Somehow, every single topic becomes about forum PvP.

In this case, BrandX and BrandY fans, continuing their ongoing Hatfield-McCoy feud, here in the BrandZ forums...

/boggle

Never mind, it does no earthly good to wonder about it.

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Case and point :)     Sad really.....  

To the green portion I can agree with you but it's your tone... it's all wrong....  I also don't see many arguments claiming F2P has superior quality over P2P. I think a lot of people understand what they sacrifice for a game to be free. There are some delusional ones though I'll give you that. I do however (me included) see people argue over the lack of quality in P2P games on the market. But that's not saying F2P has superior quality. 

To the yellow  I see you claim others try to rile up people yet you make this asinine statement. Hypocrisy...

I guess you don't read the forums much then.

Originally posted by Icewhite
Why do people argue about this?

People like arguing..what else are we to do with the internet.....cure cancer?

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by JackFrosty
Then stop complaining and go back to GW2. Bye.

Lol, the thing is all these players saying they can never pay for a sub again are going to come unstuck. If they think subs died with the release of GW2 then they are delusional.

All they are doing is limiting the amount of MMOs they can play.

we will see when the next round of mmo's are released..planetside is next and is free 2 play. can you name an mmorpg coming out soon that will have a sub? Subcriptions are dead.

Nothing is Free 2 Play!

If you really think you're going to have any fun in Planetside 2 without spending a dime! LOL! Good luck my friend.

 I would imagine if your really really really really really good you can get away with that...not many of us are that good though

Originally posted by apocoluster

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by JackFrosty
Then stop complaining and go back to GW2. Bye.

Lol, the thing is all these players saying they can never pay for a sub again are going to come unstuck. If they think subs died with the release of GW2 then they are delusional.

All they are doing is limiting the amount of MMOs they can play.

we will see when the next round of mmo's are released..planetside is next and is free 2 play. can you name an mmorpg coming out soon that will have a sub? Subcriptions are dead.

Nothing is Free 2 Play!

If you really think you're going to have any fun in Planetside 2 without spending a dime! LOL! Good luck my friend.

 I would imagine if your really really really really really good you can get away with that...not many of us are that good though

Join a good outfit. One that is coordinated with the outfit alliance within your faction on your server. PS2 is a game where coordination and selfless teamwork make or break the experience. And what is really promising is that the game has all the structure and voice comms (except for outfit leader coordination) built in to the game.

I've been a part of a community that utilizes such discipline and structure for 8 years in Novalogic's Joint Operations (as well as the ex pack and for years our community's own mod of the ex pack) to put on largescale battles every Sunday.

It is very exciting to see a game with that structure built in. When I joined beta, I happened upon a fantastic outfit. As soon as I load in I join their squad (most times a platoon with 30+). I am immediately able to group up in the thick of the battle making coordinated efforts with great amounts of success. It wasn't until a week later that I even spent any of my accumulated certs. Was playing completely bone stock and loving it.

Originally posted by f0dell54

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Case and point :)     Sad really.....  

To the green portion I can agree with you but it's your tone... it's all wrong....  I also don't see many arguments claiming F2P has superior quality over P2P. I think a lot of people understand what they sacrifice for a game to be free. There are some delusional ones though I'll give you that. I do however (me included) see people argue over the lack of quality in P2P games on the market. But that's not saying F2P has superior quality. 

To the yellow  I see you claim others try to rile up people yet you make this asinine statement. Hypocrisy...

 

I guess you don't read the forums much then.

No I just don't troll the ones I have no interest in for the sake of argument and I don't like F2P titles, I generally hate them. Like I said, there are a few who are a little zealous in their opinions regarding F2P being better, but I doubt anyone really beleives that this translated to quality.

Originally posted by cronius77

 

hey now i never said i didnt like forum pvp i enjoy it as with the first statement. But you are right some companies release a game hence swtor warhammer online etc and are crap quality and the vision of a select few and they tank but still expect everyone to pay for a sub. But there is posts like 3 or 4 above here to that make no sense at all like saying paying a sub after guild wars 2 released is stupid and pointless. No IMO you are just a jobless cheap skate if you take that argument (not you the poster 3 or 4 above) Im so sick of seeing the free to play arguement championed here by guild wars 2 fans because most of them seem to be cheap kids living off mommy still . Guild Wars 2 is a 60.00 free to play game not buy to play yet their loyal fans (most of them) cannot seem to see it for what it is.  You have to gem to open up inventory slots , bank slots , now gambling chests..... and this is coming from someone who still plays it off and on also.  Im just sick of people here complaining about sub fees like free to play is so much better when every model ive ever seen from lotr online to eq2 , all milk the crap out of its playerbases including guild wars 2 , though they do it as its not "needed" but they rely on impulse buying with chests instead to milk their players.

I am not inclined to disagree with you for the most part.  I personally detest cash shops in my games. And I agree that the way Anet has implemented some of their cash shop choices comes off as a cash grab but people who cared to look into it knew what kind of things they were going to implement to try to generate revinue. I certainly don't think that the sub games are going anywhere, but I haven't made it past the initial 30 day trial of any themeparks other than WoW so I was personally hoping for the games success to at least put pressure on future developers to put out quality to earn their sub money.

Rift was one of the titles I thought looked great and went out and bought two copies and jumped right in. I was just soo dissapointed by what I found. I still try to keep up to see some of the changes because there aren't a lot of good titles to throw my money at for worthwhile entertainment.

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by alancode
Omg I don't see how people have a problem paying a TINY tiny 15 dollars a month....really? really. Going to the movie theater on friday night with your buds is more than 15 dollars...and that is for 2 hours...It is just 15 bucks

One movie night with wife costs me anywhere between 50 to 100 bucks, because well can't just go back home after watching a movie. 15 bucks is like a pocket change for whole month of entertainment.

On the other hand isn't it funny how subscription people make such a big deal about the B2P/F2P crowd buying $20 in game cash for an event, every 6 months, and such.  A P2P game costs on average, including the micro-transactions for xpacs, about $250 per year per game.   I have a great selection of subscription free games that cost me nowhere near that per year.

I just find it totally laughable that $15 is nothing for a sub, but a crazy gouge for the cash shop.

Assuming 20 bucks is all people spend in cash for events. 15 bucks for  a month for Rift is fixed and all content is avilable to you without Trion tryign to push CS on its player base.

So nope not the same thing.

And you're inferring they're spending more.  That is actually what I love about the no subscription model - I can pay whatever I feel like and my budget allows.  There is no minimum entry fee or cost, but there is also no ceiling.  With P2P games there is a $250 (ave)  per year minimum cost plus any additional micro-transactions.  I'm not spending that much on any game any more for the forseeable future.

RIFT *is* pretty nice as a sub game as the micro-transactions they offer are fairly minimal and aren't required really.  I'm not a big fan of micro-transactions with a sub game any more than I am of the rng consumables or gold sales in cash shops, but I accept that some people want that.

It's not that I can't afford $15 per month because I can.  It's that I don't think any game out right now, including RIFT, is worth the annual fee.  The game simply isn't worth $250 per year to me.

Originally posted by Torvaldr  It's that I don't think any game out right now, including RIFT, is worth the annual fee.  The game simply isn't worth $250 per year to me.

Good thing it's only $120 for a year then .. which includes the purchase price of the expansion btw. I haven't resubbed yet, but I sure am considering it.

I much prefer a sub fee over so-called F2P. The constant irritations put in to make me want the extra "conveniences" is just irritating. In fact, I've pretty much stopped playing GW2. I don't want a game to keep me poor to make me want to buy gold, and clog my inventory to make me buy bag space. And when special events come around I don't want to have to buy keys or whatever. I'd much rather plonk down my $15 per month and just enjoy the game.

Originally posted by mWo4life

I just don't want to pay to play.

ok, opinion noted. Thanks for sharing.

Originally posted by snapfusion
If you dont yet understand  the differences between sub games and cash shop games then there is no point in trying to explain them to you.  I will presume that either your broke, or that your okay with enjoying the "parts" of a cash shop game that you can afford, and doing without the rest of the game.

Depends on the cash shop game and the sub game in question.  While in GW2 you can earn everything from the cash shop by playing the game, you'll never be able to grind a store-exclusive mount or pet in WoW.  Just an example.  The idea that you can access everything in a sub game and not access everything in a CS game is flawed.

---

Originally posted by mWo4life
I have Rift trial account. I just reached lvl 20 and to continue to play it  I need to buy the game and to subscribe. I can buy the game with expansion, no problem, what is stopping me is subscription. I just don't want to pay to play.

I also play GW2 and EVE now, and I cannot see any justification why I should pay sub-fee in Rift. Combat is boring tap-targeting, graphics is outdated, no voiced cut-scenes, all quests are like kill 10x of this, collect 10x of that, etc. GW2 provides better experience for me without sub-fee than Rift with sub-fees. Ppl say Rift has good end-game. Maybe, but it will take me months before I reach it. So why bother, if I don't know I will even like it? The only sub-fees that I tolerate atm are in EVE. And this is because, I have an option to pay the fees using in-game currency.

 

 

---

Thats cool. But why are you sorry? Did you promise someone youd play or something? Theres no need to apologize for what you like and dont like and what you are and arent willing to pay for. Happy gaming :)

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by snapfusion
If you dont yet understand  the differences between sub games and cash shop games then there is no point in trying to explain them to you.  I will presume that either your broke, or that your okay with enjoying the "parts" of a cash shop game that you can afford, and doing without the rest of the game.

Depends on the cash shop game and the sub game in question.  While in GW2 you can earn everything from the cash shop by playing the game, you'll never be able to grind a store-exclusive mount or pet in WoW.  Just an example.  The idea that you can access everything in a sub game and not access everything in a CS game is flawed.

It is not realistic to assume you can aquire every single item available in a cash shop game in a RESONABLE amount of time.  Cash shop games ALWAYS leave you holding the bag with more of one object than another that are needed to work together, or to help you accomplish an unreasonable task in a resonable amount of time.   Not to mention the thousands of hours you will need to invest in tasks that are actually designed to drive you insane verses throwing the towel in and yes running to the cash shop.

The days of setting up  a modest reoccuring sub payment ONE TIME,   then chilling back and acquiring everything the game has to offer from the gameworld is almost gone.  This model is being replaced with "free" entry then gamers wearing their accounting hat, calculator in hand trying to determine how much game they can afford to buy when the fun wears out the barriers present themselfs.  Nothing breaks the immersion of game play more than cash shop mechanics.

I play games to relax and have fun, not integrating accounting bridges in my MMO.  14 bucks a months is also not the differnce between me keeping the electricity on either.  Its the price to have total control of my MMO and not be jerked around by Cash Shop mechanics and currency conversion rates..

Originally posted by snapfusion

 

It is not realistic to assume you can aquire every single item available in a cash shop game in a RESONABLE amount of time.  Cash shop games ALWAYS leave you holding the bag with more of one object than another that are needed to work together, or to help you accomplish an unreasonable task in a resonable amount of time.   Not to mention the thousands of hours you will need to invest in tasks that are actually designed to drive you insane verses throwing the towel in and yes running to the cash shop.

The days of setting up  a modest reoccuring sub payment ONE TIME,   then chilling back and acquiring everything the game has to offer from the gameworld is almost gone.  This model is being replaced with "free" entry then gamers wearing their accounting hat, calculator in hand trying to determine how much game they can afford to buy when the fun wears out the barriers present themselfs.  Nothing breaks the immersion of game play more than cash shop mechanics.

I play games to relax and have fun, not integrating accounting bridges in my MMO.  14 bucks a months is also not the differnce between me keeping the electricity on either.  Its the price to have total control of my MMO and not be jerked around by Cash Shop mechanics and currency conversion rates..

 

yet most all P2P games have micro transations on items you cannot aquire in game without spending money on them.. how is this better?

Originally posted by Entris38
Ok, thanks for sharing

^

This

Why do people need to run to a forum and say they stopped playing or started playing a game.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Entris38
Ok, thanks for sharing

^

This

 

Why do people need to run to a forum and say they stopped playing or started playing a game.

It make them feel better

Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by snapfusion
If you dont yet understand  the differences between sub games and cash shop games then there is no point in trying to explain them to you.  I will presume that either your broke, or that your okay with enjoying the "parts" of a cash shop game that you can afford, and doing without the rest of the game.

Depends on the cash shop game and the sub game in question.  While in GW2 you can earn everything from the cash shop by playing the game, you'll never be able to grind a store-exclusive mount or pet in WoW.  Just an example.  The idea that you can access everything in a sub game and not access everything in a CS game is flawed.

It is not realistic to assume you can aquire every single item available in a cash shop game in a RESONABLE amount of time.  Cash shop games ALWAYS leave you holding the bag with more of one object than another that are needed to work together, or to help you accomplish an unreasonable task in a resonable amount of time.   Not to mention the thousands of hours you will need to invest in tasks that are actually designed to drive you insane verses throwing the towel in and yes running to the cash shop.

The days of setting up  a modest reoccuring sub payment ONE TIME,   then chilling back and acquiring everything the game has to offer from the gameworld is almost gone.  This model is being replaced with "free" entry then gamers wearing their accounting hat, calculator in hand trying to determine how much game they can afford to buy when the fun wears out the barriers present themselfs.  Nothing breaks the immersion of game play more than cash shop mechanics.

I play games to relax and have fun, not integrating accounting bridges in my MMO.  14 bucks a months is also not the differnce between me keeping the electricity on either.  Its the price to have total control of my MMO and not be jerked around by Cash Shop mechanics and currency conversion rates..

 

You completely dodged my question.  Let me ask a different way.  Say you're a completionist playing both GW2 and WoW. 

In GW2, you can grind gold and buy gems with that gold, reasonable amount of time or not (ie: reasonable is a subjective term by the way).

In WoW and other MMOs I've seen, there are cash shop EXCLUSIVE items.  This means you cannot pay for them with time spent in-game.  Ever.

This adds up to one thing.  If you want those items, you pay real money to get them.  Hence, not everything in sub MMOs is covered in the monthly fee.

I see we agree that "Nothing breaks the immersion of game play more than cash shop mechanics." Unfortunately, sub games are starting to include cash shops with items that absolutely cannot be obtained without breaking out your plastic.

You're absolutely right about the old days of just paying a sub and enjoying a game are gone, but it's not because of F2P or B2P models.  It's because of GREED.

Just thought I'd point all of this out since, ironically, you seem to think other people don't know the difference.