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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Easy has to go...who asked for easy ? ( Poll )

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181 posts found
  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2647

 
OP  10/20/12 12:09:15 AM#1

Blizzard made WoW easy.  Let me ask you. Do you think mmo players really asked for it ?

My guess !!!.....Blizzard and other Developers are acting on their own on this subject TO PUSH EXPANTIONS. I don't think kids are complaining at all.....It's just a marketing trick.

 

We have no hart-pumping content at all in mmo's any more. Some would call this " Old School " but hard content has nothing to do with outdated content.  We just have easy and I really don't think anyone is asking for it.

 

 

Dynamic Events and Rifts - For me they are getting old already. For me this is forced game play,

Auto grouping - Same as above, its getting old already. This makes for solo play with others on your screen.

Personal story - Anything story makes an mmo not an mmo. We have Skyrim for that.

Cool little video clips - Let me ask you. With a group of five new found friends, just entering a Dungeon, are you all really enjoying this crap ?.....Are you really sitting back relaxing for five minutes when you have a group ready to go ?

 

 

Why does hard = old school.  Who even named it that ?.......What does exploring then finding a Keep, cave, or hole in the ground, with extreamly hard content inside have to do with old school. Remember when stuff like this was not even advertised. You just found it on your own.  Players would find it and using word-of-mouth, places like this would become a hot spot. Now it's a major feature. 

I guess you have to be 50 and up to enjoy a hard, community driven mmo with a lot of un-advertised, un-knownes. I like an mmo that you better have a large friends list or a good strong guild if your even to think about leaving a popular quest hub. But then I'm 49 years old.

It's my opinion but Blizzards Titin project, and SOE's EQ Next is gonna be crap right out of the gate !....Easy, auto-feature, solo crap. Just another 30 day video game with others on the screen.

What do you like ? pick one

Easy
Hard
Let me see the poll
(login to vote)
  User Deleted
10/20/12 12:12:12 AM#2
The only 'heart pumping' excitement an MMO has ever given me is when faced with fighting against another player.  PvE combat can be fun, but an MMO really has never been all that difficult to do once the strategy is learned.  It's more of a puzzle than a skill challenge.  Against other players - that's excitement imho.
  aphydork

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/12
Posts: 133

10/20/12 12:17:02 AM#3
Beaten the Heroic 25-man raids in MoP already, huh?
  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2647

 
OP  10/20/12 12:17:07 AM#4
Originally posted by Roxtarr
The only 'heart pumping' excitement an MMO has ever given me is when faced with fighting against another player.  PvE combat can be fun, but an MMO really has never been all that difficult to do once the strategy is learned.  It's more of a puzzle than a skill challenge.  Against other players - that's excitement imho.

Thanks, Good topic :

It's easy once stratagy is learned !!!!.......Stratagy is now looked at as old school.

  stux

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 469

10/20/12 12:23:29 AM#5

Macroing and third party programs made it the norm.

 

I remember Asheron's Call was awesome.  It was a grind to level in the game.  It was hard to find quest locations and items you wanted.  But you know it was fun like that imo.

 

 Then people starting macro and a few people reached cap fast then some more then word got out that a hard full of people were jus afk macroing for xp.

 

Then decal and third party programs became the norm with everyone afk macroing, botting, etc. and game fell apart for those didn't do.

 

There is no way of making a hard core old school grind game when third party programs and afk macroing  take over the old school players can't keep up without it get tired and leave.

 

The same thing happened in Darkfall.  So, many people macroing or glitched to max out characters then stopped the people who weren't.  A lot of people left some stayed and joined the macroes.  A percentage ground through it but a lot left due to it.  Eventually the developed greatly lower the character grind and it will probably help the games population imo.

 

Once they took character grind out, simplified quests by leading you around with the map everything just snow balled into easy mode.

 

But things like decal in asheron's call and other third party programs that made the games much easier started to take over developers just built them into the games.

  FelixMajor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/27/07
Posts: 563

10/20/12 12:28:34 AM#6

I don't know man, game are becoming more streamlined and content more accesible.  I wouldn't say easy.

 

If you ask me, the mop content is tougher than the cata content in wow.

 

There was a period of time though where little brats and forum trolls just complained and bitched and whined, they want want want want want and they want it NOW, so developers started implementing tools and systems in games to allow contenet to be more accesible to players who don't want to spend wack amount of hours to achieve these things.  In the long run though, which these whiners didn't understand at the time was that these systems and tools would actually dilute the game and "dumb" it down.

 

Honestly, developers know what they are doing, and sometimes they shouldn't listen to what people whine about.  They gotta know when people are being shitheaded brats, and they have to know when something is actually a great idea.  Also, gamers, alike, need to chill the fuck out and stop bitching and complaining...so many bratty fuckin expectations from people these days.

Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  stux

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 469

10/20/12 12:40:24 AM#7

I think part of it is a lot of people dont' have the time/attention span/patience any more to figure shit out on thier own.

 

They want playing the game to be easy and to be led around.

 

It is also A LOT more competitive then it used to be any everyone wants the best of everything to compete.  Therefore, they want it to be easy to get the best gear and max level but with some new cookie always dangling in front to keep them coming back.

 

Also, information travels SO much faster now.  Quests, skills, items, etc. all get posted on some website some place almost as soon as any new game gets made and new content gets added.  It is hard to keep the cat in the bag any more with how fast infromation travels.

 

Once people see that new quest and new items they want to complete that quest and have that item(s) and notch more the the virtual belt.

But a lot of poeple don't have the time and/or patience to find it on thier own or figure out the quest without it being dumbed down or a walk through.

Plues, death in games is MUCH easier then when i started in mmos.

In AC when you died you lost some random items from your character and bag with NO notation as to where it was.  It fell on the ground for anyone to pickup and if you didn't get back in a certain amount of time it was just gone (can't recal how much but it was over an hour).  These days people would cry about that until it got patched out.  One of the reason most gamers have a hard time with DFO.

  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2647

 
OP  10/20/12 12:50:27 AM#8

Well, part of my point is, I don't think players are really asking for easy as Blizzards devs are telling us.

It's to sell expantions faster.....I really don't think 5 year olds are telling mom to call Blizzard to ease up !!

 

Marketing !!!!!!

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4847

10/20/12 12:53:04 AM#9

Said thing is, regardless of what this post ends up saying, people continue to reinforce an easy playstyle en masse.

To use a current example, look at what happened w/ GW2's dungeons. While some may think they aren't that difficult (and I would be one of them), there's been a huge outcry from players that they are too difficult, and that you die way too much in the dungeons.

For the average gamer, challenging gameplay has been replaced by the desire to feel powerful. Most people aren't okay with feeling weak in a video game, they want to feel like an unstoppable badass even if it means the content becomes trivial.

You can see this trend outside of MMOs too. Look at games like Devil May Cry, or God of War. Hugely popular, but not known for being difficult games. The same is known in the MMO-sphere. People want the biggest, baddest gear, so they can feel powerful, and stomp noobz.

As much as I wish difficult games were more common, there is a reason they are still a niche. This will remain so as long as enough people are more interested in feeling badass, than being challenged.

  Reklaw

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

10/20/12 1:06:39 AM#10
Originally posted by aesperus

Said thing is, regardless of what this post ends up saying, people continue to reinforce an easy playstyle en masse.

To use a current example, look at what happened w/ GW2's dungeons. While some may think they aren't that difficult (and I would be one of them), there's been a huge outcry from players that they are too difficult, and that you die way too much in the dungeons.

For the average gamer, challenging gameplay has been replaced by the desire to feel powerful. Most people aren't okay with feeling weak in a video game, they want to feel like an unstoppable badass even if it means the content becomes trivial.

You can see this trend outside of MMOs too. Look at games like Devil May Cry, or God of War. Hugely popular, but not known for being difficult games. The same is known in the MMO-sphere. People want the biggest, baddest gear, so they can feel powerful, and stomp noobz.

As much as I wish difficult games were more common, there is a reason they are still a niche. This will remain so as long as enough people are more interested in feeling badass, than being challenged.

+1

Kinda am geussing OP hasn't been around that long with this genre and might have missed all the outcry's in old school MMORPG about them being to complex, to hard...etc.....

So OP yes the new majority of people in this genre did in fact ask for more easy, especially at the time when internet became more mainstream.

  User Deleted
10/20/12 1:13:04 AM#11
Welcome to mmorpg.com, home of the nichiest niche gamers on the planet.
  zethcarn

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/04
Posts: 1564

10/20/12 1:14:59 AM#12

At the end of the Cataclysm expansion, only 22% of all guilds had beat Heroic Dragon Soul.  Yep, it was so easy anyone can do it, right?  

/end sarcasm

  toddze

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2203

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

10/20/12 1:15:19 AM#13
Majoity of people do not like challeneges, this is an instant gratification era we are living in now, its not just in games either. no one wants to put effort into anything anymore, its all gimmie, gimmie, gimmie.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  aphydork

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/12
Posts: 133

10/20/12 1:21:25 AM#14

You have to take into account that there's a huge discrepancy between the gamers that have been playing video games all their lives--before it was cool--and have played most every MMO and major game to date and MMO players that started playing games when WoW became mainstream.

The difference between the two can be as significant as the difference between a progamer and yourself. So when developers balance, they need to take into account a large range of skill levels.

You might argue that the new gamers just need to get as good as you, but... really, it's almost like asking a beginner to tennis to just get as good as a player who started playing at the age of 4. I mean, you could, but what you're really saying is, "Deal with it," which will more likely than not just make the less involved players quit.

WoW seems to have a decent system going in that there are multiple difficulty levels, and unless you have already beaten the latest heroic 25-man raid, you can't say WoW is easymode. You're just jumping on the "WoW is EZ" bandwagon. Though, it might be. I can't say for certain. I've never experienced it.

  User Deleted
10/20/12 1:31:59 AM#15

2 things, i like having decent armor and weapons from crafting. Does that make me an easy care bear perhaps or maybe I'm not because I'm not asking for legendaries to be easy. hmmm

second, I like a pve challenge and there are quite a few in the game i play. Try soloing a champion in armor ten levels lower then you underwater combat with no abilities to heal you accept 1. that's a challenge. Done that a couple of times. very exciting.

so really, it's a matter of perspective. WoW however i will never return to and not because it's easy but because it's the same boring design we've seen in EQ, AoC, LOTRO, SWTOR etc etc etc...the endless quest for gear, it's basically a fashion show lobby game. Sorry if i offend but I'm agreeing with the OP on how bad it is.

I wish you did have another selection in the voting tho, likes a challenge but prefers PVE challenges. That would have been great.

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 762

10/20/12 1:40:24 AM#16
Originally posted by Roxtarr
The only 'heart pumping' excitement an MMO has ever given me is when faced with fighting against another player.  PvE combat can be fun, but an MMO really has never been all that difficult to do once the strategy is learned.  It's more of a puzzle than a skill challenge.  Against other players - that's excitement imho.

Fighting a world notorious monster for over an hour with a group of 6 people and barely making it had my heart pumping.  PvP is usually over in a couple minutes.  My heart doesn't even start

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 762

10/20/12 1:48:38 AM#17
Originally posted by toddze
Majoity of people do not like challeneges, this is an instant gratification era we are living in now, its not just in games either. no one wants to put effort into anything anymore, its all gimmie, gimmie, gimmie.

For sure.  Aesperus is correct too.  The games are made for [mod edit] masses who want nothing more than to feel powerful and they turn to MMOs where they can show off their gear, challenge people to PvP, and then talk trash to them. If they can't run around killing everything in sight then they wont play it. I can't believe there is no a single MMO where you do something besides this.  MMOs are now synonymous with running around and killing everything in sight......because you're such a badass right from the get go.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3217

10/20/12 1:53:09 AM#18
Originally posted by aphydork
Beaten the Heroic 25-man raids in MoP already, huh?

+1

 

MoP raids are actually kinda hard, about half the bosses are pretty hard, and a few bosses in heroic are omgbbqsauceandlazerzpewpewpew hard lol.

  gordiflu

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 764

10/20/12 4:32:51 AM#19
Originally posted by aphydork
Beaten the Heroic 25-man raids in MoP already, huh?

It used to take months before the latest raid boss was downed for the first time.

Nowadays sometimes it does not even take a week.

  IAmMMO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/08
Posts: 1329

10/20/12 4:34:39 AM#20
The Cross plat form generation did. They couldn't deal with the depth of PC games. Now gaming is made for the plebs and their consoles.
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