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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Smedley: "EverQuest Next will be the world's largest sandbox-style MMO ever made"

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872 posts found
  Hrimnir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1075

10/30/12 9:57:40 PM#621
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Anyone who thinks EQNext is going to be built with PvP at the forefront is dreaming. Yeah it will have a great PvP system but EQ has always and will always be a PVE mmo at it's core.

This ^

 

I've been laughing my ass off with this thread and all the pvp dudes speculating and thinking of their perfect little PVP mmo.

EQ never has and never will be designed with PVP as a major focus.  Just because Smed is a fan of EVE doesn't mean that he is talking about PVP.  What is talking about is the emergent gameplay mechanics.  Basically the players making the content so to speak.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1131

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

10/30/12 10:08:54 PM#622
Originally posted by Ripostethis
Not enough funding to make it a big theme park mmo like Everquest 2 was. Will be something like GW2 , sounds like it will suck and be boring if you are into PVE, but will be based on pvp.

One thing we all know is that Smedly hasn't much interest in pvp.  Afterthought at best...but hey, I wish them luck.

  pvpirl

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/11
Posts: 171

10/30/12 10:23:40 PM#623

That is contrary to what Smed has stated his intent was, for whatever that is worth.

  CalmOceans

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1807

10/31/12 12:40:41 AM#624

It's not that Smedley is not interested in PVP I think, I mean planetside 2 is "PVP" in a way, it's just that EQ was meant to be PVE from the start. If you look at the James Hall (sp?) video of Everquest, Smedley mentions "UO was PVP so we wanted to do PVE".  

Anyone thinking EQNext is going to be some PVP game is going to be really disappointed, sure there might be some PVP servers, and even the developers might support PVP but the community itself will enforce PVE and demand PVE when they want, the community will ask for pure PVE servers, or it will not be a successful game. EQ is PVE.

I don't know what it's like in EQ2 but this is what EQ is like now, it's not just a smaller majority of players that are PVE like in WoW, no EQ is more like a PVE stronghold where 99% of the players are PVE purists.

 

All these PVE servers are not PVE with PVP battlegrounds or something, no they are 100% pure PVE servers.

 

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

10/31/12 1:01:25 AM#625
DAoC had the best mix of PvP and PvE to date. EQNext would be stupid not to try to appeal to both audiences. Grinding for new gear has a lot more meaning when you can use that gear on another player.
  Sora2810

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 566

10/31/12 1:02:45 AM#626
Originally posted by DSWBeef
I will love them if its true. But if it isnt this quote will kill them.

Same here. This is the guys who did create Vanguard and SWG before maiming them to a pulp; maybe they went back to their roots.

Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  CalmOceans

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1807

10/31/12 1:04:58 AM#627

Grinding for new gear has a lot more meaning when you can use that gear on another player.

Using PVE gear in PVP doesn't work in Everquest, the few people who chose PVP in EQ had to deal with it being completely unbalanced since day 1. In a game where people group to progress, some classes will be weaker than others, and the mob AC and player ATK easily mess up PVP. EQ PVP servers have always been unbalanced because of it. That's why WoW uses PVP gear I believe.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2622

110100100

10/31/12 1:10:25 AM#628


Originally posted by CalmOceans
It's not that Smedley is not interested in PVP I think, I mean planetside 2 is "PVP" in a way, it's just that EQ was meant to be PVE from the start. If you look at the James Hall (sp?) video of Everquest, Smedley mentions "UO was PVP so we wanted to do PVE".  

Anyone thinking EQNext is going to be some PVP game is going to be really disappointed, sure there might be some PVP servers, and even the developers might support PVP but the community itself will enforce PVE and demand PVE when they want, the community will ask for pure PVE servers, or it will not be a successful game. EQ is PVE.

I don't know what it's like in EQ2 but this is what EQ is like now, it's not just a smaller majority of players that are PVE like in WoW, no EQ is more like a PVE stronghold where 99% of the players are PVE purists.

 

All these PVE servers are not PVE with PVP battlegrounds or something, no they are 100% pure PVE servers.

 


agreed on all points, but EQ used to have more pvp servers when it was a popular game.

like you said this isn't going to be a FFA pure sandbox game, everyone better just get that out of their head now.

there will be raiding in this game, that tells us a lot right there.


  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2622

110100100

10/31/12 1:20:39 AM#629


Originally posted by CalmOceans

Grinding for new gear has a lot more meaning when you can use that gear on another player.
Using PVE gear in PVP doesn't work in Everquest, the few people who chose PVP in EQ had to deal with it being completely unbalanced since day 1. In a game where people group to progress, some classes will be weaker than others, and the mob AC and player ATK easily mess up PVP. EQ PVP servers have always been unbalanced because of it. That's why WoW uses PVP gear I believe.

the main reason pvp was so unblallanced was because of the gear. POT geared players were unstoppable and could take out a full group also decent geared players.

their resists were so high even with unresistible malos you still couldn't land anything on them.

when you did their regen and HP was so high it didn't even matter. these are things they could adjust in anticipation of the pvp in their game.

they could make the pvp a lot better in this game without taking away from the pve.

this will likely be a group focused pve game like EQ is known for,so they really don't need to balance it if its medium - large scale pvp.

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

10/31/12 5:30:29 AM#630
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Anyone who thinks EQNext is going to be built with PvP at the forefront is dreaming. Yeah it will have a great PvP system but EQ has always and will always be a PVE mmo at it's core.

This ^

 

I've been laughing my ass off with this thread and all the pvp dudes speculating and thinking of their perfect little PVP mmo.

EQ never has and never will be designed with PVP as a major focus.  Just because Smed is a fan of EVE doesn't mean that he is talking about PVP.  What is talking about is the emergent gameplay mechanics.  Basically the players making the content so to speak.

 im fine either way, but i think one of us is going to to have to make a concession about pvp. Pvp is a large part of players making their own content. See the mission generator for planetside 2.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3201

"A very special kind of stupidity"

10/31/12 6:23:56 AM#631
Originally posted by pvpirl

That is contrary to what Smed has stated his intent was, for whatever that is worth.

 

It's not impossible that he might try and square the circle the same way CCP did with EVE, and put in some kind of an equivalent of hi-sec/lo-sec/0.0 into EQN. Conceptually speaking, that could be very doable in a fantasy setting; make the NPC cities and their immediate surroundings into "voluntary PvP only" zones; allow looser rules of engagement - maybe faction-based PvP? - in the "settled areas", and full on FFA in the "wildland" areas. As long as there's plenty of decent gameplay in all 3 zones you're good to go and everyone can have what they want.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

10/31/12 6:42:17 AM#632
Originally posted by CalmOceans

It's not that Smedley is not interested in PVP I think, I mean planetside 2 is "PVP" in a way, it's just that EQ was meant to be PVE from the start. If you look at the James Hall (sp?) video of Everquest, Smedley mentions "UO was PVP so we wanted to do PVE".  

Anyone thinking EQNext is going to be some PVP game is going to be really disappointed, sure there might be some PVP servers, and even the developers might support PVP but the community itself will enforce PVE and demand PVE when they want, the community will ask for pure PVE servers, or it will not be a successful game. EQ is PVE.

I don't know what it's like in EQ2 but this is what EQ is like now, it's not just a smaller majority of players that are PVE like in WoW, no EQ is more like a PVE stronghold where 99% of the players are PVE purists.

 

All these PVE servers are not PVE with PVP battlegrounds or something, no they are 100% pure PVE servers.

 

+1

Anyone who thinks EQNext is going to have PvP at the forefront might as well bow out now. Yes it will have PvP and it might be okay but don't think for one moment that PvP comes before PVE.

EQ is and has always been a PVE MMO first and foremost, that will never change.

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

10/31/12 6:48:32 AM#633
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by rungard
 

 This is accurate. I dont agree than you cant use a class system in a sandbox, but eq certainly has a skill based system underneath its levelling system. eq had soo much fun stuff that no one talks about. That stuff was the magic. Not the levels and not the raids. Weve seen what magic is created from levels and raids.

lets see what the other magic can do.

I've found the bit in orange to be true of most MMOs I've played.

It's always baffled me when people would call Final Fantasy XI (pre-Abyssea) "nothing but a level grind to end-game". They'd complain about doing nothing but grinding on mobs all the time. There were, when I stopped playing, 23+ different activities to participate in. Each had their own content, rules, rewards and requirements, and they were spread out across many levels, not just "high level".

So, *I* knew the game offered far more than just "grinding levels" and "end-game raiding". The problem is, players coming into the game had this idea firmly stuck in their head that "MMOs = grinding to level cap, then raiding endlessly". This has been the case for pretty much every new MMO to come out for the last 7 years or so.

The stranger part is, they'd complain about it. They'd complain about the games being nothing but an endless level grind, and how they were sick of it. Thing is, the game was like that for them because all they spent their time doing was grinding levels. But then when you'd point out "well, you know, there's all these 20+ other activities you could also do... You don't have to spend all your time grinding xp", you'd get your head bitten off with some tirade about how "all that other content is useless because it doesn't help you level faster and the rewards aren't worth it". I'd be told, quite firmly, that MMOs were all about end game and that getting there as efficiently as possible was all that mattered. All that other content was "useless filler".

Yet they complained about it.

It became apparent to me a long time ago now that players are demonstrably their own worst enemies. The one thing they claim to hate is the one thing they'll argue vehemently that "the games are all about", to the exclusion of almost anything else.

Funniest thing (in a sad way) is, they'd eventually get burned out, fed up and move on to another MMO - to do exactly the same thing: grinding levels non-stop and doing only content that helped them level faster or got them "the best rewards". And once again, they'd blame the devs/game for making the game "nothing but an endless grind-fest", even though there was all this other stuff to do.

It was the classic definition of insanity: Doing the same thing repeatedly, and expecting a different result.

And it still happens to this day. The obvious cause of their frustration is staring them in the face, yet they never see it. Or maybe they do, but in their conceit, believe they've got it right and the devs have it all wrong; that they know what the game is "all about" more than those "clueless devs" who spent years designing and developing it in the first place.

Just look at some of the most common questions people ask when they're just starting a game, or even just interested in checking it out: "How much end game is there?" and "How long does it take to get to level cap?". They haven't even launched the game for the first time yet, and they're already concerned about end game? Really?

I think that's the biggest hurdle Smed and SOE have to contend with. I'm sure they can come up with some really interesting concepts/ideas. But until MMO gamers are willing to take a step back, re-evaluate their own preferences and proclivities and are willing to unchain themselves from their own treadmill... it's going to be an uphill battle. I have no real expectations of that happening. MMO gamers, many of them, are far too conceited and set in their ways to ever see what they're doing as being the problem. Far easier to blame those "clueless devs who don't know how to make a MMO". 

I think the best hope SOE and Smed have is to settle on the fact that they aren't going to attract a huge, WoW-like fan-base, that the game will likely end up with a smaller, but solid and loyal playerbase that will stick with them and grow steadily over the years - like Eve Online did.

Smed says they want to make a MMO that lasts 15 years. That longevity won't be supported by the fly-by-night, "game of the month" MMO hoppers. It will be supported by the long-term players who really dig in, plant roots, and call the Norrath of EQNext "home" for the long term. He just has to stick to the vision they have for the game, and not cave into trying to appeal more to the typical "themepark crowd" who just want more of the same.

If Smed create a WORLD with time progression system this game can perfecty lasts 15 years+

  pvpirl

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/11
Posts: 171

10/31/12 8:23:59 AM#634

so, I take it noone wants to play on the pvp server with me? ;)

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1040

10/31/12 8:33:25 AM#635
Originally posted by pvpirl

so, I take it noone wants to play on the pvp server with me? ;)

Ill most definetly be playing on the PvP server pref team based one over FFA if there one.

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

10/31/12 10:24:48 AM#636
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by CalmOceans

It's not that Smedley is not interested in PVP I think, I mean planetside 2 is "PVP" in a way, it's just that EQ was meant to be PVE from the start. If you look at the James Hall (sp?) video of Everquest, Smedley mentions "UO was PVP so we wanted to do PVE".  

Anyone thinking EQNext is going to be some PVP game is going to be really disappointed, sure there might be some PVP servers, and even the developers might support PVP but the community itself will enforce PVE and demand PVE when they want, the community will ask for pure PVE servers, or it will not be a successful game. EQ is PVE.

I don't know what it's like in EQ2 but this is what EQ is like now, it's not just a smaller majority of players that are PVE like in WoW, no EQ is more like a PVE stronghold where 99% of the players are PVE purists.

 

All these PVE servers are not PVE with PVP battlegrounds or something, no they are 100% pure PVE servers.

 

+1

Anyone who thinks EQNext is going to have PvP at the forefront might as well bow out now. Yes it will have PvP and it might be okay but don't think for one moment that PvP comes before PVE.

EQ is and has always been a PVE MMO first and foremost, that will never change.

 i would expect a far more integrated game that you might believe.

As far as your server numbers..ok so thats  20,000 players. Show me the other 2 million 480 thousand required.

 

 

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3201

"A very special kind of stupidity"

10/31/12 11:28:10 AM#637
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by CalmOceans

It's not that Smedley is not interested in PVP I think, I mean planetside 2 is "PVP" in a way, it's just that EQ was meant to be PVE from the start. If you look at the James Hall (sp?) video of Everquest, Smedley mentions "UO was PVP so we wanted to do PVE".  

Anyone thinking EQNext is going to be some PVP game is going to be really disappointed, sure there might be some PVP servers, and even the developers might support PVP but the community itself will enforce PVE and demand PVE when they want, the community will ask for pure PVE servers, or it will not be a successful game. EQ is PVE.

I don't know what it's like in EQ2 but this is what EQ is like now, it's not just a smaller majority of players that are PVE like in WoW, no EQ is more like a PVE stronghold where 99% of the players are PVE purists.

 

All these PVE servers are not PVE with PVP battlegrounds or something, no they are 100% pure PVE servers.

 

+1

Anyone who thinks EQNext is going to have PvP at the forefront might as well bow out now. Yes it will have PvP and it might be okay but don't think for one moment that PvP comes before PVE.

EQ is and has always been a PVE MMO first and foremost, that will never change.

 

Didn't Smedley specifically say that they were looking to make something that wasn't "Everquest III" but break out into a new direction? I'm not saying that EQN will be all FFA everywhere, but at the same time I wouldn't place too much faith in precedents set by previous iterations.

The fact is, we just don't know. All we have are his hints, plus an unambiguous statement that they're going in a new direction from the old everquests.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

10/31/12 11:34:35 AM#638
Originally posted by Malcanis
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by CalmOceans

It's not that Smedley is not interested in PVP I think, I mean planetside 2 is "PVP" in a way, it's just that EQ was meant to be PVE from the start. If you look at the James Hall (sp?) video of Everquest, Smedley mentions "UO was PVP so we wanted to do PVE".  

Anyone thinking EQNext is going to be some PVP game is going to be really disappointed, sure there might be some PVP servers, and even the developers might support PVP but the community itself will enforce PVE and demand PVE when they want, the community will ask for pure PVE servers, or it will not be a successful game. EQ is PVE.

I don't know what it's like in EQ2 but this is what EQ is like now, it's not just a smaller majority of players that are PVE like in WoW, no EQ is more like a PVE stronghold where 99% of the players are PVE purists.

 

All these PVE servers are not PVE with PVP battlegrounds or something, no they are 100% pure PVE servers.

 

+1

Anyone who thinks EQNext is going to have PvP at the forefront might as well bow out now. Yes it will have PvP and it might be okay but don't think for one moment that PvP comes before PVE.

EQ is and has always been a PVE MMO first and foremost, that will never change.

 

Didn't Smedley specifically say that they were looking to make something that wasn't "Everquest III" but break out into a new direction? I'm not saying that EQN will be all FFA everywhere, but at the same time I wouldn't place too much faith in precedents set by previous iterations.

The fact is, we just don't know. All we have are his hints, plus an unambiguous statement that they're going in a new direction from the old everquests.

Nope they are moving away from EQ2 and back towards EQ with modern features. Fewer classes than EQ2 and an open seamless world are just two of the thing they are going back to. EQNext will be an hybrid imo and not an out and out sandbox game but make no mistake that PVE will be at the core of the game.

Yes it will have an up to date PVP system but PVP will not be the driving force of the game, PVE will lead the way imo.

  cybertrucker

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1126

Freeloading mooches are the scourge of the gaming community.

10/31/12 11:43:06 AM#639
I've been  doing some thinking instead of posting, and all thes e arguments of  PVP vs PVE got me thinking. with newer more improved AI I could imagine instead a world full of advanced factions and PVPVE much akin to what Aion was doing, mixed with GW2 DE style of play.  If done right a system with a lot if depth could be very epic
  Pumuckl71

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 127

10/31/12 11:43:13 AM#640

bold announcements tend to deliver  airbubbles 

well see ........

but in all honesty i think  the hardcore sanbox crowd deserves  a  new game

being crafted for them.

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