Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by kivech

Originally posted by moguy2

Originally posted by Chrisbox
No alternate weapon slots is fine, they made it so that you know what you have to use and dont need anything extra.  For example hunters only use Bows no melee now...Thats not a bad thing at all Im fine without having to worry about my stat stick. 

You are so right. Except for the fact that now you have 1 to 2 less things to worry about. And for classes that use those 1-2 less things THEY dont have to re work their positioning or their abilities associated with them.  Wands - bows - guns- throwing stuff. Dont worry- you just use the ability and bam it works. The 8 year old hunter can still shoot you now with his lil bow and not get rolled cause he has no idea how to melee / evade. But then again - the way it was was an " extra " thing you had to adapt to. An extra thing you had to use your brain for.

Yep, couldn't agree more. My 6 year old daughter loves playing the game. And she's actually quite good at it. No wonder, since you have no need to understand anything but:

- follow arrow in radar

- click anything with question mark or exclamation mark and accept or finish (no need to read the text)

- fight anything in the list on the right hand side of the screen until number before slash equals the one after.

Works perfectly!

I can't be bothered with it anymore. It's been a long time since I enjoyed games that are catered to pre-teens.

Vanilly WoW already did not have a very high challenge level, but now it's beyond rediculous. What's next? WoW for pre-schoolers?

 

She's probably better than you, and also a better liar.

are you very sure that she is she ?

Originally posted by Erow

Well I tried out the sample edition of World of Warcraft lately.  I am so glad I did that instead of re-subbing my old account.  I don't even recognize the game any more.

No talent trees?  No alternate weapons slots?  WTF?  No reason to see trainers except to respec?

This game just keeps getting more and more watered down with every expansion.

What a shame.

Goodby World of Warcraft, hello World of Weaksauce.

There's a lot I could say about the whole post, but I'll stick to this.....

Did you find going to your trainer every few levels a particularly skill-based, challenging encounter during the game? 

Going to the trainer was nothing more than a complete 100% time sink that did nothing for the challenge of the game nor did it present you with any challenge. Just time. This is not a sound argument for them 'watering it down'. But I've heard it before, and I'll here it again.

Originally posted by lotaparty

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by kivech

Originally posted by moguy2

 

Yep, couldn't agree more. My 6 year old daughter loves playing the game. And she's actually quite good at it. No wonder, since you have no need to understand anything but:

- follow arrow in radar

- click anything with question mark or exclamation mark and accept or finish (no need to read the text)

- fight anything in the list on the right hand side of the screen until number before slash equals the one after.

Works perfectly!

I can't be bothered with it anymore. It's been a long time since I enjoyed games that are catered to pre-teens.

Vanilly WoW already did not have a very high challenge level, but now it's beyond rediculous. What's next? WoW for pre-schoolers?

 

She's probably better than you, and also a better liar.

are you very sure that she is she ?

Generally, that would be the logical guess.

But I'm curious about this argument. If it caters to pre-teens and 6 year olds, how does their average player base always come out to '28'?

And before you decide to actually insult the adults; remember for every idiot adult you find, I can find two Phd's who play.

10 million people. And you guys think they are trying to appeal to 'just kids'. 

I find this a child-like argument.

Originally posted by Zorgo

There's a lot I could say about the whole post, but I'll stick to this.....

Did you find going to your trainer every few levels a particularly skill-based, challenging encounter during the game? 

Going to the trainer was nothing more than a complete 100% time sink that did nothing for the challenge of the game nor did it present you with any challenge. Just time. This is not a sound argument for them 'watering it down'. But I've heard it before, and I'll here it again.

Seems like you dont have anything to say.

Those skills cost money,also there were skills that you could not get even from trainers,also pets had skills that you had to learn from monster and then teach to your pets,but  you dont know that since you never were there playing,its just time sink,money is time sink,fighting is time sink,traverilng is time sink ,to you ofcourse.

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by Zorgo

There's a lot I could say about the whole post, but I'll stick to this.....

Did you find going to your trainer every few levels a particularly skill-based, challenging encounter during the game? 

Going to the trainer was nothing more than a complete 100% time sink that did nothing for the challenge of the game nor did it present you with any challenge. Just time. This is not a sound argument for them 'watering it down'. But I've heard it before, and I'll here it again.

Seems like you dont have anything to say.

Those skills cost money,also there were skills that you could not get even from trainers,also pets had skills that you had to learn from monster and then teach to your pets,but  you dont know that since you never were there playing,its just time sink,money is time sink,fighting is time sink,traverilng is time sink ,to you ofcourse.

 

If you had problems obtaining the money for your skills on anything but your very first toon in Vanilla, I'd be more than surprised. In fact, I might point out that the challenge you faced saving up that money, was a challenge to you and you alone. 

Did I have to save money to go to the trainer in vanilla? Yes. Once. 

And what exactly do the pet skills have to do with the trainer? The pet changes are a separate issue from the trainers. 

I did not say that WoW had not been watered down. 

I did say that trainers had become a time sink which presented no challenge to the game. This is factually true for arguably 6 years out of the eight WoW has existed. And I would argue, along with others, that trainers had not posed a real challenge ever.

I didn't parse your whole statement. I agree that WoW is easier than it used to be. But I disagree that 'trainers changes' is good supporting evidence of this. But it is nice that when I disagreed with one small aspect of your argument, you decided to insinuate I didn't play WoW and discount me entirely.

I'm sorry. But for me, trainers were a pavlovian time sink, and those complaining about its removal are complaining about a habit they had developed in the game which served very very little purpose.

But more and more I get tired of this argument.

Since its inception, WoW has been the game on easy mode. You all are fooling yourselves to think that at one time WoW was touted as a 'challenging' game. Was it more challenging in the beginning? Yes. But at release, compared to EQ or AC or SWG, the number one complaint was, 'this is just a watered down mmo on easy mode'.

Let me repeat that: 

The number one complaint about WoW since day 1 was,

'it is watered down on easy mode'.

So when I hear these arguments about 'they've watered it down'  from former vanilla players,  I feel like they are saying, 'we used to be the brightest kid in the special ed room'. 

I guess, however, you did answer my question:

Did you find going to your trainer every few levels a particularly skill-based, challenging encounter during the game?

And your answer, based on your insinuations, I'm assuming is:

Yes, going to the trainer every few levels was a particularly skill-based challenge. Games too easy now. I don't have to travel to a trainer every few levels. And although for 99% of the games history it hasn't been this way, I remember once having to save some money for spells. And I found that engrossing and challenging, and one of the major aspects of WoW's appeal as a difficult, skill-based game for hardcore players only. And if you don't agree with me, you obviously weren't there.

Originally posted by Gormogon

At OP: if you originally played WoW because of it's *cough* "rigorous" talent system, ability to shoot a bow on a warrior or wand with a caster, and to speak with trainers to acquire abilities, and now "can't recognize it" because it removed those things, then let's face it, you absolutely diid not "get" the game to begin with.

 

Or maybe you had already made up your mind that the game was no longer worth playing, and to "prove" this to yourself you downloaded a trial, played it briefly and came up with the most immediate differences you noticed for why it was not longer worth playing.

    This nails it pretty much for the OP

In reguards to the talent trees being changed, it was more than needed, after 8 years it was retarded how bloated they were, now with the new system you just pick one of the three old  skills you would of gotten from the old threes and dont need to deal with all the +1 to crit talents and other things that are just space fillers. 

If anything this new system allows you to really have a more unique build, you can take a skill that was only for prot tho you can be dps, and the other way around, right now im leveling a warrior and i have a bunch of the dps skills that i normally wouldnt have had and its making things much easier on me.

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by Zorgo

There's a lot I could say about the whole post, but I'll stick to this.....

Did you find going to your trainer every few levels a particularly skill-based, challenging encounter during the game? 

Going to the trainer was nothing more than a complete 100% time sink that did nothing for the challenge of the game nor did it present you with any challenge. Just time. This is not a sound argument for them 'watering it down'. But I've heard it before, and I'll here it again.

Seems like you dont have anything to say.

Those skills cost money,also there were skills that you could not get even from trainers,also pets had skills that you had to learn from monster and then teach to your pets,but  you dont know that since you never were there playing,its just time sink,money is time sink,fighting is time sink,traverilng is time sink ,to you ofcourse.

 

If you had problems obtaining the money for your skills on anything but your very first toon in Vanilla, I'd be more than surprised. In fact, I might point out that the challenge you faced saving up that money, was a challenge to you and you alone. 

Did I have to save money to go to the trainer in vanilla? Yes. Once. 

And what exactly do the pet skills have to do with the trainer? The pet changes are a separate issue from the trainers. 

I did not say that WoW had not been watered down. 

I did say that trainers had become a time sink which presented no challenge to the game. This is factually true for arguably 6 years out of the eight WoW has existed. And I would argue, along with others, that trainers had not posed a real challenge ever.

I didn't parse your whole statement. I agree that WoW is easier than it used to be. But I disagree that 'trainers changes' is good supporting evidence of this. But it is nice that when I disagreed with one small aspect of your argument, you decided to insinuate I didn't play WoW and discount me entirely.

I'm sorry. But for me, trainers were a pavlovian time sink, and those complaining about its removal are complaining about a habit they had developed in the game which served very very little purpose.

But more and more I get tired of this argument.

Since its inception, WoW has been the game on easy mode. You all are fooling yourselves to think that at one time WoW was touted as a 'challenging' game. Was it more challenging in the beginning? Yes. But at release, compared to EQ or AC or SWG, the number one complaint was, 'this is just a watered down mmo on easy mode'.

Let me repeat that: 

The number one complaint about WoW since day 1 was,

'it is watered down on easy mode'.

So when I hear these arguments about 'they've watered it down'  from former vanilla players,  I feel like they are saying, 'we used to be the brightest kid in the special ed room'. 

 

 

Well how to say this,somewhere there in the internet is a story how some hunter soloes was it BRD? i cant remember,but he does something amazing by soloing it and getting that bite 6 or 7 skill for his pet.

now compare that adventure to press mouse button once and you got it system.

theres a huge difference,there is no stories how i pressed mouse button and look what i got,well actually there is but i find those quite boring,like look my build ? isnt it amazing? how did you made it? well ,left mouse click.