Originally posted by muffins89

they aren't blaming the consumers.  they are doing there part and the consumers need to take responsibility and do their part.

Which apparently is spend even more money for a product that, if it really is that necessary, should have been included with the original product. Still not buying the argument.  I deal with companies online  that routinely process real money that don't require an authenticator, and yet, somehow a mere gaming company believes its the only way to resolve their complaints and that anyone who suggests that more could be done is wrong. That is the problem I have with Blizzard's position; the idea of an authenicator is not a bad one, but to put it out there as the primary line of defense when many other companies that deal with far greater security threats on a daily basis don't even feel they need to mention it as an option is absurd.

Originally posted by Gishgeron

Originally posted by Kaynos1972
I hope the guy wins. This will send a very good message to other game company. Data security is not something to be taken lightly to force user to buy authenticator, it should be the same level for everyone.

 

  The authenticator has nothing to do with Blizzards internal security.  Its a fail safe to prevent the USERS END MACHINE from causing a problem.  You see, internal security prevents stuff like hackers and whatnot stealing sensitive information stored on Blizzards servers.  But they can't prevent YOU from getting a keylogger or Trojan during your time on the internet.  People do stupid crap online.  The most Blizzard can do is lock the account if its seen logging in from vastly different locations.  Otherwise, the person "hacking your account" did the same thing you would do.  Used your ID and Password.  They got it from your computer thanks to a keylogger.  Blizzard already DOES freeze accounts that log in from crazy different locations...but THEN you still have people who go on vacation and whine about losing access because they tried to log in from Florida 12 hours after logging in from Texas. 

  The aunthenticator is a system that helps the user from himself.  Even if the keylogger gets your information...it can't get the authenticator.  Without it, they still can't access your account.    But its not fair to think its Blizzards responsibility to provide that to you.  The end user COULD be more careful with their machines.  This is akin to blaming the dealership because you chose to drive the car 89 miles an hour with the e-brake on.  Yes, they are responsible for providing quality, not for your ignorance.  In fact, they should never have even sold the authenticator.  Anyone too stupid to check their system once in awhile probably deserves to have their shit compromised.

The authenticator would block someone that stole e-mail and password from blizzard servers. Which is exactly what the lawsuit mention. Sure some people hit that phishing site or got keyloged, nothing can prevent that, but if the servers really got hacked as the lawsuit indicate it's a totally different matter, since I don't remember blizzard telling people that they got hacked.

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by Gishgeron

Originally posted by Kaynos1972
I hope the guy wins. This will send a very good message to other game company. Data security is not something to be taken lightly to force user to buy authenticator, it should be the same level for everyone.

 

  The authenticator has nothing to do with Blizzards internal security.  Its a fail safe to prevent the USERS END MACHINE from causing a problem.  You see, internal security prevents stuff like hackers and whatnot stealing sensitive information stored on Blizzards servers.  But they can't prevent YOU from getting a keylogger or Trojan during your time on the internet.  People do stupid crap online.  The most Blizzard can do is lock the account if its seen logging in from vastly different locations.  Otherwise, the person "hacking your account" did the same thing you would do.  Used your ID and Password.  They got it from your computer thanks to a keylogger.  Blizzard already DOES freeze accounts that log in from crazy different locations...but THEN you still have people who go on vacation and whine about losing access because they tried to log in from Florida 12 hours after logging in from Texas. 

  The aunthenticator is a system that helps the user from himself.  Even if the keylogger gets your information...it can't get the authenticator.  Without it, they still can't access your account.    But its not fair to think its Blizzards responsibility to provide that to you.  The end user COULD be more careful with their machines.  This is akin to blaming the dealership because you chose to drive the car 89 miles an hour with the e-brake on.  Yes, they are responsible for providing quality, not for your ignorance.  In fact, they should never have even sold the authenticator.  Anyone too stupid to check their system once in awhile probably deserves to have their shit compromised.

The authenticator would block someone that stole e-mail and password from blizzard servers. Which is exactly what the lawsuit mention. Sure some people hit that phishing site or got keyloged, nothing can prevent that, but if the servers really got hacked as the lawsuit indicate it's a totally different matter, since I don't remember blizzard telling people that they got hacked.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/08/09/blizzards-battle-net-hacked-company-recommends-all-users-change-their-passwords/

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Phry
Sounds more like some dodgy lawyer type out to either  make a name for themselves or/and money, though how you managed to link Blizzard and Sony together in this, is just weird. More than likely the attempted lawsuit will fail anyway, its a bit like the google vs apple thing, its only newsworthy if its successful, so to speak, lawsuits are just an occupational hazard for large companies, especially with so many chancers around.

Well, one of the big ones for me is the whole thing with selling authenticators.

If Bliz knew people needed to use an authenticator, they they knew that their network/acct security was not good enough. If they knew their security was not good enough, they should have fixed it. They can afford it.

And they REALLY shouldn't have charged people for a separate product to make up for that shoddy system in place to protect people's personal data.

They should have either incorporated the authenticator functionality into the main program, or given the authenticator away for free.

 

And yet Blizzard arent the only company to have authenticators as an option, the reality is that they do add significant levels of security to any game,  or online service as you can get authenticators now for bank accounts etc. Blizzard even went so far as to make the mobile app authenticator virtually free, its only the physical tokens that are in any way, 'expensive' and tbh, at £6 its hardly that. no, this lawsuit will be thrown out, chances are if you look at the guy attempting this, is that he has a history of dodgy lawsuits initiated by him, and that the only thing he is about is money, personally i wouldnt give them the time of day, as you usually find the same types are also into 'ambulance chasing' the only thing that surprises me is that anybody gives them any credence whatsoever.

Not only that, but they did give them away for free for a time when they were apparently being inundated with users having their accounts compromised.  My wife got a free physical authenticator when her account was compromised.  (This was about a year and a half ago now).

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by Gishgeron

Originally posted by Kaynos1972
I hope the guy wins. This will send a very good message to other game company. Data security is not something to be taken lightly to force user to buy authenticator, it should be the same level for everyone.

 

  The authenticator has nothing to do with Blizzards internal security.  Its a fail safe to prevent the USERS END MACHINE from causing a problem.  You see, internal security prevents stuff like hackers and whatnot stealing sensitive information stored on Blizzards servers.  But they can't prevent YOU from getting a keylogger or Trojan during your time on the internet.  People do stupid crap online.  The most Blizzard can do is lock the account if its seen logging in from vastly different locations.  Otherwise, the person "hacking your account" did the same thing you would do.  Used your ID and Password.  They got it from your computer thanks to a keylogger.  Blizzard already DOES freeze accounts that log in from crazy different locations...but THEN you still have people who go on vacation and whine about losing access because they tried to log in from Florida 12 hours after logging in from Texas. 

  The aunthenticator is a system that helps the user from himself.  Even if the keylogger gets your information...it can't get the authenticator.  Without it, they still can't access your account.    But its not fair to think its Blizzards responsibility to provide that to you.  The end user COULD be more careful with their machines.  This is akin to blaming the dealership because you chose to drive the car 89 miles an hour with the e-brake on.  Yes, they are responsible for providing quality, not for your ignorance.  In fact, they should never have even sold the authenticator.  Anyone too stupid to check their system once in awhile probably deserves to have their shit compromised.

The authenticator would block someone that stole e-mail and password from blizzard servers. Which is exactly what the lawsuit mention. Sure some people hit that phishing site or got keyloged, nothing can prevent that, but if the servers really got hacked as the lawsuit indicate it's a totally different matter, since I don't remember blizzard telling people that they got hacked.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/08/09/blizzards-battle-net-hacked-company-recommends-all-users-change-their-passwords/

Well then I don't see why people keep saying it's the players fault 99% of the time. If there was a lot of hacked account after the servers got hacked it's a pretty easy lawsuit to win.

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Originally posted by Azoth

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Originally posted by muffins89

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Originally posted by Azoth

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Originally posted by Gishgeron

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Originally posted by Kaynos1972 I hope the guy wins. This will send a very good message to other game company. Data security is not something to be taken lightly to force user to buy authenticator, it should be the same level for everyone.

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    The authenticator has nothing to do with Blizzards internal security.  Its a fail safe to prevent the USERS END MACHINE from causing a problem.  You see, internal security prevents stuff like hackers and whatnot stealing sensitive information stored on Blizzards servers.  But they can't prevent YOU from getting a keylogger or Trojan during your time on the internet.  People do stupid crap online.  The most Blizzard can do is lock the account if its seen logging in from vastly different locations.  Otherwise, the person "hacking your account" did the same thing you would do.  Used your ID and Password.  They got it from your computer thanks to a keylogger.  Blizzard already DOES freeze accounts that log in from crazy different locations...but THEN you still have people who go on vacation and whine about losing access because they tried to log in from Florida 12 hours after logging in from Texas.    The aunthenticator is a system that helps the user from himself.  Even if the keylogger gets your information...it can't get the authenticator.  Without it, they still can't access your account.    But its not fair to think its Blizzards responsibility to provide that to you.  The end user COULD be more careful with their machines.  This is akin to blaming the dealership because you chose to drive the car 89 miles an hour with the e-brake on.  Yes, they are responsible for providing quality, not for your ignorance.  In fact, they should never have even sold the authenticator.  Anyone too stupid to check their system once in awhile probably deserves to have their shit compromised.

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The authenticator would block someone that stole e-mail and password from blizzard servers. Which is exactly what the lawsuit mention. Sure some people hit that phishing site or got keyloged, nothing can prevent that, but if the servers really got hacked as the lawsuit indicate it's a totally different matter, since I don't remember blizzard telling people that they got hacked.

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http://www.macrumors.com/2012/08/09/blizzards-battle-net-hacked-company-recommends-all-users-change-their-passwords/

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Well then I don't see why people keep saying it's the players fault 99% of the time. If there was a lot of hacked account after the servers got hacked it's a pretty easy lawsuit to win.

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This lawsuit will likely be thrown out.

Here's the Sony PSN lawsuit
http://www.gamespot.com/news/us-judge-dismisses-majority-of-psn-class-action-lawsuit-6398708

Here's an excerpt that applies to this case:

Battaglia said that users should have been well aware that Sony's security was not "perfect", finding that all users had signed a Sony Privacy Policy that included "clear admonitory language" detailing that Sony's security was the way it was, and thus "no reasonable consumer could have been deceived".

Battaglia also dismissed the bailment charge with prejudice, due to the fact that the plaintiffs admitted that their personal information was stolen as a result of a criminal data breach that had nothing to do with Sony.

Basically
No security system is perfect
ToS covers this kind of stuff
When a company is hacked its not the companies fault, its the hacker's

Originally posted by Xiaoki

Basically
No security system is perfect
ToS covers this kind of stuff
When a company is hacked its not the companies fault, its the hacker's

Assuming that the company can prove they have done everything reasonable on their end, and the authenticator may or may not prove to be enough to meet that requirement, given that such technology could easily be incorporated into the software on their end without having to burden the consumer with the requirement of using one, even if it is still a good idea to provide double coverage. Trying to compare the lawsuits is tough, given that while Sony had many detractors for many reasons, security of their data has not been one of the persisting issues. It may prove to be harder for Blizzard to brush such concerns aside when any lawyer worth the price should be able to find multiple legitimate examples, not just recently, but going a long way back.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

The class action lawsuit over Sony's Playstation Network being hacked was thrown out of court.

The same is likely to happen here.

sounds reasonable

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57538716-93/sony-psn-hacking-lawsuit-dismissed-by-judge/

Originally posted by FrodoFragins
There will be no settlement and Blizzard will not lose this case if it goes forward.

Most likely outcome.

Originally posted by biggarfoot
I think the guy has a strong case, like was qouted $26m  from authenticators and blizzard didnt secure players data sufficiently, all that data should of been encrypted.  To many companies are keeping personal data on their customers to freely and need to be made accountable.

What are you talking about?  Probably 95% of player hacks are due to people using the their Blizzard password at compromised 3rd party sites or downloading keyloggers to their computers.  When has anyone ever accessed players login info from Blizzard directly?

I've never opened a phishing email in my life, and yet my account has been hacked probably about 5 times over the years.  Strangely, I never had this issue before the switch to battle.net.  

It's a conflict of interest when Blizzard can make money when accounts get hacked.  What motivation do they have to double down on account security when greater account security equals less authenticators sold?

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by biggarfoot
I think the guy has a strong case, like was qouted $26m  from authenticators and blizzard didnt secure players data sufficiently, all that data should of been encrypted.  To many companies are keeping personal data on their customers to freely and need to be made accountable.

What are you talking about?  Probably 95% of player hacks are due to people using the their Blizzard password at compromised 3rd party sites or downloading keyloggers to their computers.  When has anyone ever accessed players login info from Blizzard directly?

While you may be accurate with the percentage, the fact still remains that other games and companies make just as good a target as Blizzard, and yet don't have nearly the same amount of problem. There is something to what Blizzard either is or is not doing that makes it a bigger problem than what it would be if is was simply the fault of the user. Whatever it can be traced all the way back to when the original battlenet only had the original diablo to worry about. That is going to potentially cause Blizzard some heartburn, even if it isn't enough to make them lose the lawsuit completely.

Originally posted by sunshadow21

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by biggarfoot
I think the guy has a strong case, like was qouted $26m  from authenticators and blizzard didnt secure players data sufficiently, all that data should of been encrypted.  To many companies are keeping personal data on their customers to freely and need to be made accountable.

What are you talking about?  Probably 95% of player hacks are due to people using the their Blizzard password at compromised 3rd party sites or downloading keyloggers to their computers.  When has anyone ever accessed players login info from Blizzard directly?

While you may be accurate with the percentage, the fact still remains that other games and companies make just as good a target as Blizzard, and yet don't have nearly the same amount of problem. There is something to what Blizzard either is or is not doing that makes it a bigger problem than what it would be if is was simply the fault of the user. Whatever it can be traced all the way back to when the original battlenet only had the original diablo to worry about. That is going to potentially cause Blizzard some heartburn, even if it isn't enough to make them lose the lawsuit completely.

Blizzard makes massively popular games.  It's as simple as that.  The reward for hacking Blizzard accounts is much higher than for other games in the same genre.

They don't really make a profit on authenticators and they offer free authenticator apps for smartphones.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Blizzard makes massively popular games.  It's as simple as that.  The reward for hacking Blizzard accounts is much higher than for other games in the same genre.

 

They don't really make a profit on authenticators and they offer free authenticator apps for smartphones.

Two problems with that. Other companies make equally popular products both in the same field and in other fields, yet they choose to address the root problems rather than saying they can't do anything about it, even if it costs them a bit more extra money up front. The reward for hacking Blizzard accounts is much higher because Blizzard does nothing to reduce the reward or increase the penalty; other companies make an effort to at least keep the problem in check, even if they can't remove it entirely. The other problem with your argument is that the problems didn't start when they reached a level of popularity where it was profitable to hack them, they started from the very beginning of battlenet. Even as early as the original diablo, which, while popular, was not popular enough to warrant massive amounts of extra attention by itself, had constant hacking problems when played on battlenet. Even at it's lowest, Blizzard has always had more problems in that area than most companies have had ever; that means that it's popularity, while certainly a factor, is not the only contributing cause, nor are the web surfing habits of it's customers. Something within Blizzard itself is part of the problem; defining that something is beyond my capability, but until that something is acknowledged and addressed, no amount of player driven actions, including the authenticator, is going to reduce the problem that Blizzard games have with hackers.

Originally posted by sunshadow21

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Blizzard makes massively popular games.  It's as simple as that.  The reward for hacking Blizzard accounts is much higher than for other games in the same genre.

 

They don't really make a profit on authenticators and they offer free authenticator apps for smartphones.

Two problems with that. Other companies make equally popular products both in the same field and in other fields, yet they choose to address the root problems rather than saying they can't do anything about it. The reward for hacking Blizzard accounts is much higher because Blizzard does nothing to reduce the reward or increase the penalty; other companies make an effort to at least keep the problem in check, even if they can't remove it entirely. The other problem with your argument is that the problems didn't start when they reached a level of popularity where it was profitable to hack them, they started from the very beginning of battlenet. Even as early as the original diablo, which, while popular, was not popular enough to warrant massive amounts of extra attention by itself, had constant hacking problems when played on battlenet. Even at it's lowest, Blizzard has always had more problems in that area than most companies have had ever; that means that it's popularity, while certainly a factor, is not the only contributing cause, nor are the web surfing habits of it's customers. Something within Blizzard itself is part of the problem; defining that something is beyond my capability, but until that something is acknowledged and addressed, no amount of player driven actions, including the authenticator, is going to reduce the problem that Blizzard games have with hackers.

Why don't you start giving us tangible info.

What exactly is Blizzard doing wrong?

What is wrong with offering authenticators at cost, that can avoid most hacks?

What should Blizzard be doing to prevent hackers?

What popular PC games are immune to the problems Blizzard has?

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

What exactly is Blizzard doing wrong?

What is wrong with offering authenticators at cost, that can avoid most hacks?

What should Blizzard be doing to prevent hackers?

What popular PC games are immune to the problems Blizzard has?

As for the first two questions, what they are doing wrong is offering authenticators and stopping there. The authenticators are not wrong, although I still think they should be including them in the cost of the game if that's how they want to manage things, but they are not themselves a solution; they are simply a bandaid that allows Blizzard to hide the actual problems. None of their "solutions" actually directly deal with the hackers, so the hackers have free reign to continue causing havoc. As for the last two questions, while no game is immune to it, most do a much better job handling them because they actually involve dealing with the hackers directly in their solutions. Until Blizzard takes on the hackers directly, which will never happen, battlenet will continue to be a hacker's paradise, because the company running it seems content to leave it's users to fend for themselves.

Originally posted by tawess

Originally posted by Kaerigan

Originally posted by Xiaoki

The Authenticator it to try and "fix stupid". 9 times out of 10 when someone gets hacked it is because they went to a bad website. But people never want to admit they clicked on a shady link in an e-mail or went to a bad website.

And then there are people like me. I've got separate passwords for my Battle.net account and the email it is tied to. My account got locked for "suspicious activity". I changed both passwords and even bought a new computer (not because of that incident, of course, it was just time to upgrade). Now my account is locked again. And NO, I have honestly not attempted logging on to any totallylegitbattlenetfreegold.com or something retarded like that. I haven't shared my passwords with ANYONE.

This is the only one of my hundreds of accounts on various websites that has been compromised.

It's not like I have any proof but sometimes I wonder what the fuck Blizzard is up to.

Could also be that blizzard system detected changes in your IP range and when that happen they lock the account as a safty measure. Have a friend who travel a lot and he have to go through that process once a day when he is no the road. He get the same message "locked due to suspicious acitvity"

Yeah, I wish. The first time my account got locked and then unlocked I logged on to WoW to see what's what and there I have 5 level 80 characters with names like sldfjkkldsjfklsdjf that I've never seen before. So I wonder what got messed up this time. Maybe my Diablo 3 characters (that I fortunately don't give a rat's ass about)? I'm to lazy to download D3 or WoW to find out though.

Originally posted by sunshadow21

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

What exactly is Blizzard doing wrong?

What is wrong with offering authenticators at cost, that can avoid most hacks?

What should Blizzard be doing to prevent hackers?

What popular PC games are immune to the problems Blizzard has?

As for the first two questions, what they are doing wrong is offering authenticators and stopping there. The authenticators are not wrong, although I still think they should be including them in the cost of the game if that's how they want to manage things, but they are not themselves a solution; they are simply a bandaid that allows Blizzard to hide the actual problems. None of their "solutions" actually directly deal with the hackers, so the hackers have free reign to continue causing havoc. As for the last two questions, while no game is immune to it, most do a much better job handling them because they actually involve dealing with the hackers directly in their solutions. Until Blizzard takes on the hackers directly, which will never happen, battlenet will continue to be a hacker's paradise, because the company running it seems content to leave it's users to fend for themselves.

You aren't really answering questions with any specifics.  I'm going to stop here though because it's getting way off track from what the lawsuit is about.

1) Blizzard doesn't profit on authenticators

2) They offer free solutions to those with smart phones

3) Packaging authenticators in every box is wasteful as many people own multiple Blizzard games and may already have an authenticator.  And many wouldn't want to pay for an authenticator, which would have to be added to the price of every physicial copy of the game.