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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] The Secret World: The Price of Progress

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53 posts found
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16999

11/01/12 12:48:47 PM#21

Ok, I'll be the crotchety old man here and say that it's still not a lot of money. Unless someone is dirt poor and is struggling to put food on the table (and no shame in many of us have been there) the amount of money people pay for beer, coffee, a data plan, extra snacks, heck movies, quickly end up dwarfing 15 dollars per month or 15 Euros.

Even when I was just out of school with a horrible paying job, I could have afforded that. I might have to make a few hard decisions such as not buy coffee every day but I could have done it. and that's taking into account that dollar amount in the early 90's.

 

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/01/12 12:53:42 PM#22
Ya, I thought it was going to look more into sub vs other models. Its more of a sub here vs sub there. Which is a very unfortunate scenario but I would like one article to give some reasons as to why it is that way.


  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

11/01/12 1:01:36 PM#23
Originally posted by Mueslinator

All in all, TSW feels very 'premium' priced to me, without really having arguments why I should pay that premium price

 

TSW is super premium, because there are reliable monthly updates, mini expansions with new missions, new instances, raid, new features, new weapons, ongoing story and a new Issue Poster every month. It´s like a new episode of "Lost" every month as DLC. Social events with moderated live radio (Gridstream), Halloween event, Christmas event was hinted too. 

Worth 15 bucks a month? Hell yeah, this game is a great show and worth every penny.

The shop is purely vanity items, no boosts, only dimension transfer, barbershop coupons, no damn grab boxes/gambling anywhere.

Got the lifetime grandmaster pack, so this is what REAL "buy to play" looks like!

 
 
 
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/01/12 1:11:01 PM#24
It's not that people in the UK pay more than Americans for tsw.

It's that people in the UK pay less for other mmos,for historical reasons.

When wow came out the pound was a very very strong currency and the dollar was weak. So at that time £8.99 was actually slightly more expensive than the usa sub rate. Over the last few years a direct conversion would be about £10.50
  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1657

11/01/12 1:41:57 PM#25

If people want to play TSW is there not game cards they can buy and use? The drawback to freemium us the near complete destruction of community in mmos. I have played most western mmos that later converted to f2p options and each time the community took a severe hit.

 

The fact of the matter is that people who won't pay for a membership will not also pay anything once playing the game ... yet they impact the game and community as much as paying players. Accessibility to content and how the CS works dramatically changes and each game that offers freemium options impacts monthly subscribers. This is flat out not fair no matter how you look at it.

 

The only reason mmos offer this option is to increase returns. Obviously this is important to a company but it forever changes the landscape of the game. The player base undergoes a huge change. I've seen entire guilds disolve in Lotro once they went freemium. More free players filled the ranks but they are either impractical or impossible to have in mature guilds ... they simply cannot access the content paying players play. A community goes from mature guilds full of long time players to casual only guilds with a handful of full access players who tend to have pick up the slack of so many non-paying players that they are now the extreme minority paying the majority of money.

 

I have no idea if TSW world ever go f2p but last I heard they decided not to for exactly the reasons above ... they want to preserver the unique community they have within the unique game they offer. Now I would have nothing against total free access via a trial to Kingsmouth (minus exploitive options Funcom may limit). The best thing for the game would be to find a way to increase subscribers. The best thing for any mmo would be the same instead of making them into rotating doors for new and old players.

 

To be perfectly frank, it amazes me that most players here are from capitalistic countries yet so many scream for free access and expect other players to pay their way. It is both embarrassing and sad.

You stay sassy!

  Ryowulf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 668

11/01/12 1:44:26 PM#26
Originally posted by Yakamomoto
Originally posted by Mueslinator

All in all, TSW feels very 'premium' priced to me, without really having arguments why I should pay that premium price

 

TSW is super premium, because there are reliable monthly updates, mini expansions with new missions, new instances, raid, new features, new weapons, ongoing story and a new Issue Poster every month. It´s like a new episode of "Lost" every month as DLC. Social events with moderated live radio (Gridstream), Halloween event, Christmas event was hinted too. 

Worth 15 bucks a month? Hell yeah, this game is a great show and worth every penny.

The shop is purely vanity items, no boosts, only dimension transfer, barbershop coupons, no damn grab boxes/gambling anywhere.

Got the lifetime grandmaster pack, so this is what REAL "buy to play" looks like!

 
 
 

And yet some ftp games offer all or at least some of that  as well. Not to meantion a new feature like a stage is only going to interest some people. A new weapon?  More like a new skill. Right?

Anyway can someone name a recent sub based game that was high quality across the board, a lot of people liked and that held their interest for more than a few months?

That's the problem. Not that people won't pay to play, but that many recent games have had crippling problems that chased people away.

People don't pay subs anymore because there is nothing they want to pay for.

  Mueslinator

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/08/11
Posts: 78

11/01/12 1:54:24 PM#27
Originally posted by Yakamomoto
Originally posted by Mueslinator

All in all, TSW feels very 'premium' priced to me, without really having arguments why I should pay that premium price

 

TSW is super premium, because there are reliable monthly update issues with new missions, new features, new weapons, ongoing story and a new Issue Poster every month. It´s like a new episode of "Lost" every month as DLC. Social events with moderated live radio (Gridstream), Halloween event, Christmas event was hinted too. 

Worth 15 bucks a month? Hell yeah, this game is a great show and worth every penny.

The shop is purely vanity items, no boosts, only dimension transfer, barbershop coupons, no damn grab boxes/gambling anywhere.

Got the lifetime grandmaster pack, so this is what REAL "buy to play" looks like!

It's nice that you have the feeling you get enough bang for your buck. I no longer do, so I cancelled my sub. Plus, since "clothes" are what I play for, placing them into the cash shop very much feels grating to me. I know that it's not "power" per se, but then, I don't play so my toon gets more powerful.

 
  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2627

11/01/12 2:39:34 PM#28

I don't study this, because, I don't have to really deal with it.....But isn't the big problem the tax the EU or countries have on electronics or/and games?  So a company should make less money per sub, to accomodate high taxes?  So someone should really be paying less (before taxes), than someone else....and this is fair?  Don't like the tax, work on getting it reduced or eliminated...I am sure their are groups against it you could join and rally for the cause....Why should Funcom take the hit, because your goverment wants to tax you more?

 

Also, if 15 going to 17 or 18 is a deal breaker, then I have a feeling 15 was a deal breaker too for most in that situation.

 

I prefer sub games, and if I really like something, I would have zero problems paying much more than 18 for it...Heck people pay $70 for a phone they sit around and play games on, but complain about paying $15 for a MMO that many would spend as much time on a month.

 

MMOs have been going down hill for the most part imo, and f2p is on the rise....Wonder if their is a real corrilation to f2p and mmos becoming more shallow and throw away.

 

  madmikethegm

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/06
Posts: 41

11/01/12 2:45:47 PM#29

With a single player game it's different.  A flat box fee, you're done, enjoy the game.  MMOs require upkeep and development.  That takes money, and lots of it.

Servers don't function on hopes and dreams.  Technicians don't maintain those servers just for the giggles.  Developers don't put in long hours at the office just for gold stars on their report cards.

Where else would you rather an MMO company get their money from? Bake sales? Car washes? How about a nickel and dime cash shop where you have to buy bullets for your pistol at $1 a box of 100?  I bet after a day of grinding xp you'd be back to complaining again.

Cut back on the McDonalds, Starbucks, and further streamline your budget to find that extra $15 a month.  Ask your mommy for more allowance. 

How many $60 games do you buy and then burn through the content in a weekend? 

It's not rocket science, people.

 

  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

11/01/12 2:48:05 PM#30

Part of the argument here is "why pay more for a game that really offers nothing to justify the higher price?"

In the UK an MMO sub will cost me £8.99, for TSW it will cost me £11.49.

I can afford the extra £2.50, but I am not going to pay it. I bought the box game, played for a month and enjoyed it, but with a subscription higher than any other game I won't pay the extra, especially since this game also has a cash shop.

TSW offers nothing to justify it costing more than any other MMO, so as a matter of principle I will not pay the extra.

Most people can easily afford the extra but if we all just accept what is being shoved down our throats then it will become the norm.

If this game had been priced at £8.99 a month, I probably would have subscribed and I wouldn't have ended up back in WoW to get my MMO fix each week.

  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

11/01/12 2:50:09 PM#31
Originally posted by madmikethegm

With a single player game it's different.  A flat box fee, you're done, enjoy the game.  MMOs require upkeep and development.  That takes money, and lots of it.

Servers don't function on hopes and dreams.  Technicians don't maintain those servers just for the giggles.  Developers don't put in long hours at the office just for gold stars on their report cards.

Where else would you rather an MMO company get their money from? Bake sales? Car washes? How about a nickel and dime cash shop where you have to buy bullets for your pistol at $1 a box of 100?  I bet after a day of grinding xp you'd be back to complaining again.

Cut back on the McDonalds, Starbucks, and further streamline your budget to find that extra $15 a month.  Ask your mommy for more allowance. 

How many $60 games do you buy and then burn through the content in a weekend? 

It's not rocket science, people.

 

See I buy plenty £40 games in a year and maybe get 20 hours out of them at best, but when this year FIFA13 releases and is £45 instead of £40, I will not buy it. CoD is also £5 more expensive than any other game, for no other reason than Activision know that people are buying the game regardless so why not charge an extra 5er?

  eddieg50

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 1475

11/01/12 2:50:36 PM#32
Originally posted by Sovrath

Ok, I'll be the crotchety old man here and say that it's still not a lot of money. Unless someone is dirt poor and is struggling to put food on the table (and no shame in many of us have been there) the amount of money people pay for beer, coffee, a data plan, extra snacks, heck movies, quickly end up dwarfing 15 dollars per month or 15 Euros.

Even when I was just out of school with a horrible paying job, I could have afforded that. I might have to make a few hard decisions such as not buy coffee every day but I could have done it. and that's taking into account that dollar amount in the early 90's.

 

   You are one crotchety MF:)  I hate to say this but I prob spend 40 a month on DD, but I will still complain  about the Sub, I like F2P, now that could be because as a player who averages 10-15 hrs a week playing mmo's I am not hardcore and I dont end up spending that much money on a game. As you can imagine the hardcore players are the most vocal complainers and it is hard to blame them. On the other hand most mmo's have either F2p (the casuals prefered method) or the Sub model (the hardcores prefered method). so to me it gives you the best of both worlds. I do like Fallen Earths pricing and Aions also. therfore I would love it if TSW went to a Sub-F2P model similar to Fallen Earth

  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

11/01/12 2:57:04 PM#33

I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period.

Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug*

FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money

 

btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market..

[mod edit]

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2627

11/01/12 3:05:46 PM#34
Originally posted by eddieg50
Originally posted by Sovrath

Ok, I'll be the crotchety old man here and say that it's still not a lot of money. Unless someone is dirt poor and is struggling to put food on the table (and no shame in many of us have been there) the amount of money people pay for beer, coffee, a data plan, extra snacks, heck movies, quickly end up dwarfing 15 dollars per month or 15 Euros.

Even when I was just out of school with a horrible paying job, I could have afforded that. I might have to make a few hard decisions such as not buy coffee every day but I could have done it. and that's taking into account that dollar amount in the early 90's.

 

   You are one crotchety MF:)  I hate to say this but I prob spend 40 a month on DD, but I will still complain  about the Sub, I like F2P, now that could be because as a player who averages 10-15 hrs a week playing mmo's I am not hardcore and I dont end up spending that much money on a game. As you can imagine the hardcore players are the most vocal complainers and it is hard to blame them. On the other hand most mmo's have either F2p (the casuals prefered method) or the Sub model (the hardcores prefered method). so to me it gives you the best of both worlds. I do like Fallen Earths pricing and Aions also

 I can see the complaining more from the ADD, I play 10-15 different games, but I would think the hardcore players would realize that if they are putting in 20-40 hours a week into a MMO, what is that really costing them per hour a month?  Below is based on $15/mo sub (upped charge of $18)

10 hr/wk - $0.375 ($0.45)/ hr for a month.

15 hr/wk - $0.250 ($0.30)/ hr for a month.

20 hr/wk - $0.1875 ($0.225)/ hr for a month.

30 hr/wk - $0.125 ($0.15)/ hr for a month.

40 hr/wk - $0.09375 ($0.1125)/ hr for a month.

 

It really doesn't break down to much, and if you want to feel like you are paying $15, instead of $18, play 5 more hours a week, and you will be paying less per hour than the person playing 5 hours less than you!

 

1.5 - 2 hour movie with food/drink -  $15   - $7.50 to $10 an hour....or 1 movie=1 month of MMO.

 

 

 

 

 

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/01/12 3:15:26 PM#35
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period.

Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug*

FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money

 

btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market..

[mod edit]

It ain't B2P. You probably should'nt be making bold claims like "the best, period" unless you want your opinion to be discarded immediately.

"Adults have money" is an ignorant comment.


  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

11/01/12 5:39:58 PM#36
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period.

Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug*

FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money

 

btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market..

[mod edit]

It ain't B2P. You probably should'nt be making bold claims like "the best, period" unless you want your opinion to be discarded immediately.

"Adults have money" is an ignorant comment.

Mate, the grandmaster pack is in FACT "B2P", and it's the better B2P because:

1. Monthly content and feature updates

2. No cash grab gambling boxes

3. No treasure chest key shady business

 

yes, period

 

Every freakin' lifetime sub is "B2P", some are cheaper and have less value, some are more expensive and you get more from it.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

11/01/12 5:43:54 PM#37
Originally posted by Yakamomoto
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period.

Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug*

FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money

 

btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market..

[mod edit]

It ain't B2P. You probably should'nt be making bold claims like "the best, period" unless you want your opinion to be discarded immediately.

"Adults have money" is an ignorant comment.

Mate, the grandmaster pack is in FACT "B2P", and it's the better B2P because:

1. Monthly content and feature updates

2. No cash grab gambling boxes

3. No treasure chest key shady business

 

yes, period

 

Every freakin' lifetime sub is "B2P", some are cheaper and have less value, some are more expensive and you get more from it.

If there is no means of getting the items from a games cash shop without spending money i think it's a bad design imho espeically for a game with sub fee.. saying that if someone really enjoys an MMO the lifetime is probabaly worth it as long as you are sure it's a game you'll always come back to.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Elsabolts

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 2625

Life Liberty and the Pursuit of those that would threaten It

11/01/12 5:51:13 PM#38

Humm, I guess if you want to call Progress Lay-Off's and taking advantage of there gamers, then so be it Funcom. Looks to me some other folks disagree. Lets see how well your next hyped up game comes out.

  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

11/01/12 5:54:54 PM#39
Originally posted by Aerowyn

If there is no means of getting the items from a games cash shop without spending money i think it's a bad design imho espeically for a game with sub fee.. saying that if someone really enjoys an MMO the lifetime is probabaly worth it as long as you are sure it's a game you'll always come back to.

 

there are tons and tons of clothing items in game, there are tons of clothing rewards for missions, there are tons of Deck clothing rewards. Subscribers even got points for the shop with their sub. Where is the problem?

I only have problems with grab bags in other games, not with dimension transfer coupons and a few stat-less clothing items and vanity pets.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

11/01/12 5:57:22 PM#40
Originally posted by Yakamomoto
Originally posted by Aerowyn

If there is no means of getting the items from a games cash shop without spending money i think it's a bad design imho espeically for a game with sub fee.. saying that if someone really enjoys an MMO the lifetime is probabaly worth it as long as you are sure it's a game you'll always come back to.

 

there are tons and tons of clothing items in game, there are tons of clothing rewards for missions, there are tons of Deck clothing rewards. Subscribers even got points for the shop with their sub. Where is the problem?

I only have problems with grab bags in other games, not with dimension transfer coupons and a few stat-less clothing items and vanity pets.

i never got points when sub'ed to TSW for the shop is this something new?

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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