Trending Games | Pirate101 | ArcheAge | Wasteland 2 | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,859,116 Users Online:0
Games:742  Posts:6,244,252
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why no themepark and sandbox can ever succeed after WoW and EVE

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search
78 posts found
  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

11/12/12 5:30:41 AM#41

I dont know about WoW and ThemeParks as I think the ThemePark concept is flawed but regarding Eve and sandbox, you are dead wrong.

Eve is an niche sandbox in the sense that it is hardcore PvP, spaceship MMO with an old archaic UI. There is tons of room for another sandbox game to be released which is none of those things and as such will appeal to sandbox gamers who are not into hardcore PvP an spaceships.

For example, I am a hardcore sandbox fan but I am not going anywhere near Eve because I am not into being a spaceship, spreadsheet UI and ultra hardcore PvP.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/12/12 5:48:51 AM#42
Originally posted by Kyleran
Put the time(sinks) back into MMOs and you'll begin to retain players again. Those who don't like this set of design won't stick around no matter what you try to do. Nothing will ever entertain them over the long term. MMORPGs used to be designed for the patient and persiverent. They could be once again.

Could be.  All we have to do is convince corporations to voluntarily gut their profits.  Easy!

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1161

11/12/12 5:51:29 AM#43

Funny thing about EVE is that although people say 'look at the numbers subbing' but when any discussion about the game talks about accounts everyone seems to have multiple. Although EVE might have x subs, the actual 'player' numbers is a lot less. Plus the game is space combat and that is a turn off for a lot of people. Another sandbox, well made, will do very nicely and htere a few up and coming.

 

Wow retains it's numbers simply because people don't want to leave a game they have played for many years to play....a copy. I honestly think that the themepark MMO is dead, or at least dying slowly, due to WOW simply because they cornered the market with a polished game and people are just not going to leave with so much invested. The success of WOW stagnated the industry so much over the last 8 years and only now are people starting to see the work begun a few years ago to come through.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

11/12/12 5:53:07 AM#44
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Kyleran
Put the time(sinks) back into MMOs and you'll begin to retain players again. Those who don't like this set of design won't stick around no matter what you try to do. Nothing will ever entertain them over the long term. MMORPGs used to be designed for the patient and persiverent. They could be once again.

Could be.  All we have to do is convince corporations to voluntarily gut their profits.  Easy!

There is no evidence showing that old time MMOs with grind are not profitable. EQ had a sustained sub. base of 200k for years, same with AC, SWG and so on and Eve is highly profitable.

Now they might not be as profitable as short-lived ThemeParks but that is like saying a football game is more profitable than a cricket game so there is no point in developing a cricket game. Not so, they are catering to two different audiences so they are not competing with each other so you can have a cricket game and a football game, just like you can have MMOs with grind like you can have easy-mode WoW type MMOs because they are not directly competing with each other.

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4138

11/12/12 6:03:25 AM#45

I disagree..

Themeparks

1. Companies need to stop trying to compete with wow anyway.. They are not going to get people to play their wow clones because well they already have wow to play..

2. They need to make and design MMOs to fit in the the average number of players MMO has not the millinos that wow has. They need to look at games before and after wow and realise most stablilize aronud 500k and slowly drop over the years.. Create their games with that in mind and they will do fine.

3. They need to make somthing different.

 

Sandbox

 

1. Well eve is nothing special, for me its a good idea but the combat is super boring and i have never been able to get into it because of that.

2. There are a shit load of upcoming sandbox games that look really good. Hell even the Everquest next will be a sandbox.

3. I have played Darkfall and Mortal Online longer than I have eve and I fine them a lot better and thats saying somthing, I know others that will never touch Eve as the dont like sci-fi games.

4. Lots of upcoming sandbox games that are looknig really good, hell EQ:next is going to be a sandbox as well.

 

So i dont play WOW or Eve as I dont really like either of them and there are many people out there that are the same.

Sure companies cant compete with them if they keep trying to release clones in wows case.. as for eve not many have tried a sandbox space game but if someone does whos to say it wont be better than eve as long as they done try and clone it LOL.. at the end of the day people who like WoW or people who like Eve wont leave those games to go play a clone its as simple as that and companies need to start moving away from maknig clones.

 

 

 

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1471

11/12/12 6:22:01 AM#46
Originally posted by MMOExposed
So I believe the question comes down to, Why is it that no other sandbox MMO has been more successful than Eve? Can any of you answer that?

Your questions is as stupid as always. Because until now no big company, no AAA sandbox have been made since SWG, and SWG was before EvE. EvE was just another indy company, but become successful and over time become AAA. Not to mention that in those early days, with not that many games playing online, SWG and UO were both more successful than EvE in comparsion to online playerbase at their time.

So the question to your answer is quite simple, because no AAA sandbox MMO after EvE has been produced.

And about the OP. If one thing is certain, than that there will be always something better. It is just a question of time. But about WoW you could be right to some point. Not that i think that there will no mmorpg with more than 10mil subs. because someday some mmorpg will have more subs. But much more, because the design pattern of those old themepark mmos like wow was may die out. Or may change so much that you cant compare it. There are no 2D Action games around like Turrican, the time for 2D Action games is over.. and that could be the case for mmorpg themeparks like WoW.

And by that i dont mean themeparks in general, but they have to evolve.. this particular genre is beaten to death.

  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 888

11/12/12 6:35:19 AM#47
Originally posted by ElderRat

 

 

 

Then there is EVE. The opposite genre of WoW. No sandbox game can ever compete with EVE. EVE nails PvP, so why play a clone of EVE's pvp system? EVE nails diplomacy, which has taken YEARS to develop. No sandbox game can ever spend enough time before its release, to develop diplomacy. On top of that, like WoW...EVE has TONS of content. So much to do. Now PvErs may not like EVE...but Ryzom is a PvE sandbox, and its dead...many polls on MMORPG and elsewhere, most people won't play a pure PvE sandbox.  They want at least SOME PvP. However, even EVE PvE got way better once they introduced events, wormholes and all that jazz...

 

 

the makers of EVE are making World of Darkness and I think that, given all the experience they have gained WoD will be awesome, and not sci-fi. Granted many may not like the vampire idea, but factor in the politics among the clans of vampires and I think it will be a game that will be as good as EVE.  

 Also never is a very long time.

i think WoD ll finished same as Star Gate Universe mmorpg,fail before work done,how long time CCP working on WoD?...oh, wait... they had huge number of employers & can work on  3 mmo's  in same time

 

i waiting for WoD but I am not optimistic!

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/12/12 6:46:32 AM#48
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Kyleran
Put the time(sinks) back into MMOs and you'll begin to retain players again. Those who don't like this set of design won't stick around no matter what you try to do. Nothing will ever entertain them over the long term. MMORPGs used to be designed for the patient and persiverent. They could be once again.

Could be.  All we have to do is convince corporations to voluntarily gut their profits.  Easy!

There is no evidence showing that old time MMOs with grind are not profitable. EQ had a sustained sub. base of 200k for years, same with AC, SWG and so on and Eve is highly profitable.

We routinely ignore games that maintained 200k subs as irrelevant...when discussing anything except EQ.

Yet 500k is a roaring success (before 2004) or an old timey classic (after).  Let's just say fan assessments of game's profitability is often skewed by what we played and liked.  There no denying that EQ enjoys a rosey pink glow far in excess of its actual enjoyability, simply by being one of the first.  In an era of minimal competition.

But Ky didn't ask for promotion of old-style games.  He asked, instead, for modern games to cut their existing player bases in half, by shifting into reverse.

No one, to date, has ever profited by rewinding the clock.  Not even DAoC and EQ, who have both experimented with 'turn back the clock' previously.  At best, it makes a handful of bitter vets smile and feel important; it doesn't save games or create profit monsters.

It's certainly never going to create a game that replicates WoW's level of success; or even EQ's.  Not everyone wants mmos to regress.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3207

"A very special kind of stupidity"

11/12/12 6:47:27 AM#49
The last time CCP mentioned anything about WoD, they confirmed that they had 60 people working on it. This was well after the layoffs.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  GreenishBlue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/12
Posts: 266

11/12/12 6:55:29 AM#50
Originally posted by MMOExposed
So I believe the question comes down to, Why is it that no other sandbox MMO has been more successful than Eve? Can any of you answer that?

 

Kids can't handle EVE. Many adults can't handle EVE. There is a market for EVE through  and players that like EVE, stick with EVE. Problem with other sandbox MMOs is that they are buggy as hell, devs are releasing MMOs in alpha state and then that's why they fail. EVE works as intended and there are players that like to play as a ship. Only one server. No cry babies!

 

Themeparks are in better shape and there has been some improvements. Sandboxes are in bad shape. Please tell me when Citadel of Sorcery (8+ years in development) will be released, and if so, one hopes the devs don't pull off a Mortal Online.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/12/12 6:56:39 AM#51
Let's have a look at pre wow days

Hardcore pve themepark - eq
Casual pve themepark - coh
Pvp orientated themepark - daoc
Fantasy sandbox - uo
Sci-fi sandbox - swg
Hybrid - ac

All coexisting quite nicely

So there is room for other games
Let's face it wow has bad pvp, so there's room for a themepark with strong pvp
Gw2 has come along and done well taking a more casual approach than wow, there is also probably room for a new EQ type game taking a more hardcore approach.
There is probably room for a sandbox that isn't sci-fi.
Also eve is very hardcore, I think there is room for a more casual friendly sandbox with a more standard mmo UI.
Finally we haven't had a proper hybrid since ac / swg so there is definetly room for a hybrid game.
  Prenho

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/29/12
Posts: 306

11/12/12 7:01:03 AM#52
Originally posted by Onomas

Thats not a very good thread, considering all game companies started out as indie lol.

The fact that blizzards first attempt at a mmo came at the perfect time when more kids were getting online and exploring the web. When mmo's first came out not many had internet access ;)

MMO's were also designed for adults, and blizzard went after the kiddies and it killed mmo's. Newage gamers wanted mmo's to be easy, non-complex, no features, just rush to the end and whine on the forums. That is what the genre has ammounted to.

Blizzard did have a name and strong experience in game making, but for single rts and single player games.

 

There are a few sandboxes coming that are very good looking and have many aspects of a true mmo and will do well. Asians are starting to swing to sandboxes because themepark market has been beaten to death multiple times. THats why no game is doing well, they are all the same, lack 75% of features a mmo should have, and are boring. THey are no more than console rpg's and its sickening.

 

I do think The repopulation, greed monger, the black desert, and of course archeage will do well. But doesnt ahve to beat WOW, wouldnt want the bad community to ruin any new games anyways. The kiddies can stay there ;)

Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by Pivotelite

 

MMOs are in trouble because this is the "I want it now generation".

God i miss the older days when you actualy had to earn something and it felt so damn good. Now everything is thrown at you and the hardest thing in a mmo is waiting til level 20 to ride a mount ;) These new aged gamers ruined the mmo genre then whine about all the console style rpgs............. errr themeparks all suck and no content lol. Funny they havent figures out that player generated content owns everything. THey lost their creativity and it has hurt our community.

It's sad to see what western players have become.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

11/12/12 12:35:21 PM#53
Originally posted by Icewhite

We routinely ignore games that maintained 200k subs as irrelevant...when discussing anything except EQ.

Yet 500k is a roaring success (before 2004) or an old timey classic (after).  Let's just say fan assessments of game's profitability is often skewed by what we played and liked.  There no denying that EQ enjoys a rosey pink glow far in excess of its actual enjoyability, simply by being one of the first.  In an era of minimal competition.

But Ky didn't ask for promotion of old-style games.  He asked, instead, for modern games to cut their existing player bases in half, by shifting into reverse.

No one, to date, has ever profited by rewinding the clock.  Not even DAoC and EQ, who have both experimented with 'turn back the clock' previously.  At best, it makes a handful of bitter vets smile and feel important; it doesn't save games or create profit monsters.

It's certainly never going to create a game that replicates WoW's level of success; or even EQ's.  Not everyone wants mmos to regress.

Well, problem is, you would have to prove that the current state actually is a "progression", what people (or at least me :) ) argue is that we are past the "sweet point"  of grind and longevity vs "simple" fun.

We also routinely ignore other games than the most famous ones (like a broken record, eq, daoc, wow, aoc, eq, daoc, wow, eve, eq) and define the themepark experience as "what happens in wow", both things skew the argument, similarly to the perception of devs and designers, that think a game MUST incorporate all the pitfalls of wow.

Flame on!

:)

 

  bigron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 43

11/12/12 2:50:44 PM#54
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Let's have a look at pre wow days

Hardcore pve themepark - eq
Casual pve themepark - coh
Pvp orientated themepark - daoc
Fantasy sandbox - uo
Sci-fi sandbox - swg
Hybrid - ac

All coexisting quite nicely

So there is room for other games
Let's face it wow has bad pvp, so there's room for a themepark with strong pvp
Gw2 has come along and done well taking a more casual approach than wow, there is also probably room for a new EQ type game taking a more hardcore approach.
There is probably room for a sandbox that isn't sci-fi.
Also eve is very hardcore, I think there is room for a more casual friendly sandbox with a more standard mmo UI.
Finally we haven't had a proper hybrid since ac / swg so there is definetly room for a hybrid game.

CoH came out the same year as WoW. DCUO is basically an updated version of CoH.  But, Vindictus, GW2 and the F2P KRPG of the week occupy similar territory.

The hardcore pve progression game is RIFT. EQ was generally considered a "sandbox" game though it was the favorite of progression raiders. Ditto EQ2.

Fallen Earth is a sandbox game. Personally I hate it, but I don't like that subgenre. Vanguard is in the same ballpark. Personally I don't think "sandbox" games ever really existed apart from Second Life.

Big budget PVP MMOs are dead outside Korea w/WAR.

No game is a giantkiller. Giants just die. Because they're old, because they get too big for their own good, etc. The reason people play WoW is because lots of people play WoW. When that stops, it stops. I can't speak to EVE, since it's privately held, but AFAIK, while it's a popular game, the company that makes it is not exactly Activision Blizzard (their stock's P/E is fabulous, btw)

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

11/12/12 3:15:58 PM#55
Originally posted by bigron
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Let's have a look at pre wow days

Hardcore pve themepark - eq
Casual pve themepark - coh
Pvp orientated themepark - daoc
Fantasy sandbox - uo
Sci-fi sandbox - swg
Hybrid - ac

All coexisting quite nicely

So there is room for other games
Let's face it wow has bad pvp, so there's room for a themepark with strong pvp
Gw2 has come along and done well taking a more casual approach than wow, there is also probably room for a new EQ type game taking a more hardcore approach.
There is probably room for a sandbox that isn't sci-fi.
Also eve is very hardcore, I think there is room for a more casual friendly sandbox with a more standard mmo UI.
Finally we haven't had a proper hybrid since ac / swg so there is definetly room for a hybrid game.

CoH came out the same year as WoW. DCUO is basically an updated version of CoH.  But, Vindictus, GW2 and the F2P KRPG of the week occupy similar territory.

The hardcore pve progression game is RIFT. EQ was generally considered a "sandbox" game though it was the favorite of progression raiders. Ditto EQ2.

Fallen Earth is a sandbox game. Personally I hate it, but I don't like that subgenre. Vanguard is in the same ballpark. Personally I don't think "sandbox" games ever really existed apart from Second Life.

Big budget PVP MMOs are dead outside Korea w/WAR.

No game is a giantkiller. Giants just die. Because they're old, because they get too big for their own good, etc. The reason people play WoW is because lots of people play WoW. When that stops, it stops. I can't speak to EVE, since it's privately held, but AFAIK, while it's a popular game, the company that makes it is not exactly Activision Blizzard (their stock's P/E is fabulous, btw)

Everquest is only a "sandbox" game if the inverted commas mean "themepark"

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5544

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

11/12/12 4:38:47 PM#56
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Icewhite

We routinely ignore games that maintained 200k subs as irrelevant...when discussing anything except EQ.

Yet 500k is a roaring success (before 2004) or an old timey classic (after).  Let's just say fan assessments of game's profitability is often skewed by what we played and liked.  There no denying that EQ enjoys a rosey pink glow far in excess of its actual enjoyability, simply by being one of the first.  In an era of minimal competition.

But Ky didn't ask for promotion of old-style games.  He asked, instead, for modern games to cut their existing player bases in half, by shifting into reverse.

No one, to date, has ever profited by rewinding the clock.  Not even DAoC and EQ, who have both experimented with 'turn back the clock' previously.  At best, it makes a handful of bitter vets smile and feel important; it doesn't save games or create profit monsters.

It's certainly never going to create a game that replicates WoW's level of success; or even EQ's.  Not everyone wants mmos to regress.

Well, problem is, you would have to prove that the current state actually is a "progression", what people (or at least me :) ) argue is that we are past the "sweet point"  of grind and longevity vs "simple" fun.

We also routinely ignore other games than the most famous ones (like a broken record, eq, daoc, wow, aoc, eq, daoc, wow, eve, eq) and define the themepark experience as "what happens in wow", both things skew the argument, similarly to the perception of devs and designers, that think a game MUST incorporate all the pitfalls of wow.

Flame on!

:)

Old MMOs were not that popular when comparing to the traditional games of the time - never as popular as they are now.

The "why MMOs became popular" was because they started to be half decent games. There is really no excuse for bug, poor UI graphics and gameplay. No excuse. Modern MMOs, even if you don't like them, have raised the bar up to the level of rest of video games. Unlike in the past, players have raised standards, and because there are so many titles out there, they don't have to settle with less.

The moment to moment fun simply wasn't there until it was streamlined, and the actual fun bits were identified and pronounced. The features you se now on the background, such as housing and crafting, are not game makers in the same scale as simple well-designed and well-made combat is. Adventuring is a lot more popular than medieval fantasy make-believe.

Meanwhile the niche audience thinks they are entitled to have an AAA MMORPG made just for them. Even more sad is that they can't agree on what should be in that game. What they list as a "must have features" I couldn't care less about. And they love to use buzz-words like "dynamic", "deep", "complex", "emergent content" and "meaningful" like they have any specific meaning at all. Without going into details, which they never give, those words mean very little.

It is like while those features are veiled behind those magic words, they can't be ripped apart. Which I and many others would do admittedly if they would publish their ideas. But hell, I've thrown my ideas to the wolves and see what survives. That should be the process, shouldn't it? I have no rose-tinted goggles when I look back to my favorite games. Conversely some people here think their game should be handled with silk gloves or else they will break.

The good then can be shit now. These games don't exist in a vacuum. All this talk of remakes and bringing back arcaic features makes me sad. Like Icewhite hinted, there's no profit in going back. It is very unlikely those titles and features in them would be accepted in the market today.

The only direction has always been forward; make new games, invent new features - don't bring back the old.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  User Deleted
11/12/12 4:45:35 PM#57
Originally posted by Quirhid
And they love to use buzz-words like "dynamic", "deep", "complex", "emergent content" and "meaningful" like they have any specific meaning at all. Without going into details, which they never give, those words mean very little.

While I'm not sure what I make of the rest of your comment, I kinda have to agree with this little tidbit. I've always constantly wondered what the hell people mean when they use these words, and because they never bother to give a definition, or just ignore my question or give REALLY vague answers, I'm completely left in the dark.

Newsflash: If you don't tell me what the hell something means to you based on your definition, I'm not going to have a clue about what you are talking about.

  ozmono

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1045

11/12/12 4:45:48 PM#58
Originally posted by Quirhid 

 No excuse. Modern MMOs, even if you don't like them, have raised the bar up to the level of rest of video games. Unlike in the past, players have raised standards, and because there are so many titles out there, they don't have to settle with less.

I agree with the sentiment and I hate to pick out a little thing I disagree with but MMOs still have catch up to play if they want to be on equal footing with gameplay mechanics from single player games. That said I do agree that they have gotten better and that they are closing the gap.

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

11/12/12 4:47:15 PM#59

I always laugh when I see people like the OP try to speak in absolutes about anything having to do with tech or human nature.

For starters, the whole design and setting of EVE only attracts certain people. Many sandbox lovers, like myself, dig EVE in concept, but don't like how the space game plays.  CCP themselves know they are missing a lot of market share for this reason, and they have plans to eventually expand into it if they can.

I'm sure no one thought Facebook would kill MySpace virtually overnight as well.  Never say never, unless you are hell-bent on being proven wrong.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1471

11/12/12 5:02:37 PM#60
Originally posted by Enigmatus
Originally posted by Quirhid
And they love to use buzz-words like "dynamic", "deep", "complex", "emergent content" and "meaningful" like they have any specific meaning at all. Without going into details, which they never give, those words mean very little.

While I'm not sure what I make of the rest of your comment, I kinda have to agree with this little tidbit. I've always constantly wondered what the hell people mean when they use these words, and because they never bother to give a definition, or just ignore my question or give REALLY vague answers, I'm completely left in the dark.

Newsflash: If you don't tell me what the hell something means to you based on your definition, I'm not going to have a clue about what you are talking about.

Ok.. maybe i write tomorrow a 2 page long post do break down those words, and what i mean when i use them. But at the moment i dont have the time to write 2 hours for such a post. I hope you will really read it. then. Its Midnight here. ;)

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search