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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So how would you all feel if Anet added endgame Raid Dungeons in next month's content update?

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115 posts found
  Homitu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2044

11/11/12 5:17:07 PM#61

To anyone who has ever said, in this thread or elsewhere, that it would downright terrible if GW2 adds raids, I can't help but think you're letting your perception of particular games that you may not like blind you a little.  Raiding in GW2 doesn't have to--and indeed wouldn't--be a singular end game grind.  If they suddenly added raiding to GW2 right this instance, it would become just another one of many gameplay modes that players can participate in at their leisure.  How could that possibly be a bad thing for anyone?  Unless it somehow infringes upon other aspects of the game you enjoy, it simply won't effect you.  

That said, I'd have 1 major issue with raiding in GW2's current form: as far as I can see, it would be utter chaos.  Thus far, my experience in GW2 is such that more people = more chaos = fewer tactics employed = one homogenous game of standing out of red circles, dodging, and hacking away.  The sweet spot for GW2 PvE combat, in my opinion, is with 2-4 other players.  

But I also felt similarly about games like WoW.  I raided 40 mans in vanilla was a part of server firsts in 25 mans in BC.  But the dungeons that take the cake for me in my 3 expansion WoW experience?  Kara, timed ZA runs, and heroic 10 man Ulduar--all 10 mans.  Execution had to be so much tighter, healing was so much more intense.  This may be an apples to oranges comparison, but if anything, i think it might indicate that every MMO may have its own "sweet spot" for optimal number of players in combat--a sweet spot that is, of course, subject to each individual's preference to some extent.

Whatever they add, I'd suggest that one thing they seriously need to change/add is challenging content that yields specific unique rewards.  Right now, aside from Arah explorables, there is absolutely nothing in the game that represents a signficant accomplishment worth showing off.  There's very little for players to take pride in.  Absent of a gear tredmill (which I am very happy to be without), the game needs to offer titles/skins/achievements (that are linkable and visible to others)/pets/cosmetic mounts/whatever that players can feel proud to have obtained.  This is what generates motivation.  Give us a goal.  

Right now, every goal is basically "earn X gold so I can buy item Y."

  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7311

11/11/12 5:39:00 PM#62
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Go play a bloody raid grinder like wow or rift then.

Why does every game need to get tainted with raids?

It's almost as stupid as the people asking for pve servers with darkfall.

What is it, 20% of players raid? I wonder what those other 8 million are doing in WoW, the "raid grinder"....

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  User Deleted
11/11/12 5:48:29 PM#63
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Go play a bloody raid grinder like wow or rift then.

Why does every game need to get tainted with raids?

It's almost as stupid as the people asking for pve servers with darkfall.

What is it, 20% of players raid? I wonder what those other 8 million are doing in WoW, the "raid grinder"....

Leveling and getting bored, then starting up an alt and getting bored...

Roleplaying?

Imbalanced Low Level PVP (Heirlooms are the enemy of balance at anything lower than 30)

Dorking about in Goldshire?

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

11/11/12 5:53:47 PM#64
Originally posted by Enigmatus
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Go play a bloody raid grinder like wow or rift then.

Why does every game need to get tainted with raids?

It's almost as stupid as the people asking for pve servers with darkfall.

What is it, 20% of players raid? I wonder what those other 8 million are doing in WoW, the "raid grinder"....

Leveling and getting bored, then starting up an alt and getting bored...

Roleplaying?

Imbalanced Low Level PVP (Heirlooms are the enemy of balance at anything lower than 30)

Dorking about in Goldshire?

oh snap, what if players actually could compare themselves with other players?  What if GW2 had interaction?

 

There is plenty of stuff to do in other games, largely because of interactivity.  Hell even fishing in WoW was made fun.

 

You downplay roleplaying, but that is part of interactivity.  GW2 sucks terribly when it comes to emotes.  They have the least I've seen in a so-called "AAA" MMORPG. shameful.  Do fans actually take pride in how GW2 is antisocial to everyone but themselves?  You may not like roleplaying, but many others do.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5739

11/11/12 5:57:06 PM#65
Originally posted by ChrisReitz
Originally posted by DMKano

That would make no sense - gw2 is targeted at casual players, raids have no place among the casual players, as it takes 100s of hours of dedicated gameplay with a large guild to progress through raid content.

large raiding guilds don't play gw2, casuals have no time to play raids.

it be like opening a surf shop in Antarctica - pointless 

 

If you say so. I guess alot of people are just "casual" mmorpg 'ers with most of there servers full. The game even had to quit saleing after its first week. You might as well pack up and go to antracitca cause you are in your own head if you actually beleive that...

Casual gamers male up the largest % of MMORPG gamers - this is self evident due to how well gams that support casual players sell - case in point GW2 sales as you noted.

My point was that adding raids to GW2 would be a waste of dev resources - there aren't large raiding guilds that play GW2 so why bother?

  User Deleted
11/11/12 5:58:42 PM#66
Originally posted by Fion

Guild Wars 1 didn't have raids.

GW1 had elite missions for 12 players, which is more than some games raid sizes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elite_mission

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5739

11/11/12 5:59:38 PM#67
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Go play a bloody raid grinder like wow or rift then.

Why does every game need to get tainted with raids?

It's almost as stupid as the people asking for pve servers with darkfall.

What is it, 20% of players raid? I wonder what those other 8 million are doing in WoW, the "raid grinder"....

There was a recent interview with Blizzard devs that said that less than 3% of playerbase even gets to see any current raid content - less than 1% gets to complete a single raid boss.

So yeah 99% of WoW players do not raid on a regular basis - probably up to 20% try older raid content still the vast majority of WoW playerbase doesn't raid period.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2798

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

11/11/12 6:00:10 PM#68

As long as if they were non instanced I would be all for it.

 

But if it was instanced, hated before hate it even more now.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Malevil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/06/10
Posts: 475

11/11/12 6:05:04 PM#69
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Fion

Guild Wars 1 didn't have raids.

GW1 had elite missions for 12 players, which is more than some games raid sizes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elite_mission

Which played a lot less players compared to 8mans ... Simply for most ppl it wasnt worth to run it just for cosmetic rewards,  waste of resources ... ANet decided to not repeat same mistake in gw2.

  SirFubar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/21/11
Posts: 404

11/11/12 6:05:32 PM#70
Even if they added some raids to gw2 (won't ever happen IMO since they would've already done it at launch) most people will cry because there will be no point in doing them because the gear will be the same as the 5-man dungeons. Raids without the gear progression that come with it is pretty pointless. Also, if a 5 man dungeons can be as challenging and fun than a raid, why bother raiding?
  lqw6843128

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/12
Posts: 35

11/11/12 6:12:48 PM#71
It doesn't matter if they add raid or not, that sort of end game won't attract me in any game.
  Thupli

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 423

11/11/12 6:14:41 PM#72

No problem with raiding, but honestly, for gw2 I just don't see it even being possible, at least raiding in the wow sense, without a tank/trinity.

 

Personally, I'm way looking forward to the progressive dungeon.  I hope we see more of that.  

 

What I'd really like to see is more puzzles in dungeons.  Moving platforms.  Switches.  Time limits to kill mobs or a door won't open.  Bombs to access secret passages.  Dark rooms where environmental torches provide 10m of vision.

that would make my day.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1066

11/11/12 6:18:56 PM#73
 
  slicknslim88

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 400

11/11/12 6:26:36 PM#74

If they keep the same loot system as they do now, a Diablo type randomized loot system where you get tokens for exotic gear, than I wouldn't mind seeing dungeons for 10+ people.  However I believe that it would be best if they made it an option, like a difficulty option.  Make those dungeons be able to be run with 5 people, but make a Hard version for 10 people, or something like that.  That would probably draw hate though for making it too much like "World of Warcraft" though.  Which I find pretty silly because there has been hard mode video games since the beginning of video games pretty much.  But I can just see people work super hard to link it to WoW using the best most ignorant viewpoints in their arsenal.

  Xiaoki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2467

11/11/12 6:34:27 PM#75


Originally posted by DMKano

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by ShakyMo Go play a bloody raid grinder like wow or rift then. Why does every game need to get tainted with raids? It's almost as stupid as the people asking for pve servers with darkfall.
What is it, 20% of players raid? I wonder what those other 8 million are doing in WoW, the "raid grinder"....
There was a recent interview with Blizzard devs that said that less than 3% of playerbase even gets to see any current raid content - less than 1% gets to complete a single raid boss.

So yeah 99% of WoW players do not raid on a regular basis - probably up to 20% try older raid content still the vast majority of WoW playerbase doesn't raid period.



Please link the interview.


Blizzard never said that.

  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4779

11/11/12 6:46:01 PM#76
Originally posted by SirFubar
Even if they added some raids to gw2 (won't ever happen IMO since they would've already done it at launch) most people will cry because there will be no point in doing them because the gear will be the same as the 5-man dungeons. Raids without the gear progression that come with it is pretty pointless. Also, if a 5 man dungeons can be as challenging and fun than a raid, why bother raiding?

Basically this ^.

Even with the 5 man dungeons GW2 already has, people are choosing to avoid the more challenging content in favor of the more farmable, easier content. It's just human nature. The only reason raids were ever as popular as they were, is because people were forced to do them. There was a huge barrier to entry. It was what all the cool elitists were doing.

I wouldn't be against larger group content in GW2 (and to a certain extent GW2 already has that), but I just don't see the game ever having raid content like what these people seem to be asking for. Suddenly adding a tiered gear grind would completely go 180 towards the game's core design principles. The people playing GW2 are doing so to get away from WoW, not to play more of the same.

While Raid content can be exciting, and a lot of fun, it has pretty blatant problems that many of us have been seeing for years.

One of the reasons I really enjoyed GW1, (and what GW2 seems to be trying to continue) is the focus on horizontal progression. Let people lvl up and evolve to a point, but make the endgame more about customization than about who has time to grind for the best loot.

From the 15th update, I'm willing to bet it's going to be more DEs, dungeon(s), gear skins, and possibly another dragon fight.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1066

11/11/12 6:53:48 PM#77
Originally posted by SirFubar
Even if they added some raids to gw2 (won't ever happen IMO since they would've already done it at launch) most people will cry because there will be no point in doing them because the gear will be the same as the 5-man dungeons. Raids without the gear progression that come with it is pretty pointless. Also, if a 5 man dungeons can be as challenging and fun than a raid, why bother raiding?

As long as the goal is power gear trophies, this mentality will continue.  I am still asking -- where in the real world do achivements for difficult tasks -- tests in school, scaling Mt Everest, winning the world series -- reward you with gear that make that makes you better at that task from that point on?  You get an A+, get a story in the newspaper, and receive a ring.  Sure, in a fantasy setting there can be more magic and items, but how about focusing on making them unique or different instead of more powerful?  Focus on having them do something special that can perhaps complement other abilities or items for an effect.  Pure power progression is boring.

And by the way, people DO take on challenge for challenge sake.  A guy climbing Mr. Everest asks himself if he can do it, not whether there's a +300 STR piece of gear waiting at the top, to make it worth his while.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

11/11/12 7:08:42 PM#78
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by DMKano

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by ShakyMo Go play a bloody raid grinder like wow or rift then. Why does every game need to get tainted with raids? It's almost as stupid as the people asking for pve servers with darkfall.
What is it, 20% of players raid? I wonder what those other 8 million are doing in WoW, the "raid grinder"....
There was a recent interview with Blizzard devs that said that less than 3% of playerbase even gets to see any current raid content - less than 1% gets to complete a single raid boss.

 

So yeah 99% of WoW players do not raid on a regular basis - probably up to 20% try older raid content still the vast majority of WoW playerbase doesn't raid period.



Please link the interview.

 


Blizzard never said that.

It's made up statistics, the interview saying what the OP said doesn't exist.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Mahavishnu

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/12
Posts: 339

11/11/12 7:14:24 PM#79
Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Betrayed.

But since it won't happen, there's nothing to worry about.

This!

Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3479

11/11/12 7:14:54 PM#80

There are a lot of other things I'd like to see that relate to "endgame" before instanced raiding. I'd love to see more endgame than just Orr, but I would absolutely hate it if it were only instanced.

The open world dragons are "raid content". A lot of the dynamic events in Orr are "raid content" - they just aren't terrible difficult and easily zerged right now. I would like for endgame content to continue that open-world trend though, although start to scale the challenge up.

Why instance it? Really. What purpose does it serve in a game like GW2 with open-world autogrouping? I would even go so far as to say that you could open up the 5-man instances to open world, except that as they are designed now it wouldn't really be feasible. But I would love to see more open-world type dungeons (something like the Goonies area in TA, but with some mobs in there).

I'd also love to see player housing, and guild housing, and Wv3 expanded greatly, and SPvP tournaments fleshed out more, and more unique world events (Mad King was very well done, I look forward to the next one in a week).

There are many more ways to do endgame than just chasing raid items inside an instanced zone. I'm sick of instanced raid zones.

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