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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why sandboxes tend to be small budget indie games

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80 posts found
  Jakdstripper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 2108

11/10/12 8:49:23 AM#21
Originally posted by MMOExposed

The reality of the issue goes over many people's head.

 

Its not about how Themepark or Sandbox a MMO is. It's all about how interesting the feature list is to the MASSES.

The term Sandbox isn't what turns people off about a Sandbox MMO.

what turns people off is the way Developers tend to always have the same unpopular features in Sandbox.

*FFA PvP just is not popular no matter how much you try. So stop trying this.

*Full Loot just is not popular. So stop doing it already.

*Aim based controls, just isn't popular. Stop doing it!

*Playing as a vehicle, just isn't popular. Don't do this.

*lack of PvE developer made content, just isn't fun in the long run. Stop doing that than.

 

 

Man this list goes on. But usually most of these can be found in any so called Sandbox MMO. But people wonder why that genre isn't popular right now. Change many of these listed here in your sandbox and you can expect much growth.

but of course, most sandbox MMO developers will never do that and stay in their little box of mind.

 i agree with your FFA full loot pvp. it is an aquired taste, that however is gaining popularity with games like Dayz.

 however, aim based combat IS popular, LoL is aim based (or at least party aim based), Cod is aim based, Skyrim is aimed based, Dayz is aim based, all the newer popular games are aim based.....come to think of it the ONLY game that is still very popular dispite tab targeting is WoW. a pure tab targeting system is an quickly becomeing an old system and the future is aim based combat.

in the end, because a sandbox require a lot more complex mechanics that interact with achother in countless different ways, they are just harder to make, and require a lot more complex coding. When an investor looks at making a game they will not look favourably at the harder concept (the sandbox), which by the way has proven a failure more times the not. they will look at the safest way to make a game that has the highest chance of selling: the themepark.

 

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13175

 
OP  11/10/12 9:38:52 AM#22
Originally posted by Starpower

It's all about financial backing. Themeparks sell, while sandbox MMOs are still in the experimental stage with no real quantifiable numbers you can show at an investors meeting. That's the bottom line. At the end of the day you still have to try and convince financial backers to pour some money into your idea.

 

I mean sure you could bring up EvE and say hey! Here is a couple of hundred thousands of players playing a sandbox MMO but are they playing EvE because it's a pure sandbox or because it's a well made space MMO with no real competition in that corner market?. Could be a bit of both but it makes for a bad example because of that.

But that doesn't explain why small budget sandboxes do get made.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13175

 
OP  11/10/12 9:39:24 AM#23
Originally posted by MMOExposed

The reality of the issue goes over many people's head.

 

Its not about how Themepark or Sandbox a MMO is. It's all about how interesting the feature list is to the MASSES.

The term Sandbox isn't what turns people off about a Sandbox MMO.

what turns people off is the way Developers tend to always have the same unpopular features in Sandbox.

*FFA PvP just is not popular no matter how much you try. So stop trying this.

*Full Loot just is not popular. So stop doing it already.

*Aim based controls, just isn't popular. Stop doing it!

*Playing as a vehicle, just isn't popular. Don't do this.

*lack of PvE developer made content, just isn't fun in the long run. Stop doing that than.

 

 

Man this list goes on. But usually most of these can be found in any so called Sandbox MMO. But people wonder why that genre isn't popular right now. Change many of these listed here in your sandbox and you can expect much growth.

but of course, most sandbox MMO developers will never do that and stay in their little box of mind.

What does that have to do with a budget?  Or is this just generic sandbox post #89845343 trying to derail the thread?

  kilun

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 678

11/10/12 9:56:02 AM#24
Originally posted by GreenishBlue

Most investors won't throw money, that's all. If I invest, I want a return. It's all about money, unless you are donating.

All these devs, including the ones from Mortal Online, Darkfall, Embers of Caerus, etc, think they will hit the jackpot like EVE did. But EVE is not a fantasy/medieval MMO. So what we have is fail after fail. I don't understand why these indie companies can't design a sandbox MMO without the full loot PvP or provide a server for it. Or how about a specific area in the game world where the full loot PvP takes place? If they don't learn from Dark Fail, and Mortal Fail, and soon to be Embers Fail, don't know what else.

Because they can't.  They are somehow under the notion that since UO at release was pretty hardcore, that all sandbox games must have those Full Loot all the time PVP enabled and you must claw your way through the world.  I hasn't work since on a large basis and won't ever.

Take a look at a few games that were good such as Shadowbane.  If it wasn't a bug ridden fest, it would still be operational.  Copy it.

SWG-pre CU/NGE.  Over 100k subs.  Why has no one copied it?  Simple.

The truth is no one wants to make a sandbox that isn't about killing each other 100% of the time.  These developers seem to be out of touch with reality and make what they want to make and wonder why no one else shares their interested in wasting their life away dying just to go farm to get goods again that can be taken away in a matter of seconds by some guy hacking that you can't even touch with 5 other guys.

 

@Quiz, It would be better if you listed actual budgets for MMO's through a timeline of both Themepark and Sandbox games.  when I think of small budget indie games I think of things like FATE, Minecraft, etc.

  kilun

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 678

11/10/12 10:01:35 AM#25
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Starpower

It's all about financial backing. Themeparks sell, while sandbox MMOs are still in the experimental stage with no real quantifiable numbers you can show at an investors meeting. That's the bottom line. At the end of the day you still have to try and convince financial backers to pour some money into your idea.

 

I mean sure you could bring up EvE and say hey! Here is a couple of hundred thousands of players playing a sandbox MMO but are they playing EvE because it's a pure sandbox or because it's a well made space MMO with no real competition in that corner market?. Could be a bit of both but it makes for a bad example because of that.

But that doesn't explain why small budget sandboxes do get made.

Take a look at Perpetuum.  That alone explains why small budget sandboxes get made, at least to their team.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

11/10/12 10:04:01 AM#26
Majority of sandboxes aren't pvp orientated! Anyone that thinks sandbox = full loot open world pvp is full of it. Sandbox isn't all about pvp, matter of fact pvp is more so from themeparks because that's all themeparks have for end game content. And swg is more of a sandbox/mmo than 90% of the crap released this past 5+ years.
  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

11/10/12 10:09:36 AM#27
Originally posted by MMOExposed

The reality of the issue goes over many people's head.

 

Its not about how Themepark or Sandbox a MMO is. It's all about how interesting the feature list is to the MASSES.

The term Sandbox isn't what turns people off about a Sandbox MMO.

what turns people off is the way Developers tend to always have the same unpopular features in Sandbox.

*FFA PvP just is not popular no matter how much you try. So stop trying this.

*Full Loot just is not popular. So stop doing it already.

*Aim based controls, just isn't popular. Stop doing it!

*Playing as a vehicle, just isn't popular. Don't do this.

*lack of PvE developer made content, just isn't fun in the long run. Stop doing that than.

 

 

Man this list goes on. But usually most of these can be found in any so called Sandbox MMO. But people wonder why that genre isn't popular right now. Change many of these listed here in your sandbox and you can expect much growth.

but of course, most sandbox MMO developers will never do that and stay in their little box of mind.

I don't really agree with this because let's face it since the WoW boom there hasn't been any sandbox games with any of these features worth a damn so there are literally millions of new age gamers that have never experienced sandbox gameplay in any real form. All the above features can be great when done right but horrible when done wrong which they almost always are. So really the popular opinion is irrelevant here because its not based on ones own experience but rather hearsay and then most of that hearsay comes from tired old gamers who don't possess the skill needed to be successful in a more competitive environment. Mind you I'm 32 and starting to notice my reaction times slowing as I start the downward slope from my peak of prowess, but I strongly support these features implemented in the right fashion because there is nothing like the adrenaline rush you get from the situations these types of games give you. Both the highs of getting the kill and loot from someone reknowned or the lows of giving it all back with one bad decision. It's a lot like gambling.

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13175

 
OP  11/10/12 10:12:58 AM#28
Originally posted by Apraxis
Originally posted by Quizzical

Sandbox games are different.  To make a good sandbox game, you have to have a number of complicated game mechanics that work together in complex ways.  And they need to work together very, very well.  You need for interesting gameplay decisions to arise in very complicated ways--and for players to not have a single way to short-circuit the intended complexity.

That is the second type of hard discussed above.  Most game programmers can't do it.  They could try, but the game would probably be a train wreck.

However, a sandbox game isn't the first type of hard.  You don't need hundreds of custom-done quests, and hundreds of custom-done mobs, and so forth to make a good sandbox game.  The game will succeed or fail on the basis of whether your sandbox mechanics make for interesting gameplay.

Well.. that is just to some degree correct. Because a sandbox mmorpg is basicly both types of hard, at least a full fledged out sandbox mmorpg, or maybe better called virtual world.

But you have to differ here. If you mean just a empty world with sandbox mechanics you would be right. But a real virtual world and as i would call a full fledged out sandbox mmorpg you need the world, too.

With the world i mean a world simulation run by npc factions all alone without the player, but fully changeable by the player. And with it you get your first type of hard again. Maybe not in that amount of a themepark, because you dont need a lot of scripted content. You dont have to do every single Quest/Encounter script by your own. But you need a background simulation/AI(think of dwarfen fortress) that let everything run. And you need to create the world, with cities, landscapes, and some kind of npc faction and npc history/story. (Look at UO or SWG)

EvE was rather empty, but not completely. And it is by far easier to do something in a space sim than in a fantasy based games. Comparsion is here between Elite and Dwarfen Fortress as examples. And EvE was the only successful indy sandbox mmorpg out of 15? or more indy attempts for a sandbox mmorpg.

If you want to have a thousand quests, you have to do a bunch of things custom a thousand times.

But do you really do a bunch of things custom a thousand times for AI?  If you do, then you're doing it wrong.  Maybe you have several different AIs.  Maybe each has a fair bit of variety from plugging in different parameters.  It's intrinsically difficult to do that well, so it's the second type of hard.  But doing something several times rather than a thousand times is not the time-consuming first type of hard--which is my point.

  Rayshe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

11/10/12 10:31:19 AM#29

Sorry to say that this generation of gamers want everything to be perfect right out of the gate. I'm sorry but they are being greedy and childish. For example, TSW was released with them basically saying. Yes the game is not done yet however this game will continue to grow, new animations will be added, PVP will be redone, Missions will be added monthly, and the story will be on ongoing experiance.

 

What did the gamers complain about.

 

Lack of content

Bad PVP

Short story

Bad animations.

 

This just proves to me that the current generation wants games the size of WoW and Eve upon release. They want every little feature that has been invented, put in at the start of the game. IF you guys want a good Themepark OR Sandbox game you need to find a title and stick with it as they grow the game. I've seen games drop subs and go F2P just to survive. Now when a game is fighting to survive to you honestly think that Growing the game is first on their minds, No suddenly Making money to make sure the game stays playable is.

 

There is no such thing as perfection out of the gate. suck it up, Play the game in its infant stages so it has the oppotunity to become one of the "Adult" size games.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2828

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

11/10/12 10:43:00 AM#30
Originally posted by Deathenger
If a company could do exactly what EvE has done except in a traditional fantasy setting , everything else would pretty much be blown out of the water.

Im talking.about the entire game. Combat depth, crafting, market, social, the whole shabang.

 

Eve works since it has the advantage of space making it vastly easier to really 'work' for players as it involves huge areas of black space to explore with customization being more so 'ship based' which in a way is just 'editing your avatar' of sorts. Yes, you can call it a sandbox but it really has very little sandbox elements around people actually would want. Even with its minimal sandbox elements in place, it still shows that issue with a sandbox mentality with the markets. 

Don't get me wrong, not trying to bash eve, it works for what it is due to the setting it is in involving solely focused on the ships and space which really don't provide that level of 'creationism' that a fantasy world might provide. Taking eve and making it work in fantasy would involve adding a LOT more sandbox elements and content to the game. Making players stay (keeping the same world never reset) would require even more work.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13175

 
OP  11/10/12 11:09:18 AM#31
Originally posted by BeefMach1ne

Not so sure about the "most game programmers just can't do it" mentality.  EVE isn't exactly the most complex game in the world....  Most of the complexity comes from the well thought out mechanics and systems they put in place but after that it's mostly just graphical spaceship spreedsheets.

But well thought-out complex mechanics and systems are hard.  They're the second type of hard from my original post.

What actually got me thinking about this was not sandboxes but tessellation.  Just over three years ago, DirectX 11 launched and brought hardware tessellation capabilities to games.  At the time, I thought that tessellation was going to be a huge deal.  Rather than having fixed models of characters, you can have low polygon base models that look fine from far away, and use tessellation to break them up into high polygon models up close that still look smooth.  And you can have a huge number of interpolated models, without having an obvious jump when the game switches from one model to another, as games that try to have two or three models for something commonly do.

More than three years later, I'm not aware of a single commercial game that has done that.  There are some games that use tessellation, of course.  But they tend to start with fairly high polygon models, and then use tessellation to break it up even more.  That's missing the point.

Fast forward to 2012.  I decided to learn how to do computer graphics, to see if I could make a simple game myself.  I still thought tessellation sounded cool in the abstract, and wanted to see if I could do it.  I found a number of explanations online of how to do lighting, texturing, and so forth.  But if tessellation was mentioned at all, it was mostly, "You don't want to do that, because it's really hard."

But I did want to do tessellation, so I pressed ahead.  The first graphical feature I learned how to make was to draw a triangle.  It was a single white triangle on a black background, and basically the OpenGL equivalent of a "Hello World" program.  The second thing I learned how to do was tessellation.

And it wasn't that hard.  Or at least, I thought it wasn't.  Sometime later, in another thread on this forum, Castillle said something to the effect of, "We can't do tessellation because we don't have any good algorithms for it."  I didn't say this at the time, but my reaction was basically, "Umm, duh.  Isn't it obvious?"  I was incredulous at his comment, even though it seemed common when tessellation is discussed online.  It was as if, knowing how to add two numbers, someone can't figure out how to add three numbers.

It was only later that I realized, to most computer programmers, it most certainly isn't obvious.  I've studied manifolds with boundary, simplicial homology, stellar subdivisions, diffeomorphisms, and a number of other relevant concepts.  For someone with my background in mathematics, it's obvious how to do tessellation.  But how many people will see any of those concepts before they finish an undergraduate degree?  Maybe some relatively advanced math majors, but not many.  Most game programmers haven't seen the concepts, don't even know what is out there, and wouldn't even know where they should look.

In one sense, games seem kind of magical.  You press a key and things move on the screen.  It's a lot of work to make that happen.  Coming from a background of trying to program my calculator, which didn't have 3D graphics built in, it seems impossible to make that work.

But that got me thinking, if game programmers don't know the mathematics that they need to know in order to use tessellation--which they really should use, because it's awesome--then maybe there are other things that they should do but can't because they don't know how.  As I got further into programming my game, I realized that I was using a ton of mathematics that most computer programmers have never seen.  Some of it was graduate level stuff, and some merely upper level undergraduate stuff.

Is advanced mathematics really what's missing from sandboxes?  Not necessarily.  But some of the stuff I've tried to do and compared to commercial games on the market today led me to look at what other games did and think, they did it that way because it's all that they know or can figure out how to do.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13175

 
OP  11/10/12 11:17:18 AM#32
Originally posted by kilun

The truth is no one wants to make a sandbox that isn't about killing each other 100% of the time.

How then do you explain A Tale in the Desert?

  Zzad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/14/11
Posts: 1272

11/10/12 11:19:47 AM#33

Sandbox is overrated in these forums.... but the truth is that not many people like them and/or play them.

Most players are not interested and would avoid any game with permadeath, full loot, forced open PvP and other characteristics that avid sandbox fanboys always demand on any MMO beeing released.

That is the main reason no big company makes a triple A one.

Not enough market,simple as that.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1438

11/10/12 11:28:25 AM#34
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Apraxis
...

If you want to have a thousand quests, you have to do a bunch of things custom a thousand times.

But do you really do a bunch of things custom a thousand times for AI?  If you do, then you're doing it wrong.  Maybe you have several different AIs.  Maybe each has a fair bit of variety from plugging in different parameters.  It's intrinsically difficult to do that well, so it's the second type of hard.  But doing something several times rather than a thousand times is not the time-consuming first type of hard--which is my point.

Yeap.. Thats true about the AI/Simulation Part. But not true for the world. Ok, you could do a lot with procedural world generation, on the other side, it is extremely difficult, and to write a good procedural 3D world generator is extremely time consuming. And you would need a lot of work(first type hard) to do to draw/design all assets like different types of trees(size and type), and all other parts the world generator would use. And that is really to do things custom a thousands and more times.

But because a good procedural world generation is a project on its own, a lot of sandboxes handcraft their world, and that is also a lot of first type hard work, and not just the world, the inhabitants, the cities, the landscape in general and almost everything, what is in your world, and with what you can toy around. With other words, all the animation, graphic, art, sound everything not programmed is the first type of  work.. and there is a lot of it. Ok, if you cut a lot of it out, you get what i said before a empty world.

And dont underestimate the amount of work all those 2nd type hard things will cost. A good AI system(and you need a few AI layers working with and against each other for a good simulation) is a lot of work. To make all Items/Objects changeable, and fitting in the world requires a lot of work, too. (and even more in a 3D world) Sandbox Tools require a lot of thought and work to be done.

The point is i guess, that the initial costs(in other  word work time) for a AAA sandbox is even higher than a AAA themepark, with the difference, that it is much easier to generate long term appeal, and to expand the world. At least if you asume of the same level of detail and polish of your product.(and without a single quest) Almost all indy projects were rather empty and barren worlds, which is one reason why the failed in the first place.

And EvE is somewhat a exception, and one reason is, because it is in Space.. a Galaxy full of stars and planets is rather easy to generate.. especially if those planets are either not visitable or empty and procedural generated. With other words CCP was cabable because to craft their world was rather easy in comparsion to create, and even more easier to expand.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11915

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/10/12 11:32:49 AM#35
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by kilun

The truth is no one wants to make a sandbox that isn't about killing each other 100% of the time.

How then do you explain A Tale in the Desert?

or Free Realms, There, Muxlim, Red Light Center, Kaneva, Second Life, or Sociolotron

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13175

 
OP  11/10/12 11:55:46 AM#36
Originally posted by Apraxis

But because a good procedural world generation is a project on its own, a lot of sandboxes handcraft their world, and that is also a lot of first type hard work, and not just the world, the inhabitants, the cities, the landscape in general and almost everything, what is in your world, and with what you can toy around. With other words, all the animation, graphic, art, sound everything not programmed is the first type of  work.. and there is a lot of it. Ok, if you cut a lot of it out, you get what i said before a empty world.

A sandbox isn't just a theme park without quests.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5917

11/10/12 12:15:47 PM#37
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Apraxis

But because a good procedural world generation is a project on its own, a lot of sandboxes handcraft their world, and that is also a lot of first type hard work, and not just the world, the inhabitants, the cities, the landscape in general and almost everything, what is in your world, and with what you can toy around. With other words, all the animation, graphic, art, sound everything not programmed is the first type of  work.. and there is a lot of it. Ok, if you cut a lot of it out, you get what i said before a empty world.

A sandbox isn't just a theme park without quests.

Than what is Darkfall?

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3734

11/10/12 12:22:11 PM#38

I'm not sure I agree with the conventional MMO fan site definitions of sandbox vs. themepark. In my mind those definitions are usually biased by our own experiences in MMOs of the past--what we enjoyed and what we didn't.

 

MMOs attempt to create an interesting virtual world where you can, more or less, behave in a fashion that is consistent with that world. A sandbox game would allow us more freedom to do things in unique ways that are not (it appears) predetermined by the developers--sort of like in real life-- and Themeparks limit those choices based on the developer's assumptions about what interesting things we want to do and we're 100% aware of those limits. Sandboxes are built to encompass the unexpected and the extremes, themeparks are not. But in reality, it's all an illusion: sandboxes only seem to not have predetermined things when in fact tthey have to predetermine the outcomes for many more possibilities.

 

According to my own definition, a true sandbox is just a theoretical goal--MMO utopia. The technology doesn't exist except in Scifi books or shows. The best an MMO can currently do is lean one way or the other.

 

I don't think complexity of mechanics nor quantity of content has anything to do with the distinction. Themeparks and Sandboxes can both be complex or simple and they can both have a lot of content or a small quantity.

 

"Openness" for lack of a better word is the real distinction. Another way of describing a sandbox game is "if I can think of it, I should be able to do it." In a real sandbox fantasy simulator, I should be able to "invent" my own unique spells that do something totally different than the one you may invent or create a sword that has a secondary effect like freezing you for 30 minutes. I should be able to figure out a way to befriend dragons and ride on their backs, build a castle, collect taxes from people I protect... or make horeshoes for the village and accept protection from the local lord.

 

Pie in the sky unbalancing crap? Yup, of course. So by necessity the developers of that world add limits to just how much damage a spell can do, how far you can teleport, limit freezing secondary effects of swords to 6 seconds or even remove dragons altogether. All of those choices create "rails" that limit us and contain the world. Do too much of that and you get the Themepark label even if you can do other things that we commonly associate with sandboxes.

 

PK with harsh consequences? Themeparks have had those (although it's rare now.) Build your own house? Check...see LOTRO and others. World boundaries and zoning? Check...sandboxes have those too. Quick travel? They both have those capabilities in some fashion. Trading mechanics including mail and AHs? Yup again...both. Quests? Yup...both, although mass-produced themeparks use this as their core mechanic and sandboxes tend not to.

 

Try as I might, I can't think of a single feature that is 100% unique to games labeled tehemepark or sandbox. All I see is a continuum from a lot of freedom to very little freedom with every MMO somewhere in the middle but leaning in one direction.

 

And I also see a significant difference in popularity that leans heavily toward the mass-produced MMO on rails with limited choices. The people with the $$ seem to think that's what sells and they haven't been proven wrong yet. This, mpre than anything else is what forces the more sandboxy games to be developed by indies: no one with the big bucks wants to fund their project. The decision about what type of game to make doesn't happen after the budget has been determined, it happens before that and then you try to get the funding. This is what has pushed the more sandboxy MMOs into niche spaces.

 

And sorry, I see no evidence anywhere that a sandbox design would benefit less from a cash infusion than a themepark. The ideal genre-changing sandboxy MMO that we're all waiting for would need to have all the polish and even more diversity than a 2012 themepark... that game needs actually more content than the themepark not less, since I'll be able to be a hybrid lion tamer accountant in it.

 

Anyway...those are my thoughts before my second cup of coffee. Cheers and good OP to get this discussion going.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11915

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/10/12 12:31:18 PM#39
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Apraxis

But because a good procedural world generation is a project on its own, a lot of sandboxes handcraft their world, and that is also a lot of first type hard work, and not just the world, the inhabitants, the cities, the landscape in general and almost everything, what is in your world, and with what you can toy around. With other words, all the animation, graphic, art, sound everything not programmed is the first type of  work.. and there is a lot of it. Ok, if you cut a lot of it out, you get what i said before a empty world.

A sandbox isn't just a theme park without quests.

Than what is Darkfall?

An incomplete attempt at creating a game.

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 842

11/10/12 12:34:32 PM#40
Originally posted by Jakdstripper
Originally posted by MMOExposed

The reality of the issue goes over many people's head.

 

Its not about how Themepark or Sandbox a MMO is. It's all about how interesting the feature list is to the MASSES.

The term Sandbox isn't what turns people off about a Sandbox MMO.

what turns people off is the way Developers tend to always have the same unpopular features in Sandbox.

*FFA PvP just is not popular no matter how much you try. So stop trying this.

*Full Loot just is not popular. So stop doing it already.

*Aim based controls, just isn't popular. Stop doing it!

*Playing as a vehicle, just isn't popular. Don't do this.

*lack of PvE developer made content, just isn't fun in the long run. Stop doing that than.

 

 

Man this list goes on. But usually most of these can be found in any so called Sandbox MMO. But people wonder why that genre isn't popular right now. Change many of these listed here in your sandbox and you can expect much growth.

but of course, most sandbox MMO developers will never do that and stay in their little box of mind.

 i agree with your FFA full loot pvp. it is an aquired taste, that however is gaining popularity with games like Dayz.

 however, aim based combat IS popular, LoL is aim based (or at least party aim based), Cod is aim based, Skyrim is aimed based, Dayz is aim based, all the newer popular games are aim based.....come to think of it the ONLY game that is still very popular dispite tab targeting is WoW. a pure tab targeting system is an quickly becomeing an old system and the future is aim based combat.

in the end, because a sandbox require a lot more complex mechanics that interact with achother in countless different ways, they are just harder to make, and require a lot more complex coding. When an investor looks at making a game they will not look favourably at the harder concept (the sandbox), which by the way has proven a failure more times the not. they will look at the safest way to make a game that has the highest chance of selling: the themepark.

 

god i hope not. Not a fan of this style of combat.

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