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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Is the problem really that MMORPGs aren't hard anymore?

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231 posts found
  Edeus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/10
Posts: 513

11/13/12 11:57:13 AM#121
I liked it better when I was ignorant, young, and niave.  The whole world seemed harder, and at the same time attainable.

Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

11/13/12 11:58:01 AM#122
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by Zeppelin4
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by Enigmatus

I wouldn't say that it's because MMOs are too easy; rather they just don't seem to know how to pace the difficulty.

Seriously, everything before the end is a flat plane, and then the end pops up and it eithers ends up being a giant wall of hurt, or a valley or incredible boredom.

And by the time the so called "end game" is reached it's too little too late.

So much effort is put into creating content and maps for levels 1-59.  Yet only a few dungeons in one area at level 60 are difficult.  I usually end up quitting long before reaching that point.

Combine that with the fact that there is very little originality anymore and I find cannot find any reason to play anymore.

Easy leveling *is* a problem. MMOs should have difficulty sliders like ARPGs. Let people level faster if they want to fight harder mobs.

 

Vanguard has this you can also stop xp dead if you want. Seems to me alot of the things people are complaining that mmo no longer do or have, Vanguard still has those things from pre WOW days.

The problem with Vanguard for me is the population. The free to play / store don't help ethier. 

 

This population thing is an old excuse that has warn itself out now. Since the F2P system Vanguards population has risen ten fold. Telon server is really an international server and has many people across all levels playing the game. Plus we are talking about features and certain game elements that people claim to miss but Vanguard has them. Seems to me that these people claimg they miss certain features but play these new mmo like GW2 have only themselves to blame.

Yeah Vanguard is more or less the only decent AAA MMO to release in the last 8 years. I play it, but my issue with it is SoE took out several of the more interesting features and made it more like WoW. That, and there's no PvP. Still has the best FTP system I've ever seen though.

 

What system to make it more like WOW, i've played since beta.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/13/12 12:00:15 PM#123
The problem is they aren't mmorpgs any more

They are either orpgs - swtor, tsw, wow once you've leveled

Or they are mmogs - planetside 2
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/13/12 12:02:27 PM#124
Originally posted by Zeppelin4

haha I could tie my hands behind my back and see if I can use my nose only with no mouse. What next do you want me to roll a priest and fight hand to hand to level 80?

Yes, I would.  A priest arriving at the cap with (on the order of) 1/10th the normal priest mana pool and fighting with a white mace?  Tissue paper armor...oh yes, I'd love to see this.

Don't worry, we'll never ask you to PVP.  Just survive normal quest mobs.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19149

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/13/12 12:03:12 PM#125
Originally posted by Whitebeards
No what changed is that i grew up and i don't find anything hard anymore;) 

No what changed is that I grew older and everything keeps getting harder. 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

11/13/12 12:03:20 PM#126
I think once your "geared" is a better way to put it actually. Once you've leveled in traditional MMORPG's you still need to go grind things to get your gear.  it isnt until your geared that it becomes repetative in play. Honestly i love the original runs when your low gear to bring that challenge into the game. The reason i play TSW and love it so much is because we haven't even scratched the surface of the game yet. so that first time experiance is gonna be happening quite often. even after i get max gear.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

11/13/12 12:10:13 PM#127
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by furidiam

There are no more real mmo's now. All this new stuff is catering to the short attention span customers. Look at the success of games that are out on the smart phone/face book. These new games are chasing WOW and these social games looking at the profits.

Games used to be made by gamers for gamers. Now it is corporations going after gamers wallets. This is what made games now a days what they are.

 

There are a couple of mmo since WOW that are not hand holding and the old one are still here, if you choose to play these new types of MMO then you only have yourself to blame.

Uh, there's been ONE AAA MMO since WoW came out that was challenging/not a WoW clone.

And no, those old games aren't there anymore, or we'd be playing them.

Really, so EQ isn't here no more and Ryzom and EVE,DAOC and what is a wow clone?

There has never been a WOW clone, do you know the meaning of the word clone?

Ah, you mean a MMO that has quests and level progression, if that's the case then you need to stop playing MMO because they all have some sort of progression. Whether it's levelling skills or levelling to, gain skills or questing or levelling crafting they all have it.

Time for you to stop playing MMOs.

And what AAA MMO do you think is a challenging.

There was never a WoW clone? hahaha. Oh boy. What do you think Rift, LotRO, AoC, SWTOR, and WAR's PvE are? They even have the same UI. Get some perspective. Progression isn't the issue here.

And no, EQ, DAoC, and all the pre WoW MMOs are no longer there in the form that we remember. Hence why people stopped playing.

And the only decent AAA MMORPG of the last 8 years was Vanguard. Maybe GW2 now, but that has its own gaping flaws.

Again do you know what the word clone means? hahahaha

Let me help you.

a person or thing regarded as an exact copy of another:

computer designed to simulate exactly the operation of another, typically more expensive, model:

make an identical copy of:

So unless you can show me another MMO that has WOW lore, classes, world  and name their has never been a WOW clone.

Now clones is a word that is thrown around in the MMO world that should not be in the MMO world. 

And yes Vanguard is the only decent AAA since WOW,  i have 3 level 55s and numerous atls since beta.

There is no MMO that is a clone of WOW.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/13/12 12:16:53 PM#128
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Whitebeards
No what changed is that i grew up and i don't find anything hard anymore;) 

No what changed is that I grew older and everything keeps getting harder. 

Viagra. right? (too easy)

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19149

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/13/12 12:18:07 PM#129
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by furidiam

There are no more real mmo's now. All this new stuff is catering to the short attention span customers. Look at the success of games that are out on the smart phone/face book. These new games are chasing WOW and these social games looking at the profits.

Games used to be made by gamers for gamers. Now it is corporations going after gamers wallets. This is what made games now a days what they are.

 

There are a couple of mmo since WOW that are not hand holding and the old one are still here, if you choose to play these new types of MMO then you only have yourself to blame.

Uh, there's been ONE AAA MMO since WoW came out that was challenging/not a WoW clone.

And no, those old games aren't there anymore, or we'd be playing them.

Really, so EQ isn't here no more and Ryzom and EVE,DAOC and what is a wow clone?

There has never been a WOW clone, do you know the meaning of the word clone?

Ah, you mean a MMO that has quests and level progression, if that's the case then you need to stop playing MMO because they all have some sort of progression. Whether it's levelling skills or levelling to, gain skills or questing or levelling crafting they all have it.

Time for you to stop playing MMOs.

And what AAA MMO do you think is a challenging.

There was never a WoW clone? hahaha. Oh boy. What do you think Rift, LotRO, AoC, SWTOR, and WAR's PvE are? They even have the same UI. Get some perspective. Progression isn't the issue here.

And no, EQ, DAoC, and all the pre WoW MMOs are no longer there in the form that we remember. Hence why people stopped playing.

And the only decent AAA MMORPG of the last 8 years was Vanguard. Maybe GW2 now, but that has its own gaping flaws.

Again do you know what the word clone means? hahahaha

Let me help you.

a person or thing regarded as an exact copy of another:

computer designed to simulate exactly the operation of another, typically more expensive, model:

make an identical copy of:

So unless you can show me another MMO that has WOW lore, classes, world  and name their has never been a WOW clone.

Now clones is a word that is thrown around in the MMO world that should not be in the MMO world. 

And yes Vanguard is the only decent AAA since WOW,  i have 3 level 55s and numerous atls since beta.

There is no MMO that is a clone of WOW.

You are taking the term "clone" too literally and ignoring the greater concept behind the term WOW-clone.

Missing the forest for the trees actually.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Greymantle4

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 752

11/13/12 12:18:40 PM#130
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Whitebeards
No what changed is that i grew up and i don't find anything hard anymore;) 

No what changed is that I grew older and everything keeps getting harder. 

Viagra. right? (too easy)

haha Viagra is account gear and as you call it white gear is a good left hand. :P

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/13/12 12:20:07 PM#131
Originally posted by Kyleran

You are taking the term "clone" too literally and ignoring the greater concept behind the term WOW-clone.

Missing the forest for the trees actually.

What? Abusive miss-use of popular gamer slang terms?  Like, no wai!  Tie him to the stake!  Bring the torches!

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Greymantle4

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 752

11/13/12 12:20:12 PM#132

You are taking the term "clone" too literally and ignoring the greater concept behind the term WOW-clone.

Missing the forest for the trees actually.

 

+1

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19149

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/13/12 12:20:38 PM#133
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Whitebeards
No what changed is that i grew up and i don't find anything hard anymore;) 

No what changed is that I grew older and everything keeps getting harder. 

Viagra. right? (too easy)

LOL, yes, I walked right into that.  Do you think they make it for MMORPG skills, particularly PVP? 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

11/13/12 12:20:51 PM#134
Again do you know what the word clone means? hahahaha

Let me help you.

a person or thing regarded as an exact copy of another:

computer designed to simulate exactly the operation of another, typically more expensive, model:

make an identical copy of:

So unless you can show me another MMO that has WOW lore, classes, world  and name their has never been a WOW clone.

Now clones is a word that is thrown around in the MMO world that should not be in the MMO world. 

And yes Vanguard is the only decent AAA since WOW,  i have 3 level 55s and numerous atls since beta.

There is no MMO that is a clone of WOW.

Wow bias much? When you say WoW clone you mean it is extremely similiar to WoW, not a copy in every way like the definition you so cling to. Ever heard of figures of speech? Wake up you're playing an unoriginal WoW clone. Yes clone.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/13/12 12:22:48 PM#135
Originally posted by Zeppelin4

haha Viagra is account gear and as you call it white gear is a good left hand. :P

If you find that account-bound gear makes the game too easy for you, a simple solution suggests itself...

But the basic problem is that you want to level at maximum rate, using every possible advantage, and simultaneously bitch about how simple it is.

Well, duh.  Who could've imagined?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

11/13/12 12:23:32 PM#136
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by furidiam

There are no more real mmo's now. All this new stuff is catering to the short attention span customers. Look at the success of games that are out on the smart phone/face book. These new games are chasing WOW and these social games looking at the profits.

Games used to be made by gamers for gamers. Now it is corporations going after gamers wallets. This is what made games now a days what they are.

 

There are a couple of mmo since WOW that are not hand holding and the old one are still here, if you choose to play these new types of MMO then you only have yourself to blame.

Uh, there's been ONE AAA MMO since WoW came out that was challenging/not a WoW clone.

And no, those old games aren't there anymore, or we'd be playing them.

Really, so EQ isn't here no more and Ryzom and EVE,DAOC and what is a wow clone?

There has never been a WOW clone, do you know the meaning of the word clone?

Ah, you mean a MMO that has quests and level progression, if that's the case then you need to stop playing MMO because they all have some sort of progression. Whether it's levelling skills or levelling to, gain skills or questing or levelling crafting they all have it.

Time for you to stop playing MMOs.

And what AAA MMO do you think is a challenging.

There was never a WoW clone? hahaha. Oh boy. What do you think Rift, LotRO, AoC, SWTOR, and WAR's PvE are? They even have the same UI. Get some perspective. Progression isn't the issue here.

And no, EQ, DAoC, and all the pre WoW MMOs are no longer there in the form that we remember. Hence why people stopped playing.

And the only decent AAA MMORPG of the last 8 years was Vanguard. Maybe GW2 now, but that has its own gaping flaws.

Again do you know what the word clone means? hahahaha

Let me help you.

a person or thing regarded as an exact copy of another:

computer designed to simulate exactly the operation of another, typically more expensive, model:

make an identical copy of:

So unless you can show me another MMO that has WOW lore, classes, world  and name their has never been a WOW clone.

Now clones is a word that is thrown around in the MMO world that should not be in the MMO world. 

And yes Vanguard is the only decent AAA since WOW,  i have 3 level 55s and numerous atls since beta.

There is no MMO that is a clone of WOW.

You are taking the term "clone" too literally and ignoring the greater concept behind the term WOW-clone.

Missing the forest for the trees actually.

 

That's ironic because you are taking the word clone literally hence why you think all these MMOs are WOW clone when they are actually MMOs that share features from nearly every MMO ever made.

Clone is the wrong word.

Missing the forest for the trees me thinks.

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1364

11/13/12 12:24:09 PM#137

"Back in the day" MMORPG's were a niche, for a niche customer base.

With WoW, the customer base grew substantially with casuals, overwhelming the "niche" population, thusly every MMORPG ever since has been catered more towards the bigger audience (the casuals) as they bring in more money than the real 'diehards of old'.

It's just business in the end, and where the most money is made from, that's whom the companies cater for.

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

11/13/12 12:25:04 PM#138
Originally posted by JimmyYO
Again do you know what the word clone means? hahahaha

Let me help you.

a person or thing regarded as an exact copy of another:

computer designed to simulate exactly the operation of another, typically more expensive, model:

make an identical copy of:

So unless you can show me another MMO that has WOW lore, classes, world  and name their has never been a WOW clone.

Now clones is a word that is thrown around in the MMO world that should not be in the MMO world. 

And yes Vanguard is the only decent AAA since WOW,  i have 3 level 55s and numerous atls since beta.

There is no MMO that is a clone of WOW.

Wow bias much? When you say WoW clone you mean it is extremely similiar to WoW, not a copy in every way like the definition you so cling to. Ever heard of figures of speech? Wake up you're playing an unoriginal WoW clone. Yes clone.

 Exactly, I rest my case, there are no WOW clones.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/13/12 12:25:51 PM#139
Originally posted by Kyleran
LOL, yes, I walked right into that.  Do you think they make it for MMORPG skills, particularly PVP? 

Er, aren't you playing spreadsheets in space right now? What would you use em for?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Greymantle4

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 752

11/13/12 12:28:15 PM#140
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Zeppelin4

haha Viagra is account gear and as you call it white gear is a good left hand. :P

If you find that account-bound gear makes the game too easy for you, a simple solution suggests itself...

But the basic problem is that you want to level at maximum rate, using every possible advantage, and simultaneously bitch about how simple it is.

Well, duh.  Who could've imagined?

You don't give up do you. If I have to go to the extremes to have any challenge let alone fun don't you think there is something wrong? The progression in wow (gear, crafting) is a huge part on what is fun as you level. Without that what do you have left? If you want to play that way by all means go right ahead. I left the game and looked else where. The problem is I'm still looking but that is another story. 

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