, ryzom, fallen earth needed you?  so you couple of million are just talks it means? lol

  User Deleted
11/13/12 3:10:41 PM#85
Originally posted by maji

The thing is convenient, but I agree.

Think of the early days of WoW. To get into a dungeon, you had to assemble a group, manually, by asking people in your clan, that you meet at random, in the area chat, or in a city. That already made you get to know people in the game. Then you'd travel there together. If, for example, you'd get to that one castle near the undead starting area, you'd had a long and dangerous way to travel there. But it was fun. And when you finally arrived, everyone was motivated to get through the dungeon, and not annoy anyone, since, if you fail, none of you would get quickly another chance.

Today? Use the dungeon finder, wait some, start killing things, leave. Talking? Pffff, why? Travelling? Naaah. Who cares if the game looks empty, because people teleport constantly anyway. Who cares if it doesn't make any sense, that you can teleport from one point to another, from early levels on, just like that. Introduction into a dungeon by solo player quests? Naaaah, who cares what the dungeon is about.

Yes, the dungeon finder is convenient. But it killed many of the social aspects, lots of the atmosphere and lots of immersion.

This over and over again. 

It was such a blast running to brd with a group of horde adventures and then run into another group adventures that were...elves. *urk* The spontanious pvp were such a blast :) 

  Serenes

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/10
Posts: 347

11/13/12 3:11:27 PM#86
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

Apparently not.  Otherwise, games like SWG and Vanguard wouldn't have been complete failures.  You can complain about how the masses are just idiots looking for easy mode gameplay, but if you are going to claim there a "couple million" of you guys who think the same way, then you should have been able to keep at least one of those games afloat.

Awesome post, just wanted to say that.

 

 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/13/12 3:12:08 PM#87
Originally posted by Whitebeards

What? a couple of million? where were you guys when games like vanguard, swg, ryzom, fallen earth needed you?  so you couple of million are just talks it means? lol

Aren't most "huge group speaking with one voice" statements always indistinguishable from hogwash?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

11/13/12 3:15:34 PM#88
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Wolfenpride

I've always found it strange that LFG menu's went largely ignored in a lot of games. Not the dungeon finder which automatically puts you together, but the panel system that simply lists a flagged persons name/level/class and a comment or whatever.

I like that system better than dungeon finders personally, but again, from what i've ever been able to tell it was rarely used for some reason.

Because people are lazy. They dont want to wait. when they want a group they want to right then and there and the game should cater to them.

 

infact its the games fault for not knowing they wanted to group ten mins before the player even knew they wanted to group and start the que prossess for them automatically.

 

How dare your MMO not run these instance for you so that when you get home from your busy day, you dont already have a full set of new gear to put on.

Of course. Why would i want to wait (doing nothing) to play a game? Why would have have to be doin nothing?

Damn right .. anything that can reduce wait time is a plus in my books. I can understand this IF you doin nothing but waiting for groups.

And what does waiting have to do with running the instance for you? I don't want to wait. I want to kill something ... with a challenge if you believe that. Isn't that hard to understand? That is 99% of the games out there .. fire it up and go into combat.

http://www.callofduty.com/

http://www.streetfighter.com/

http://www.devilmaycry.com/

http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/

http://us.battle.net/en/int?r=d3

If you want a game like you say you like then theres plenty of games for you. The thing is however, there arent alot of games for me. and thats the problem.

 

I feel as if MMOs got a sickness over the years. An Infestation of console gamers came through and left a pox on the MMO world. Slowly eating away at all the things that made MMOs, Well MMOs. Now were left with a disfigured version of something that use to be beautiful and fine.

For example... What MMOs use to be....

And this is what the pox did to MMOs...

 

 

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

11/13/12 3:17:34 PM#89
Originally posted by asmkm22

I like group finders.  At least, I like being able to find groups, which is something that gets rediculously difficult to do in a lot of games that don't have them.  Yeah it's fine if you have several friends that you regularly play with, but for everyone else, finding groups generally means spamming a chat channel over and over until you give up or finally get one.

It's even worse with games like SWtOR where players are so spread out that the only reliable zone to look for groups is fleet station... which means you can't look for a group while also question.  Which means you end up doing the very the OP criticizes.

If game dev's don't want to have group finders, then they had better give players some other tool to find groups on their own.  Or design content that doesn't require groups.

 

I'm also positive that most people who complain about group finding features have actually never been negatively affected by them.  They just don't want them on principle because "the ruin communities" or other random reason without any data to back it up.

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

11/13/12 3:19:37 PM#90
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

Apparently not.  Otherwise, games like SWG and Vanguard wouldn't have been complete failures.  You can complain about how the masses are just idiots looking for easy mode gameplay, but if you are going to claim there a "couple million" of you guys who think the same way, then you should have been able to keep at least one of those games afloat.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/13/12 3:21:32 PM#91
Originally posted by asmkm22
Also, group finders are like gay marriages.  If you don't like it, don't get one.

That's probably the worst analogy I've seen all week. You can't see how a feature has a broad impact on the game as a whole and the way its played?

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/13/12 3:22:58 PM#92
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

Apparently not.  Otherwise, games like SWG and Vanguard wouldn't have been complete failures.

Er, SWG was a huge success until it was turned into a themepark game. So, point goes against you there.

And there was enough interest in Vanguard for it to sell several hundred thousand copies on the first day, despite it being the same week as Buning Crusade's launch. The problem with Vanguard was that it launched 8 months too early, not the gameplay.

  asmkm22

Elite Member

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 1620

11/13/12 3:33:23 PM#93
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by asmkm22
Also, group finders are like gay marriages.  If you don't like it, don't get one.

That's probably the worst analogy I've seen all week. You can't see how a feature has a broad impact on the game as a whole and the way its played?

 

What I know is that games and "communities" are no different before or after a group finder is added.  People use the same few excuses in argument against them, and none seem to hold any water.

Server communities are going to be strong or weak depending on the community itself.  If adding a group finder messes it up, then I'd say it wasn't a very strong community in the first place.

Exploration has been dumbed down so much with games anyway, that adding a group finder does nothing.  Take SWtOR for example:  You enter every flashpoint from the fleet station, so being able to teleport to it through group finder while out questing isn't really limiting your exploration.  If anything, it's enhancing it because you are out questing and not stuck in fleet spamming LFG.  Some games, however, like WoW, did suffer in this regard because instances were spread out across the world.  LFG tools do eleminate the exploration of finding the instance, so I will concede the point under that circumstance, as rare as that design is getting.

Player behavior is also no worse with a group finder than without.  I know the idea is that when people get grouped up with people they don't know or haven't spoken to, they turn into ninja looting idiots demanding faster pulls and don't leave tips.   This ties into the first excuse though, in that those people are part of the community regardless.  Even with cross-server group finder tools, like WoW's, I still run into the same people pretty regularly.  And, believe it or not, I rarely run into idiots or assholes.  Most are fairly cool people just looking to get through the dungeon and have fun.  Some groups are quiet, and some are chatty.  Just like any other.

 

So tell me, what is so awful about a game feature that supposedly ruins an entire genre?

You make me like charity

  Whitebeards

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 740

11/13/12 3:34:42 PM#94
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

Apparently not.  Otherwise, games like SWG and Vanguard wouldn't have been complete failures.

Er, SWG was a huge success until it was turned into a themepark game. So, point goes against you there.

And there was enough interest in Vanguard for it to sell several hundred thousand copies on the first day, despite it being the same week as Buning Crusade's launch. The problem with Vanguard was that it launched 8 months too early, not the gameplay.

At no point SWG or any sandbox ever had couple of milion players which contradict your claim of 'couple of millions'.

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2004

11/13/12 3:40:40 PM#95
Even though the OP grossly oversimplified the pros and cons to the group finder tool, my vote remains a resounding "NAY!"
  asmkm22

Elite Member

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 1620

11/13/12 3:46:57 PM#96
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

Apparently not.  Otherwise, games like SWG and Vanguard wouldn't have been complete failures.

Er, SWG was a huge success until it was turned into a themepark game. So, point goes against you there.

And there was enough interest in Vanguard for it to sell several hundred thousand copies on the first day, despite it being the same week as Buning Crusade's launch. The problem with Vanguard was that it launched 8 months too early, not the gameplay.

SWG had about 300k subs at it's peak.  It *might* have been a minor financial success, in that they didn't actually lose money after paying Lucas royalties, but that's it.  Anyway, I bet it if had those two million subscribers you claim exist, it never would have had to go "themepark" in the first place.

As for Vanguard, I can't confirm how many units it sold on it's first day or month, but I do know it went from about 120k subs to about 40k in a matter of months.  Anyway, you've made it very clear that there are a couple million people like yourself looking for a game, so it's not like those people left vanguard for good, to play some other epic sandbox game.  If it was truly just released 8 months too early, then the couple million players should have started to show up about 8 months into its release rather than let it die.

You make me like charity

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/13/12 3:52:42 PM#97
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by asmkm22
Also, group finders are like gay marriages.  If you don't like it, don't get one.

That's probably the worst analogy I've seen all week. You can't see how a feature has a broad impact on the game as a whole and the way its played?

 

What I know is that games and "communities" are no different before or after a group finder is added. 

The social community in Dark Age of Camelot changed radically when they put in instanced dungeons. The game became all about soloing and people started becoming very exclusive and unfriendly, only grouping with guildies.

It's foolish to say that a game isn't impacted by a huge feature like the dungeon finder.

In DAoC I made most of my friends in dungeons. With a dungeon finder, I will never, EVER see those people again.

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 963

11/13/12 3:52:44 PM#98
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

Apparently not.  Otherwise, games like SWG and Vanguard wouldn't have been complete failures.

Er, SWG was a huge success until it was turned into a themepark game. So, point goes against you there.

And there was enough interest in Vanguard for it to sell several hundred thousand copies on the first day, despite it being the same week as Buning Crusade's launch. The problem with Vanguard was that it launched 8 months too early, not the gameplay.

The fact that you and others liked SWG doesn't mean that it wasn't tremendously broken, and that it didn't also launch 6 months to a year too early.  Pretending that it wasn't losing subscribers also undercuts your argument.   I personally agree that they should have focused on fixing the game they had, rather than going to a new style.  They would have had a better chance to keep at least some of their player base.  As it was, they didn't gain many new players, and peeved their old guard. 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/13/12 3:53:38 PM#99
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

Apparently not.  Otherwise, games like SWG and Vanguard wouldn't have been complete failures.

Er, SWG was a huge success until it was turned into a themepark game. So, point goes against you there.

And there was enough interest in Vanguard for it to sell several hundred thousand copies on the first day, despite it being the same week as Buning Crusade's launch. The problem with Vanguard was that it launched 8 months too early, not the gameplay.

At no point SWG or any sandbox ever had couple of milion players which contradict your claim of 'couple of millions'.

I never claimed that a sandbox game, or SWG, had a couple million players.

I claimed that there were a couple million MMO veterans who have been displaced for the past 8 years, and that's a modest estimate I'd say.

Reading comprehension bud.

 

And really, if you're going to try to say anything about Vanguard, at least look up information on it even briefly, because you have zero idea what you're talking about.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

11/13/12 3:54:32 PM#100
Originally posted by Arglebargle
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Thanks for spouting your reddit memes.

We're talking about the future of the genre, with affects ALL of us. There's a couple million of us who have spent the last 8 years watching our favorite genre get destroyed.

 

 

Apparently not.  Otherwise, games like SWG and Vanguard wouldn't have been complete failures.

Er, SWG was a huge success until it was turned into a themepark game. So, point goes against you there.

And there was enough interest in Vanguard for it to sell several hundred thousand copies on the first day, despite it being the same week as Buning Crusade's launch. The problem with Vanguard was that it launched 8 months too early, not the gameplay.

The fact that you and others liked SWG doesn't mean that it wasn't tremendously broken, and that it didn't also launch 6 months to a year too early. 

Never claimed it wasn't. There's a reason I only played it here and there. I was merely pointing out how factually incorrect the other poster was when they claimed SWG was a huge failure when, for a long while, it was the second most popular MMO.

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