Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Karteli

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but MUD's in the early 1990's allowed inspects.  It's not a new concept.

It is not an ODD feature.

Concern is here.  Hence why this thread was created.  MUD's were very social.  GW2 is not. I've identified the reasons for this.

It is not an odd feature, no but hardly something a game must have either.

Yes, you might accidently add a player with vendortrash gear in the dungeons, but I can frankly spot those on looks anyways.

The only part I miss with it is when I see someone with really cool looking gear and want to know what type it is, but the whisper function usually helps me with that.

Yes, GW2 do lack some stuff that it should have, particularly the guildhalls but inspect is a rather insignificant feature that only is needed in games that have fashion gear.

In GW2 there are a few players who bought skins or have HoM skins, they are really the only ones you need to inspect. If you are in a PUG with 4 players in storebought skin you might get a nasty surprise, but that is it.

I wont complain if they add the feature, but I dont care that it isnt in either.

Hey, if they add features, Great!

 

But if they continue to ignore people who want a social MMORPG, then so be it.  Their popularity will continue to decline.

 

I would think the features I suggested to make GW2 more social would be only beneficial.  If you think this game would be left without features, that's your opinion.  I find GW2 unappealing in it's current social state.

 

What you are saying is not like any other game that comes out.  You restrict change.  Just like SWTOR, the fanbase who restricts change, will also tumble GW2.

 

If you love a game, you will acknowledge that there is room for improvement.  Overall usage of this game is down, so you "might" see a bit of room for improvement.  Menu Server population numbers are manipulated. XFIRE tells all (unless you say the huge XFire spike when this game came out was a fluke).

I wouldn't call inspect an improvement. The opposite actually it breeds elitism like crazy. That is the last thing any game needs.

As for Xfire take it elsewhere. It doesn't show anything until it fully documents its userbase and their habits. People who actually thought about it have realised this long ago.

Honestly, if there is one improvement I wanna suggest, it's that their zones could stand to have a central goal to them.

The observation I have made based on the zones I did play in, is that the zones are a massive cluster of sub-objectives, but there isn't anything to ty them together, or at the very least make them FEEL related to each other.

Take for example that Fire Elemental boss fight in Metrica Province. It's supposed to be super dangerous, but because of it's static position and the fact that the event chain that leads up to it is in one tiny corner of that zone, it ends up feeling very in consequential and just a side thing, rather than anything major or noteworthy.

MY idea would be to make that Fire Elemental move around the entirety of the map, with a few safe areas for protection. The central story of that zone is now about stopping this freak fire elemental, all the while helping to deal with aftermath of the damage inflicted by said firestorm. We can even go further and tie it into the relatively unknown Inquest group, thus giving said group more relevance.

It should be noted that even with this suggestion in place, the dynamic events themselves don't need to go in a linear fashion; they can still be spread around, only now they can relate to a central goal instead of feeling like a bunch of random objectives placed purely for the sake of being there.

I hope this suggestion was written decently and actually made sense.

Originally posted by Karteli

 However it also brings a new form of anti-social gaming in the disguise of an MMORPG that real gamers should be concerned about.

There is no social community in GW2.  Other games facilitate this by adding emotes, inspects, and intricate /who commands to give a general idea for each player to identify with their surroundings.  Guild Wars 2 provides none of this.

As a saving grace, GW2 does provide a few emotes, like /bow.  You can't /smile, /frown, /bounce, etc, though.  There are only a dozen emotes that are allowed, which are non-confrontational.  EverQuest 1 & WoW released with something like 100+ emotes .. GW2 can't do that too?

What better way to compare yourself to others than to inspect them?  GW2 won't let you do that.  It's too confrontational, and could leave to rivalries. :(

Which leads me into my next part.  The reason why Guild Wars 2 has no social community is because it has no rivalries.  Everyone is equal at max level.  There is, in fact, no reason to love or hate any other player.  There is no emotion in anything this game offers.  The other players might as well be NPC's and all but the top 1% would notice the difference.

Hmmm other games facilitate social communities by those methods? I guess you're really missing out on grouping with other people for anything from a PvP match, a dungeon, leveling up alts with friends, to a strike team in WvW. I also see folks walking around town and hanging out in corners RPing, but I'm on that server.

No inspect = a player can transmute and do whatever they like for appearance, and the only way to know what they have is by having them link you their equipment. Much less prying into others, but if you feel like folks are using crap gear, you may never know. I don't really care for this inspect everything about a character by right clicking on them feature, it makes them appear more like NPC companion and less like People with tad of mystery about them. For me, having an "inspect gear" option is an anti-social feature, often promoting elitism doesn't make sense to me for an RPG aspect amongst other players.

Plenty of reasons to love or hate other players, but I don't see you offering good reasoning for that - do you have to inspect their gear for that to be a realization? lol

In the end you believe rivalries are the reason for social communities, but your reasoning for the existance of a social community and your definition of a social community are skewed. That's how I see it anyways :)

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Karteli

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but MUD's in the early 1990's allowed inspects.  It's not a new concept.

It is not an ODD feature.

Concern is here.  Hence why this thread was created.  MUD's were very social.  GW2 is not. I've identified the reasons for this.

It is not an odd feature, no but hardly something a game must have either.

Yes, you might accidently add a player with vendortrash gear in the dungeons, but I can frankly spot those on looks anyways.

The only part I miss with it is when I see someone with really cool looking gear and want to know what type it is, but the whisper function usually helps me with that.

Yes, GW2 do lack some stuff that it should have, particularly the guildhalls but inspect is a rather insignificant feature that only is needed in games that have fashion gear.

In GW2 there are a few players who bought skins or have HoM skins, they are really the only ones you need to inspect. If you are in a PUG with 4 players in storebought skin you might get a nasty surprise, but that is it.

I wont complain if they add the feature, but I dont care that it isnt in either.

Hey, if they add features, Great!

 

But if they continue to ignore people who want a social MMORPG, then so be it.  Their popularity will continue to decline.

 

I would think the features I suggested to make GW2 more social would be only beneficial.  If you think this game would be left without features, that's your opinion.  I find GW2 unappealing in it's current social state.

 

What you are saying is not like any other game that comes out.  You restrict change.  Just like SWTOR, the fanbase who restricts change, will also tumble GW2.

 

If you love a game, you will acknowledge that there is room for improvement.  Overall usage of this game is down, so you "might" see a bit of room for improvement.  Menu Server population numbers are manipulated. XFIRE tells all (unless you say the huge XFire spike when this game came out was a fluke).

I wouldn't call inspect an improvement. The opposite actually it breeds elitism like crazy. That is the last thing any game needs.

As for Xfire take it elsewhere. It doesn't show anything until it fully documents its userbase and their habits. People who actually thought about it have realised this long ago.

[mod edit]

Yes they where. 

Elitism is a competative subset, but not one you need or want. They don't actually want to compete, but to scorn those they deem below them. It is actual anti social.

[mod edit]

GW2 does not lack player interativite cause thats something that depends on you...

if u want to interact with people u will.

i like playing solo but after a while i just started to interact with people arround me and now i got like at least 4 FULL time partners that always play together doing explo/dungs/pvp... and i just started to looking for that interactivite 2 days ago -_-

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Scalpless

There's always roo for imrovement, but additional emotes and /inspect are at the bottom of my list. I also don't think they add anything social to the game. If you want to know what another player is wearing, ask them. That's also more social than spying on them via chat.

Guild Halls, improved dungeons, more complex dynamic events and other things that encourage co-operation are what would improve GW2's social structure.

Also, please, tinfoil hats and XFire numbers? Again? Whyyy?

In < red > list em.

 

Guild Halls?

Think about it.   Social the first few days or even a week.  After that, pfft..  Runes of Magic had more social mechanisms than GW2 and their guild halls were still rather boring.

 

More complex dynamic events?

It's still not social.  You don't even know the people that helped you.  They may as well have been NPC's, complicated or not..

 

Emotes at the bottom of this list for being social?  REALLY?  Emotes are the source of expression betwen players.  This says a whole lot about your feelings, and your post.

Guild Halls allow for GvG matches and other competitive events between guilds. They're also a place to hang out with your guild mates and show them those emotes you're talking about.

As for more complex DEs, they require players to interact more with each other. For example, during Halloween there was a Lunatic Court event in Kessex that required players to defend three separate locations simultaneously to open the gates to the Mad King's realm. As a result, map chat was more lively than usual. DEs should encourage players to use the map chat to coordinate attacks and such, especially in high-end areas like Orr. There's a "war" going on, but it's more like three separate lines that don't cross. If there was a difficult event that required some players to use siege engines while others storm the gates, for example, people would talk to each other more.

Also, right now, DEs are so simple most players don't really learn how to play the game. Then they enter a dungeon with their glass cannon AoE DPS builds, get slaughtered and go complain on the forums or just quit dungeons altogether. If DEs required at least some thinking and encouraged group play more by rewarding buffs, combo fields and other ways of helping other players, people wouldn't have so much trouble with dungeons and would be a bit more eager to play together. After all, dungeons are the only PvE activity that requires grouping in GW2. Of course, they need to fix the bugs that plague many dungeons, too. Those fixes are long overdue.

I've never been a fan of emotes. I can express myself just fine through text.

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Eluldor
I'm pretty sure xfire is only used by the hardcore crowd, and even amongst that crowd - it is still not used by many (nobody I know uses it :) ). Pretty easy to see this as a valid claim since its numbers are fractions of any game's box sales or subscriptions. Plenty of folks don't even think people still use Xfire :D Expanding on the definition of hardcore, these folks will be most always be playing the new games at release. Perhaps more accurately, the folks who continue to use xfire game way too much and go through content way too fast and are not an accurate reflection of the majority. They are simply a reflection of people without other hobbies :P

There is a pretty good selection of games that Xfire users play.  Scroll down, they are not hardcore games.

It it not used by mnany - this is true.  It is, however used by some, enough to give a sample set.  The sample set is used to show trends.

Trends which showed GW2 usage at 5x what it is currently, and MoP usage at 3x to what it is also currently.  It also showed the SWTOR spike of users, along with TSW, and every other MMO game, apparently.

All flukes? lulz.

I'll give you that it provides some degree of accuracy for the folks who may play through content the fastest, and then would be able to help predict a downfall using that information. The rate of the downfall is still out there to be influenced by other sources, and if anything it shows that people are spending more time gaming than doing other things :)

Originally posted by Karteli

There is no social community in GW2.
 

This is because there is no grouping in GW2. No group dynamics = no reason to socialize, period.

I think my post history speaks for itself - I am generally dismissive of ill-thought out criticisms of GW2, and indeed the odd breathless fanboy outburst.

However, despite this - I find the OP's critical point of view to be true.

It isn't the best presented arguement, and it mirrors a number of other simlilar threads, but it is fundamentally right.

GW2 does not lack the tools for RP interraction, nor does it force solo play - far from it. These arguements are way off the mark.

But it doesn't give Guilds anything significant to work towards. Before you cry - 'what about the buffs!', let me say this - 'what about the buffs?' They are fluff for the most part and don't feel like the kind of achievement they should be.

WvW doesn't feel quite right too - I played AoC before this and found that despite the combat being buggy as hell and frustrating, the sense of achievement at defending YOUR OWN keep, or demolishing THEIR keep gave a sense of catharsis GW2 currently doesn't.

In my not-so-humble opinion there should be meaty stuff for Guilds to get together to do - Guild Quests, Guild Dungeons, and more persistent acheivements in Guild-centric PvP.

Exalted were a force to be reckoned with in AoC and elsewhere in the day, and aimed to be so in GW2 as well. But as nameless 'Red Invaders' or 'keepless vagrants' we find nothing to focus on - no solid center around which this necessary online identitiy and presence can form.

This is not the fault of players or Guilds - it is the framework of the game in which we find ourselves and it should be tackled by ANet with all due haste.

Just my two pennies on the subject....

Originally posted by maddhatter44

Where is the guild wars in  guild wars?

Guild Wars 1 had guild wars and it was only because lore made up choices to join other NPC GUILDS and later on your guild could fight other guilds in favor of your "guild/faction"...

Since every race or guild willing to fight joined up to fight the dragons there really is no reason for people to keep fighting against each other when they're fighting the dragons in order to save the world.

The only ones I can think of which could help the world of Tyria and aren't joining in the fight, yet, are the Tengu. Since last time they got screwed up they locked themselves inside dominion of winds and only the 6 gods, probably, now know what they're doing inside. :D

Originally posted by neosapience

Originally posted by Karteli

There is no social community in GW2.
 

 

This is because there is no grouping in GW2. No group dynamics = no reason to socialize, period.

But there IS GROUPING... Only difference is that you don't have to click on someones portrait and select "invite". You're "automatically" given the chance to do events when you all engage in it... I had a great exp with community so far on random events, maps, w3, etc... People are linking events on map, asking for help, helping or just doing random exploring together.. I helped more random people, and also had random people helping me (without even asking for help most of the time) waay more than I seen in any other mmorpg so far and I really don't get this "there's no social community in GW2".

On XFire - We have closed threads relating to XFire, because they just lead to fighting (people hardly ever bring up XFire numbers to make positive points, for instance) and because it generally winds up looking like this:

XFire is accurate!

XFire is worthless!

So please refrain from further XFire discussion in here. Here's MikeB's post on the matter.

Originally posted by bcbully
Corners were cut. I know people don't like to here that, but it can be seen in systems throught the game. A lot of RPG elements just didn't make the cut.

Could you please elaborate??

Originally posted by itgrowls

shouldn't this belong in the GW2 forums under requests?

 

I am very happy there isn't code for addons so we don't play guild-ons 2 instead of gw2. and that there isn't and inspect button or command those i wish to ask about their wear i ask in a tell.

Love the antisocial arguemnt, yeah that's why almost ALL of the bonuses in the game are guild related and can only be earned temporarily via participation with other guildies.

The other bonuses in the game come from WvW which pretty much eliminates any argument that they don't have well thought out pvp objectives or pointless kill fests.

Why is it that people who are generally anti-social themselves project that onto other games? sure this game doesn't have notifications when someone logs on or off on the friends or guild roster but that doesn't stop you from talking to someone at random when you are impressed with something they did. I just joined an active guild the reason i joined, is not only did they rez me when they didn't have to to get credit for a champion kill, they gave me items for free and asked if i wanted to join their very large party of people while they went thru and rampaged an area for completing a map, even tho my participation wouldn't add to their points in the guild, AND dropped some banners for me to use for the 30 min bonuses to everything.

If you're having an anti-social time, it's definitely not the game.

I know...  It's weird...    Sure, I come from an old, established GW1 guild...    And so my 'social' life was easy to establish in the game.

But I find quite a few socials in the game.   Especially late at night.    For example, last night I was mining Mithril & Orichalcum (sp) in the Cursed Shore and got a party invite during a DE that started when I came back to the northern outpost to sell my loot. I accepted it and we ran the chain from north to south.   

Then I went back to harvesting and got another group invite and we went mining/harvesting and skill-point collecting...

And yet, periodically, I run into these "this game is the most anti-social game ever..."     It's like these people never played in a REAL anti-social MMO.   You want "anti-social" go play Eve Online and head down to 0.0...    Not including the bots, there are close to 400K anti-socials playing in that game...

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by bcbully
Corners were cut. I know people don't like to here that, but it can be seen in systems throught the game. A lot of RPG elements just didn't make the cut.

Could you please elaborate??

The little things, they added up for me. Things like going to the "battle master guy" The one you enter into a spvp match. Why does he give you a list of "servers"? It may sound silly, but it was a jarring immersion break.

Blending of the game worlds. This is a step in development where pvp and pve are balanced to create one world. GW2 left that out. You can say that it was because of this and that, but it was a step left out, and again it was a jarring design decision to me, that left the game world being 3 seperate games in one box. 

Emotes, I've never played a game with so few. 

Gear design 1-80. A decision had to be made that variety pre-cap is not that important. 

I could go on, but things like this stand out.

I logged into GW2 today to give it another try and I lasted about 15 minutes. I just don't get that MMO feel from it. It isn't a bad game, but it has nothing worthwhile to keep me playing it.

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by tank017

I agree that GW2 isnt very social as compared to some other mmo's..

 

but emotes and inspecting people do not make a social game.Why would one need to inspect anyone in todays mmos? everyone pretty much has the same gear for the most part.Whatever the latest and greatest is,thats what people shoot for.

 

emotes,to me,are nothing but fluff.

 

 

What rivalries are you looking for? im not sure I follow really...do you mean other factions? I would think that the other servers that give your server its run for its money would be your rival.

Inspects are rivalries.  In GW2's case it would be legendaries.

Progression is another form of rivalry.  Individual PVP "duels" might be another rivalry.  Essentially someone having more than someone else, be it status, gear, or recognition.

 

These are some of the rivalries I was talking about. [not more factions]

 

RvR is not really any form of rivals, because, well you can just change servers.  Also any victors who performed exceptionally are anonymous.

 

edit: players for SWTOR have been also telling EA that there needs to be more competitive rivalvies (in this case, minigames, Swoop Racing, Pazzak, Sabaak, Freeroam 3D space combat PVP, etc).  EA also ignored this and people just stop playing.  An uncompetitive MMORPG is just asking for disaster.

While the term rivalry is synonomous with the word competition, people tend to use it when refering to specific person, team etc rather than the broader term competition when applying it towards general game features.

I agree with you, MMORPG's agree best when everyone is competing (in a fair & friendly way) with everyone else.  It's what I enjoy best about them and why I stick with a title  like EVE which provides this is just about every aspect of the gameplay.

But we're not all wired the same way, many people (perhaps a majority of players) don't care for this design mentality, and ANET decided to create their game catering to their preferences instead.

They can't really lose customers, they got what they wanted from everyone from the initial purchase price and they'll likely get most folks to return when the next expansion hits.