Originally posted by Trudge34
One word: Freedom.

+1

Essentially, it's all the reasons mentionned. The first-person combat makes the gameplay more engaging for me. Most of my time is spent exploring. How many times where I've seen something and thought "what's this" only for the same thing to happen 5 minutes later and before I know it's 2 A.M . I don't play TES game exactly for the main story though, as it's always been fairly average, but TES games shines the brightest in its side quests. Crafting never played a big part of the TES games however (ignoring Alchemy). And finally, FREEEEEEEDOM!.

Another reason that wasn't mentionned : The modding community. It's glorious!

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by Entinerint
I need an all-of-the-above option, because if you take out even one of those, it's no longer TES.

The point of this poll isnt to figure out what "makes" TES, TES, its about figuring out what people -think- the most important aspect is for them.

I enjoy all of the above, but if I had to pick one (and i did) its the Numina that makes me play TES games, it certainly isn't the combat, but a TES without combat wouldn't be TES.

You get my drift?

If TES games had a more traditional MMO style of 3rd person combat with hotbars and skills, it would be the best RPG ever made for me.  I have purchased every single TES RPG but have never finished them because the combat is the most boring.

In The Words of William Wallace:

Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom!

But what really happens..

Biggest positives:

Freedom / Exploration / Discovery

First person perspective

Biggest negatives:

Rubber-banding world (Oblivion)

Only small amounts of discoverable content, with most tied to guilds/factions as quest hubs or long arc main storyline

Originally posted by XAPGames

Biggest positives:

Freedom / Exploration / Discovery

First person perspective

 

Biggest negatives:

Rubber-banding world (Oblivion)

Only small amounts of discoverable content, with most tied to guilds/factions as quest hubs or long arc main storyline

im curious,  you put discovery in your positive,  and also in your negative.  

what i like the most is they are true RPG's.  i can be a murderer,  a thief,  a knight,  a traveler, a villager,  a blacksmith,  an alchemist,  an ass hole,  the games me the opportunity play a role,  in a virtual world.  something i think most mmoRPG's have missed on.  i guess that's why developers and fans just call them MMO's nowadays.

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by XAPGames

Biggest positives:

Freedom / Exploration / Discovery

First person perspective

 

Biggest negatives:

Rubber-banding world (Oblivion)

Only small amounts of discoverable content, with most tied to guilds/factions as quest hubs or long arc main storyline

im curious,  you put discovery in your positive,  and also in your negative.  

I like the concept of exploration / discovery as a game mechanic.  I feel it takes the game "off rails" and gives it more of an adventure feel.  That's the positive part.

The negative part is that even though the game allows for exploration and discovery, most of the questing storyline content is still based on conventional quest hub design.  What I would prefer is more content where you wonder into a cave and accidently find your way into storyline content.

Sure I can wonder into a cave, find vampires and kill them.  But why are the vamires there?  Are they doing something interesting?  By killing them, did I open up dialog content somewhere else in the game?

Most of the time, exploration on it's own amounts to wonder in somewhere, get attacked, kill them and take their stuff.  I think it could be more than that.

Originally posted by muffins89

what i like the most is they are true RPG's.  i can be a murderer,  a thief,  a knight,  a traveler, a villager,  a blacksmith,  an alchemist,  an ass hole,  the games me the opportunity play a role,  in a virtual world.  something i think most mmoRPG's have missed on.  i guess that's why developers and fans just call them MMO's nowadays.

This is why in some sense I really, really miss open world sandbox fantasy MMORPGs.

Sadly I think far too many of the l33t kid PK FPS junkie crowd have gotten into MMOs to ever make such a sandbox viable unless you completely seperate PvE and PvP.

What makes TES (Skyrim specifically for me) so good?

It's MY sandbox.

What would ruin Skyrim for me?

Exploring out in the wild, find a cave/dungeon and start clearing it - get to the end and.... dozen or so people standing around spamming /dance and making Chuck Norris jokes waiting to spawn tag a named mob respawn...

Sneaking through a city, picking pockets and breaking into homes and shops, murdering the occassional shop keeper / villager... and having a naked half-elf following me around doing /yell and bunny hopping...

Traveling through the woods looking for mines and hunting dear for leather to make and modify/enhance some more armor, pursuing my love of being a blacksmith... and having some kid PK me and then spawn camp my corpse after looting all my custom-made gear and items.

Long story short - the reason sandbox games really don't "work" for me and so many others anymore -

Most MMO players are idiots/assholes.

Sure, you ca say "yeah but in a true sandbox you could kill the naked half-elf following you, bring your guildies and clear out all the players spawning the named mob, and bring a friend or two and hunt down and kill the PK who camped your corpse" - which is all true.

But not good enough - MY sandbox and MY experience has already been ruined.

And I am simply not going to pay to be someone else's content - especially when it's at the expense of my enjoyment of the game.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by muffins89

what i like the most is they are true RPG's.  i can be a murderer,  a thief,  a knight,  a traveler, a villager,  a blacksmith,  an alchemist,  an ass hole,  the games me the opportunity play a role,  in a virtual world.  something i think most mmoRPG's have missed on.  i guess that's why developers and fans just call them MMO's nowadays.

This is why in some sense I really, really miss open world sandbox fantasy MMORPGs.

Sadly I think far too many of the l33t kid PK FPS junkie crowd have gotten into MMOs to ever make such a sandbox viable unless you completely seperate PvE and PvP.

What makes TES (Skyrim specifically for me) so good?

It's MY sandbox.

What would ruin Skyrim for me?

Exploring out in the wild, find a cave/dungeon and start clearing it - get to the end and.... dozen or so people standing around spamming /dance and making Chuck Norris jokes waiting to spawn tag a named mob respawn...

Sneaking through a city, picking pockets and breaking into homes and shops, murdering the occassional shop keeper / villager... and having a naked half-elf following me around doing /yell and bunny hopping...

Traveling through the woods looking for mines and hunting dear for leather to make and modify/enhance some more armor, pursuing my love of being a blacksmith... and having some kid PK me and then spawn camp my corpse after looting all my custom-made gear and items.

Long story short - the reason sandbox games really don't "work" for me and so many others anymore -

Most MMO players are idiots/assholes.

Sure, you ca say "yeah but in a true sandbox you could kill the naked half-elf following you, bring your guildies and clear out all the players spawning the named mob, and bring a friend or two and hunt down and kill the PK who camped your corpse" - which is all true.

But not good enough - MY sandbox and MY experience has already been ruined.

And I am simply not going to pay to be someone else's content - especially when it's at the expense of my enjoyment of the game.

All we would need is for one of these games to add a proper crime+punishment and NPC faction system instead of the wimpy flagging that Darkfall and Mortal do.  Make being a criminal/murderer a REALLY hard life.

- Bounty systems where lawful players can hunt down criminals and kill them for money.

- Add NPC factions/governments who player factions can choose to ally with, for a price: you have to obey their laws and pay fealty/taxes, but you get their protection in return.

- If they don't ally with a government, the can be considered rogue, and will be periodically attacked by NPCs from their closest NPC faction.

- Criminals/Murderers will be hunted by NPCs (mercs, guards, assassins), who show up randomly and attack them.

- Actual guards in NPC towns (hireable for player towns if aligned with a faction) who can immobilize/capture/kill criminals.

- Criminals can choose to go to prison where they literally have to wait for in-game, non-afk time for their sentence to be up.  They can choose hard labor and break rocks/cut trees, duel other players in jail or play gambling games to pass the time.  They can pay fines for minor crimes.

Basically makes it possible to be a PKer/Griefer but makes it a hard life to choose.  Encourages more lawful behavior.  Makes getting caught a pain in the ass and players will likely not commit crimes again once having had a stint in jail.

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by BadSpock

This is why in some sense I really, really miss open world sandbox fantasy MMORPGs.

Sadly I think far too many of the l33t kid PK FPS junkie crowd have gotten into MMOs to ever make such a sandbox viable unless you completely seperate PvE and PvP.

What makes TES (Skyrim specifically for me) so good?

It's MY sandbox.

What would ruin Skyrim for me?

Exploring out in the wild, find a cave/dungeon and start clearing it - get to the end and.... dozen or so people standing around spamming /dance and making Chuck Norris jokes waiting to spawn tag a named mob respawn...

Sneaking through a city, picking pockets and breaking into homes and shops, murdering the occassional shop keeper / villager... and having a naked half-elf following me around doing /yell and bunny hopping...

Traveling through the woods looking for mines and hunting dear for leather to make and modify/enhance some more armor, pursuing my love of being a blacksmith... and having some kid PK me and then spawn camp my corpse after looting all my custom-made gear and items.

Long story short - the reason sandbox games really don't "work" for me and so many others anymore -

Most MMO players are idiots/assholes.

Sure, you ca say "yeah but in a true sandbox you could kill the naked half-elf following you, bring your guildies and clear out all the players spawning the named mob, and bring a friend or two and hunt down and kill the PK who camped your corpse" - which is all true.

But not good enough - MY sandbox and MY experience has already been ruined.

And I am simply not going to pay to be someone else's content - especially when it's at the expense of my enjoyment of the game.

All we would need is for one of these games to add a proper crime+punishment and NPC faction system instead of the wimpy flagging that Darkfall and Mortal do.  Make being a criminal/murderer a REALLY hard life.

Basically makes it possible to be a PKer/Griefer but makes it a hard life to choose.  Encourages more lawful behavior.  Makes getting caught a pain in the ass and players will likely not commit crimes again once having had a stint in jail.

I agree 100% and have been saying such on this very website for some time now - life is always way, way too easy for PK's in sandbox MMOs.

Even in Skyrim, you can be a total bastard in one province and have a HUGE bounty on your head - and just go to another province and everyone still loves you.

That's how I do it, make sure I have a "home" district where I have no bounty so I still have access to vendors and housing etc. without issues.

Those kind of lenient rules is what PKs thive off of and are thusly free to make life Hell on everyone else with NO real punishment or worry.

Thusly I am happy ESO is not a true sandbox MMO, as other players would naturally RUIN my ES sandbox.

I'd go as far to say that to make it really "work" in a sandbox MMO, you'd have to have permadeath for repeat offenders.

Talk about realism - want to be a murderous pirate / assassin / general bastard? Better not get caught or it really is game over. You'd think if the PKs are really so "hardcore" they'd love it! But they don't, because most of them are really just skilless noob gankers/griefers who QQ when they lose a more fair fight.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by BadSpock

This is why in some sense I really, really miss open world sandbox fantasy MMORPGs.

Sadly I think far too many of the l33t kid PK FPS junkie crowd have gotten into MMOs to ever make such a sandbox viable unless you completely seperate PvE and PvP.

What makes TES (Skyrim specifically for me) so good?

It's MY sandbox.

What would ruin Skyrim for me?

Exploring out in the wild, find a cave/dungeon and start clearing it - get to the end and.... dozen or so people standing around spamming /dance and making Chuck Norris jokes waiting to spawn tag a named mob respawn...

Sneaking through a city, picking pockets and breaking into homes and shops, murdering the occassional shop keeper / villager... and having a naked half-elf following me around doing /yell and bunny hopping...

Traveling through the woods looking for mines and hunting dear for leather to make and modify/enhance some more armor, pursuing my love of being a blacksmith... and having some kid PK me and then spawn camp my corpse after looting all my custom-made gear and items.

Long story short - the reason sandbox games really don't "work" for me and so many others anymore -

Most MMO players are idiots/assholes.

Sure, you ca say "yeah but in a true sandbox you could kill the naked half-elf following you, bring your guildies and clear out all the players spawning the named mob, and bring a friend or two and hunt down and kill the PK who camped your corpse" - which is all true.

But not good enough - MY sandbox and MY experience has already been ruined.

And I am simply not going to pay to be someone else's content - especially when it's at the expense of my enjoyment of the game.

All we would need is for one of these games to add a proper crime+punishment and NPC faction system instead of the wimpy flagging that Darkfall and Mortal do.  Make being a criminal/murderer a REALLY hard life.

Basically makes it possible to be a PKer/Griefer but makes it a hard life to choose.  Encourages more lawful behavior.  Makes getting caught a pain in the ass and players will likely not commit crimes again once having had a stint in jail.

I agree 100% and have been saying such on this very website for some time now - life is always way, way too easy for PK's in sandbox MMOs.

Even in Skyrim, you can be a total bastard in one province and have a HUGE bounty on your head - and just go to another province and everyone still loves you.

That's how I do it, make sure I have a "home" district where I have no bounty so I still have access to vendors and housing etc. without issues.

Those kind of lenient rules is what PKs thive off of and are thusly free to make life Hell on everyone else with NO real punishment or worry.

Thusly I am happy ESO is not a true sandbox MMO, as other players would naturally RUIN my ES sandbox.

I'd go as far to say that to make it really "work" in a sandbox MMO, you'd have to have permadeath for repeat offenders.

Talk about realism - want to be a murderous pirate / assassin / general bastard? Better not get caught or it really is game over. You'd think if the PKs are really so "hardcore" they'd love it! But they don't, because most of them are really just skilless noob gankers/griefers who QQ when they lose a more fair fight.

Permadeath public executions?  Holy shit that's brilliant.  As a person who usually plays a thief (when possible), that would be A-MAZING to have looming over my head.

I really think TESO could be an amazing sandbox IF it had the balls to add this kind of stuff.  But ZOS clearly does not think that way, so we will get a hum-drum themepark with TES lore.

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by BadSpock

This is why in some sense I really, really miss open world sandbox fantasy MMORPGs.

Sadly I think far too many of the l33t kid PK FPS junkie crowd have gotten into MMOs to ever make such a sandbox viable unless you completely seperate PvE and PvP.

What makes TES (Skyrim specifically for me) so good?

It's MY sandbox.

What would ruin Skyrim for me?

Exploring out in the wild, find a cave/dungeon and start clearing it - get to the end and.... dozen or so people standing around spamming /dance and making Chuck Norris jokes waiting to spawn tag a named mob respawn...

Sneaking through a city, picking pockets and breaking into homes and shops, murdering the occassional shop keeper / villager... and having a naked half-elf following me around doing /yell and bunny hopping...

Traveling through the woods looking for mines and hunting dear for leather to make and modify/enhance some more armor, pursuing my love of being a blacksmith... and having some kid PK me and then spawn camp my corpse after looting all my custom-made gear and items.

Long story short - the reason sandbox games really don't "work" for me and so many others anymore -

Most MMO players are idiots/assholes.

Sure, you ca say "yeah but in a true sandbox you could kill the naked half-elf following you, bring your guildies and clear out all the players spawning the named mob, and bring a friend or two and hunt down and kill the PK who camped your corpse" - which is all true.

But not good enough - MY sandbox and MY experience has already been ruined.

And I am simply not going to pay to be someone else's content - especially when it's at the expense of my enjoyment of the game.

All we would need is for one of these games to add a proper crime+punishment and NPC faction system instead of the wimpy flagging that Darkfall and Mortal do.  Make being a criminal/murderer a REALLY hard life.

Basically makes it possible to be a PKer/Griefer but makes it a hard life to choose.  Encourages more lawful behavior.  Makes getting caught a pain in the ass and players will likely not commit crimes again once having had a stint in jail.

I agree 100% and have been saying such on this very website for some time now - life is always way, way too easy for PK's in sandbox MMOs.

Even in Skyrim, you can be a total bastard in one province and have a HUGE bounty on your head - and just go to another province and everyone still loves you.

That's how I do it, make sure I have a "home" district where I have no bounty so I still have access to vendors and housing etc. without issues.

Those kind of lenient rules is what PKs thive off of and are thusly free to make life Hell on everyone else with NO real punishment or worry.

Thusly I am happy ESO is not a true sandbox MMO, as other players would naturally RUIN my ES sandbox.

I'd go as far to say that to make it really "work" in a sandbox MMO, you'd have to have permadeath for repeat offenders.

Talk about realism - want to be a murderous pirate / assassin / general bastard? Better not get caught or it really is game over. You'd think if the PKs are really so "hardcore" they'd love it! But they don't, because most of them are really just skilless noob gankers/griefers who QQ when they lose a more fair fight.

Permadeath public executions?  Holy shit that's brilliant.  As a person who usually plays a thief (when possible), that would be A-MAZING to have looming over my head.

I really think TESO could be an amazing sandbox IF it had the balls to add this kind of stuff.  But ZOS clearly does not think that way, so we will get a hum-drum themepark with TES lore.

Yep, would be totally awesome and worthy (IMO) of the TES name... I mean, imagine having to choose whether or not you log in and watch your own publicly scheduled and presented execution - the permanent death of your character for all to see.

TES game about actually RPG and lore and the WORLD/immersion instead of the levels and gear and progression, wouldn't be too big of a deal for *some* players to have to re-roll if their thief/assassin got perma-deathed.

As long as your dead toons name was permanently off the books - as well as all their property and holdings etc. auctioned off for the public... no "passing down" anything to new toons.

Would also be SO totally awesome to have actual auctions in a MMO - especially for the assets of a notorious (and now dead) PK on the server.

Hell, even have buddies/guildies attempt to free the PK at the execution, fight with the actually competent NPC guards (as you said) as well as hired player mercenaries and any/all other upstanding citizens present for the execution.

Guilds could wage war with other guilds over murderers/theives caught on their lands and scheduled for executions.

The possibilities... that is what ES is really about - possibilities.

SUCH a missed opportunity here.

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by Trudge34
One word: Freedom.

+1

 

Essentially, it's all the reasons mentionned. The first-person combat makes the gameplay more engaging for me. Most of my time is spent exploring. How many times where I've seen something and thought "what's this" only for the same thing to happen 5 minutes later and before I know it's 2 A.M . I don't play TES game exactly for the main story though, as it's always been fairly average, but TES games shines the brightest in its side quests. Crafting never played a big part of the TES games however (ignoring Alchemy). And finally, FREEEEEEEDOM!.

Another reason that wasn't mentionned : The modding community. It's glorious!

  Are you high?  I've crafted in all of them...and its literally the only way to get the best things.  In Skyrim this is doubly true, but it played the same in all of them.  Especially spellcrafting, found in Morrowind.  Granted that went the way of the dodo...but...

  Crafting is a great and massive part of those games.  The skill of the crafter, and the enchants chosen, can change everything wildly.  Just in skyrim the myraid of options you have for gear is pretty nuts when you factor in talents and how those affect what weapon and enchant options work optimally.  I'll just say this, my Smith has over double the armor rating of my non smith in the same bloody gear.  That pretty much means crafting playes a large role.

Originally posted by Gishgeron

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by Trudge34
One word: Freedom.

+1

 

Essentially, it's all the reasons mentionned. The first-person combat makes the gameplay more engaging for me. Most of my time is spent exploring. How many times where I've seen something and thought "what's this" only for the same thing to happen 5 minutes later and before I know it's 2 A.M . I don't play TES game exactly for the main story though, as it's always been fairly average, but TES games shines the brightest in its side quests. Crafting never played a big part of the TES games however (ignoring Alchemy). And finally, FREEEEEEEDOM!.

Another reason that wasn't mentionned : The modding community. It's glorious!

 

  Are you high?  I've crafted in all of them...and its literally the only way to get the best things.  In Skyrim this is doubly true, but it played the same in all of them.  Especially spellcrafting, found in Morrowind.  Granted that went the way of the dodo...but...

 

  Crafting is a great and massive part of those games.  The skill of the crafter, and the enchants chosen, can change everything wildly.  Just in skyrim the myraid of options you have for gear is pretty nuts when you factor in talents and how those affect what weapon and enchant options work optimally.  I'll just say this, my Smith has over double the armor rating of my non smith in the same bloody gear.  That pretty much means crafting playes a large role.

By "crafting never played a big part of the TES games" I meant that crafting never was a major focus for the developers. Yes you can craft, depending on the game what you can craft varies (Alchemy and Enchantingstayed pretty much the same, but Spellcrafting is not present in Skyrim for example, but was in Morrowind and Oblivion), but my point is that it's not where the developers put most of their efforts in.

Alchemy, Enchanting and Spellcrafting were always pretty popular, not sure why they got rid of Spellcrafting for Skyrim, but other than those 3, only Skyrim actually allows you to craft armors and weapons, and it's overly simplistic. Is it a great addition in Skyrim? Yes. Is it a big part of the TES games? No, and never was (again, ignoring Alchemy, Enchanting and Spellcrafting).

I would have thought Numen would have gotten more votes...

Originally posted by Entinerint
I need an all-of-the-above option, because if you take out even one of those, it's no longer TES.

This^  I was about to post the same thing.