Originally posted by Digna

Originally posted by Enigmatus
Strangely enough, getting this off my chest makes me feel better. Least I don't have to hold back as much when I finally decide to get my review for this game up.

I am confused. This thread has enabled you to get up enough courage to write a review , presumably less than positive? Why didn't you just write the review and add your OP 'explanation' to it?

Uh, no it didn't actually. I haven't even started on the review yet XP.

Originally posted by kaiser3282

Personally, I never cared about gear grind / massive amounts of progression in an MMO.

It's more like an aspect of RPG's. You are taking up the role of another being. Unless that being is flat (which would make absolutely no sense whatsoever), it will develop. Therefore, progression systems are essential to RPG's, and it is something GW2 is lacking sorely, consequentially affecting its overall longevity.

Originally posted by kaiser3282

Originally posted by stealthbr
What if I told you a game's fun factor is directly tied to many things.

But those things depend on the person. Personally, I never cared about gear grind / massive amounts of progression in an MMO, in fact it usually takes away from my version of "fun". I find the interaction with others, especially competing vs others in PvP, fun and it is my main reason for playing any form of online games. Gear progression just hinders your being able to compete on an equal level, which means it takes longer for people like me to start having fun. For people like this, GW2 works out great.

For people who consider extensive gear grind and months / years of progression fun.... wtf are you even playing GW2 for? Its been known for a couple years that it wasnt going to be part of the game. Just makes no sense to see people complaining about lack of those things when anyone with like 2nd grade reading skills could have figured out it wasnt going to be there and it shouldnt be expected.

I like having goals to work towards.  I prefer a sandbox, with all sorts of lateral goals to choose from.. but still, having goals, that are about more than just cosmetics and achievements.  Course this varies from person to person, but IMHO, its not really a good genre to try emphasising raw gameplay fun, without rewards or goals.  Goals have been a huge part of RPGs, for as long as they've existed..

GW2 is a bit of a hybrid, but I don't think its close enough to its action side to succeed longterm, without giving players more to strive for.  As much as I love the combat, it just doesn't carry the game that entirely.

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by kaiser3282

Originally posted by stealthbr
What if I told you a game's fun factor is directly tied to many things.

But those things depend on the person. Personally, I never cared about gear grind / massive amounts of progression in an MMO, in fact it usually takes away from my version of "fun". I find the interaction with others, especially competing vs others in PvP, fun and it is my main reason for playing any form of online games. Gear progression just hinders your being able to compete on an equal level, which means it takes longer for people like me to start having fun. For people like this, GW2 works out great.

For people who consider extensive gear grind and months / years of progression fun.... wtf are you even playing GW2 for? Its been known for a couple years that it wasnt going to be part of the game. Just makes no sense to see people complaining about lack of those things when anyone with like 2nd grade reading skills could have figured out it wasnt going to be there and it shouldnt be expected.

 

I like having goals to work towards.  I prefer a sandbox, with all sorts of lateral goals to choose from.. but still, having goals, that are about more than just cosmetics and achievements.  Course this varies from person to person, but IMHO, its not really a good genre to try emphasising raw gameplay fun, without rewards or goals.  Goals have been a huge part of RPGs, for as long as they've existed..

GW2 is a bit of a hybrid, but I don't think its close enough to its action side to succeed longterm, without giving players more to strive for.  As much as I love the combat, it just doesn't carry the game that entirely.

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by Vhaln 

 

I like having goals to work towards.  I prefer a sandbox, with all sorts of lateral goals to choose from.. but still, having goals, that are about more than just cosmetics and achievements.  Course this varies from person to person, but IMHO, its not really a good genre to try emphasising raw gameplay fun, without rewards or goals.  Goals have been a huge part of RPGs, for as long as they've existed..

GW2 is a bit of a hybrid, but I don't think its close enough to its action side to succeed longterm, without giving players more to strive for.  As much as I love the combat, it just doesn't carry the game that entirely.

 

GW2 isnt an hybrid it's a themepark through and through, ArcheAge is an hybrid EQ is a hybrid and EQNext will be a hybrid.

Sorry for being unclear.  I didn't mean hybrid sandbox / themepark.  I meant hybrid action / RPG.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by drakaena

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by drakaena
Fans of this game keep pointing out that there are carrots to chase for those that want them. True, enough. I don't disagree. Problem is, those carrots are inferrior to other themepark games. GW2 dungeons don't even come close to comparing to raids in WoW or Rift. GW2 sPvP is an esport without any incentive whatsoever. WTF? WvW is a giant circle jerk of castle swapping for fast rep. So PvP is lacking incentive and easily exploited and instance PvE is underwhelming at best. What am I missing here? It's not that there isn't carrots to gnaw, it's that they taste rotten.

lol umm have you even been playing WvW ? this isn't fusang.. also what is the purpose of you getting that top raid gear in wow or Rift or that top PVP gear?

Have you? Because I share a vent with guilds that coordinate point swapping. Doh. Who said anything about purpose, THEY ARENT AS GOOD. It's an inferrior design. Are you going to sit here and tell me with a straight face you think GW2 instance PvE is done as well as the other two Themepark games I mentioned? No.

i hate trinity dungeons so i can say yes.. also again why are those carrots so much better? what do you get to do with all that best gear you spent all that time raiding for or PVPing for in those other games.. its inferior to you maybe but not an inferior design overall imho bot at all... maybe people actually like it a lot better.. i know it's impossible to think others differ in opinions but it's true

It's quite simple.

WoW's appeal endgame comes from progressive loot accquired in tiered encounters.  Their are two elements to why this is interesting for people: 

1. Your character in increases in power with new gear, thus giving you a sense of progression

2. The amount of teamwork need to down an encounter calls for good communication and coordination.  Thus when successful players find a sense of achievement and exhiliration for being part of a successful team.

Now that's the ideal situation, not everyone has that experience and it can be very difficult poltically in a raiding gear. Some people are very much turned off with the raiding scene and having been involved in it I can see why.

However I would hazard to say that this system appeals much more to average players then GW2's, as really there's no incintive power wise or social wise to put the time in for the content.  Simply put people like getting more powerful stuff for their characters and seeing new bosses and murdering them makes them new friends.  GW2 fails at this because there really isn't anything to work towards, you can buy the best gear and trying this stuff for looks just won't have the same pull.

Originally posted by Omnifish

 

It's quite simple.

WoW's appeal endgame comes from progressive loot accquired in tiered encounters.  Their are two elements to why this is interesting for people: 

1. Your character in increases in power with new gear, thus giving you a sense of progression

2. The amount of teamwork need to down an encounter calls for good communication and coordination.  Thus when successful players find a sense of achievement and exhiliration for being part of a successful team.

Now that's the ideal situation, not everyone has that experience and it can be very difficult poltically in a raiding gear. Some people are very much turned off with the raiding scene and having been involved in it I can see why.

However I would hazard to say that this system appeals much more to average players then GW2's, as really there's no incintive power wise or social wise to put the time in for the content.  Simply put people like getting more powerful stuff for their characters and seeing new bosses and murdering them makes them new friends.  GW2 fails at this because there really isn't anything to work towards, you can buy the best gear and trying this stuff for looks just won't have the same pull.

you got max level with best stat gear in GW1 well before the end of the first campaign and lots still play that game 7 years later... you do not need that constant power progression to enjoy a mmorpg(although GW1 wasn't technically a MMO).. sure many do but many do not.