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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » Reasons for minimal advertising/info

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38 posts found
  Greymoor

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/30/10
Posts: 812

 
OP  11/08/12 7:33:34 AM#1

The biggest factor is probably server capacity.

- The DF severs can do 10,000 players concurrently, two servers which means 20,000 max at any one time

- This leads to a maximum population of probably 100-200k. With large queues around launch.

- EVERYONE who brought Darkfall 1.0, will not need to purchase 2.0.

- A lot of the old playerbase will atleast be giving 2.0 a try, they sold over 150,000 copies of the game.

 

Maths and logic clearly tells us they don't have a lot of room for advertising or releasing information because it will draw too much attention. The servers will already be full even with the current following and interest.

 

 

  wireded21

Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/03
Posts: 115

11/08/12 7:42:59 AM#2
Originally posted by Greymoor

The biggest factor is probably server capacity.

- The DF severs can do 10,000 players concurrently, two servers which means 20,000 max at any one time

- This leads to a maximum population of probably 100-200k. With large queues around launch.

- EVERYONE who brought Darkfall 1.0, will not need to purchase 2.0.

- A lot of the old playerbase will atleast be giving 2.0 a try, they sold over 150,000 copies of the game.

 

Maths and logic clearly tells us they don't have a lot of room for advertising or releasing information because it will draw too much attention. The servers will already be full even with the current following and interest.

 

 

So they've redone the UI, engine improvements, animations etc. to get all previous subscribers to at least purchase 1 month of game time to try it...

I still find the lack of promotion odd.

Anyway, server capacitiy is never a problem. If they sell 10 million copies in the first month they literally pour money into EU#1, #2, #3 etc. etc. etc.

Better that then have a game with no players...

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7007

11/08/12 7:45:14 AM#3

You know, I'm starting to think this is the way to do things, in order to aviod overhyped expectations. 

 

As far as the servers, they may need a couple more :)

  Ice-Queen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

11/08/12 7:46:33 AM#4
I would of thought with the revamp there would be at least some sort of advertising and at the very least more videos with more detailed information in them by now.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  tom_gore

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

11/08/12 7:56:06 AM#5

If they open more than 1 server per continent they are more stupid than I thought, and that's saying a lot.

Darkfall servers by their nature can never, ever be merged. Ever. Opening several servers because of the initial rush will just result in even worse crash after the playerbase is again leaving.

 

  Greymoor

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/30/10
Posts: 812

 
OP  11/08/12 8:45:07 AM#6
Originally posted by tom_gore

If they open more than 1 server per continent they are more stupid than I thought, and that's saying a lot.

Darkfall servers by their nature can never, ever be merged. Ever. Opening several servers because of the initial rush will just result in even worse crash after the playerbase is again leaving.

 

This. It's not like themepark MMOs where you merge with no problems once population drops again.

AV will simply have to upgrade their servers if the demand is too great and then they have to consider if it will be worth the cost long run.

AV has their market already interested in the game, they know the servers will be full + queue time. Marketing is just a bad idea until post-launch where they have a clearer view of where they are at.

  Jakdstripper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 2108

11/08/12 9:10:59 AM#7

well i think that, for one, it's Av....they really dont give much info EVER.

second, it's the same game. It's one thing to hype a game when it's brand new and nobody has ever played it but it's quite one other when you are besically re-launching a 3 year old game, by the same company, with a few tweeks.what are you going to say? ...."hey come check out the same, but slightly different, game!".....

they just don't want to spend the money to advertise. They have a fan base of sort, and they know most of those will at least try it. As for new players.....if the game formula is spot on this time word of mouth will bring them. If not then no big money was lost hyping UW.

it's a sensible move, especially since a game like DF will never be mainstream because of the full loot pvp. the best they can hope for is to recapture most of the their old subscribers and maybe add a few more. there is no point in spending big bucks in marketing a game that will always be niche, especially an older one,that is re-launched, that not much different from the original.

  Biskop

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 731

11/08/12 9:45:37 AM#8

Interesting to see people trying to defend this weird behaviour. I can't see any of these reasons holding up though, and here's why:

"They don't have server room for more than *insert random number here* players"

Server room can be purchased. Why would they want to purposely keep the playerbase low purely for technical reasons? It makes no sense at all. If 1000000000000000 people suddenly decides to play DFUW because of some gameplay videos, just use the fresh revenue to open new servers. While server merges may be difficult in this type of game, there's always a solution if the population suddenly drops. Better to spark an initial interest than to release this supposedly new game like one releases a silent fart in a dark room.

Besides, providing basic game info 2 weeks before release does not guarantee an insane amount of new players, but it's a nice gesture to the people actually waiting for the game. 

"They already have the market they're aiming for"

Not true. First of all, markets change. There is not one fixed "FFA full loot" niche market of X amount of gamers devouring every new title with FFA in its feature list. Lots of people tried DF1 for many different reasons and they left for just as many reasons. Even more people probably had the game on their radar but never got around playing it - for many reasons. Why not provide all these potential customers with some actual, coherent info and some actual gameplay footage?

Sure, the current DF1 players and many old players will try DFUW, but I'm sure just as many ex-players and people who once heard of the original game would try it too - if only there were some videos avaliable, or, you know, like an actual website/forum/whatever. As of now you have to visit the old fugly website and read blogs, forum posts, 3d party sites and so on to stay updated. Most people cba to invest that much energy just to get the most basic info. 

"Lowering the hype is not a bad thing"

Sure, but no one is asking for enormous PR drives, expensive commercials, extreme viral marketing and so on. We just want a bit more than a couple of 1 min vids and the random 3d party interview. Would be nice to have some clear answers about stuff like global/regional banking, tpv/fpv, trading tools, class balances, etc, etc. What we have are some well spread-out droplets of info, some facebook screenies and the aforementioned vids that are being analyzed to bits by the fans because that's all there is. It's like the game is two years off, not two weeks. 

How about some in-depth footage of actual combat, where several roles meet each other? Some PVE footage? This would not create a massive hype, it would just give the community something to chew on while waiting, and it would let people know more about what to expect from the game.

"AV are busy working on the game, they have no time for silly PR stuff"   

Bullshit. Putting a video together takes considerably less time than Tasos spends in the gym in one day.

 

Conclusion: this behaviour is strange, it sends out some bad signals, and it will hurt the game. Many people are already wary of AV, and this kind of "strategy" only strengthens that sentiment. It gives the impression that this is a shady/unprofessional company who either feels the need to hide 98% of their game just weeks before release, or lacks the most basic PR skills and common sense. Either way, it looks pretty bad. 

  tom_gore

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

11/08/12 9:59:19 AM#9
Originally posted by BiskopWhile server merges may be difficult in this type of game, there's always a solution if the population suddenly drops.

I'm pretty sure EA would be interested in this solution of yours. They could use it for UO (which has had zero server merges in it's whole existence and if you have played the game you would know why).

 

  indiramourn

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 881

MMOs require more reasoning and imagination than most stereotypically ''adult'' activities.

11/08/12 10:15:53 AM#10
I think Jakdstripper nailed it.  This is actually AV's style.  No advertising, barely any communication with their playerbase.  And their primary goal is to keep the fans they do have subscribed.
  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

11/08/12 10:43:47 AM#11
Originally posted by Greymoor

The biggest factor is probably server capacity.

- The DF severs can do 10,000 players concurrently, two servers which means 20,000 max at any one time

- This leads to a maximum population of probably 100-200k. With large queues around launch.

- EVERYONE who brought Darkfall 1.0, will not need to purchase 2.0.

- A lot of the old playerbase will atleast be giving 2.0 a try, they sold over 150,000 copies of the game.

 

Maths and logic clearly tells us they don't have a lot of room for advertising or releasing information because it will draw too much attention. The servers will already be full even with the current following and interest.

 

 

AV has said their target is 50K per server (total), plus theres the additonal 350K+ that trialed DF1 to consider. (emails went out to them also)  So we're looking at a pool of 500K+ without AV doing much of anything except sending email.

  Jawshua

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12

11/08/12 11:11:27 AM#12
Originally posted by Greymoor

The biggest factor is probably server capacity.

- The DF severs can do 10,000 players concurrently, two servers which means 20,000 max at any one time

- This leads to a maximum population of probably 100-200k. With large queues around launch.

- EVERYONE who brought Darkfall 1.0, will not need to purchase 2.0.

- A lot of the old playerbase will atleast be giving 2.0 a try, they sold over 150,000 copies of the game.

 

Maths and logic clearly tells us they don't have a lot of room for advertising or releasing information because it will draw too much attention. The servers will already be full even with the current following and interest.

--------

 

You have got to be kidding me.  It doesnt take a damn genius to record some ingame footage once a week or every day of the week to give us more info on whats going on.  12 days till release and we have 2 short ass stupid videos.  It costs nothing to have your internal testers record a few videos a week and share them with the people that are going to be paying their god damn paychecks.

 

  Ice-Queen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

11/08/12 11:16:11 AM#13
Originally posted by Biskop

Interesting to see people trying to defend this weird behaviour. I can't see any of these reasons holding up though, and here's why:

"They don't have server room for more than *insert random number here* players"

Server room can be purchased. Why would they want to purposely keep the playerbase low purely for technical reasons? It makes no sense at all. If 1000000000000000 people suddenly decides to play DFUW because of some gameplay videos, just use the fresh revenue to open new servers. While server merges may be difficult in this type of game, there's always a solution if the population suddenly drops. Better to spark an initial interest than to release this supposedly new game like one releases a silent fart in a dark room.

Besides, providing basic game info 2 weeks before release does not guarantee an insane amount of new players, but it's a nice gesture to the people actually waiting for the game. 

"They already have the market they're aiming for"

Not true. First of all, markets change. There is not one fixed "FFA full loot" niche market of X amount of gamers devouring every new title with FFA in its feature list. Lots of people tried DF1 for many different reasons and they left for just as many reasons. Even more people probably had the game on their radar but never got around playing it - for many reasons. Why not provide all these potential customers with some actual, coherent info and some actual gameplay footage?

Sure, the current DF1 players and many old players will try DFUW, but I'm sure just as many ex-players and people who once heard of the original game would try it too - if only there were some videos avaliable, or, you know, like an actual website/forum/whatever. As of now you have to visit the old fugly website and read blogs, forum posts, 3d party sites and so on to stay updated. Most people cba to invest that much energy just to get the most basic info. 

"Lowering the hype is not a bad thing"

Sure, but no one is asking for enormous PR drives, expensive commercials, extreme viral marketing and so on. We just want a bit more than a couple of 1 min vids and the random 3d party interview. Would be nice to have some clear answers about stuff like global/regional banking, tpv/fpv, trading tools, class balances, etc, etc. What we have are some well spread-out droplets of info, some facebook screenies and the aforementioned vids that are being analyzed to bits by the fans because that's all there is. It's like the game is two years off, not two weeks. 

How about some in-depth footage of actual combat, where several roles meet each other? Some PVE footage? This would not create a massive hype, it would just give the community something to chew on while waiting, and it would let people know more about what to expect from the game.

"AV are busy working on the game, they have no time for silly PR stuff"   

Bullshit. Putting a video together takes considerably less time than Tasos spends in the gym in one day.

 

Conclusion: this behaviour is strange, it sends out some bad signals, and it will hurt the game. Many people are already wary of AV, and this kind of "strategy" only strengthens that sentiment. It gives the impression that this is a shady/unprofessional company who either feels the need to hide 98% of their game just weeks before release, or lacks the most basic PR skills and common sense. Either way, it looks pretty bad. 

Aye, well said Biskop.

Myself, I've never played Darkfall, but I'd be interested to try the new one.

I have concerns though. Their lack of info makes me think they don't have much confidence in their product. That may not be the case but that's the impression I get, being a player that is looking at DarkFall:Unholy and I haven't ever played the original.

You'd think they would want to bring in new players. If they were happy with just the playerbase they had with Darkfall, they wouldn't have bothered to upgrade it, imo.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Greymoor

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/30/10
Posts: 812

 
OP  11/08/12 11:54:13 AM#14

It's not hard to make videos of your game.

It's not hard to post detailed information of your new mechanics months before release.

But they simply don't want OR need to.

They have the player base to fill the servers already. They don't want more otherwise it would only hurt their reputation. (See DF1.0 launch)

This will be a ghost launch compared to recent titles. Information will come out immediately before release. Advertising will come post release.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7679

Logic be damned!

11/08/12 12:02:13 PM#15

After playing DF1 for less then an hour before uninstalling it because the qualilty was SO low - it's hard to imagine they are "hiding" for any good purposes.

I went into my DF trial hoping for and expecting UO pre-Trammel with Elder Scrolls FPS combat.

I was wrong.

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Greymoor

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/30/10
Posts: 812

 
OP  11/08/12 3:53:13 PM#16
Originally posted by Jawshua
Originally posted by BadSpock

After playing DF1 for less then an hour before uninstalling it because the qualilty was SO low - it's hard to imagine they are "hiding" for any good purposes.

I went into my DF trial hoping for and expecting UO pre-Trammel with Elder Scrolls FPS combat.

I was wrong.

 

LOL "the quality was so low" 

Its morons like this that dont need to play real games like DF.  Probably got pk'd and cried and logged out and blamed it on the "quality"

OR maybe it was the aweful UI???

  Jawshua

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12

11/08/12 4:16:27 PM#17
Originally posted by Greymoor
Originally posted by Jawshua
Originally posted by BadSpock

After playing DF1 for less then an hour before uninstalling it because the qualilty was SO low - it's hard to imagine they are "hiding" for any good purposes.

I went into my DF trial hoping for and expecting UO pre-Trammel with Elder Scrolls FPS combat.

I was wrong.

 

LOL "the quality was so low" 

Its morons like this that dont need to play real games like DF.  Probably got pk'd and cried and logged out and blamed it on the "quality"

OR maybe it was the aweful UI???

lol, if you play a game for an hour, then quit because of the UI you are just as stupid.  You're saying you buy the game for the UI, so if you dont like it, that justifies the game being bad and quitting.  This is the kind of retardedness that unfortunately plagues our planet.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3250

Poacher killer.

11/08/12 4:30:10 PM#18
Originally posted by Jawshua
Originally posted by BadSpock

After playing DF1 for less then an hour before uninstalling it because the qualilty was SO low - it's hard to imagine they are "hiding" for any good purposes.

I went into my DF trial hoping for and expecting UO pre-Trammel with Elder Scrolls FPS combat.

I was wrong.

LOL "the quality was so low" 

Its morons like this that dont need to play real games like DF.  Probably got pk'd and cried and logged out and blamed it on the "quality"

Definitely a possibility, and he certainly wouldn't be the first. Hell, this guy played for even less time than EuroGamer's own; the infamous Ed Zitron. It really is difficult to take someone's opinion seriously when they've played for such minute amount of time. Especially with an mmo of this nature.

On topic, though; I honestly do not think Aventurine can handle a massively hyped launch. They need to reduce the amount of shock and awe level disappointment this time around, and that starts from day 1. However, AV are the only ones who really have an answer to all the hush hush. Hopefully we'll see something a little juicier either tomorrow or sometime next week. They gotta give us more than what we have this close to the big day. Either way I doubt all of our thirsts will be quenched until launch day. Personally, I can't frickin wait. 

 

 

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 887

There's some lovely filth down here.

11/08/12 6:16:11 PM#19

Back on topic:

 

As long as there are enough people in the game world for it to be fun for ME, then I don't care about anything else.  Judging from the increased activity on Forumfall and the recruiting posts here and on Forumfall from defunct 1.0 clans looking to come back for 2.0, there should be a relatively healthy population to start off with.  For me to be happy, of course; can't speak for anyone else.

  xracerx8000

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/04
Posts: 33

11/08/12 8:54:20 PM#20
Originally posted by Zushakon
Originally posted by BadSpock

After playing DF1 for less then an hour before uninstalling it because the qualilty was SO low - it's hard to imagine they are "hiding" for any good purposes.

I went into my DF trial hoping for and expecting UO pre-Trammel with Elder Scrolls FPS combat.

I was wrong.

[mod edit]

Spot on what happened to me, execpt the goblins killed me because they had infinite range. 

However I am interested in DFUW as there are no other pvp rewarding games, and believe it or not I think this game will be successful.

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