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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » RUINED MMOPRG's: Raid/Group Finder

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249 posts found
  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5078

11/16/12 3:38:42 AM#241

Sorry nariusseldon but you do belong to a small group of people, you have had to post 33 times in this one thread to defend your position. 33times!

You belong to a small group on here who see everything in current MMO’s through some very rose tinted spectacles. If your optimistic opinions were so widely held you would not have to post so many times, others with your thinking would post in support.

So by all means give us the rosy picture, but don’t try to pass it off as what most of us think. :)

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

11/16/12 4:04:49 AM#242
Originally posted by Scot

Sorry nariusseldon but you do belong to a small group of people, you have had to post 33 times in this one thread to defend your position. 33times!

You belong to a small group on here who see everything in current MMO’s through some very rose tinted spectacles. If your optimistic opinions were so widely held you would not have to post so many times, others with your thinking would post in support.

So by all means give us the rosy picture, but don’t try to pass it off as what most of us think. :)

Do you know why you felt you needed to put that smiley in the end? -Its because you yourself know that argument is ridiculous. I don't know why your internal censor is not working, but all this post deserves is an...

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16405

11/16/12 4:16:30 AM#243

A server wide dungeon or raid finder is fine, it is when you make it cross server the problems start.

The point of grouping is either to play with friends or to meet new players. In a cross server random group you will most likely never see anyone you play with again which both makes conversation less fun and takes out the worst in many players with ninja looting, rude remarks and insults.

Certain games needs to merge their servers but tries this instead of doing what needs to be done.

Dungeon finders is not a must in MMOs, but some people enjoy them so I dont mind, but cross servers suck.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5078

11/16/12 12:53:22 PM#244

Quirhad you are one of the everything is rosy gang, what else would you say? You have seen the polls on here for anything that asks are MMOs now better. They always say no. What more do you need? The high retail just means people are prepared to pay, not staying after two months shows they are not prepared to stay. Why won't they stay? Even MMORPG.com faced up to this recently with Bills article.

So by all means tell us what you like about today’s MMO's but the idea you are a majority is just not feasible. Otherwise MMO's would not fade after a couple of months. (No smiley as you read things into them)

I cautiously welcomed the Raid/Group finder when it came out. But even though I thought it could be a big help tp grouping I was cautious. Why? Because I have seen many new systems now put in that at first seem good and then have unexpected side effects. The Finder has turned out to be one of those, I am still not 100% sure it should totally go, but I see no way to change it and still not have unwanted effects. Certainly the cross server idea has effectivly made MMO's into a lobby where you can move around and do other stuff but teleport to an instance at need.  As we have discussed so many times before streamlining does not equal better.

 

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

11/16/12 1:46:12 PM#245
Originally posted by Scot

Quirhad you are one of the everything is rosy gang, what else would you say? You have seen the polls on here for anything that asks are MMOs now better. They always say no. What more do you need? The high retail just means people are prepared to pay, not staying after two months shows they are not prepared to stay. Why won't they stay? Even MMORPG.com faced up to this recently with Bills article.

So by all means tell us what you like about today’s MMO's but the idea you are a majority is just not feasible. Otherwise MMO's would not fade after a couple of months. (No smiley as you read things into them)

I cautiously welcomed the Raid/Group finder when it came out. But even though I thought it could be a big help tp grouping I was cautious. Why? Because I have seen many new systems now put in that at first seem good and then have unexpected side effects. The Finder has turned out to be one of those, I am still not 100% sure it should totally go, but I see no way to change it and still not have unwanted effects. Certainly the cross server idea has effectivly made MMO's into a lobby where you can move around and do other stuff but teleport to an instance at need.  As we have discussed so many times before streamlining does not equal better.

You are a purist. Great majority don't care what label you put on a game as long as its fun. And they don't spend time posting on the forums either. Battlefield Heroes' changes in payment model and the resulting complaints on the forums is just one example where the forum community does not speak for the whole playerbase.

I've seen it in many PvP games where people get worked up and speak with passion with this and that, when reality could be entirely different. In my experience, very few people are aware of the bigger picture and their voices are drowned by the cacophony of the rest. I don't claim to know the bigger picture, but I know enough to point out some of the obvious flaws in someones' argument.

Just because you are vocal, does not mean you are right.

Proof by assertion, sometimes informally referred to as proof by repeated assertion, is an informal fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction Sometimes, this may be repeated until challenges dry up, at which point it is asserted as fact due to its not being contradicted (argumentum ad nauseam). In other cases, its repetition may be cited as evidence of its truth, in a variant of the appeal to authority or appeal to belief fallacies.

-link to the wiki article

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19086

11/16/12 2:32:15 PM#246
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

I define variety as games that are different from one another. You know, how everyone defines variety.

If a shop has 20 colors of paint, but only 40 paint cans, it still has more variety than a giant megaplex that has 3000 cans of paint, but they're all white.

In that case, how can you say there is no variety?

WOW has totally different art style, and RPG rules than DDO, LOTRO. TOR is star wars. Rift has the rift mechanics. Aion has flying people.

I can point out differences in tons of MMOs. Don't tell me you think the world of Forgotten Realms is the same as Warhammer.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19086

11/16/12 2:36:35 PM#247
Originally posted by zekeofev
 

I would argue that WoW changed its design philosophy. Vanilla WoW is not like current WoW at all except for the storyline. You agree it is more of a lobby game now with players hanging around the major hubs. It was not like that to start with. So yes I would argue that with every patch WoW has become more like a single player RPG with a chat room and trending farther and farther away from its EQ+AC2 roots. The patch that added group and dungeon finder was definately a landmark point on this journey (to try and get this back on topic).

 No disagreement here. We all are saying the same thing: WOW (and other MMOs) are turning more like lobby co-op games. I do disagree with the SP label. Lobby multi-player game != single player game. When i play dishonored, i don't see another soul. When i play Diablo 3, i group to do uber all the time.

I understand its popular and I love some single player RPGs from time to time. The problem is that there is no Massive Multiplayer Online World for me to play in with the key word being world. I want reasons to interact that are not just combat and reasons to meet people in a game. Current games do not have the lasting appeal for me because of the focus on the single player type of content and thus I generally do not pick them up.

Sure, i can see that is your problem. But that is not mine. Co-op combat (or pvp) is reason enough for me to deal with others. Once again, i don't play games to be social. I play game to enjoy co-op combat gameplay.

And lastly, lasting-appeal is totally another thing. First, if a game is fun, i don't think it needs lasting appeal. Deus Ex and Dishonored are very good games. I am glad they are over in 2 weeks. MMOs are the same to me. If it happens to be fun for 6 months (even SP games can do that .. like BL or Diablo), fine and i will ahve fun for longer time. If the fun is up in 2 weeks, so be it, and i will move on.

 

  User Deleted
11/16/12 3:14:34 PM#248
[mod edit]

Darkfall 1 was amazing game,its sad that it was infected by people who dont like that kind of games and which is even more sad is that Darkfall 2 seems to be converted for those guys,atleast thats how it looks right now.

 

 

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5078

11/17/12 5:33:50 AM#249

This is my 4th post on this thread, so I don’t think I am guilty of proof by assertion: “sometimes informally referred to as proof by repeated assertion”

Meanwhile good old Nariusseldon is up to 35 posts now. I think that qualifies as proof by assertion. In light of this I don’t consider myself particularly vocal.

While I agree that forums do not always show what players care about, whenever we have asked on these forums they show players are concerned about what is happening to MMO’s. I cannot remember a poll or thread that has said otherwise. If you were right a poll would agree with you, at least once in a while.

If your argument is that we need to listen more to those who are not on the forums and that by buying the games they show they still like them. I am listening. I am hearing the dreadful silence that starts to fall after a MMO has only been out after a few months. Those players are speaking, by buying and then leaving so quickly.

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