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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Reviews & Impressions  » BadSpock's Hitting Bottom: A Re-Review

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323 posts found
  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3202

Poacher killer.

10/27/12 12:57:01 PM#241
Originally posted by halflife25

Excuse me but  are you  referring to me or spock with this reply? i think my post was self explanatory.  And you completely missed the point if you think if my post was trying to imply that he can not dislike the game he once used to like.

Ofcourse he can, don't be silly. But there is difference between enjoying something you like and openly flaming and mocking people who had similar feelings after first couple of weeks. 

How would OP feel he was flamed simply for expressing his opinion? that is exactly what others were trying to do and did not deserve  the flames and insults.

This is why i never go overboard with my love for any MMO and i never ever flame people for simply expressing their dislike for it. However, if they try to twist facts i do try to correct them. because i know that later down the line if i change my mind and get bored and decide to make a topic about it, people will just call me a hypocrite. I don't want a egg on my face.

You might be too logical for this thread let alone these forums.

After observing the kind of behaviour you describe (in red) time and time again (it's often the same members that are guilty), I've just accepted that that's the way they are; they do not seem to learn from past experience for whatever reason. It's like ramming your head into a wall every day and then asking why do I always have this headache. 

Odd as it is, I doubt much will change throughout the next round of big releases. It can get rather tedious though.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  xAPOCx

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

10/27/12 1:06:27 PM#242
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by muffins89

Rift

-quests

-rifts

-artifacts

-story quest from 1-50

-raid

-zone events

-dungeons (reg and hard mode)

-monthy world events

-crafting

-battlegrounds

-owpvp

-puzzles

-achievements

-incentives to explore

 

 

monthly world events, raid and owpvp are only things GW2 doesn't offer but everything else GW2 offers and has a lot more of..   doesn't really matter a game could have a million times more content than another game if you don't like the content the game with more has doesn't mean it has less just less you find fun and interesting.. that's the issue I see a lot for example GW2 has a TON of branching and differn't stories for each race but since some people don't like the story or VO they discount this whole part of the game like it doesn't exist.

In the end it doesnt matter. Arguing over what theampark has the best featuer is like comparing what theampark has the best corndog. They both have corndogs but ones cornier then the other.

 

Quests - corndog

Crafting- soda

Achiements- Prizes

Raids/Dungeons - Rides

etc.

etc.

etc.

 

Now all that matters is what theampark you want to visit today.

 

 

  User Deleted
10/27/12 1:07:34 PM#243
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Dim_sum

You're not burnt out old bean, it's just not a very good game. 

Looks pretty, plays well, essentially soulless.

I want a carrot too, don't be ashamed. Loot is awesome. Getting cool shit is fun.

Cosmetics are not fun.

 

Dynamic events have been lauded as some kind of great evolution in gameplay.

They are not. Because their inevitable cycling is contradictory.

 

Rejection of trinity heralded as a revolution in player dynamics.

It is not, because homogeneity is not preferential to diversification.

 

It does some stuff well obviously. And they sold it well enough. But it's all a bit tedious.  Also personal stories suck balls.

i agree totally. Its not a great game at all. Many people were  overhyped about it like Warhammer and Darkfall was. The OP was a major fanboy defender on this forum. the critics tried to warn those like you. but cant really blame a fan for being blind to reality of issues. thats what fans do.

 

I  can only imagine what all those banned people from Guildwars2guru who were banned for saying anything bad about the game, have to say now.

reality is sinking in hard.

 

I wasnt disapointed in GW2, because I wasnt hyped, I could see past the  Developer's marketing tactics and clever use of words to hype up people. So i saw it for what it really was. nothing but an alt MMO. I knew  people would get bored of Events, because its the same concept from Rift, which also had people excited about them at first, but  got  boring after awhile.

what gets at me is that people, even the same people, will get hyped up like this for the next big hyped up MMO that comes to public eye and be  disapointed once again once the clever marketing tactics fade off.

And yet these same people will continue to bad mouth the critics and call them Trolls, and try to get them banned from the forum, for trying to set reality back into the public's eyes.

Might be bad for you but the game is amazing for alot.  Just because it doesnt "float your boat" doesnt give you any right to say the game is bad.  The game is still continuing to grow, it still remains in the top 10 in PC sales and its 2 months old.  Dont let your precious narrative fool you or it makes you look bad.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

10/27/12 1:08:32 PM#244
Originally posted by xAPOCx
 

In the end it doesnt matter. Arguing over what theampark has the best featuer is like comparing what theampark has the best corndog. They both have corndogs but ones cornier then the other.

 

Quests - corndog

Crafting- soda

Achiements- Prizes

Raids/Dungeons - Rides

etc.

etc.

etc.

 

Now all that matters is what theampark you want to visit today.

 

 

this is true:)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  xAPOCx

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

10/27/12 1:15:17 PM#245
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Dim_sum

You're not burnt out old bean, it's just not a very good game. 

Looks pretty, plays well, essentially soulless.

I want a carrot too, don't be ashamed. Loot is awesome. Getting cool shit is fun.

Cosmetics are not fun.

 

Dynamic events have been lauded as some kind of great evolution in gameplay.

They are not. Because their inevitable cycling is contradictory.

 

Rejection of trinity heralded as a revolution in player dynamics.

It is not, because homogeneity is not preferential to diversification.

 

It does some stuff well obviously. And they sold it well enough. But it's all a bit tedious.  Also personal stories suck balls.

i agree totally. Its not a great game at all. Many people were  overhyped about it like Warhammer and Darkfall was. The OP was a major fanboy defender on this forum. the critics tried to warn those like you. but cant really blame a fan for being blind to reality of issues. thats what fans do.

 

I  can only imagine what all those banned people from Guildwars2guru who were banned for saying anything bad about the game, have to say now.

reality is sinking in hard.

 

I wasnt disapointed in GW2, because I wasnt hyped, I could see past the  Developer's marketing tactics and clever use of words to hype up people. So i saw it for what it really was. nothing but an alt MMO. I knew  people would get bored of Events, because its the same concept from Rift, which also had people excited about them at first, but  got  boring after awhile.

what gets at me is that people, even the same people, will get hyped up like this for the next big hyped up MMO that comes to public eye and be  disapointed once again once the clever marketing tactics fade off.

And yet these same people will continue to bad mouth the critics and call them Trolls, and try to get them banned from the forum, for trying to set reality back into the public's eyes.

Might be bad for you but the game is amazing for alot.  Just because it doesnt "float your boat" doesnt give you any right to say the game is bad.  The game is still continuing to grow, it still remains in the top 10 in PC sales and its 2 months old.  Dont let your precious narrative fool you or it makes you look bad.

Most certinly does give him the right. Its his opinion.

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

10/27/12 1:21:11 PM#246
Originally posted by BadSpock

First off - want to say that I still think GW2 is a great game for what it is - the quality is high, the fun is worth the price of admission, and I still stand by my original review/op-ed that GW2 is an amazing game.

But I'm just not sure it's for me.

Longevity was always my biggest concern with GW2 - and I've hit that slump.

I know I'll be back, probably often as the business model is perfect for me - the "modern" MMO gamer who hops from game to game and can't stay interested in one thing for too long.

But i've just hit a wall.

-My main is level 77 or 78, and I've been seriously let down.

-Finally did a big dragon fight, Taquatl the Sunless - complete and total failure. Extremely disappointing. Right now it’s pretty much attack dragon -> get feared out of place -> run back and continue spamming.

-Finally got into Orr, 70-75 zone anyways. Extremely disappointing. What I thought/hoped would be a PvE battleground type experience (PvE WvW) is actually in fact just Zerg Merry-Go-Round.

Hop on the train, ride along the zerg from point A to B to C back to A again.

-Halloween event has thus far been extremely disappointing. Candy corn? Who cares, sell it all in TP. Costumes? Don't care. Costume brawl? Not even fun - randomly kicking around LA by Mystic Forge.

Couldn't figure out how to make the damn scanner work / figure it out - not going to cheat and google it. Pointless.

-WvW I have very little interest in. So many complaints of zergs, bugs/broken, lack of any real reason to care, and long wait times.

-sPvP I have very little interest in. Rewards / prestige don't match input. I get a lot of fun out of progression in PvP like in CoD or BF3 or Halo games, haven't found any reason to care about winning/losing in sPvP yet.

-Lost pretty much all interest in crafting, lost all interest in zone completion and grinding Hearts.

-I've run a handful of story mode and explorable mode dungeons. Where are the rewards? Where is the loot? Couple of shitty blues? 10-15 minute corpse hopping bosses? There is no skill/strategy there. And what's it all for, some cool looking cosmetic rewards (and the 10% stat bonus of Exotics?)

-Personal story is a bit of a miss. These "epic" events in the Vigil line are anything but. Apparently a "massive undead siege of Orrians" is 10-15 mobs. The scale and sense of epicness is just pathetic. Limitation of the MMO genre I suppose.

I still get some fun out of toying around with other classes (like right now a Mesmer) but I know if I play for too long I'm going to hit that wall and get bored again in like an hour.

Where's the "dynamic" in the dynamic events?

Where's the point of sPvP / WvW? I get a much better sense of achievement playing Halo or back in UO Factions where taking control of a city/town actually felt like it mattered.

Where is the feeling of accomplishment for doing a great job in a run? It's made me realize I really do miss the Trinity - I hate to say it, but I do. I've always been a Tank/Healer - and I've always strived to be a damn good one too. That was my main feeling of accomplishment beyond just the gear rewards and stat progression - knowing I was good at my job.

Now don't get me wrong - GW2 does some things absolutely great.

1. The combat is fun and exciting, for a while, but the limited skills per Weapon contibutes to getting bored fast. Cooldowns are too long, spend too much time auto-attacking and waiting for cooldowns or being forced to switch to your second set.

I've also grown frustrated for how weak I feel. The pace of combat was so much better at earlier levels. I had this problem MAJOR bad with TOR - fights just take too long for no reason. It doesn't make me feel like a "hero" when I can't cut through swaths of baddies with ease.

Sure, I like having elite/champion/veteran mobs that take a bit of effort to kill. That's fun. But I don't like feeling like I'm hitting with a wet noodle against normal mobs. TOR made this mistake BIG time, and the only MMO where I never felt this way - is WoW.

And yes, I've tried about 6 different trait combinations, weapon combos, etc. On my Guardian at level 77/78 using level 75 Rare weapons, even with the supposed "OP" Greatsword and then Sword/Torch combo. Yes I'm fully Runed 6/6 set w/ Weapon runes, all gear is 75+ blue/green/rare.

The utility skills feel weak. Great for situational help, but I have yet to press ANY button in any class at any level in GW2 where I felt like "Wow, I love this ability it is so freaking cool and awesome."

2. Quality of life features like "Send to Collections" is great. Trading Post from anywhere is superb. No competition for harvesting nodes is splendid. Overflow servers is freak'n brilliant. Dye system and "dye anything anywhere" is amazing. Not quite as great as it'd be with an appearance tab, but the Dye system is awesome.

3. No kill stealing, everyone gets loot, never a bad idea to help another player, cross-profession combos with anyone outside of grouping etc. is awesome and a huge, huge step forward in PvE.

 

I guess, as sad as it is at the end of the day... I need the carrot. The gameplay is just not sufficiently fun enough to keep me interested without the carrot to chase.

I need the Trinity, I need to have a role I am good at.

I think I'm about done with the MMORPG genre to be honest. I have a feeling I am never going to find a single game I am going to play for months and years on end without breaks.

Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm just like the rest. I will probably end up like the rest bouncing from game to game, new release to new release like an addict chasing the next fix.

The dream of "the game to stick with" is gone for me.

I've hit MMORPG rock bottom.

This is BadSpock, signing off...

 No spock. There is another. 

  User Deleted
10/27/12 1:24:15 PM#247
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by Zylaxx

I respect your opinions Spock but I dont agree with most of them.  I am of the opinion that there is a certain segment of people out there that are just "burnt" out of MMO's and I would say you elicit strong indicators of such.  Contrary to what the Trolls & Haters have said to the contrary.

 I can assure you none of my guildies are burnt out on MMOs, there's just nothing left to do in GW2 after a short period of time for any non-casual players, and coming from TERA, obviously none of us are casual.

 

Were not burnt out of MMOs, were burnt out on content, because there's not much MMO content, themeparks continue to provide less and less MMO content and more FPS/Minigame solo non-social carrot-free casualized progressionless carebear nonsense.

i'd really love for you to show me a single themepark at release that offered as much content as GW2 offers right now.. i have played them all and GW2 has more unique things to do at launch than any themepark I can think of..

Exactly 100% correct.

 

 

The thing is the majority of these negative comments are about the lack of item progression.  Which of course GW2 doesnt have, but that was known 2 years ago.

 

 

This doesnt deny the fact that GW2 caters to a much larger segment of the gaming community then one would imagine and it is branded as proof as the game is still continuing to grow.  The real only negativity comes from people who think purplez and organized raids is the only form of endgame worth mentioning.

Not for nothing but i would like to know how you can state this as a fact. You would have to have evidence to support player retention and you just cant do that with a b2p game.

 

Others have sited sources to the contrary that the population is in decline. Box sales dont tell the whole story. And cant use the " The lowbie zones are packed!" argument. thats proves nothing.

 

Would have to take into consideration alts and the low lvl zones on other servers ( that others say are ghost towns). Now you could site the addition of new severs as groth but thats just an observation, not factual evidence.

 

Rift was in decline 2 months after release but added new severs to handle the load of que times (launch severs were inadequate). Once those new severs were added it thined out severs and as time passed you saw the amount of mid and low pop severs grew fast.

 

You would have to point to something concrete to prove your fact that the game is growing.

 

NOTE: Im not saying the game is in a decline. would just like to see evidence to show fact.

If I cant give box sales as proof then you start from a position that automatically dismisses your wanting proof.  Since box sales, Queue times, and server load are the only things to show it is growing but every one of those get shot down as a untrue source.  Totally unfair and agenda driven.

 

In fact I could care less if anyone hates the game and posts "their" feelings. but when people like spock who has a great rep here starts spouting off biased and personal preferences as fact then I have a problem.  Doubly more so that it brings every single hater and troll out to try and prove how they were correct all along.

 

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games-PC-Hardware/zgbs/videogames/229575

 

 

There, 3 forms of proof, whether you like it or not.  Every single server is high, Kaineng which has long been one of the only few med populated servers turned high as of a few days ago.  GW2 is still #6 on Amazon and the only MMO still in the top 10.  And I think its safe to assume the majority of sales do not come from Amazon, and it is very easy to extrapolate out to other venues.  Also my guild of 87 people have yet to lose one single player.  I could go on and on but your narrative would still be the game is dieing and is in decline, or the game is horrible.

 

WHAT MORE PROOF YOU NEED.

 

  DAOWAce

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/03
Posts: 109

I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter.

10/27/12 1:30:32 PM#248

The extremely rough start of GW2 ruined the game for me.  Mismatched server opening times cost me the alias I've been using in games for the last 5 years and had been preparing months for (I had it in all the betas).  GW1 didn't allow this because it was a first/last name system, was stoked to hear we could use single word names.

I pre-purchased for $60 day 1 of it being available. A month or two later, the ends up going on many sales on many sites for $45 while the digital deluxe edition fell to the standard edition price.  NCSoft refused to credit me $15 or give me a free deluxe upgrade; didn't want my account disabled due to a full refund. (They never explained the account disabling details with clarity either despite my 10+ support messages requesting a better explanation.)

As for the game, by the time I got to 40 I just felt like things weren't enjoyable anymore.  I wanted to play a Norn, but the VOs were awful for most of the characters (and the Norn men looked extremely obese; even the slimmest model had unncessary body mass, especially when wearing armor).  Wanted to play a Sylvari but had no name for her due to the server opening issue, and the main name I've used for my female character in games was blocked in GW2 for some reason.

 

Basically, the loss of things and wanting of things coupled with the horrible server issuess (severe lag, disconnections, TP broken for weeks) caused me to stop enjoying the game and eventually quit.  I have no motivation to even do the halloween events.

 

The game was rushed out the door for profits at the expense of enjoyment.  It needed a few more months of work prior to release, not fixing after release.  I and many of the people waiting for the game expected it in November at the earliest.

I am very disappointed with ArenaNet, or NCSoft; whoever made the decision to release.

 

FWIW, I've played Guild Wars on and off for 7 years; I can still find enjoyment when I logon today, yet GW2 is already essentially dead to me.  Maybe I will return with the next expansion, but usually when I stop playing MMORPGs, I don't start them up again.  Good thing there's no monthly fee, right?  *sigh*

DAOWAce Xfire Miniprofile
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5184

Opportunist

10/27/12 2:08:12 PM#249
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Kind of makes the terms hater and hype idiotic doesn't it?  Everybody has opinions and they tend to change.  Just because you like a game when you first get it doesn't mean you HAVE to love the game after you play it.  To BadSpock's point he isn't looking for a dignified way out.  Thats something you made up in your head.   He was simply stating (very well) why he feels GW2 is no LONGER for him.  He enjoyed what he played but its not providing anything to keep him.

Why is that so hard to understand or accept?

Stop with the labels.  We are all gamers.  We have different opinions.  Some more logical than others.  For every game that comes out you will have people who will absolutely love it and those who will absolutely loathe it.  Therefore everything will always be hyped and hated and interchanged between the two.

I simply enjoy hearing other people's opinions on the games I play.  Hate it or love it.  Its all the same to me.

good post and very much agreed.. only thing I have hard time wraping my head around is people who don't like a game don't play it, don't want to discuss it but just come to bash it at every chance they get.. any thread with a tiny bit of negativity they pounce on it .. it happens with every single MMO.. there are splenty of just want to discuss issues they dislike but when someone claims this game blows or is the worst game MMO they ever played then continue to visit these forums all the time.. i dunno

I do agree with Dark's statement on this. Something can be good or even great. But it doesn't mean you keep experienceing it. I've read my favorite book (Ender's Game) twice I will always think back on that book as one of the best storeies ever. But I don't need to read it again.

Aerowyn, people feel mislead. You can pull the "do you homework" card all day. I can think of several threads by Badspock in the past where he polled, questioned, posted up a storm to get info on GW2. Maybe it wasn't entirely objective, but he did his homework. But for some, thye felt mislead and are upset about it. It's called backlash. The bigger the hype train, the harder the backlash. You just  have to accept that. And yes, I do feel GW2 was mismarketed to a much larger demographic than it should have been.

That's not being mislead though.  Being mislead is being told one thing and delivered another.  That didn't happen here.  What happened here is call being foolish and creating unrealistic expectations (they hype train) and then expressing deflation once you come to the realization that the self-invented expecations weren't real.  In this case it's a problem with the OP and those like him.  Remember TOR?

EQN and TESO are on the horizon with the new buzzwords of the moment: "sandbox" and "3 faction rvr".  They will also use clever and amorphous adjectives like "meaningful pvp" to describe the game.  We're even seeing that with Storm Legion despite the fact that Trion has nearly pulled an NGE with class and combat mechanics - SL and RIFT is being hailed as metaphorically huge.  There is a loud portion of our community that are junky gamers looking for a fix.  Unfortunately a lot of the site writing and articles promotes this self-defeating thinking.

edit: You only need to look in this very thread for people with their EQN sigs and vague allusions to the "next great thing".  Until this is nipped. We'll continue to see this cycle repeated ad naseum.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4161

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

10/27/12 2:23:07 PM#250
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Kind of makes the terms hater and hype idiotic doesn't it?  Everybody has opinions and they tend to change.  Just because you like a game when you first get it doesn't mean you HAVE to love the game after you play it.  To BadSpock's point he isn't looking for a dignified way out.  Thats something you made up in your head.   He was simply stating (very well) why he feels GW2 is no LONGER for him.  He enjoyed what he played but its not providing anything to keep him.

Why is that so hard to understand or accept?

Stop with the labels.  We are all gamers.  We have different opinions.  Some more logical than others.  For every game that comes out you will have people who will absolutely love it and those who will absolutely loathe it.  Therefore everything will always be hyped and hated and interchanged between the two.

I simply enjoy hearing other people's opinions on the games I play.  Hate it or love it.  Its all the same to me.

good post and very much agreed.. only thing I have hard time wraping my head around is people who don't like a game don't play it, don't want to discuss it but just come to bash it at every chance they get.. any thread with a tiny bit of negativity they pounce on it .. it happens with every single MMO.. there are splenty of just want to discuss issues they dislike but when someone claims this game blows or is the worst game MMO they ever played then continue to visit these forums all the time.. i dunno

I do agree with Dark's statement on this. Something can be good or even great. But it doesn't mean you keep experienceing it. I've read my favorite book (Ender's Game) twice I will always think back on that book as one of the best storeies ever. But I don't need to read it again.

Aerowyn, people feel mislead. You can pull the "do you homework" card all day. I can think of several threads by Badspock in the past where he polled, questioned, posted up a storm to get info on GW2. Maybe it wasn't entirely objective, but he did his homework. But for some, thye felt mislead and are upset about it. It's called backlash. The bigger the hype train, the harder the backlash. You just  have to accept that. And yes, I do feel GW2 was mismarketed to a much larger demographic than it should have been.

That's not being mislead though.  Being mislead is being told one thing and delivered another.  That didn't happen here.  What happened here is call being foolish and creating unrealistic expectations (they hype train) and then expressing deflation once you come to the realization that the self-invented expecations weren't real.  In this case it's a problem with the OP and those like him.  Remember TOR?

EQN and TESO are on the horizon with the new buzzwords of the moment: "sandbox" and "3 faction rvr".  They will also use clever and amorphous adjectives like "meaningful pvp" to describe the game.  We're even seeing that with Storm Legion despite the fact that Trion has nearly pulled an NGE with class and combat mechanics - SL and RIFT is being hailed as metaphorically huge.  There is a loud portion of our community that are junky gamers looking for a fix.  Unfortunately a lot of the site writing and articles promotes this self-defeating thinking.

edit: You only need to look in this very thread for people with their EQN sigs and vague allusions to the "next great thing".  Until this is nipped. We'll continue to see this cycle repeated ad naseum.

Oh? 

“We’re in it to win it this time,” said O’Brien. “We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO. I think we have something unique here and players are going to see it and understand why dynamic events are a way better content model than people have experienced before in online worlds. Word-of-mouth will get people to understand that we really are doing something new and different. The sky’s the limit once this game is out. Online worlds have a networking effect. People will bring friends to Guild Wars 2. We hope all the people who play the beta weekend will tell their friends about it.”

GW2 went after the WoW market with a game that was not designed to appeal to the WoW player.

Mislead!

 

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  xAPOCx

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

10/27/12 3:07:06 PM#251
Originally posted by Zylaxx

If I cant give box sales as proof then you start from a position that automatically dismisses your wanting proof.  Since box sales, Queue times, and server load are the only things to show it is growing but every one of those get shot down as a untrue source.  Totally unfair and agenda driven.

 

In fact I could care less if anyone hates the game and posts "their" feelings. but when people like spock who has a great rep here starts spouting off biased and personal preferences as fact then I have a problem.  Doubly more so that it brings every single hater and troll out to try and prove how they were correct all along.

 

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games-PC-Hardware/zgbs/videogames/229575

 

 

There, 3 forms of proof, whether you like it or not.  Every single server is high, Kaineng which has long been one of the only few med populated servers turned high as of a few days ago.  GW2 is still #6 on Amazon and the only MMO still in the top 10.  And I think its safe to assume the majority of sales do not come from Amazon, and it is very easy to extrapolate out to other venues.  Also my guild of 87 people have yet to lose one single player.  I could go on and on but your narrative would still be the game is dieing and is in decline, or the game is horrible.

 

WHAT MORE PROOF YOU NEED.

 

If your goin on box sales then WOW is still growing. We all know its not. My point is you made a factual statement without showing facts. Just opinion and observations. How can you guage player retention from box sales?

 

You assume to much and come off very catty. No where did i say that the game was dieing and in decline.

  Digna

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/19/05
Posts: 1997

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

10/27/12 3:30:40 PM#252

Well..there's no definite proof of drop off either. I personally am of the opinion that it is occurring but the argument goes both ways. There is no definite proof.

 

  xAPOCx

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

10/27/12 3:32:53 PM#253
Originally posted by Digna

Well..there's no definite proof of drop off either. I personally am of the opinion that it is occurring but the argument goes both ways. There is no definite proof.

 

i agree with you. Thats why someone stateing facts from nothing made me ask the question how he knew this fact.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5184

Opportunist

10/27/12 3:41:16 PM#254
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Oh? 

“We’re in it to win it this time,” said O’Brien. “We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO. I think we have something unique here and players are going to see it and understand why dynamic events are a way better content model than people have experienced before in online worlds. Word-of-mouth will get people to understand that we really are doing something new and different. The sky’s the limit once this game is out. Online worlds have a networking effect. People will bring friends to Guild Wars 2. We hope all the people who play the beta weekend will tell their friends about it.”

GW2 went after the WoW market with a game that was not designed to appeal to the WoW player.

Mislead!

We were talking about the OP though.  He wasn't mislead at all was he.  He played through beta and watched videos and explained in detail about the game systems.  How can someone so well informed be mislead?

And really, how do you know what every wow player wants.  I have friends in GW2 who've played wow.  I have friends in RIFT, LotRO, and AoC who played wow.  There are lots of different kinds of people who play wow.  wow players can very well be interested in GW2 despite your stereotype.

  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

10/27/12 3:51:32 PM#255
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by Zylaxx

I respect your opinions Spock but I dont agree with most of them.  I am of the opinion that there is a certain segment of people out there that are just "burnt" out of MMO's and I would say you elicit strong indicators of such.  Contrary to what the Trolls & Haters have said to the contrary.

 I can assure you none of my guildies are burnt out on MMOs, there's just nothing left to do in GW2 after a short period of time for any non-casual players, and coming from TERA, obviously none of us are casual.

 

Were not burnt out of MMOs, were burnt out on content, because there's not much MMO content, themeparks continue to provide less and less MMO content and more FPS/Minigame solo non-social carrot-free casualized progressionless carebear nonsense.

i'd really love for you to show me a single themepark at release that offered as much content as GW2 offers right now.. i have played them all and GW2 has more unique things to do at launch than any themepark I can think of..

Exactly 100% correct.

 

 

The thing is the majority of these negative comments are about the lack of item progression.  Which of course GW2 doesnt have, but that was known 2 years ago.

 

 

This doesnt deny the fact that GW2 caters to a much larger segment of the gaming community then one would imagine and it is branded as proof as the game is still continuing to grow.  The real only negativity comes from people who think purplez and organized raids is the only form of endgame worth mentioning.

Not for nothing but i would like to know how you can state this as a fact. You would have to have evidence to support player retention and you just cant do that with a b2p game.

 

Others have sited sources to the contrary that the population is in decline. Box sales dont tell the whole story. And cant use the " The lowbie zones are packed!" argument. thats proves nothing.

 

Would have to take into consideration alts and the low lvl zones on other servers ( that others say are ghost towns). Now you could site the addition of new severs as groth but thats just an observation, not factual evidence.

 

Rift was in decline 2 months after release but added new severs to handle the load of que times (launch severs were inadequate). Once those new severs were added it thined out severs and as time passed you saw the amount of mid and low pop severs grew fast.

 

You would have to point to something concrete to prove your fact that the game is growing.

 

NOTE: Im not saying the game is in a decline. would just like to see evidence to show fact.

If I cant give box sales as proof then you start from a position that automatically dismisses your wanting proof.  Since box sales, Queue times, and server load are the only things to show it is growing but every one of those get shot down as a untrue source.  Totally unfair and agenda driven.

 

In fact I could care less if anyone hates the game and posts "their" feelings. but when people like spock who has a great rep here starts spouting off biased and personal preferences as fact then I have a problem.  Doubly more so that it brings every single hater and troll out to try and prove how they were correct all along.

 

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games-PC-Hardware/zgbs/videogames/229575

 

 

There, 3 forms of proof, whether you like it or not.  Every single server is high, Kaineng which has long been one of the only few med populated servers turned high as of a few days ago.  GW2 is still #6 on Amazon and the only MMO still in the top 10.  And I think its safe to assume the majority of sales do not come from Amazon, and it is very easy to extrapolate out to other venues.  Also my guild of 87 people have yet to lose one single player.  I could go on and on but your narrative would still be the game is dieing and is in decline, or the game is horrible.

 

WHAT MORE PROOF YOU NEED.

 

Your proof is based on assumptions. You have no idea what the criteria is for server load designations. Most games may be purchased digitally now and often from the company directly because of perks so Amazon isn't a good indicator. I can say I belonged to a guild of 200 plus people and less than 25% log on now. Every zone used to put me in an overflow and now it only happens in Lion's Arch. Both Xfire and Raptr show huge declines in their numbers for the game. Though not indicative of the overall population, it does show trends in those specific communities. I personally don't think the game is growing anymore, but it isn't dying ethier. The population is stabilizing. It is really no different than the rest of the recent themeparks. Only WoW and Eve grew in player base after the first initial surge and continued to grow.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4161

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

10/27/12 3:52:05 PM#256
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Oh? 

“We’re in it to win it this time,” said O’Brien. “We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO. I think we have something unique here and players are going to see it and understand why dynamic events are a way better content model than people have experienced before in online worlds. Word-of-mouth will get people to understand that we really are doing something new and different. The sky’s the limit once this game is out. Online worlds have a networking effect. People will bring friends to Guild Wars 2. We hope all the people who play the beta weekend will tell their friends about it.”

GW2 went after the WoW market with a game that was not designed to appeal to the WoW player.

Mislead!

We were talking about the OP though.  He wasn't mislead at all was he.  He played through beta and watched videos and explained in detail about the game systems.  How can someone so well informed be mislead?

And really, how do you know what every wow player wants.  I have friends in GW2 who've played wow.  I have friends in RIFT, LotRO, and AoC who played wow.  There are lots of different kinds of people who play wow.  wow players can very well be interested in GW2 despite your stereotype.

If you say so. You are talking about sub groups, I'm talking about the whole group. I'm sure you can find examples to support your statement. But at the end of the day, GW2 marketing went after a bigger crowd than they knew the game was designed to appeal to.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5184

Opportunist

10/27/12 4:04:17 PM#257
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Oh? 

“We’re in it to win it this time,” said O’Brien. “We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO. I think we have something unique here and players are going to see it and understand why dynamic events are a way better content model than people have experienced before in online worlds. Word-of-mouth will get people to understand that we really are doing something new and different. The sky’s the limit once this game is out. Online worlds have a networking effect. People will bring friends to Guild Wars 2. We hope all the people who play the beta weekend will tell their friends about it.”

GW2 went after the WoW market with a game that was not designed to appeal to the WoW player.

Mislead!

We were talking about the OP though.  He wasn't mislead at all was he.  He played through beta and watched videos and explained in detail about the game systems.  How can someone so well informed be mislead?

And really, how do you know what every wow player wants.  I have friends in GW2 who've played wow.  I have friends in RIFT, LotRO, and AoC who played wow.  There are lots of different kinds of people who play wow.  wow players can very well be interested in GW2 despite your stereotype.

If you say so. You are talking about sub groups, I'm talking about the whole group. I'm sure you can find examples to support your statement. But at the end of the day, GW2 marketing went after a bigger crowd than they knew the game was designed to appeal to.

How can you say that?  It's very presumptuous.  You can rephrase your point like this:  Hey guys, let's not market to these gamers, they probably won't like our game.  That's silly.

Every game company pretty much wants people to play their game.  Anyone in the mmo crowd that does themepark - pvp, pve, and crafting is a fair marketing demographic.  It would be foolish not to do so.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 4742

10/27/12 4:06:56 PM#258
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by Zylaxx

I respect your opinions Spock but I dont agree with most of them.  I am of the opinion that there is a certain segment of people out there that are just "burnt" out of MMO's and I would say you elicit strong indicators of such.  Contrary to what the Trolls & Haters have said to the contrary.

 I can assure you none of my guildies are burnt out on MMOs, there's just nothing left to do in GW2 after a short period of time for any non-casual players, and coming from TERA, obviously none of us are casual.

 

Were not burnt out of MMOs, were burnt out on content, because there's not much MMO content, themeparks continue to provide less and less MMO content and more FPS/Minigame solo non-social carrot-free casualized progressionless carebear nonsense.

i'd really love for you to show me a single themepark at release that offered as much content as GW2 offers right now.. i have played them all and GW2 has more unique things to do at launch than any themepark I can think of..

Exactly 100% correct.

 

 

The thing is the majority of these negative comments are about the lack of item progression.  Which of course GW2 doesnt have, but that was known 2 years ago.

 

 

This doesnt deny the fact that GW2 caters to a much larger segment of the gaming community then one would imagine and it is branded as proof as the game is still continuing to grow.  The real only negativity comes from people who think purplez and organized raids is the only form of endgame worth mentioning.

Not for nothing but i would like to know how you can state this as a fact. You would have to have evidence to support player retention and you just cant do that with a b2p game.

 

Others have sited sources to the contrary that the population is in decline. Box sales dont tell the whole story. And cant use the " The lowbie zones are packed!" argument. thats proves nothing.

 

Would have to take into consideration alts and the low lvl zones on other servers ( that others say are ghost towns). Now you could site the addition of new severs as groth but thats just an observation, not factual evidence.

 

Rift was in decline 2 months after release but added new severs to handle the load of que times (launch severs were inadequate). Once those new severs were added it thined out severs and as time passed you saw the amount of mid and low pop severs grew fast.

 

You would have to point to something concrete to prove your fact that the game is growing.

 

NOTE: Im not saying the game is in a decline. would just like to see evidence to show fact.

If I cant give box sales as proof then you start from a position that automatically dismisses your wanting proof.  Since box sales, Queue times, and server load are the only things to show it is growing but every one of those get shot down as a untrue source.  Totally unfair and agenda driven.

 

In fact I could care less if anyone hates the game and posts "their" feelings. but when people like spock who has a great rep here starts spouting off biased and personal preferences as fact then I have a problem.  Doubly more so that it brings every single hater and troll out to try and prove how they were correct all along.

 

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games-PC-Hardware/zgbs/videogames/229575

 

 

There, 3 forms of proof, whether you like it or not.  Every single server is high, Kaineng which has long been one of the only few med populated servers turned high as of a few days ago.  GW2 is still #6 on Amazon and the only MMO still in the top 10.  And I think its safe to assume the majority of sales do not come from Amazon, and it is very easy to extrapolate out to other venues.  Also my guild of 87 people have yet to lose one single player.  I could go on and on but your narrative would still be the game is dieing and is in decline, or the game is horrible.

 

WHAT MORE PROOF YOU NEED.

 

Your proof is based on assumptions. You have no idea what the criteria is for server load designations. Most games may be purchased digitally now and often from the company directly because of perks so Amazon isn't a good indicator. I can say I belonged to a guild of 200 plus people and less than 25% log on now. Every zone used to put me in an overflow and now it only happens in Lion's Arch. Both Xfire and Raptr show huge declines in their numbers for the game. Though not indicative of the overall population, it does show trends in those specific communities. I personally don't think the game is growing anymore, but it isn't dying ethier. The population is stabilizing. It is really no different than the rest of the recent themeparks. Only WoW and Eve grew in player base after the first initial surge and continued to grow.

GW2 is unusual in that it doesnt matter if the people who bought the game no longer play it, Arenanet have already been paid, of course Arenanet don't get to sell them things from the cash shop, but it does mean that their likely to come back and buy the next expac and probably play the game again for a few weeks, which is probably the best kind of scenario that Arenanet can hope for, its been working out pretty well for WoW too, as lapsed players come back for an expac and probably sub for a couple of months. On the plus side, as far as Arenanet are concerned, the demand for W v W PVP becomes less of a queue wars and players are more likely to be actually playing than waiting to play.  So everybody is happy... sort of..  but yes, less people are playing the game now, and in significant numbers by the look of it, but it doesnt sound like the player base has gone critical even so.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4161

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

10/27/12 4:10:50 PM#259
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Oh? 

“We’re in it to win it this time,” said O’Brien. “We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO. I think we have something unique here and players are going to see it and understand why dynamic events are a way better content model than people have experienced before in online worlds. Word-of-mouth will get people to understand that we really are doing something new and different. The sky’s the limit once this game is out. Online worlds have a networking effect. People will bring friends to Guild Wars 2. We hope all the people who play the beta weekend will tell their friends about it.”

GW2 went after the WoW market with a game that was not designed to appeal to the WoW player.

Mislead!

We were talking about the OP though.  He wasn't mislead at all was he.  He played through beta and watched videos and explained in detail about the game systems.  How can someone so well informed be mislead?

And really, how do you know what every wow player wants.  I have friends in GW2 who've played wow.  I have friends in RIFT, LotRO, and AoC who played wow.  There are lots of different kinds of people who play wow.  wow players can very well be interested in GW2 despite your stereotype.

If you say so. You are talking about sub groups, I'm talking about the whole group. I'm sure you can find examples to support your statement. But at the end of the day, GW2 marketing went after a bigger crowd than they knew the game was designed to appeal to.

How can you say that?  It's very presumptuous.  You can rephrase your point like this:  Hey guys, let's not market to these gamers, they probably won't like our game.  That's silly.

Every game company pretty much wants people to play their game.  Anyone in the mmo crowd that does themepark - pvp, pve, and crafting is a fair marketing demographic.  It would be foolish not to do so.

Is it? You refuse to acknowlege the fact that even every fan of GW2 has said from day one? GW2 isn't for everyone? Who would fit in that group? I'll give you some examples. The people who like to tank, raid, heal, chace the carrot. Progrssion PVPers. Need I go on? Nothing presumtuous. You just don't want to admit it.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

10/27/12 4:13:52 PM#260
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by Zylaxx

I respect your opinions Spock but I dont agree with most of them.  I am of the opinion that there is a certain segment of people out there that are just "burnt" out of MMO's and I would say you elicit strong indicators of such.  Contrary to what the Trolls & Haters have said to the contrary.

 I can assure you none of my guildies are burnt out on MMOs, there's just nothing left to do in GW2 after a short period of time for any non-casual players, and coming from TERA, obviously none of us are casual.

 

Were not burnt out of MMOs, were burnt out on content, because there's not much MMO content, themeparks continue to provide less and less MMO content and more FPS/Minigame solo non-social carrot-free casualized progressionless carebear nonsense.

i'd really love for you to show me a single themepark at release that offered as much content as GW2 offers right now.. i have played them all and GW2 has more unique things to do at launch than any themepark I can think of..

Exactly 100% correct.

 

 

The thing is the majority of these negative comments are about the lack of item progression.  Which of course GW2 doesnt have, but that was known 2 years ago.

 

 

This doesnt deny the fact that GW2 caters to a much larger segment of the gaming community then one would imagine and it is branded as proof as the game is still continuing to grow.  The real only negativity comes from people who think purplez and organized raids is the only form of endgame worth mentioning.

Not for nothing but i would like to know how you can state this as a fact. You would have to have evidence to support player retention and you just cant do that with a b2p game.

 

Others have sited sources to the contrary that the population is in decline. Box sales dont tell the whole story. And cant use the " The lowbie zones are packed!" argument. thats proves nothing.

 

Would have to take into consideration alts and the low lvl zones on other servers ( that others say are ghost towns). Now you could site the addition of new severs as groth but thats just an observation, not factual evidence.

 

Rift was in decline 2 months after release but added new severs to handle the load of que times (launch severs were inadequate). Once those new severs were added it thined out severs and as time passed you saw the amount of mid and low pop severs grew fast.

 

You would have to point to something concrete to prove your fact that the game is growing.

 

NOTE: Im not saying the game is in a decline. would just like to see evidence to show fact.

If I cant give box sales as proof then you start from a position that automatically dismisses your wanting proof.  Since box sales, Queue times, and server load are the only things to show it is growing but every one of those get shot down as a untrue source.  Totally unfair and agenda driven.

 

In fact I could care less if anyone hates the game and posts "their" feelings. but when people like spock who has a great rep here starts spouting off biased and personal preferences as fact then I have a problem.  Doubly more so that it brings every single hater and troll out to try and prove how they were correct all along.

 

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games-PC-Hardware/zgbs/videogames/229575

 

 

There, 3 forms of proof, whether you like it or not.  Every single server is high, Kaineng which has long been one of the only few med populated servers turned high as of a few days ago.  GW2 is still #6 on Amazon and the only MMO still in the top 10.  And I think its safe to assume the majority of sales do not come from Amazon, and it is very easy to extrapolate out to other venues.  Also my guild of 87 people have yet to lose one single player.  I could go on and on but your narrative would still be the game is dieing and is in decline, or the game is horrible.

 

WHAT MORE PROOF YOU NEED.

 

Your proof is based on assumptions. You have no idea what the criteria is for server load designations. Most games may be purchased digitally now and often from the company directly because of perks so Amazon isn't a good indicator. I can say I belonged to a guild of 200 plus people and less than 25% log on now. Every zone used to put me in an overflow and now it only happens in Lion's Arch. Both Xfire and Raptr show huge declines in their numbers for the game. Though not indicative of the overall population, it does show trends in those specific communities. I personally don't think the game is growing anymore, but it isn't dying ethier. The population is stabilizing. It is really no different than the rest of the recent themeparks. Only WoW and Eve grew in player base after the first initial surge and continued to grow.

GW2 is unusual in that it doesnt matter if the people who bought the game no longer play it, Arenanet have already been paid, of course Arenanet don't get to sell them things from the cash shop, but it does mean that their likely to come back and buy the next expac and probably play the game again for a few weeks, which is probably the best kind of scenario that Arenanet can hope for, its been working out pretty well for WoW too, as lapsed players come back for an expac and probably sub for a couple of months. On the plus side, as far as Arenanet are concerned, the demand for W v W PVP becomes less of a queue wars and players are more likely to be actually playing than waiting to play.  So everybody is happy... sort of..  but yes, less people are playing the game now, and in significant numbers by the look of it, but it doesnt sound like the player base has gone critical even so.

Better to state, less players are playing concurrently. We don't have any idea how many people have stopped altogether. As the game doesn't have a sub we will most likely never know. Though seeing the amount of overflow servers at the moment I can say people will easily come back to check out the new stuff.

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