Originally posted by Theocritus
      I like how EQ handled death in the old days....IT made you respect what was going on around you, and you had to learn how to play (often with others) to stay alive......I'm just not sure if 13 years later the player base would be able to handle it......I jsut dont see todays communities taking time to go help other players like they did with corpse runs in old EQ.

I love the old days in EQ with the corpse runs, Was good risk vs reward, better loot/xp came from mobs deeper in the zone, but it was a little risker often you would test a group at a closer camp and if you handled that fine you would go deeper. Also helped the community aswell cause necros could summon your corpse, clerics,pallies,necros could rezz it for Xp return, and rogues stealth also helped alot in open zones they could drag your corpse to you and wizards and druids had evac spell which would be handy when things got tuff.

Edit: forgot to mention about soul binding from other players aswell. So you respawn in the area you were hunting.

What people always seem to forget about EQ 1 is the lack of overall deaths compared to pretty much every other game out there. You can allow for a big penalty if you're not dying every 5 seconds like WoW. In Classic EQ 1 you could go a whole week without dying once if you're very careful and have good judgement.

So in short, yes I want xp penalties but i also want smart players to die ALOT less like, AKA no mobs with +300% movement speed or other nonsense that EQ1 never had.

People say they want death penalties because there is no reason to bother trying to survive. Why isn't the incentive doing it well on the first try or not giving up mid fight? So what if you don't lose experience after you die or undergo significant item decay? I played EQ (a troll, but a warrior, so that helped offset the racial penalty) on release and loved Vanguard and hated how much they reduced the repair prices shortly after release (but that was the least of its issues). 

What you're saying is its not worth the effort unless you're punished for not making the effort. I played TOR, WoW, RIft and all that jazz and even if dying had no noticeable penalty it still didn't mean giving up on a boss fight until the last man is down. The fact that you aren't willing to try because there is no penalty is worse than there not being a penalty at all. 

Offtopic but the Equipment Expertise was one of the greatest ideas in Vanguard. So sad it got removed too.

Originally posted by JimmyYO

What people always seem to forget about EQ 1 is the lack of overall deaths compared to pretty much every other game out there. You can allow for a big penalty if you're not dying every 5 seconds like WoW. In Classic EQ 1 you could go a whole week without dying once if you're very careful and have good judgement.

So in short, yes I want xp penalties but i also want smart players to die ALOT less like, AKA no mobs with +300% movement speed or other nonsense that EQ1 never had.

Think my record was about 2 and ahalf months no deaths then i died 4 times in the same night in a new zone ive never been to : ) was fun adventuring into that zone though worth the deaths : )

Originally posted by augustgrace

Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

Sad world indeed.

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by augustgrace

Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

 

This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

Sad world indeed.

Doesn't matter because he can play on a normal rule server. All the people saying no have a choice to avoid the hardcore rule server. 

Smed knows that many of us who played EQ for years will be happy to go back to harsher rules. I play Vanguard which has quite a harsh death penalty compared to the likes  of GW2 and other kiddy MMOs.

You lose XP and you have a tomb that you can go and collect. In a way you can down level even though the level you are stays the same you still have to make up that xp again.

Your not hit as hard as EQ but you rewally don't want to die.

There really wont be an issue.

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by augustgrace

Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

 

This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

Sad world indeed.

For someone who is die hard GW2 fan your whole post reeks of irony. You should be the last person to point fingers at any casual players in a topic called 'who wants punishing deaths'.

The day you stop supporting and playing 'casual heaven' games like GW2, your words will have some weight.

Originally posted by Torgrim

This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

Sad world indeed.

GW2 fan flaming a casual player for not wanting 'punishing death penalities'? 

/faceplam

Now i have seen everything that is to be seen on these forums. Oh God...lol

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by augustgrace

Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

 

This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

Sad world indeed.

For someone who is die hard GW2 fan your whole post reeks of irony. You should be the last person to point fingers at any casual players in a topic called 'who wants punishing deaths'.

The day you stop supporting and playing 'casual heaven' games like GW2, your words will have some weight.

 

 

+1

Originally posted by lifeordinary

Originally posted by Torgrim

This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

Sad world indeed.

GW2 fan flaming a casual player for not wanting 'punishing death penalities'? 

/faceplam

Now i have seen everything that is to be seen on these forums. Oh God...lol

The problem i'm seeing is some of these die hard fans are forgetting what they have been saying for the last 2 months.

Originally posted by madazz

I miss being punished

There's just so much...I...can't touch this.  Next topic!

Well if death will be punishing in EQNext you can be sure that will be 'punish relief' in cash shop sooner or later.

Anyway I just got here to read a bit abut people reaction to this idea. Personally don't care much one way or another other than what effect on other mmorpg's EQNext features might have as I won't be playing EXNext myself cause of busiess model.

im gonna be honest in that if they choose a random "rule" for te sake of a rule, and ignore the lore of the game and provide absolutely no depth around the system (and this goes for all systems) then they are wasting their time.

most people dont realize it but you create depth by expanding on base systems to provide lots of flexibility and options.

dont make rules for the sake of having them. Make them tie into the lore.

bring back the corpse run says I!

Corpse runs in UO were a lot of fun, a big rush of excitement - in PvE when I was playing with friends.

They were annoying and overly harsh playing solo, so I'd just avoid any difficult areas (dungeons mostly) unless I was playing with friends.

In PvP, well you'd just make sure to not wear anything you didn't want to lose.

So for a good PvP session in Felucca I'd have to first make or purchase a bunch of spare sets of armor / weapons.

I guess that "prep" was cool and fun at the time, but would I get the same enjoyment out of it now?

Probably not.

I am very strongly against any kind of XP penalties for death though. It's like kicking you when you're down.

XP penalty + corpse run is masochism.

Kind of an interesting logic problem though -

In a game with corpse runs and item loss on death, the loot can't matter too much as it's far too punishing for people to permanently lose something they've worked so hard for.

This is why it "worked" in UO - none of the gear was really all that special.

But if the loot is not all that special, why make it drop in the first place if it's so easily replaced? Not like it's worth much to the person who steals it, and not like it's hard to replace in a PvE death.

So it's kind of pointless IMO from a design perspective.

Only design that makes sense is to have loot loss / corpse runs AND make the gear actually worth something so it's actually meaningful as a penalty - but in todays day and age it's just far, far too harsh a system to ever work in a game that wants to retain more than 10-25k players.

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by augustgrace

Well over a decade ago when I was playing UO, I would have agreed with you on punishing death.  But then I had no real responsibilities, plenty of free time, the arrogance of youth, and there weren't many alternatives to compare UO to.  

Older now, with work, a family and a house to take care of, my gaming time is precious and I have no desire to spend that time doing corpse runs or earning back lost gear/exp.  

I even tried going back to UO a couple years ago, and the same activities and penalties I enjoyed years ago, just felt like work.  These days I want to have fun during my gaming sessions.  I don't want to spend my time polishing my e-peen or pursuing grindy activities.

 

This person is what game developers are listening to that's why we have so many casual WoW clones flooding the MMO world.

Sad world indeed.

For someone who is die hard GW2 fan your whole post reeks of irony. You should be the last person to point fingers at any casual players in a topic called 'who wants punishing deaths'.

The day you stop supporting and playing 'casual heaven' games like GW2, your words will have some weight.

 

 

i enjoy Gw2 for the simple reason that GW2 feels fresh and new compare to the rest of the lot.

And yes I would have more death penelty in GW2 aswell so people will group up more often.

Would It thelp that I also play EVE from time to time since 2003 and doing PVP on a regular basis? ( on EVE break atm)

One more thing can you please direct me to a game that is a AAA and has a deep crafting,great PVE,awesome PVP, huge world, great graphics, housing with decoration, smart AI mobs,living world fantasy MMO?

And No don't bother posting MO or Darkfall or Vanguard for that matter, played all three of them liked VG the most but lacked PVP.

Plane of Hate raid corpse run........the horror.

But I would do it all over again.