MMO's are going to have to go to a FTP / BTP model otherwise they won't survive.

In 2001 I started playing MMO's and I happily paid a sub due to the lack of MMO's out there.  Not to mention virtually no competition from console or PC.  (Wii, smartphones, hand held devices didn't even exist!)

In today's market there are:

- consoles

- PC single player games like Skyrim

- Hand held devices

- dozens of MMO's

- Wii

- Flash games on Face book

- Smart phones / iPad

There are multiple ways for a gamer to get a fix.  In the past 3 years I have seen a trend of MMO's being packed for 3 months at launch then dying a quick death.  Players won't commit to an MMO long term if there is a sub.  There is always a new MMO on the horizon or a new console or game being released.

An MMO needs a lot of population or by its very nature it dies badly.  FTP / BTP is the only model that will work going forward and if companies insist on sticking with a sub model, then they have literally set themselves up to fail.

My thread isn't a support thread for FTP / BTP btw.  Its about the changing gaming market and how subs are not justifiable anymore.

as long as there's no cash shop idc what model they have.

that's my only condition: no cash shop. rest is up to them.

Making the same crappy MMO experience over and over again is an outdated model.

I and many others have no problem paying a sub for a good game, but for the last several years, there have not been any.

All that has been released is: 1. Themepark Clones and 2. 3rd rate indie pseudo sandboxes.

I would rather pay a straight up sub, then play half a game with the freemium models, or get nickled and dimed to death with most F2P implementations.

And so would a lot of others.

In fact, compared to most of the "baggage" that comes with F2P titles, I would rather play a game with a sub.

The problem is not the payment model, it is that companies have been putting out shit games, that are the same damn MMO gameplay, "with a twist". Or are utter indie shit.

That is the problem.

There are multiple ways for a gamer to get a fix.

I alway's had this long before MMORPG's, mainly because I am a gamer that enjoy's different game genre's, especially on pc. Don't care for console's, PS2 being the last I had and havn't touched that since the original Medal of Honor...which was what 1999? Don't care for facebook type of games.

I do not consider a sub-fee being a outdated model. But I do understand that I aint in the majority of today's generation of new people into games.

I personaly feel that a F2P game "could" eventually cost more to people then a loosy small subfee.

Still not sure why it seems so hard to pay such small amount per month for allot of people

Originally posted by Reklaw

Still not sure why it seems so hard to pay such small amount per month for allot of people

it's ideologic. the word 'free' is the selling point of f2p. and, well...if its not free afterall then there's no selling point so we're not interested.

we're just not seeing that 'free' part when they're saying "cant do that. that needs that item from the store". it feels very contradictory.

EA have the theory that TOR is a great game and that it is the payment model that is its problem.

I however think that the problem is the game itself, a good game will sell no matter the payment model and frankly have games that moved not made the huge impact that DDO and LOTRO did a few years back.

DDO did proved that there is room for a few good western F2P games, no doubt about that  but the problem with most MMOs is hardly how people pay for them, it is more that most of them have copied the mechanics from Wow but forgot to copy Wows coding and bugcrushing.

A great game can be P2P, B2P, F2P or freemium, it will get many players no matter what. A crap game might be hold on lifesupport easier as F2P but most of those players will be temporary players who never even reach levelcap (or skillcap).

I'd rather pay a sub than deal with cash shops or be gimped (SWTOR I'm looking at you!).

It's a convenience issue. I don't want to stress over what I'm missing and break immersion with buying crap from a cash shop just to play the game.

A sub is an "all you can eat" equivalent in gaming, and how is that NOT better than the alternative? Seriously.

Originally posted by Loke666

EA have the theory that TOR is a great game and that it is the payment model that is its problem.

I however think that the problem is the game itself, a good game will sell no matter the payment model and frankly have games that moved not made the huge impact that DDO and LOTRO did a few years back.

DDO did proved that there is room for a few good western F2P games, no doubt about that  but the problem with most MMOs is hardly how people pay for them, it is more that most of them have copied the mechanics from Wow but forgot to copy Wows coding and bugcrushing.

A great game can be P2P, B2P, F2P or freemium, it will get many players no matter what. A crap game might be hold on lifesupport easier as F2P but most of those players will be temporary players who never even reach levelcap (or skillcap).

I am wondering do you Loke666 truly feel SWtOR is a bad game or.....

do you feel SWtOR is a bad MMORPG?

I am asking this because I really am having fun with SWtOR the game. But if I look at it as if it's a MMORPG then it truly fails for me.

Originally posted by Burntvet

Making the same crappy MMO experience over and over again is an outdated model.

I and many others have no problem paying a sub for a good game, but for the last several years, there have not been any.

All that has been released is: 1. Themepark Clones and 2. 3rd rate indie pseudo sandboxes.

 

I would rather pay a straight up sub, then play half a game with the freemium models, or get nickled and dimed to death with most F2P implementations.

And so would a lot of others.

In fact, compared to most of the "baggage" that comes with F2P titles, I would rather play a game with a sub.

 

The problem is not the payment model, it is that companies have been putting out shit games, that are the same damn MMO gameplay, "with a twist". Or are utter indie shit.

That is the problem.

 

 

Well said, that's exactly the problem. I'd gladly pay a subscription fee for a good mmo.

I don't see why the opposition to a Cash Shop.  If a cash shop is done right it is as exciting as the game itself.  How many times have I played next to a Big Guy dressed in wedding attire?  It was hilarious.  Actually, a game can really add a lot of comedy thru a Cash Shop.  Unusual pets both beautiful and ridiculous.  My only problem is they never sell ENOUGH junk!  

More Cash Shop!  More more more!!!

I disagree.

Paying subs is not outdated. Companies taking advantage of subscription payers by not adding new content of equal value to the subscription is the outdated model.

I believe some companies give you your money's worth. I think Trion does a good job of this.

Originally posted by Jemcrystal

 

I don't see why the opposition to a Cash Shop.  If a cash shop is done right it is as exciting as the game itself.  How many times have I played next to a Big Guy dressed in wedding attire?  It was hilarious.  Actually, a game can really add a lot of comedy thru a Cash Shop.  Unusual pets both beautiful and ridiculous.  My only problem is they never sell ENOUGH junk!  

 

More Cash Shop!  More more more!!!

I kind of agree, not necessarily with more cash shops but with the junk fluff stuff.  I played FE both on sub and tried with f2p, there was nothing in the cash shop that I wanted.  There were some fairly ugly dogs, mounts that weren't better than what I could craft either in stats or looks, some crappy looking outfits, or shave 2 seconds off harvesting.  I wouldn't have minded paying for a nice looking horse, or a husky dog or a cool looking red leather jacket, but there was just nothing.

I prefer the subscription model.  I have found it to be a hassle to purchase what I need off of the cash shops, I would rather just have access to everything with a subscription than having to wave my credit card around in the air all the time.

Also, this breaks immersion for me too.  I fear that next, we will be seeing commercial advertisements in game.  I already get tired of watching commercials in youtube, I would dislike having to watch commercials in my video game too. 

just my 2 cents

Originally posted by Loke666

EA have the theory that TOR is a great game and that it is the payment model that is its problem.

I however think that the problem is the game itself, a good game will sell no matter the payment model and frankly have games that moved not made the huge impact that DDO and LOTRO did a few years back.

DDO did proved that there is room for a few good western F2P games, no doubt about that  but the problem with most MMOs is hardly how people pay for them, it is more that most of them have copied the mechanics from Wow but forgot to copy Wows coding and bugcrushing.

A great game can be P2P, B2P, F2P or freemium, it will get many players no matter what. A crap game might be hold on lifesupport easier as F2P but most of those players will be temporary players who never even reach levelcap (or skillcap).

EA will saying anything not to take the fall for TOR's failure. A scumbag company of the highest order and a good reason why they are the most hate corporation in America.

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Loke666

EA have the theory that TOR is a great game and that it is the payment model that is its problem.

I however think that the problem is the game itself, a good game will sell no matter the payment model and frankly have games that moved not made the huge impact that DDO and LOTRO did a few years back.

DDO did proved that there is room for a few good western F2P games, no doubt about that  but the problem with most MMOs is hardly how people pay for them, it is more that most of them have copied the mechanics from Wow but forgot to copy Wows coding and bugcrushing.

A great game can be P2P, B2P, F2P or freemium, it will get many players no matter what. A crap game might be hold on lifesupport easier as F2P but most of those players will be temporary players who never even reach levelcap (or skillcap).

EA will saying anything not to take the fall for TOR's failure. A scumbag company of the highest order and a good reason why they are the most hate corporation in America.

Aye, they tried to say the reason player numbers dropped off so bad was because people said they'd play it if it didn't have a sub. What they really said was It's not worth a subscription fee...Big difference, heeh.