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News & Features Discussion  » [Preview] The Elder Scrolls Online: The Comprehensive Preview

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245 posts found
  adam_nox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2108

10/22/12 6:41:38 PM#161

I don't get the anti phasing posters.

 

Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW.

 

Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad.  Instead of segregating all players, you segregate some based on the state of their progress.  You allow the world to change for them, making it feel more alive, something not possible without some form of instancing, or it could only be done rarely in big events and only with marginalizing the majority of the playerbase's experience.

 

Phasing is the future.  If there's bad execution, then blame that, but the concept itself is a tremendous step forward in mmos (and I defend it partially because I posted about it as an idea before any game had ever implemented it).   Phasing doesn't have to separate players, in games where it does, that's bad execution, not bad concept.  Players can still see each other while seeing different versions of the gameworld.

  DavisFlight

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

10/22/12 6:43:54 PM#162
Originally posted by adam_nox

I don't get the anti phasing posters.

 

Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW.

 

Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad. 

How about just... not having instancing? There's a thought.

Why is phasing bad? Because it is entirely artificial. It's an illusion that doesn't last. The second you run into another person that sees what you don't see, illusion gone. Your choices don't mean jack shit. It's just an insult. A parlor trick the game expects you to lap up.

Decent games make world changes based on what all the players do, and keep a real virtual world going. Like Asheron's Call. Phasing is... just pathetic.

 

Phasing is the future? Phasing was outdated when it came out in 2006. It is a bad, lazy concept. If anything is the future, it's Dynamic Events, which ACTUALLY change the world.

  gnarlylex

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/10
Posts: 5

10/22/12 6:46:03 PM#163
Originally posted by Lawlmonster
It's hard for me to take this game or the developers seriously when they say things like "it's impossible" in regards to creating an open world game, or that members from their team have all but said they have no problem catering to the themepark necessity all MMO's seem to think they're forced to design under. Some of the features sound like they're starting to head in the right direction, and I think it's pretty obvious that they're doing everything they can to distance themselves from the initial response that the first leak of information regarding TES had stirred. Hopefully for them, they'll continue listening to the feedback from those of the fans who weren't thrilled about what they were doing to the series.

I don't see how they can change course this late in the game.  The stuff they are screwing up is the basic foundation that the game is built on.  If they want to fix it, they need to scrap everything they've done and start from scratch, asking actual ES fans what they want in an online iteration of their favorite franchise.  But even then, if the same people are in charge of the project they will just screw it up again.  This group of people thought an Elder Scrolls online game needs classes, linear questing, holy trinity, and no player housing.  The only hope of a ESO I will even consider playing is if the current game is totally scrapped, and a totally different team is put in charge of the remake.

  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

10/22/12 6:52:58 PM#164
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
Originally posted by Zylaxx

Hey listen, I know this site is known for its sandbox fanbois and hating on anything that seems popular but can we please cut the crap with the hate before it turns others off.  Contrary to what you might believe, the written word has alot of power both for good and for bad and there are alot of players who may come across as jaded, uninformed, and outright anti-"whatever hate your spewing", when at one time they were either on the fence or had no knowledge of the game.  Not to mention this hate has the power to convey wrong messages and creates animosity amongst the readers.

 

Please if you dont like it, say your peace and move on, some of us actually liek the game and for every negative thread I see I have this uncanny knack to prve you wrong and that also isnt healthy.  Let the fans decide how this game comes across.  No one likes a critic!

Go to the games official forums if you want sunshine and rainbows. These forums are for everyone, hater and fanboi alike.

I dont get this attitude.  Say your peace and move along, why must you continue to bash a game because its not what you want. I seriously dont understand this mentality.

So if someone doesn't like the game, they're allowed to say so one time and then that's it? but someone who likes the game can say how much they like it, and in as many threads as they wish, right?

*BEEEEEP* Wrong answer!

Again, official forums tend to be moderated with the "good things about the game are okay to post, bad things are not" moderation you are wishing for.

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

10/22/12 6:56:41 PM#165
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by adam_nox

I don't get the anti phasing posters.

 

Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW.

 

Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad. 

How about just... not having instancing? There's a thought.

Why is phasing bad? Because it is entirely artificial. It's an illusion that doesn't last. The second you run into another person that sees what you don't see, illusion gone. Your choices don't mean jack shit. It's just an insult. A parlor trick the game expects you to lap up.

Decent games make world changes based on what all the players do, and keep a real virtual world going. Like Asheron's Call. Phasing is... just pathetic.

 

Phasing is the future? Phasing was outdated when it came out in 2006. It is a bad, lazy concept. If anything is the future, it's Dynamic Events, which ACTUALLY change the world.

Maybe if they actually changed the world and weren't like GW2's events that recycle every few minutes.

  DavisFlight

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

10/22/12 7:01:21 PM#166
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by adam_nox

I don't get the anti phasing posters.

 

Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW.

 

Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad. 

How about just... not having instancing? There's a thought.

Why is phasing bad? Because it is entirely artificial. It's an illusion that doesn't last. The second you run into another person that sees what you don't see, illusion gone. Your choices don't mean jack shit. It's just an insult. A parlor trick the game expects you to lap up.

Decent games make world changes based on what all the players do, and keep a real virtual world going. Like Asheron's Call. Phasing is... just pathetic.

 

Phasing is the future? Phasing was outdated when it came out in 2006. It is a bad, lazy concept. If anything is the future, it's Dynamic Events, which ACTUALLY change the world.

Maybe if they actually changed the world and weren't like GW2's events that recycle every few minutes.

I'd rather have the world ACTUALLY CHANGE for a few minutes then just have a painted on illusion that no one else can see that literally has no impact on the world whatsoever.

  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

10/22/12 7:04:19 PM#167
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by adam_nox

I don't get the anti phasing posters.

 

Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW.

 

Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad. 

How about just... not having instancing? There's a thought.

Why is phasing bad? Because it is entirely artificial. It's an illusion that doesn't last. The second you run into another person that sees what you don't see, illusion gone. Your choices don't mean jack shit. It's just an insult. A parlor trick the game expects you to lap up.

Decent games make world changes based on what all the players do, and keep a real virtual world going. Like Asheron's Call. Phasing is... just pathetic.

 

Phasing is the future? Phasing was outdated when it came out in 2006. It is a bad, lazy concept. If anything is the future, it's Dynamic Events, which ACTUALLY change the world.

Maybe if they actually changed the world and weren't like GW2's events that recycle every few minutes.

I'd rather have the world ACTUALLY CHANGE for a few minutes then just have a painted on illusion that no one else can see that literally has no impact on the world whatsoever.

Not me. The recycling of events so rapidly in GW2 really made me feel like it was a "ride" in a themepark. The event would end and you could just get back in line and do it again. It was a real immersion killer for me. I am not saying phasing is the future, but I would take that as opposed to DE's in the way they are implemented in GW2.

  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

10/22/12 7:07:05 PM#168

Yay! Another solo focused MMO plus no accountablity megasevers... Yeah...  

 

So will this beat SWTOR's sub rate or is it just going to admit it can't stand as true an MMO and go F2P to start with?

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/22/12 7:12:50 PM#169
Phasing, sharding on mega servers etc.. sucks imo, every game with it its a pain to find your friends, pvp becomes pointless, there's less community (despite more players)

Meh

(i mean this in themeparks where they have to shard the content, its not an issue with giant mega worlds in sandboxes)
  Ackbar

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/04
Posts: 918

its a tarp!

10/22/12 7:14:08 PM#170
Classes? Me no likey classes.

----ITS A TRAP!!!----

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8125

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

10/22/12 7:22:13 PM#171
Originally posted by adam_nox

I don't get the anti phasing posters.

 

Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW.

 

Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad.  Instead of segregating all players, you segregate some based on the state of their progress.  You allow the world to change for them, making it feel more alive, something not possible without some form of instancing, or it could only be done rarely in big events and only with marginalizing the majority of the playerbase's experience.

 

Phasing is the future.  If there's bad execution, then blame that, but the concept itself is a tremendous step forward in mmos (and I defend it partially because I posted about it as an idea before any game had ever implemented it).   Phasing doesn't have to separate players, in games where it does, that's bad execution, not bad concept.  Players can still see each other while seeing different versions of the gameworld.

/signed

I fully agree!

People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8125

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

10/22/12 7:27:48 PM#172
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by adam_nox

I don't get the anti phasing posters.

 

Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW.

 

Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad. 

How about just... not having instancing? There's a thought.

Why is phasing bad? Because it is entirely artificial. It's an illusion that doesn't last. The second you run into another person that sees what you don't see, illusion gone. Your choices don't mean jack shit. It's just an insult. A parlor trick the game expects you to lap up.

Decent games make world changes based on what all the players do, and keep a real virtual world going. Like Asheron's Call. Phasing is... just pathetic.

 

Phasing is the future? Phasing was outdated when it came out in 2006. It is a bad, lazy concept. If anything is the future, it's Dynamic Events, which ACTUALLY change the world.

Ehh?

Ok, a MMO with meaningful story AND without instances AND without phasing is impossibru! And a MMO without story would mean to fall back to year 2000 = no way.

Artificial? You ARE aware a computer game, all is artificial and illusionary? But it is the best of bad choices, so to speak. Absend of all impact is boring and yesterday's new, instancing is meh, so it IS the best solution, unless you have a better idea how to let people experience personal stories with impact?

Asherons Call... yeah which was so succesful. Lol. Making a permanent change based on the majority of all players is just humbug. Sorry.

 

I really think those who critizise phasing haven't thought this really through. For me phasing is one of THE best inventions of MMOs ever!  It's like you tell me you don't love ice cream!! I have a personalized impact which lasts, I can share it with people, it stays and thus is meaningful and it isn't shut away from the game reality by an instance! Insances are 1000 times more artificial, as are the GW2-events which are reset 3 minutes after you done them!

People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  Aeolron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 664

Everyones a mmo vet these days :P

10/22/12 7:34:44 PM#173
This game from the look and sounds of it has Aton of potential ! I am excited for this one for sure , cannot wait till the game launches!
  DavisFlight

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

10/22/12 7:43:45 PM#174
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by adam_nox

I don't get the anti phasing posters.

 

Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW.

 

Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad. 

How about just... not having instancing? There's a thought.

Why is phasing bad? Because it is entirely artificial. It's an illusion that doesn't last. The second you run into another person that sees what you don't see, illusion gone. Your choices don't mean jack shit. It's just an insult. A parlor trick the game expects you to lap up.

Decent games make world changes based on what all the players do, and keep a real virtual world going. Like Asheron's Call. Phasing is... just pathetic.

 

Phasing is the future? Phasing was outdated when it came out in 2006. It is a bad, lazy concept. If anything is the future, it's Dynamic Events, which ACTUALLY change the world.

Ehh?

Ok, a MMO with meaningful story AND without instances AND without phasing is impossibru! Not at all. An MMO can have great story, but it needs to tell it on a massive scale. A singleplayer storyline has absolutely no play in an MMO. It will always be a watered down experience and shouldn't even be attempted. What SHOULD happen is an evolving storyline like in Asheron's Call based on the actions of the players. And a MMO without story would mean to fall back to year 2000 = no way. You mean, the MMO Golden Age?

Artificial? You ARE aware a computer game, all is artificial and illusionary? And the best computer games try their best to make a good illusion. Phasing does not achieve this. But it is the best of bad choices, so to speak. Absend of all impact is boring and yesterday's new, instancing is meh, so it IS the best solution, unless you have a better idea how to let people experience personal stories with impact? Play a singleplayer game. Bam, solved the problem. I don't believe that a house being burned down is really a meaningful "impact". It's just graphics. That's the limit of phasing, it can never make any actual interesting game world changes, they're all just painted on.

Asherons Call... yeah which was so succesful. Lol. It's still going, and it was one of the most played MMOs back in its day, sooo.. Back in the dial up days it had more subs than games like AoC, SWTOR, WAR, and LotRO have. Making a permanent change based on the majority of all players is just humbug. Sorry. What?

 

I really think those who critizise phasing haven't thought this really through. For me phasing is one of THE best inventions of MMOs ever! It's been around for a long time. I don't know why we call it phasing. LotRO "invented it" and just called it instancing.  It's like you tell me you don't love ice cream!! Ice cream tastes good. Phasing breaks up players and ruins immersion.  I have a personalized impact A paint job no one can see is not an impact. which lasts, I can share it with people Not really, no. , it stays and thus is meaningful and it isn't shut away from the game reality by an instance! Phasing is a form of instancing. Insances are 1000 times more artificial, as are the GW2-events which are reset 3 minutes after you done them!

Right, GW2 is artificial... so, losing an event in GW2, which causes certain NPCs not to have certain items.... is LESS of an impact than ...some NPC that you can't see but a friend can?

  mindw0rk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 1380

10/22/12 7:49:14 PM#175
Very interesting preview, thanks. One thing I really hope devs imprement - quality 3D. I play Skyrim in 3D Vision only and it is insanely immersive. Nothing like 2D. Hopefully TES Online will support new tech also
  Laurann

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/04
Posts: 50

10/22/12 7:50:37 PM#176
The Zenimax TESO team are spending tons of money on a long term loser. I don't want more WoW themepark clones - I'm after a hardcore sandpark - light on the park side. They would have the ability to charge my card every month for the next 15 years (just like UO has) - but I'm afraid to say we have what I call a 60 to 90 day loser on our hands, another hyped themepark, another free to play loser. Too bad, as the elder scrolls is my favorite series of all time.
  gnarlylex

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/10
Posts: 5

10/22/12 8:10:36 PM#177
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by adam_nox

I don't get the anti phasing posters.

 

Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW.

 

Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad. 

How about just... not having instancing? There's a thought.

Why is phasing bad? Because it is entirely artificial. It's an illusion that doesn't last. The second you run into another person that sees what you don't see, illusion gone. Your choices don't mean jack shit. It's just an insult. A parlor trick the game expects you to lap up.

Decent games make world changes based on what all the players do, and keep a real virtual world going. Like Asheron's Call. Phasing is... just pathetic.

 

Phasing is the future? Phasing was outdated when it came out in 2006. It is a bad, lazy concept. If anything is the future, it's Dynamic Events, which ACTUALLY change the world.

Ehh?

Ok, a MMO with meaningful story AND without instances AND without phasing is impossibru! And a MMO without story would mean to fall back to year 2000 = no way.

Artificial? You ARE aware a computer game, all is artificial and illusionary? But it is the best of bad choices, so to speak. Absend of all impact is boring and yesterday's new, instancing is meh, so it IS the best solution, unless you have a better idea how to let people experience personal stories with impact?

Asherons Call... yeah which was so succesful. Lol. Making a permanent change based on the majority of all players is just humbug. Sorry.

 

I really think those who critizise phasing haven't thought this really through. For me phasing is one of THE best inventions of MMOs ever!  It's like you tell me you don't love ice cream!! I have a personalized impact which lasts, I can share it with people, it stays and thus is meaningful and it isn't shut away from the game reality by an instance! Insances are 1000 times more artificial, as are the GW2-events which are reset 3 minutes after you done them!

GW2 events don't reset every 3 minutes.  The success or failure of some can have lasting effects, sometimes for days.  Now whether these outcomes mean much to the player other than a waypoint being inconveniently unavailable is something to debate, but your concept of GW2 events is complete wrong and you sound like you've never even played the game.

 

That being said, my initial thoughts on phasing were to be very critical of it.  The idea of copies of the game world have no place in a sandbox MMORPG.  But as details have come more in to focus, its clear this game is not a sandbox MMORPG.  In fact its sounding more and more like the umpteenth themepark clone of a certain game that will remain unnamed.  So in the respect, phasing might actually be a good fit for this game, since player populations will undoubtedly be crammed in tight spaces and without this artificial population thinning, it would feel quite claustrophobic.

 

But lets imagine this game was actually a spiritual successor of the single player fantasy sandbox games from the Elder Scrolls franchise, phasing would be a terrible fit for that.   For sandbox games to work, player actions need to have lasting consequences in a single game world.

  Netspook

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/07
Posts: 1501

10/22/12 8:15:53 PM#178
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by nycplayboy78
WHAT??!! Bill-O you where in the DC Metro and you didn't even reach out to me...YOU ARE DEAD TO ME....We could have grabbed some drinks...This is where my diablolical plan would've kicked in to get Bill-O drunk and have him spill the beans about the game...Evil plan thwarted...STOOPID MMORPG...Next time I will prevail.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

I had no idea you lived there, man!  Or it totally didn't register.  Or I just wanted to avoid having you get me drunk and make me break NDA.  :)

 

What? NDA?

So, let me see if I get this right: you are journalists who were invited, but signed an NDA, then wrote this article? I guess that leaves two options:

1. You broke the NDA (nah...)

2. ZOS is directing what you can talk about, meaning they had to accept the article. Which pretty much explains the hype in it, and only minor issues on the not-so-positive side. Yeah, conspiracy theory, but sometimes even those are true.

About the game:

Not at all hyped about this game before reading this article. Now I know more about phasing and instance layers in this game, and that's not a positive for me. But the worst thing I learned from this article, is about the skills. I guess that when you hit 50, you'll be grinding for years to max out various combat/weapon skills, and that alone is a killer for me.

I went from "Will play when a trial is offered" to "NEVER". Thanks for opening my eyes about how horrible this game is becoming, Bill.

  toddze

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2204

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

10/22/12 8:16:02 PM#179

Just cant get exicited about this at all..........

This article put an overly optimistic spin on this game, like every article its about ass kissing to continue getting beta rights to play. When I was reading this all I could think about is how similiar this writing style was to TOR's articles. Im not talking about gameplay similarities between tor and teso, just the way they over hyped every aspect. I laughed at how they wrote about instanses

"But all of this gameplay goodness would be moot right, if you couldn’t find your friends?  Well don’t worry about that either, because Zenimax has you covered.  There’s only going to be one “Megaserver” when ESO launches. When one “layer” of a zone fills up, it’ll create another and put people into there.  It’s not unlike say, Champions Online or DCUO’s technology.  But ESO goes a few more profound steps further.  You’ll be able to set your preferences so that it groups you into areas with like-minded players"

Seriously? talk about complete and utter BS, call it like it is, its instance with some options., But no look how this article builds up how awesome instances are. What a joke.  I love how they used words like "megaserver" "profound". This is just going to be 1 profound peice of garbage that everyone has done a 100 times over.

What I pulled out of this is it is going to be extremely linear. and its going to be a heavily instanced game. Both of which I can not stand. Every main aspect of this game has been over done to the point that I cant even think about trying to play it. 

Well elder scroll fans enjoy getting your money stolen yet again by a company cashing in on a name alone.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

10/22/12 8:30:35 PM#180
Originally posted by DavisFlight


 

It's been around for a long time. I don't know why we call it phasing. LotRO "invented it" and just called it instancing.

A bit of correction: Funcom invented "instancing" in 2001 for their mmo Anarchy Online. They created the tech to use for their random mission generators ( mission terminals ) and it went on from there.

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