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Rift

Rift 

General Discussion  » How can Trion do it?

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64 posts found
  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2888

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

10/21/12 3:23:07 PM#41
Originally posted by Tamanous 

2. They do not develop much with original thought. The content they pump out is either based on a model they already perfected (small updates of themed Rift-tech invasions) or an expansion filled with ideas from tech already well tested in other mmos.

Think your thinking of WoW there. 

Granted we can admit they did take ideas they found from other games (face it, its a good practice, WoW is created solely after this taking from EQ1 with virutally all features taken from other gmae) they have added quite a bit of original stuff into the game (as far as I know). The concept of Instant adventure was a new concept that took emphasis in the game, and they have added other little components that weren't used much in MMos, the defense points/turrets taking some inspiration from Tower Defense of sorts not done in other MMos (that I've seen). Much of their other content was expanded upon greatly from other games, such as the Zone Event (Improving upon the Warhammer idea that wasn't really fleshed out to well). Leader board itself was a concept never really handled in MMos that much and was expanded greatly in Rift to make it stand out being different. 

They have A LOT of original thought when it comes to the game, though we can admit a good deal comes from expanding on older concepts or retuning them to fit the game in their own brand. If we are going for complete originality, your not going to find a single game that exists out there that has that. Everything has already been done, we can only hope to change it up or expand upon it more to make it new and exciting.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7188

10/21/12 3:24:23 PM#42


Originally posted by Myrdynn

the fact that AC is a 13 yr old game and still having regular patches, has nothing to do with its graphics

If you believe this

takes as much time to make as this...


  Arkain

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/04
Posts: 501

Hows your google-Fu?

10/21/12 4:20:37 PM#43
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Arkain

lol, one might think that but most of the MMO's out right no are some what generic, just look at GW2 for example, very generic asian grinder look to it, but will they be able to turn out the land content quickly, time will only tell. 


 

Cannot speak for GW2 but no major MMO title has as generic world as Rift has. Not even remotely close.


Vast, empty, open, detail lacking landscapes. It is like playing a game from 10 years ago.


I guess that is why you can hear sometimes the game being described as soulless.

 

I do not want to belittle the effort Trion does. The amount of content they release is very impressive, content released though is not so much.

lol,

Have you ever heard of "World of Warcraft" art and style stolen from Warhammer and it copyed EQ for the most part.

Maybe you know of a little MMO named "EverQuest", stolden from Dungons & Dragons art and style.

thats just 2, almost all MMOs copy others in one form or another, thats not a bad thing.

Now on your 10 years ago look.......LOL, you must be really young to not have any idea what MMOs looked like then...LOL.

To help you out, heres the back of a box from a MMO of 10 years ago (or so):

O, to be sooooo young again.

 

  Myrdynn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1426

10/21/12 4:47:12 PM#44
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Myrdynn

the fact that AC is a 13 yr old game and still having regular patches, has nothing to do with its graphics


 

If you believe this

takes as much time to make as this...

 

actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time.  Its the fact that devs dont use funding for content patching.  That was the selling point of Asheron's Call, why you paid monthly, you got not only unlimited play time (in an ERA where there were still pay by the hour games) but you got monthly patches, every month.

The dev team for AC was also microscopic compared to the dev teams of modern days, and they still cant patch. 

I dont understand what you are arguing with though

Content patches have nothing to do with Graphics, most patches in most games, are simply made by turning on a model and placing it in the environment

 

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7188

10/21/12 5:15:06 PM#45


Originally posted by Myrdynn

actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time.

Erm, no.

Problem is, "turning on a model and placing it in the environment" is not as simple as you think it is...

  banzai014

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 35

10/21/12 5:19:56 PM#46
Shovelware
  Panther2103

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 2085

10/21/12 5:27:06 PM#47
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Myrdynn

actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time.


 

Erm, no.

Problem is, "turning on a model and placing it in the environment" is not as simple as you think it is...

The company with an engine that allows more detail will take a lot longer to produce the content because of the amount of effort it takes to get the detail into the character models or the armor models or the environment. With older engines people could just slap a nice looking texture on a bunch of polygons and be good, with newer engines it takes a hell of a lot longer or at least a bigger development team working solely on that to pump it out as quick.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2888

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

10/21/12 5:34:57 PM#48
Originally posted by Panther2103
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Myrdynn

actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time.


 

Erm, no.

Problem is, "turning on a model and placing it in the environment" is not as simple as you think it is...

The company with an engine that allows more detail will take a lot longer to produce the content because of the amount of effort it takes to get the detail into the character models or the armor models or the environment. With older engines people could just slap a nice looking texture on a bunch of polygons and be good, with newer engines it takes a hell of a lot longer or at least a bigger development team working solely on that to pump it out as quick.

Exactly, and older engines typically won't be as complexly coded, meaning in some cases they might have to worry about people jumping places they aren't suppose to go and due to limitations might not have to worry about adding custom 'abilities' or the likes for special event items, making events simpler due to engine limitations in place. There are a lot less variables to consider in those older games. Models are an area where more time is required but on a coding level its still also a concern and can become quickly a lot more work the more variation they add to the game to change it up.

 

Again, not saying they aren't doing a good job pumping out new contest fast, its just they do take a lot less work then what newer games will likely take to put content in at that constant pace at a good quality.

  Myrdynn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1426

10/21/12 5:41:00 PM#49

from my use with Hero Engine, I beg to differ.

Dev teams, have artists, that do nothing but models, environment builders, and content writers, along with many other people.

for someone who does nothing but this for a living it shouldnt be all that hard to do

 

  DSWBeef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 777

10/21/12 5:47:23 PM#50
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by Scalpless IMO it's less about Trion being very fast and more about everyone else being very slow.
I remember in Beta that Trion said that they focused heavily on making the servers as stable as possible, so that once the beta would start, they could focus on actually tweaking/fixing the game rather than fixing the servers. It seems obvious at first, but when Rift is one of the few MMOs as of late to actually have a stable release (and beta), then I'd be inclined to agree with you that it's not about Trion being very fast, but about everyone else being very slow. Trion got their priorities right.

 

The beta was hardly stable, They were fixing bugs right up to the last minute. (like it should be)

He said SERVERS! Trion had arguably the best server structure ive ever seen. I crashed ONCE the whole beta and launch week. And i maybe D/Ced 4 times in alpha.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, World of Warcraft, and Diablo 3
Waiting on: Archeage, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3180

10/21/12 5:50:48 PM#51
It's more about other games being slow than Trion being fast.
  psiicat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 30

10/21/12 5:57:55 PM#52
Originally posted by Panther2103
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Myrdynn

actually, considering once the engine is made, yes it takes the same amount of time.


 

Erm, no.

Problem is, "turning on a model and placing it in the environment" is not as simple as you think it is...

The company with an engine that allows more detail will take a lot longer to produce the content because of the amount of effort it takes to get the detail into the character models or the armor models or the environment. With older engines people could just slap a nice looking texture on a bunch of polygons and be good, with newer engines it takes a hell of a lot longer or at least a bigger development team working solely on that to pump it out as quick.

absolutely a model with 10k wires takres way longer to design that one that is based on 1000 wires.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/21/12 6:00:27 PM#53
Originally posted by Myrdynn
(in an ERA where there were still pay by the hour games) but you got monthly patches, every month.

To my knowledge, no MMO ever used hourly billing.  Did I miss Turbine using collection agencies and post-use billing?

MMOs never ran on AOL/GEnie/Compuserve--where the last of the hourly-rate games lived--before they moved to the web, circa 1994-1997.  Those were Kesmai, Gemstone...pre-MMO games, MUDs, poker and bridge, chess, etc.

AC didn't even open until late '99, right?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Myrdynn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1426

10/21/12 6:15:21 PM#54

I dunno before I played AC I played Shadows of Yserbius for I wanna say $3 an hour, and it was on AOL, it was an additional service outside of the AOL service just to be online.

maybe it ended before AC, it was in the 90's so my dates may be off, kinda too old to remember exact details

 

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1230

10/21/12 9:24:40 PM#55
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Arkain

lol, one might think that but most of the MMO's out right no are some what generic, just look at GW2 for example, very generic asian grinder look to it, but will they be able to turn out the land content quickly, time will only tell. 


 

Cannot speak for GW2 but no major MMO title has as generic world as Rift has. Not even remotely close.


Vast, empty, open, detail lacking landscapes. It is like playing a game from 10 years ago.


I guess that is why you can hear sometimes the game being described as soulless.

 

I do not want to belittle the effort Trion does. The amount of content they release is very impressive, content released though is not so much.

Really? Judging by your first 3 sentences, I'd have guessed belitting Trion's efforts was specifically your goal.

 

 

  User Deleted
10/21/12 9:28:34 PM#56
Originally posted by cyandk
How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?

Very simple.  They view RIFT as a 'service' not a game.  As a sub-based game, they actually feel that they need to be a step-up above F2P games content.  As a sub game, RIFT is a great value for what you pay for it.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1230

10/21/12 9:35:42 PM#57
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by cyandk
How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?

Or they are just copying eveyone else. The game is very boring and just a blatant carbon copy of other games.

A blatant carbon copy? Really? Do you even know what a "blatant carbon copy" is? That would be an exact duplicate of something else.

In other words, you're exaggerating. Horribly.

Does it share similar basic game systems with other MMOs? Yes. Does it share a similar quest progression system? Sure. Different races and classed? Yep! An experience point system for leveling? You betcha!

Its mix-and-match soul/skill tree system is certainly not a carbon copy of other games. Similar? In its basic setup and purpose, yes. But in terms of its execution and functionality? No.

In how many other MMOs do you have world events happening over an entire zone, rifts popping up which can lead to full-on invasions of enemies marching on a town to attempt to destroy it? In what other MMO would you be running down a path to see a huge freaking dragon, or some other huge creature and its minions rampaging toward you? In what other MMO can you track and intervene with the progression of these invading forces before they get where they're going?

In how many other MMOs does something like this happen on a zone-wide basis at all, nevermind multiple times a day?

Rift is a "blatant carbon copy" you say? No. Try harder next time. Choose your words more thoughtfully, and stop exaggerating.

If you don't like the game, fine. But please stop talking nonsense.

  User Deleted
10/21/12 9:57:06 PM#58
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by cyandk
How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?

Or they are just copying eveyone else. The game is very boring and just a blatant carbon copy of other games.

A blatant carbon copy? Really? Do you even know what a "blatant carbon copy" is? That would be an exact duplicate of something else.

In other words, you're exaggerating. Horribly.

Does it share similar basic game systems with other MMOs? Yes. Does it share a similar quest progression system? Sure. Different races and classed? Yep! An experience point system for leveling? You betcha!

Its mix-and-match soul/skill tree system is certainly not a carbon copy of other games. Similar? In its basic setup and purpose, yes. But in terms of its execution and functionality? No.

In how many other MMOs do you have world events happening over an entire zone, rifts popping up which can lead to full-on invasions of enemies marching on a town to attempt to destroy it? In what other MMO would you be running down a path to see a huge freaking dragon, or some other huge creature and its minions rampaging toward you? In what other MMO can you track and intervene with the progression of these invading forces before they get where they're going?

In how many other MMOs does something like this happen on a zone-wide basis at all, nevermind multiple times a day?

Rift is a "blatant carbon copy" you say? No. Try harder next time. Choose your words more thoughtfully, and stop exaggerating.

If you don't like the game, fine. But please stop talking nonsense.

it was very much near to wow at the beginning but since than it has come a long way . trion has made many changes and the game is very good . hope people come back and see it for themselves 

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1791

10/21/12 10:13:14 PM#59
Originally posted by Purutzil
Originally posted by Tamanous 

2. They do not develop much with original thought. The content they pump out is either based on a model they already perfected (small updates of themed Rift-tech invasions) or an expansion filled with ideas from tech already well tested in other mmos.

Think your thinking of WoW there. 

Granted we can admit they did take ideas they found from other games (face it, its a good practice, WoW is created solely after this taking from EQ1 with virutally all features taken from other gmae) they have added quite a bit of original stuff into the game (as far as I know). The concept of Instant adventure was a new concept that took emphasis in the game, and they have added other little components that weren't used much in MMos, the defense points/turrets taking some inspiration from Tower Defense of sorts not done in other MMos (that I've seen). Much of their other content was expanded upon greatly from other games, such as the Zone Event (Improving upon the Warhammer idea that wasn't really fleshed out to well). Leader board itself was a concept never really handled in MMos that much and was expanded greatly in Rift to make it stand out being different. 

They have A LOT of original thought when it comes to the game, though we can admit a good deal comes from expanding on older concepts or retuning them to fit the game in their own brand. If we are going for complete originality, your not going to find a single game that exists out there that has that. Everything has already been done, we can only hope to change it up or expand upon it more to make it new and exciting.

If I was thinking of Wow I would have said Wow. 

 

You are trying to defend Rift's originality by using the most abused gaming arguments on the internet: the "blame everything on Wow" and the "but all games are a copy if you look far enough back" argument. Sorry but you have completely discredited yourself from any further discussion on this matter.

You stay sassy!

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1230

10/21/12 11:09:07 PM#60
Originally posted by lotaparty
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by cyandk
How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?

Or they are just copying eveyone else. The game is very boring and just a blatant carbon copy of other games.

it was very much near to wow at the beginning but since than it has come a long way . trion has made many changes and the game is very good . hope people come back and see it for themselves 

Fair enough. Though, "very much near" is still a far cry from "blatant carbon copy".

 

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