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PvE & Crafting  » Ascalonian Catacombs and my first Dungeon Experience

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96 posts found
  cybertrucker

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1127

Freeloading mooches are the scourge of the gaming community.

 
OP  11/04/12 10:24:18 PM#1

Well tonight was an experience. Tonight I ventured forth into Ascalonian Catacombs for the first time. My character is a level 33 Elementalist (love the class). We had a level 30 warrior, a level 67 rogue, and 2 level 80 rangers.. All scaled down of coarse.

First let me say I have really been enjoying GW2 overall, however I have to ask.. Are all the dungeon runs going to be like this? I read on the forums and on these forums before about Rez Zerging. I was like well there has to be a way, so I stayed positive. While the Dungeon was amazing with its atmosphere, the mechanics of combat against the mobs inside were just terrible and in no way fun. We spent 2 and a half hours in that dungeon and probably over an hour running back from rezzing.

I enjoy challenging content. However having a chance to say wow that was close and actually making it out alive without dieing is nice too. The mechanics in GW2 in no way offer that. We beat the dungeon, granted the lovers posed us some issues for a bit. But if you run back and forth enough you are bound to win.

I have always been a dungeon runner in games I have played and I joked around with my friends that tonight would be a make it or break it night for me. I am really liking the game, but the mechanics IN dungeons...just dont work.

Thoughts and opinions? Also do they ever get better or will it be like this in every dungeon run?

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

11/04/12 10:28:32 PM#2

have you watched youtube video of them? you can see people doing speed runs without a single corpse run in almost all dungeons.. all have mechanics and while some harder than others once you learn the mechanics they aren't so bad.. you just need most of your team on the same page and you won't have the need to zerg run them at all:)

IMHO they are a lot harder to learn at first than trinity based games dungeons but once you learn them you won't have many issues...

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Betakodo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 339

11/04/12 10:30:30 PM#3

Dungeons are all like this. It seems like Arenanet did not play test the dungeons AT ALL. Either that or they ran through with God mode on, 1 shot everything and called it a day.

A huge step backwards from Guild Wars 1. All they did to make it difficult was up the damage to a stupid level and give dungeon monsters a stupidly high amount of HP. The HP on the monsters kind of makes it ridiculous, because you sit there for a few minutes just unleashing blows and shots on something that's supposed to be human.

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2773

11/04/12 10:33:40 PM#4
Originally posted by Aerowyn

have you watched youtube video of them? you can see people doing speed runs without a single corpse run in almost all dungeons.. all have mechanics and while some harder than others once you learn the mechanics they aren't so bad.. you just need most of your team on the same page and you won't have the need to zerg run them at all:)

IMHO they are a lot harder to learn at first than trinity based games dungeons but once you learn them you won't have many issues...

It's horribly unbalanced for a players first dungeon experience.  It totally turned me off from doing a single other GW2 dungeon.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

11/04/12 10:35:16 PM#5
Originally posted by Betakodo

Dungeons are all like this. It seems like Arenanet did not play test the dungeons AT ALL. Either that or they ran through with God mode on, 1 shot everything and called it a day.

A huge step backwards from Guild Wars 1. All they did to make it difficult was up the damage to a stupid level and give dungeon monsters a stupidly high amount of HP. The HP on the monsters kind of makes it ridiculous, because you sit there for a few minutes just unleashing blows and shots on something that's supposed to be human.

just watch the guides on youtube almost every single one has very easy mechanics to every fight and how to get around.. only problem is people are so used to easy mode dungeons.. but once you know the dungeon layout and the fights it becomes easy mode in this game as well

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

11/04/12 10:36:25 PM#6
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by Aerowyn

have you watched youtube video of them? you can see people doing speed runs without a single corpse run in almost all dungeons.. all have mechanics and while some harder than others once you learn the mechanics they aren't so bad.. you just need most of your team on the same page and you won't have the need to zerg run them at all:)

IMHO they are a lot harder to learn at first than trinity based games dungeons but once you learn them you won't have many issues...

It's horribly unbalanced for a players first dungeon experience.  It totally turned me off from doing a single other GW2 dungeon.

so a little bit of a challenge and you quit? even AC explorable modes can be ran through in no time at all

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 626

11/04/12 10:37:45 PM#7
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by Aerowyn

have you watched youtube video of them? you can see people doing speed runs without a single corpse run in almost all dungeons.. all have mechanics and while some harder than others once you learn the mechanics they aren't so bad.. you just need most of your team on the same page and you won't have the need to zerg run them at all:)

IMHO they are a lot harder to learn at first than trinity based games dungeons but once you learn them you won't have many issues...

It's horribly unbalanced for a players first dungeon experience.  It totally turned me off from doing a single other GW2 dungeon.

Doesnt take from the fact that if you are good you can do speed runs of 30 minutes in the hardest dungeons.

It rewards skill and planification. And in my opinion thats a good thing.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

11/04/12 10:41:10 PM#8
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by Aerowyn

have you watched youtube video of them? you can see people doing speed runs without a single corpse run in almost all dungeons.. all have mechanics and while some harder than others once you learn the mechanics they aren't so bad.. you just need most of your team on the same page and you won't have the need to zerg run them at all:)

IMHO they are a lot harder to learn at first than trinity based games dungeons but once you learn them you won't have many issues...

It's horribly unbalanced for a players first dungeon experience.  It totally turned me off from doing a single other GW2 dungeon.

Doesnt take from the fact that if you are good you can do speed runs of 30 minutes in the hardest dungeons.

It rewards skill and planification. And in my opinion thats a good thing.

i agree.. my first run throughs of AC i got destroyed over and over.. then got together with a better group of players and we made it without a single wipe.. later on did the same dungeon with a speed run group and man you can fly through those things when everyone knows what to do...

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  cybertrucker

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1127

Freeloading mooches are the scourge of the gaming community.

 
OP  11/04/12 10:41:38 PM#9

Well I for one did not find it fun.. Ok let me rephrase that. I did not find the combat fun in the least... The Atmosphere of the dungeon and the story of the dungeon was top notch. The spirits flying thru the air and zipping down halls just added something. However. I hear people say it can be done without rez zerging. Maybe it does take time and practice. But with no real crowd control, no real tanks, no real healing *that can keep up with the damage being put out*  and the damage the mobs can take on top of it.. Like i said It just didnt seem fun, or really even challenging. Just annoying.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

11/04/12 10:44:25 PM#10
Originally posted by cybertrucker

Well I for one did not find it fun.. Ok let me rephrase that. I did not find the combat fun in the least... The Atmosphere of the dungeon and the story of the dungeon was top notch. The spirits flying thru the air and zipping down halls just added something. However. I hear people say it can be done without rez zerging. Maybe it does take time and practice. But with no real crowd control, no real tanks, no real healing *that can keep up with the damage being put out*  and the damage the mobs can take on top of it.. Like i said It just didnt seem fun, or really even challenging. Just annoying.

if you go in with the mindset that you can take on the dungeons with a holy trinity style of play you will get destroyed.. but saying that each person does have a role and you all need to use them well and the dungeon will be a cakewalk for you... i was in the same boat as you until i got with a good group of players and it completely changed my perspective on them

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  cybertrucker

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1127

Freeloading mooches are the scourge of the gaming community.

 
OP  11/04/12 10:46:29 PM#11

For the record i was running a mix of DPS and healing support with my ele... I have been putting alot of trait points into Water. However Healing was a joke. I am maxed at my tier in fire and water. I even had a revive loaded. Which came into play several times.

I will probably give it another go in explore mode before I decide anything. The rest of the game is alot of fun though. So theres that.

  Beezerbeez

Novice Member

Joined: 2/22/04
Posts: 264

11/04/12 11:02:56 PM#12

Hop on Tarnished Coast sometime and give me a holler: revena.6039

Dungeons are tough at first until you get used to them.  There are a lot of mechanics to learn and some gimmicks as well.  I don't recommend a pick up group for your first few runs.  It takes some practice to learn efficient ways to play your character and to beat bosses and trash.  Things like: when to dodge, when to absorb a hit, when to kite, when to melee, what your class brings to the table, what to expect from others.  The bottom line is:  they get better and more fun as you learn the ropes.

Sure, you may have had the perfect makeup for your run, but chances are people were making some mistakes.  These dungeons are not forgiving.  It's kind of like riding a motorcycle: you get instant feedback on whether or not you're doing it right! :D

They are tough but completing them sure feels good!  Good luck out there.

Noone isn't a word; It's "no one". On a side note, you can guess where the word "none" came from.
------------------------------
Their, There, and They're are not interchangeable.

  Swanea

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 2380

11/04/12 11:20:00 PM#13
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by cybertrucker

Well I for one did not find it fun.. Ok let me rephrase that. I did not find the combat fun in the least... The Atmosphere of the dungeon and the story of the dungeon was top notch. The spirits flying thru the air and zipping down halls just added something. However. I hear people say it can be done without rez zerging. Maybe it does take time and practice. But with no real crowd control, no real tanks, no real healing *that can keep up with the damage being put out*  and the damage the mobs can take on top of it.. Like i said It just didnt seem fun, or really even challenging. Just annoying.

if you go in with the mindset that you can take on the dungeons with a holy trinity style of play you will get destroyed.. but saying that each person does have a role and you all need to use them well and the dungeon will be a cakewalk for you... i was in the same boat as you until i got with a good group of players and it completely changed my perspective on them

So basically, since there is no real group content before the FIRST dungeon, people should totally understand how to function with a group of others and yet still do everything they can to survive huge burst damage / cc that they have never seen before?  You're right, people are built around the holy trinity.  The hearts/open events do NOT require any sort of coordination or anything to complete at lower levels.  So from going from not having to worry about a thing to this?  That is quite extreme.

I'm all for challenge, but they need to give a break in period so people understand. Ease them into the experience.  Some people might claim "lol too badz, it needz to be hardz cuz u sux!!" or something similar.  Great!  That isn't what arenanet wants for a business model to push people out of one large aspect of their game.

The game is so heavily solo based that these instances are such a giant step in the other direction, especially those used to instances from other games.  I don't feel that the normal modes are hard, but I've watched people in my group die again and again and again and again.  Why is it "fun" to watch a video of someone else do an instance on regular mode? 

Explore mode is something else.

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2773

11/04/12 11:30:49 PM#14
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by Aerowyn

have you watched youtube video of them? you can see people doing speed runs without a single corpse run in almost all dungeons.. all have mechanics and while some harder than others once you learn the mechanics they aren't so bad.. you just need most of your team on the same page and you won't have the need to zerg run them at all:)

IMHO they are a lot harder to learn at first than trinity based games dungeons but once you learn them you won't have many issues...

It's horribly unbalanced for a players first dungeon experience.  It totally turned me off from doing a single other GW2 dungeon.

Doesnt take from the fact that if you are good you can do speed runs of 30 minutes in the hardest dungeons.

It rewards skill and planification. And in my opinion thats a good thing.

Your first dungeon experience in a game should not take planning and skill mastery.  It should be easy the very first time and make you want to see the harder dungeons later.

 

It's a matter of opinion.  I just don't want to watch videos on how to do a non level capped dungeon in an MMO I'm new to.  Especially on the very first dungeon you unlock.  Based on a lot of what I've read, even ANET realizes they need to bring the fun into their dungeons.

  Meriik

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/11
Posts: 49

11/04/12 11:32:26 PM#15
The dungeons in GW2 just simply cater to a different demographic, those who like to work at things and build coordination and  skillsets that arent required through the other facets of the game, its a dungeon crawl not a walk in the park lol.  I do agree that AC is a bit on the tough side for the very first dungeon though. 
  Isawa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

11/04/12 11:33:18 PM#16

For my first runs, I did the Manor before Ascalonian Catacombs, and AC was a nice surprise. We didn't have a single team wipe in Caudecus's Manor, but in AC it was messy from start to finish. In CM, everyone but me had ran it before, and in AC everyone was new. With that said, we defnitely figured out how to handle the mobs better and ended up getting smarter and better with each encounter. At this point I started to Trait my character for open world and dungeon roles.

All of my dungeon experiences have been better than my first go at AC :)

  slicknslim88

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 400

11/04/12 11:38:06 PM#17

I see tons of people whining about how difficult AC is, because it's the first dungeon that people run into in the game, and it's a crusher.  Even the story mode can be very difficult for a team of players who are new to the game, which is likely when doing AC Story.  

But people have proved that when you learn the mechanics and have an organized team, the runs can be fast and easy.  This pretty much proves that the dungeons are balanced in the difficulty.  You learn the game and envioronment, you succeed, you go in blind, you fail or succeed while dying a lot.

  adam_nox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2069

11/04/12 11:40:55 PM#18
people on gw2 forums bash wow so much I find it weird, because both games implement these non-fun dungeons that are a matter of mechanics memorization and copying tactics.  It's horrible.  It's not a challenge, and you aren't particularly skilled for doing it.
  Betakodo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 339

11/04/12 11:51:12 PM#19

Would you mind linking those videos? And are these story mode videos also? Are they wayyyy overgeared for the dungeon they're going into + level 80 instead of the level the dungeon opens up at?

I whole heartedly agree that you don't feel skilled for doing the dungeon. Take for instance, story mode Citadel of flame. At least I think it's the one, where there's the boss that pretty much 1 shots you from spinning across the stage. Yeah, you can roll and avoid it, but then oh look! His swords also one shot you.

Pretty much large instances of mobs that 1 shot you, bland monsters that just have high HP and you stand there shooting at them and times where it's just plain old time to die, rez then run back and hope someone's there keeping the boss' hp from regening.

Oh yeah, and every boss is crowd control resistant X number of hits.

  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4765

11/05/12 12:08:10 AM#20
Originally posted by cybertrucker

Well tonight was an experience. Tonight I ventured forth into Ascalonian Catacombs for the first time. My character is a level 33 Elementalist (love the class). We had a level 30 warrior, a level 67 rogue, and 2 level 80 rangers.. All scaled down of coarse.

First let me say I have really been enjoying GW2 overall, however I have to ask.. Are all the dungeon runs going to be like this? I read on the forums and on these forums before about Rez Zerging. I was like well there has to be a way, so I stayed positive. While the Dungeon was amazing with its atmosphere, the mechanics of combat against the mobs inside were just terrible and in no way fun. We spent 2 and a half hours in that dungeon and probably over an hour running back from rezzing.

I enjoy challenging content. However having a chance to say wow that was close and actually making it out alive without dieing is nice too. The mechanics in GW2 in no way offer that. We beat the dungeon, granted the lovers posed us some issues for a bit. But if you run back and forth enough you are bound to win.

I have always been a dungeon runner in games I have played and I joked around with my friends that tonight would be a make it or break it night for me. I am really liking the game, but the mechanics IN dungeons...just dont work.

Thoughts and opinions? Also do they ever get better or will it be like this in every dungeon run?

In short, yes, they are mostly like this (though some have mechanics that force you to reset the encounter upon reviving, making res zerging impossible.

However, the whole res zerging tactic is mostly just a factor of poor play. I never run dungeons like that anymore, tbh. When the game was fresh, I put up w/ it a bit more easily, but now that most people know (or should know) the fights, it's a lot less tolerable.

I too have been playing an elementalist lately, and I can definitely say that there have been many times where I thought I was a goner, and then was miraculously saved by either a rally kill, or a skilled teamm8. While I won't say that I don't think some of the dungeons need their mechanics reworked, the entire way GW2 plays is different from most. GW2 requires players to take a step back and think about what they are doing, or what just happened. However, many players dont / won't do this. They would rather beat their heads against a wall, then to think about how to improve their playstyle.

I'd suggest watching some videos of successful dungeon runs. There's a whole layer of strategy there that it sounds like you're missing. If you've never changed your skills within a dungeon, chances are you're not fully grasping your class, or what it can potentially do within each dungeon. AC is a great example, as elementalists are often key to beating paths 1 & 3 of explorable mode (since ice bows destroy burrows VERY fast). However, in other fights it's generally better to bring a stun breaker, or arcane shield, or glyph of storms for the AoE blind.

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