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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] The Elder Scrolls Online: 21 Things You Should Know About ESO

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93 posts found
  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

11/02/12 11:35:45 AM#21

Actually looks/sounds quite good from reading all that.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

The idea of TESO as a full loot open PvP sandbox is quite simply a terrible idea.

Unless of course you want the game to get 1+ million box purchases and then very, very quickly drop to less than 100k active players and about 50% asking for a refund.

If you want your niche PvP sandbox, play Darkfall, Mortal Online, etc. but stay away from ESO.

ES has always been about story, exploration, character progression, visceral combat, dungeon diving.

The Cyrodiil PvP is a nice bonus / afterthought and I for one am 100% happy about that.

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  OgreRaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/11
Posts: 381

11/02/12 11:37:06 AM#22

It’s PVP may be more “sandbox”. With a massive section of the game map (the entirety of Cyrodiil) being devoted to PVP with capture-able keeps, destructible walls, and towers, siege weapons, and so forth… the Alliance vs. Alliance system is more “sandbox”.  Players can even become Emperor, though perks for ruling are yet to be revealed.

 

I really hope they get the PvP system right. This will be the #1 determining factor for whether I play TESO.

 

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1143

11/02/12 11:37:37 AM#23

Wow, I expected this to be another boring wow clone but its not from looking at these, I just hope the quest lines are better than they were in skyrim, because i'll be honest, all the quest lines in skyrim including dawnguard were total shit compared to the older games quests. Main quest in skyrim might have 1 line of spoken dialog per step and thats it, unlike the older games where each quest actually has a fairly decent story behind it, which is one of the few things skyrim lacked, not to mention the province of skyrim was boring as watching dog shit ferment on the sidewalk to explore since everything looked the exact same. I am so sick of seeing white and grey in skyrim that I just got bored of exploring, every nordic ruin is the exact same, every cave uses the exact same textures.

 

I also hope stuff like spellmaking will be in the game, cuz lets be honest, base mage in TES games have been pretty shittastic compared to some of the spells players could make in morrowind and oblivion, the loss of the spellcraft system in skyrim really hurt the game hard.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1143

11/02/12 11:39:15 AM#24
Originally posted by Mueslinator

 @Sovrath:

E, Add UI mods that make the abysmal UI (since Oblivion) actually bearable.

Plus: The beauty of those mods is: Everyone can decide for him-/herself if they want a certain mod. And for their gaming experience, that is good.

Take a look at Diablo 3, and how it isn't moddable. I think that for certain game series (TES foremost among them) moddability is a big part of its appeal. I know that I only could stand Oblivion after I had applied at least ten mods. Most doing things like heighten immersion (better weather and flora), others blunted the infamous Useless Levels (and bandits in full Daedric armour asking for 100 Gold). But honestly? Bethesda has -in part- mods to thank that TES is as famous as it is today.

 

Actually I would say the mods make the game more than anything betesda does, only reason I can stand skyrim is due to mods like skyrim redone, that make the game less of a piece of shit like vanallia is. These game devs gotta stop dumbing down games for the stupid console users, because its ruining gaming as a whole.

 

Now I am worried about the whole story driven part, SWTOR tried it and failed miserably, The secret world tried it and also fell flat on its face, with the way skyrims story is I have very little faith that the devs of TESO can make a story thats actually intersting, cuz the whole main plot of skyrim was just stupidity, not to mention the guilds blew and were way to short, and most of the other quests are just 1 line of dialog then go fetch this for me.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

11/02/12 11:48:02 AM#25
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Sounds like a better version of SWTOR.

The PvP sounds lame. I don't care how big the zone or area is; when people enter it,  they will be expecting PvP. This kills the element of surprise. It's just stupid.

When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before. Instead, we get these cheap "add-on" ideas...   it all started with WoW.

^ nail on the head

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

11/02/12 11:49:33 AM#26
Originally posted by Siveria

Actually I would say the mods make the game more than anything betesda does, only reason I can stand skyrim is due to mods like skyrim redone, that make the game less of a piece of shit like vanallia is. These game devs gotta stop dumbing down games for the stupid console users, because its ruining gaming as a whole.

Now I am worried about the whole story driven part, SWTOR tried it and failed miserably, The secret world tried it and also fell flat on its face, with the way skyrims story is I have very little faith that the devs of TESO can make a story thats actually intersting, cuz the whole main plot of skyrim was just stupidity, not to mention the guilds blew and were way to short, and most of the other quests are just 1 line of dialog then go fetch this for me.

This is why we can't have nice things... so much negativity, no wonder these forums are so toxic and the expectations are so high - and are never met.

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

11/02/12 11:51:02 AM#27
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Sounds like a better version of SWTOR.

The PvP sounds lame. I don't care how big the zone or area is; when people enter it,  they will be expecting PvP. This kills the element of surprise. It's just stupid.

When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before. Instead, we get these cheap "add-on" ideas...   it all started with WoW.

^ nail on the head

So play games with "better" PvP - MO and DF and EvE are --> that way.

Ever ask yourself why devs aren't creating new AAA games with your style of PvP?

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

11/02/12 11:55:03 AM#28

 

This is why we can't have nice things... so much negativity, no wonder these forums are so toxic and the expectations are so high - and are never met.

Expectations are high because it's going on 2013 and we're playing the same games from 2000 reskinned over and over. It's a complete lack of imagination going on behind the scenes with these developing houses, or rather lack of balls to try what I and many others strongly believe will not only work but take over the market. EQ:N is on the right path going sandbox but I'm pretty sure they don't REALLY get it. The technology is there. The vision is not.

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

11/02/12 11:58:20 AM#29
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen

This is why we can't have nice things... so much negativity, no wonder these forums are so toxic and the expectations are so high - and are never met.

Expectations are high because it's going on 2013 and we're playing the same games from 2000 reskinned over and over. It's a complete lack of imagination going on behind the scenes with these developing houses, or rather lack of balls to try what I and many others strongly believe will not only work but take over the market. EQ:N is on the right path going sandbox but I'm pretty sure they don't REALLY get it. The technology is there. The vision is not.

But going back to PvP systems and ideas that were proved not to work BEFORE 2000 is the answer?

Um no.

There is even LESS innovation in the sandbox sub-genre.

I agree that the genre right now does NOT look like I thought it would when I started in UO 13 or so years ago, but that last thing I want is to go further backwards to the EQ1 / UO pre-Trammel era.

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  bakabröd

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/05
Posts: 135

11/02/12 11:59:30 AM#30
wow lots of burnouts here.
  Tamanous

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1629

11/02/12 12:02:19 PM#31
Originally posted by mmoDAD

When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before.

There are have been many games with open world pvp. Many mmos and many purely dedicated to pvp. UO and Asheron's Call were some of the very first. They have been thin on the western developer side perhaps but there are a crap load from asia. There are several AAA or near AAA mmos coming out likely within 2 years with open world pvp. The good news about those are that they are fully fleshed out pve games too which makes things far more interesting than just massive battlegrounds pretending to be mmos.

 

My biggest complaint about the game is the divided leveling paths (if indeed they are entirely separate). The point to an open world is to have massive game space for alternative leveling paths. This game ensures that 2/3s of the leveling areas can never be played unless playing alts. Of course the obvious issue for pvp is that you are now deligated to nothing more than large battlegrounds set up for pvp which has typically failed in most games. I hated WAR pvp lakes, Daoc of only slightly tolerated. AV in Wow never worked and only got worse. GW2 is more or less a joke on all fronts. TSW's large map requires massive rework. Swtor's large map was a complete failure. Etc, etc ...

You stay sassy!

  jiveturkey12

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/04
Posts: 1284

11/02/12 12:02:29 PM#32

Ok seriously, im getting so sick of people blindly supporting this game. Yes, your allowed to be intrested in any game you like, im not saying that you cant like ESO. 

But for the love of Talos at least TRY and understand where Elder Scrolls fans are coming from with their distaste for the game.

Look at what us "ES "Purists" (I love how even MAMORPIG has branded us in a poor light now) get from Elder Scrolls Online:

 

No Theives guild or Dark Brotherhood - Both staples of the Franchise for a Generartion

No Ability to interact with races of opposing factions - Probably THE worst tragedy of ESO

No Housing - Post launch or not theres so many ways they could have done this, IE Joining one of the great Houses like telvanni or Redoran

No Freeform Classes - Im sorry no matter how hard they are trying to spin "Classes but more freeform" its simply not Elder Scrolls. In Elder Scrolls you gain skills, those skill points translate to levels, and then you choose how you advance based on what you use and how much you use it. A class system, especially one with a trinity can and will never provide this because its foundationally impossible. 

 

And Of course, Phasing.

To me if your an MMO fan and you cant understand or chooses not to understand the linear implications that come with a game "PHasing" its content, then you need to stop praising ESO and get on WoW and LOTRO immedietely. 

Seriously, no matter how many times a marketing guru for a company tells you that they can "Find a way around" phasing, to make it so groups can play both content together, its a complete lie. They said the EXACT same thing with WoW, and guess what? Your FORCED to play through the content to get to your friends content. 

 

People Always complain about how MMO's used to FORCE Group play and how people hated interacting with each other. Well whats so different about phasing then? It forces you to play the game in a linear singleplayer fashion. And if thats the game you guys want, again go play WoW, go play LOTRO, you already have two different IP's, Great IP's mind you that do this. Why does Elder Scrolls have to be on the list with them? 

 
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/02/12 12:07:47 PM#33
Lol how was the pvp system "proved not to work before 2000"

Daoc is in the top mmos for pvp its either that or eve as the best, can't decide between them.

that said I dont think TESO will capture the daoc magic as.
1 instancing
2 no mordred ffa ruleset
3 no darkness falls
4 it has instanced raids, so ava isn't THE endgame
5 it has tupperware pvp for people to go and hide in if ava ain't working out for them
6 newer generation of players that will take the path of least resistance, joining the biggest side, keep trading etc.. less and less people go the small side for kudos these days.
  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

11/02/12 12:09:20 PM#34

"Why does Elder Scrolls have to be on the list with them? "

 

Because that is the type of game they want to make?

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/02/12 12:10:08 PM#35
The pvp area Is the size of oblivion by the way. Comparisons to swtor are ridiculous. Gw2 is a better comparison.
  Ryowulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 667

11/02/12 12:11:05 PM#36

SWtoR didn't fail because it had a personal story. They just went overboard with it and made it the prime (and some say only worthwhile) feature in their game.

TSW didn't fail because of a personal story either, if anything it has helped TSW, but they simple ran out of time and money to put out a complete game. At least I want to believe they would have done a better job with combat if they could have. Also I am not sure TSW has failed. Its a nitch came, if that's what Funcom was aimming for then it might float along just fine for a while (it just wasn't a huge/popular success).

  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

11/02/12 12:11:17 PM#37
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Sounds like a better version of SWTOR.

The PvP sounds lame. I don't care how big the zone or area is; when people enter it,  they will be expecting PvP. This kills the element of surprise. It's just stupid.

When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before. Instead, we get these cheap "add-on" ideas...   it all started with WoW.

^ nail on the head

So play games with "better" PvP - MO and DF and EvE are --> that way.

Ever ask yourself why devs aren't creating new AAA games with your style of PvP?

I will go back to DF:UW and give it another go, see if they can make it happen this time. I have sub'd to EVE for years now, and you know I actually do enjoy some themeparks..for 30 days like everyone else. And the reason "my" style game has never been done by a AAA developer is because there's not enough people who remember what it was like to game before the boom. How many people do you know who played UO, the original Neverwinter nights for AOL, or hell the muds from whence it all started. What about pen and paper? The elements that made these games great are gone or watered down for the masses. The simple fact is not everyones a hero. A hero should be someone who steps up and makes it happen. The option to be a villian is never available. You could never be famous or infamous ever after WoW. I mean I get it, they all sold out and went after the money, tried to figure out what the best way to retain subs with the kiddies and keep them interested, hence things like pandaria and pokemon, but honestly you can create a themepark and have 10 million hits for a month or a virtual world and hold a million hardcore gamers for a decade. Do the math.

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

11/02/12 12:15:37 PM#38
Originally posted by jiveturkey12

Ok seriously, im getting so sick of people blindly supporting this game. Yes, your allowed to be intrested in any game you like, im not saying that you cant like ESO. 

But for the love of Talos at least TRY and understand where Elder Scrolls fans are coming from with their distaste for the game.

Look at what us "ES "Purists" (I love how even MAMORPIG has branded us in a poor light now) get from Elder Scrolls Online:

 

No Theives guild or Dark Brotherhood - Both staples of the Franchise for a Generartion

No Ability to interact with races of opposing factions - Probably THE worst tragedy of ESO

No Housing - Post launch or not theres so many ways they could have done this, IE Joining one of the great Houses like telvanni or Redoran

No Freeform Classes - Im sorry no matter how hard they are trying to spin "Classes but more freeform" its simply not Elder Scrolls. In Elder Scrolls you gain skills, those skill points translate to levels, and then you choose how you advance based on what you use and how much you use it. A class system, especially one with a trinity can and will never provide this because its foundationally impossible. 

 

And Of course, Phasing.

To me if your an MMO fan and you cant understand or chooses not to understand the linear implications that come with a game "PHasing" its content, then you need to stop praising ESO and get on WoW and LOTRO immedietely. 

Seriously, no matter how many times a marketing guru for a company tells you that they can "Find a way around" phasing, to make it so groups can play both content together, its a complete lie. They said the EXACT same thing with WoW, and guess what? Your FORCED to play through the content to get to your friends content. 

 

People Always complain about how MMO's used to FORCE Group play and how people hated interacting with each other. Well whats so different about phasing then? It forces you to play the game in a linear singleplayer fashion. And if thats the game you guys want, again go play WoW, go play LOTRO, you already have two different IP's, Great IP's mind you that do this. Why does Elder Scrolls have to be on the list with them? 

 

Thanks for speaking for me but you are wrong

 

I've been a TES fan since arena and I'm loving what they have shown us so far, so thanks for nominating yourself as my spokesperson but no thanks as most the tes fans ive spoken to understand that there are limitation on what you can do when expecting everyone to play together in the same space, and as long as they get the TES feel when it comes to combat and exploration right we are good

  Tamanous

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1629

11/02/12 12:19:31 PM#39
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Sounds like a better version of SWTOR.

The PvP sounds lame. I don't care how big the zone or area is; when people enter it,  they will be expecting PvP. This kills the element of surprise. It's just stupid.

When will a game actually take the time and create some real World PvP. A deep and proper World PvP has never been done before. Instead, we get these cheap "add-on" ideas...   it all started with WoW.

^ nail on the head

So play games with "better" PvP - MO and DF and EvE are --> that way.

Ever ask yourself why devs aren't creating new AAA games with your style of PvP?

I will go back to DF:UW and give it another go, see if they can make it happen this time. I have sub'd to EVE for years now, and you know I actually do enjoy some themeparks..for 30 days like everyone else. And the reason "my" style game has never been done by a AAA developer is because there's not enough people who remember what it was like to game before the boom. How many people do you know who played UO, the original Neverwinter nights for AOL, or hell the muds from whence it all started. What about pen and paper? The elements that made these games great are gone or watered down for the masses. The simple fact is not everyones a hero. A hero should be someone who steps up and makes it happen. The option to be a villian is never available. You could never be famous or infamous ever after WoW. I mean I get it, they all sold out and went after the money, tried to figure out what the best way to retain subs with the kiddies and keep them interested, hence things like pandaria and pokemon, but honestly you can create a themepark and have 10 million hits for a month or a virtual world and hold a million hardcore gamers for a decade. Do the math.

 

As mentioned there are several quality sandbox or sandbox hybrid mmos coming out likely within 1-2 years ... 3 at the outset (not sure how long EQNext will take). Most of these will have pvp entirely within the main world and pretty much no limitations to map accessibility for gameplay. The fact the most of these games are very far along in development says that the concept was either never forgotten or the problems and popular revolt against themeparks clones has been known for a few years now. This is the first time in many years where I have been optimistic for the future of mmos.

 

I am not sure what people want from Teso anyway. Yes Skyrim was more or less an open world sandbox but it was also a single player game. The entire history of the series was a single player game. The developers have to somehow preserve elements of the original games but still make it multiplayer. Seeing how story was a massive part of the TES series, a pure sandox game is more or less out of the picture anyway. It sounds like Teso may actually be fun but what sort of fun game it is is still left to be seen.

 

You stay sassy!

  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

11/02/12 12:21:20 PM#40

^ Me too. I have a feeling it'll take a couple to get it right but at least it's coming to fruition finally.

 

Let me just go on the record for saying that I am hopeful TESO keeps me enthralled from it's launch until a real game drops. I love Elder Scrolls as much as the next guy. Daggerfall might be my all time favorite rpg, and while I don't agree with the direction they took it, it looks good and sounds fun enough.

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

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