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Originally posted by sunshadow21

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Originally posted by zymurgeist

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Originally posted by sunshadow21

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Originally posted by zymurgeist  Case sensetive passwords aren't industry standard. You would be surprised how many online games don't use them. They don't prevent hacking or phishing either. Adding it would just get you complaints from all the numbnuts who can't be bothered to remember or protect their passwords.They do care what caused the problem. They just can't fix it without firing their customers.

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If that's the case, you just gave me another reason not to bother with their games. If that many people in their customer base are bothered by something as simple as case sensitive passwords, Im pretty sure that Im not to going to agree with them on much else either.

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 I'll clue you in on something they'll deny for P.R. reasons. If you aren't going to do anything but complain about their products and not buy them they don't give a damn what you think.

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And as long as no one I want to buy products from copies them, I don't care. My stance is as much for the companies that haven't yet lost my business as it is for those that have, so they know what not to do if they want to keep it. And if enough people decide they don't feel like buying a product, the company is going to start to notice; while Blizzard doesn't have to worry too much right now, their day will come when such things are going to matter a lot more, and by then the damage will already be done.

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Excuse me Sunshadow, but I'd like to know who are these games that you are talking about that have good security system and that playerbase and popularity of Blizzard's games?
You seem quite an expertise, yet you are not offering any solution nor do you offer any solid facts that will reaffirm your statements.

In my entire gaming life, I've only been hacked once, and that was due to visiting a phishy website by my own mistake, never once since then I was being hacked. Not on any single damn game and every MMO I have accounts for.
I do receive e-mails that say my account have been compromised, but it's not true because those are the phishy e-mails that get you into trouble, thus leading into your account being hacked.

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Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

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Originally posted by Nadia

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Originally posted by Xiaoki The class action lawsuit over Sony's Playstation Network being hacked was thrown out of court. The same is likely to happen here.

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sounds reasonable http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57538716-93/sony-psn-hacking-lawsuit-dismissed-by-judge/

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There is a difference here though, sony was a victim to a crime, they were attacked on a massive scale. Every battlenet hack has always been against the individual.

 
What about trion worlds completely free coin lock system? which requires you to sign in with a combination of either your cell phone or email everytime you change ip,  instead blizzard charged 10 bucks + shipping for a piece of plastic, which btw breaks, because mine did the first time i bought one of these many years ago.

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So, yes, Blizzard is the victim of a crime and Blizzard was attacked on a massive scale.

This is covered in the article that linked in the OP that you obviously didnt read.

Also, if you log into WoW from a different IP it locks your entire WoW account. Which is a tougher system than Rift's Coin Lock system.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so please stop talking.

Originally posted by Razperil

Originally posted by Latronus

Originally posted by Kaerigan

Originally posted by Xiaoki

The Authenticator it to try and "fix stupid". 9 times out of 10 when someone gets hacked it is because they went to a bad website. But people never want to admit they clicked on a shady link in an e-mail or went to a bad website.

And then there are people like me. I've got separate passwords for my Battle.net account and the email it is tied to. My account got locked for "suspicious activity". I changed both passwords and even bought a new computer (not because of that incident, of course, it was just time to upgrade). Now my account is locked again. And NO, I have honestly not attempted logging on to any totallylegitbattlenetfreegold.com or something retarded like that. I haven't shared my passwords with ANYONE.

This is the only one of my hundreds of accounts on various websites that has been compromised.

It's not like I have any proof but sometimes I wonder what the fuck Blizzard is up to.

Stop talking common sense with the Blizzard fanbois.  They will ever accept that something very fishy is going on with battle net now matter what happens.  They love to blame the players or the fact that WoW has some many players which is a factor, but they'll never believe that blizzard is doing anything fishy in an attempt to make more profit.  They could even have a news conference and admit it and the fanbois would have some excuse to not believe them.  Nothing should ever be outside the realm of possibility when it comes to a company and extra profit.

You pin-pointed it perfectly. Any time Blizzard makes any news, immediately it is dismissed as not being possible or true. I find it sickening that for some reason that company can do no wrong, even when it has been shown they have. There is no excuse for lack security for any reason. The lawsuit will win due to the factors stated. It doesn't matter if it wasn't part of the actual security system or not, people still paid to be more protected and it does seem that not one drop of the 26 million even went into decreasing any security risks, or even strengthening it for that matter (based on their continued security issues). All that company cares about is the $$$. Maybe one day those fanbois will see that too.

P.S- Look at what Sony did when the PS3 network was hacked. They made a whole NEW security network from scratch! That right there shows that they do CARE about their customers/fanbase/users. :) Something Blizzard needs to learn.

If Sony cares so much for their mmo customers, why are they also sellilng authenticators instead of making sure their security is good enough not to need to sell them?  Or better yet, why aren't they giving them away for free?

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

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Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

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Originally posted by Nadia

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Originally posted by Xiaoki The class action lawsuit over Sony's Playstation Network being hacked was thrown out of court. The same is likely to happen here.

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sounds reasonable http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57538716-93/sony-psn-hacking-lawsuit-dismissed-by-judge/

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There is a difference here though, sony was a victim to a crime, they were attacked on a massive scale. Every battlenet hack has always been against the individual.

 

 
What about trion worlds completely free coin lock system? which requires you to sign in with a combination of either your cell phone or email everytime you change ip,  instead blizzard charged 10 bucks + shipping for a piece of plastic, which btw breaks, because mine did the first time i bought one of these many years ago.

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This isnt an individual lawsuit, its a class action lawsuit when Battle.net was hacked.

 

So, yes, Blizzard is the victim of a crime and Blizzard was attacked on a massive scale.

This is covered in the article that linked in the OP that you obviously didnt read.

Also, if you log into WoW from a different IP it locks your entire WoW account. Which is a tougher system than Rift's Coin Lock system.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so please stop talking.

When did they start locking accounts for loging in from a different IP?  It has to have been sometime after this summer.  My wife's account had no problems logging in from 3 different states in the span of a weekend when we were making a long trip and staying overnight in hotels.

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by sunshadow21

Originally posted by Phry

do you have any links to this 'history' of loose security by any chance, other than hearsay that is.. .. thought not.

One, I tried downloading the trial for WOW, directly from them (no other sites, except perhaps this one, which has not given me trouble, were involved), played it for a week, and I'm still getting emails about my account, years later. Never had anything even close happen with anybody else, and I've tried a lot of games out over the years. Two, the problems I encountered with D2 on the on Battlenet the few times I bothered to venture onto it were enough to make me not bother very often. Three, if you genuinely believe that every single customer that has claimed problems with Blizzard brought it on themselves, you are delusional; at some point, there amasses enough circumstancial evidence that it becomes clear that at least some of it has to be valid, and Blizzard is well past that point.

it's brought on by hackers.  wether on not battle.net got hacked is one thing.  but most account hacks are from users using the same email and password for everything.  hackers with hack into databases of game forums.  and then proceed to use those emails and passwords to get into peoples gaming accounts.  blizzard has no control over that.  im sure they could have better security but people need to stop pointing fingers.  if your acccount gets hacked it's becuase you weren't smart enough to keep your email and password safe.  by not using the same one everytime.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

I quit WoW shortly after WotLK was released.  Well over a year later, my account was hacked. And I had a very strong alphanumeric password which was nowhere near similar to any of my other passwords.

Not keeping it safe? The ONLY place I had it, was inside my own head.

I assure you, given the time from my last login, to the time I got hacked, combined with a strong password, the fault was NOT on my end. Blizzard have admitted at least once to have been hacked - you are extremely naive if you believe that has happened only once.

Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by sunshadow21

Originally posted by Phry

do you have any links to this 'history' of loose security by any chance, other than hearsay that is.. .. thought not.

One, I tried downloading the trial for WOW, directly from them (no other sites, except perhaps this one, which has not given me trouble, were involved), played it for a week, and I'm still getting emails about my account, years later. Never had anything even close happen with anybody else, and I've tried a lot of games out over the years. Two, the problems I encountered with D2 on the on Battlenet the few times I bothered to venture onto it were enough to make me not bother very often. Three, if you genuinely believe that every single customer that has claimed problems with Blizzard brought it on themselves, you are delusional; at some point, there amasses enough circumstancial evidence that it becomes clear that at least some of it has to be valid, and Blizzard is well past that point.

it's brought on by hackers.  wether on not battle.net got hacked is one thing.  but most account hacks are from users using the same email and password for everything.  hackers with hack into databases of game forums.  and then proceed to use those emails and passwords to get into peoples gaming accounts.  blizzard has no control over that.  im sure they could have better security but people need to stop pointing fingers.  if your acccount gets hacked it's becuase you weren't smart enough to keep your email and password safe.  by not using the same one everytime.

 

You really don't know what you're talking about.

I quit WoW shortly after WotLK was released.  Well over a year later, my account was hacked. And I had a very strong alphanumeric password which was nowhere near similar to any of my other passwords.

Not keeping it safe? The ONLY place I had it, was inside my own head.

I assure you, given the time from my last login, to the time I got hacked, combined with a strong password, the fault was NOT on my end. Blizzard have admitted at least once to have been hacked - you are extremely naive if you believe that has happened only once.

 Unfortunately so many people have said that so many times and proven to be liars than no one believes it any more. Usually when they do it they call  others things like "extremely naive"  too. So while I can't say for sure what happened to you I can say the only people likely to believe you, or pretend to believe you, are Blizzard critics. I do know that according to Blizzard and every security pro I've talked to it's almost never hacking and almost always phishing or third party sights that compromises WoW accounts.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 Unfortunately so many people have said that so many times and proven to be liars than no one believes it any more. Usually when they do it they call  others things like "extremely naive"  too. So while I can't say for sure what happened to you I can say the only people likely to believe you, or pretend to believe you, are Blizzard critics. I do know that according to Blizzard and every security pro I've talked to it's almost never hacking and almost always phishing or third party sights that compromises WoW accounts.

Unfortunately, that stance has also been clearly stated, and disproven, enough to make it equally suspect. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, and no one, including, and perhaps especially, Blizzard, wants to have the conversation of how to contain the problem because that would require direct action against the hackers, phishers, and third parties, which would require Blizzard to spend money. At this point, I think both sides are nuts. Authenticators are, at least, a decent start, and I see no reason to believe malice is behind Blizzard's current nonposition. On the other hand, the amount of money it would take for Blizzard to actually take on the third party problems is miniscule compared to how much they currently make, and even more miniscule compared to how they could be making if they showed some balls and actually supported a friendly environment to game in. They slap band aids on the wounds, heal the symptoms, and don't care about how much more they could be making if they only put just a little bit of effort into containing those third parties that keep dragging them through the mud.

I think the lawsuit will be interesting to watch. Blizzard will have a hard time proving they couldn't have done more, given the sheer length of time they've had to face the problem. Even if they don't lose, it still might be enough to force them, and the gaming industry as a whole, to seriously rethink their whole strategy and approach to containing problems related to third party abuses.

Originally posted by sunshadow21

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 Unfortunately so many people have said that so many times and proven to be liars than no one believes it any more. Usually when they do it they call  others things like "extremely naive"  too. So while I can't say for sure what happened to you I can say the only people likely to believe you, or pretend to believe you, are Blizzard critics. I do know that according to Blizzard and every security pro I've talked to it's almost never hacking and almost always phishing or third party sights that compromises WoW accounts.

Unfortunately, that stance has also been clearly stated, and disproven, enough to make it equally suspect. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, and no one, including, and perhaps especially, Blizzard, wants to have the conversation of how to contain the problem because that would require direct action against the hackers, phishers, and third parties, which would require Blizzard to spend money. At this point, I think both sides are nuts. Authenticators are, at least, a decent start, and I see no reason to believe malice is behind Blizzard's current nonposition. On the other hand, the amount of money it would take for Blizzard to actually take on the third party problems is miniscule compared to how much they currently make, and even more miniscule compared to how they could be making if they showed some balls and actually supported a friendly environment to game in. They slap band aids on the wounds, heal the symptoms, and don't care about how much more they could be making if they only put just a little bit of effort into containing those third parties that keep dragging them through the mud.

I think the lawsuit will be interesting to watch. Blizzard will have a hard time proving they couldn't have done more, given the sheer length of time they've had to face the problem. Even if they don't lose, it still might be enough to force them, and the gaming industry as a whole, to seriously rethink their whole strategy and approach to containing problems related to third party abuses.

Blizzard doesn't have to prove anything but that they comply with industry standard security practices. A low bar they'll easily hurdle. The plaintiffs have to prove damage. I don't see that happening. There isn't anything Blizard can do beyond the current that won't drive away more customers than it gains them. If there were they would be doing it. They already spend millions on security. It's just not that simple to combat.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Blizzard doesn't have to prove anything but that they comply with industry standard security practices. A low bar they'll easily hurdle.

I sincerely hope you're wrong. If industry standards are that low, a lawsuit like this is needed to bring them up.

Would be a weird judgement, in case of a miracle.

1 million players bought an authenicator at 8 bucks a pop.  However, their purchase undeniably provided some utility, so aa partial refund is the maximum judgement this court can rule.  "Judgement against Blizzard, track those players down and refund them two dollars each, adjusted for inflation".

Ludicrous.

Authenticators can't save you if they break into the server and steal all the data.

That was part of the fiasco here - there was enough information stolen that accounts can, and were, broken into - including those tied to authenticators. Because they had security questions & answers, they were able to go around the authenticator protection. There was some speculation if the mobile authenticator was hacked as well (since enough data was taken) - but I don't think that was ever proven. The "text/call" authenticator option proved to be utterly worthless - they had enough data they would just change the call-back number (and to Bliz's credit, they have disabled this form).

Not every "hack" is because the user is stupid. Most, but not all. Once they were able to get into Bliz's servers, the liability is all on Bliz at that point. The lawsuit probably will get thrown out (because they would have to prove willful negligence, which I don't think you can do), but that doesn't necessarily mean that Bliz isn't at fault (at least partially) either.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Would be a weird judgement, in case of a miracle.

1 million players bought an authenicator at 8 bucks a pop.  However, their purchase undeniably provided some utility, so aa partial refund is the maximum judgement this court can rule.  "Judgement against Blizzard, track those players down and refund them two dollars each, adjusted for inflation".

Ludicrous.

More likely would be a judgment or settlement that found some middle ground where Blizzard would do something more on their end to make Bnet more secure (and there is more they can do; they just don't want to, and until someone forces them to, they won't), while the other side acknowledged that they can't force Blizzard to abandon Bnet.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by sunshadow21

Originally posted by Phry

do you have any links to this 'history' of loose security by any chance, other than hearsay that is.. .. thought not.

One, I tried downloading the trial for WOW, directly from them (no other sites, except perhaps this one, which has not given me trouble, were involved), played it for a week, and I'm still getting emails about my account, years later. Never had anything even close happen with anybody else, and I've tried a lot of games out over the years. Two, the problems I encountered with D2 on the on Battlenet the few times I bothered to venture onto it were enough to make me not bother very often. Three, if you genuinely believe that every single customer that has claimed problems with Blizzard brought it on themselves, you are delusional; at some point, there amasses enough circumstancial evidence that it becomes clear that at least some of it has to be valid, and Blizzard is well past that point.

it's brought on by hackers.  wether on not battle.net got hacked is one thing.  but most account hacks are from users using the same email and password for everything.  hackers with hack into databases of game forums.  and then proceed to use those emails and passwords to get into peoples gaming accounts.  blizzard has no control over that.  im sure they could have better security but people need to stop pointing fingers.  if your acccount gets hacked it's becuase you weren't smart enough to keep your email and password safe.  by not using the same one everytime.

 

You really don't know what you're talking about.

I quit WoW shortly after WotLK was released.  Well over a year later, my account was hacked. And I had a very strong alphanumeric password which was nowhere near similar to any of my other passwords.

Not keeping it safe? The ONLY place I had it, was inside my own head.

I assure you, given the time from my last login, to the time I got hacked, combined with a strong password, the fault was NOT on my end. Blizzard have admitted at least once to have been hacked - you are extremely naive if you believe that has happened only once.

 Unfortunately so many people have said that so many times and proven to be liars than no one believes it any more. Usually when they do it they call  others things like "extremely naive"  too. So while I can't say for sure what happened to you I can say the only people likely to believe you, or pretend to believe you, are Blizzard critics. I do know that according to Blizzard and every security pro I've talked to it's almost never hacking and almost always phishing or third party sights that compromises WoW accounts.

Poor attempts on masking a "you are a liear" comment, feel free to be more direct next time.

I'm not a Blizzard hater, in fact, i have 4 active WoW accounts. I've already talked about that a couple of times in multiboxing discussions. But I do not swallow everything Blizzard feeds me. And I certainly don't believe that unless Blizzard tells me there are problems, everything is perfect. Which clearly seperates us two, proven both by your comment about who migh believe me (or "pretend" to believe me), and your "according to Blizzard". Please, learn to think for yourself, it won't hurt you.

Before you continue attacking my "lies", take a look at your own statements. I doubt many belives you have actually talked to a lot of "security pros" about this. You're doing what you're accusing me for, and it doesn't seem you're even realizing it.

Originally posted by Razperil

P.S- Look at what Sony did when the PS3 network was hacked. They made a whole NEW security network from scratch! That right there shows that they do CARE about their customers/fanbase/users. :) Something Blizzard needs to learn.

Maybe because Blizzards network has never been hacked like Sony's or Turbine's were.  They HAD to fix everything after that event.

Originally posted by Ridelynn

Authenticators can't save you if they break into the server and steal all the data.

That was part of the fiasco here - there was enough information stolen that accounts can, and were, broken into - including those tied to authenticators. Because they had security questions & answers, they were able to go around the authenticator protection. There was some speculation if the mobile authenticator was hacked as well (since enough data was taken) - but I don't think that was ever proven. The "text/call" authenticator option proved to be utterly worthless - they had enough data they would just change the call-back number (and to Bliz's credit, they have disabled this form).

You're spreading a lot of falsehoods here.  Blizzard was never hacked of account names/passwords like sony and others were.

Originally posted by zipzap

Originally posted by Roxtarr
Authenticators weren't created because of bad security on Blizzard's end.  They were created to protect gamers from themselves.

very true and the mobile version is also free...

Yes I totally agree with this. If you are very tight on security you prob wont get hacked but most people are not like that so an extra layer of protection is always welcomed. The authenticator is free if you own almost ANY type of phone so I am dumbfounded at the notion that blizzard is profitting from the sell of them. Only way they get any money its if you are actually buying a physical copy, but then again you cant expect them to hand it out for free.... Oh yah thats right, they give me like 10 of those every year at blizzcon...