Originally posted by The_Korrigan

The big problem with LOTRO's model now is that they broke their promise, and you have items in the cash shop that are mandatory for character progression and gearing up at max level. Even if you are not affected much, it's still a very greedy system, and very bad for the customer. The only reason why I still play LOTRO is because I have a lifetime and I get 500 "free" TPs per month, so I don't have to spend one cent into their shop.

Things like inventory slots, charater slots, bank slots, which both GW2 and LOTRO have, I can understand, it makes sense. But when you start to have to use the cash shop for your character to progress, then it passes the limit for me.

Well, like I implied I don't play the game that much.

If you can't progress without microtransactions that is indeed a "no-no" in my opinion, but what are these items and are they so expensive that you couldn't reasonable be expected to have earned enough TP ingame at the level they become a requirement?

Originally posted by tv2zulu

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

The big problem with LOTRO's model now is that they broke their promise, and you have items in the cash shop that are mandatory for character progression and gearing up at max level. Even if you are not affected much, it's still a very greedy system, and very bad for the customer. The only reason why I still play LOTRO is because I have a lifetime and I get 500 "free" TPs per month, so I don't have to spend one cent into their shop.

Things like inventory slots, charater slots, bank slots, which both GW2 and LOTRO have, I can understand, it makes sense. But when you start to have to use the cash shop for your character to progress, then it passes the limit for me.

Well, like I implied I don't play the game that much.

If you can't progress without microtransactions that is indeed a "no-no" in my opinion, but what are these items and are they so expensive that you couldn't reasonable be expected to have earned enough TP ingame at the level they become a requirement?

TP gains in game are a joke when a simple legendary legacy costs 700+ TPs.

As I said, for people like you and me, it's ok (even more for me with my lifetime account, I don't even pay expansions =P), but for the "normal" player who plays the crap out of the game, it becomes quickly expensive.

Originally posted by Yamota

And again you are making it like Gw2 is a B2P game only where as it is B2P+microtransactions which means that any content which they add to the game will have in mind to increase the revenue in the microtransaction area and not add quality content. Even paid expansions will add things with microtransaction in mind because that will be their longtime revenue stream.

So in other words in any games with cash shop, the long term gaming will be centered around the cash shop because that is the long term revenue stream where as in sub. based games they are free to add whatever makes the game more fun rather than what makes people go to the cash shop to have more fun.

Nobody can predict the future but for now; while yes, there are systems like the Black Lion Chests to encourage use of the Gem shop, does it really feel like the game is build primarily with the idea in mind, to get you to spend gems?

I really don't feel that at all. There tonics, boosters, cosmetic items and account improvements, yes, but none of them really feel mandatory at all to enjoy the game at its full potential. If there really is something you want, earning the gold to buy it without spending money is perfectly viable.

Unless you spend it all on legendaries or similar. Is that really what a game needs, to qualify for a "good" B2P game, for everyone to be able to run around maxed out in every regard, with a time investment suitable for a casual player, without doing a single microtransaction?

Originally posted by Purutzil

Originally posted by Istavaan
I've paid a monthly sub for lower quality mmo's so yes i would. If rift can justify a sub then so can gw2

Didn't know Rift was low quality. Then again i guess I'm the opposite of you. I'd happily pay monthly for rift but GW2 I'm honestly upset I even paid for the game to begin with... it honestly felt more like a $20 B2P game to me then the $60 I paid.  Its all personal opinion though so to each his own. You feel its worth Monthly and feel rift is lack luster, I think rift is one of the best MMOs out there (particularly if your main love is raiding) and GW2 ended up feeling like a very weak AAA title.

I never said it was low quality, i said if rift can justify a sub then so can gw2. I thought rift was a huge disappointment..they hyped up how the world changes and also they hyped up their invasions..in the end rift is just another end game raiding wow clone. if i wanted a wow clone i'd just play wow.

Originally posted by tv2zulu

Originally posted by Yamota

And again you are making it like Gw2 is a B2P game only where as it is B2P+microtransactions which means that any content which they add to the game will have in mind to increase the revenue in the microtransaction area and not add quality content. Even paid expansions will add things with microtransaction in mind because that will be their longtime revenue stream.

So in other words in any games with cash shop, the long term gaming will be centered around the cash shop because that is the long term revenue stream where as in sub. based games they are free to add whatever makes the game more fun rather than what makes people go to the cash shop to have more fun.

Nobody can predict the future but for now; while yes, there are systems like the Black Lion Chests to encourage use of the Gem shop, does it really feel like the game is build primarily with the idea in mind, to get you to spend gems?

I really don't feel that at all. There tonics, boosters, cosmetic items and account improvements, yes, but none of them really feel mandatory at all to enjoy the game at its full potential. If there really is something you want, earning the gold to buy it without spending money is perfectly viable.

Unless you spend it all on legendaries or similar. Is that really what a game needs, to qualify for a "good" B2P game, for everyone to be able to run around maxed out in every regard, with a time investment suitable for a casual player, without doing a single microtransaction?

You are assuming that the cash shop wont change, it will. When the revenue from the boxes start to dwindle then they will add more stuff to the cash shop to increase their revenue stream.

Originally posted by Mannish
I dont mind paying a sub fee for a game but GW2 is simply not worth it. Its not even worth the box price they are charging now. Game should be free download then free to play with cash shop.

Not gonna happen as they need box sales to pay for the dev cost as well as CDN cost for patch/client downloads and data center hosting.

each major expansion will cost $$ so maybe they will offer the base game at a discounted price after the first expansion.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Well, like I implied I don't play the game that much.

If you can't progress without microtransactions that is indeed a "no-no" in my opinion, but what are these items and are they so expensive that you couldn't reasonable be expected to have earned enough TP ingame at the level they become a requirement?

TP gains in game are a joke when a simple legendary legacy costs 700+ TPs.

As I said, for people like you and me, it's ok (even more for me with my lifetime account, I don't even pay expansions =P), but for the "normal" player who plays the crap out of the game, it becomes quickly expensive.

I haven't even reached Moria content yet, even tho that was the expansion I bougt to unlock most premium restrictions, so legendaries haven't really been a concern of mind.

I was under the impression tho, that the basic legendary system was free?

Does it cost TP even for subscribers, because "playing the crap out of it" is pretty much my treshold for when a F2P game can be expected to turn into "microtransaction or sub required".

I guess I just demand less from a F2P game. I certainly don't expect it to be free forever if I end up liking it so much that I tear through the content.

I see the F2P model more as a no barrier to entry, as opposed to "has to be free forever for everything". Which is why I tend to prefer the LotRO model over GW2.

You can get the game installed, check performance and if you like the controls and the setting/lore of the game. Play a large chunk and if you like it, it really only costs a few dollars to play it sub-free for a very long time. With a lot of below standard F2P options out there, not having to put money down upfront is a big incentive for many.

With the GW2 model, you are out 60 bucks, even if you un-install after a few hours. I guess those 60 dollars is what buys you are very reasonable and well done cash shop, but if you end up not liking it, that doesn't do you much good :)

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Purutzil

Originally posted by Istavaan
I've paid a monthly sub for lower quality mmo's so yes i would. If rift can justify a sub then so can gw2

Didn't know Rift was low quality. Then again i guess I'm the opposite of you. I'd happily pay monthly for rift but GW2 I'm honestly upset I even paid for the game to begin with... it honestly felt more like a $20 B2P game to me then the $60 I paid.  Its all personal opinion though so to each his own. You feel its worth Monthly and feel rift is lack luster, I think rift is one of the best MMOs out there (particularly if your main love is raiding) and GW2 ended up feeling like a very weak AAA title.

I never said it was low quality, i said if rift can justify a sub then so can gw2. I thought rift was a huge disappointment..they hyped up how the world changes and also they hyped up their invasions..in the end rift is just another end game raiding wow clone. if i wanted a wow clone i'd just play wow.

And wow is just a raiding EQ clone if I wanted an EQ clone I'd play EQ. (I actually do play EQ, still the best PvE game on the market to me, obviously not for everybody)

the reality is that all the clones have features that make them unique in some aspects and that appeals to some folks. IMO Rift is far superior to WoW especially with Storm Legion.

Originally posted by DMKano

Originally posted by Mannish
I dont mind paying a sub fee for a game but GW2 is simply not worth it. Its not even worth the box price they are charging now. Game should be free download then free to play with cash shop.

Not gonna happen as they need the box sales to pay for the dev cost as well as CDN cost for patch/client downloads and data center hosting.

each major expansion will cost $$ so maybe they will offer the base game at a discounted price after the first expansion.

 

Aint Planetside 2 going to be a free download and play with cash shop?

Originally posted by tv2zulu

With the GW2 model, you are out 60 bucks, even if you un-install after a few hours. I guess those 60 dollars is what buys you are very reasonable and well done cash shop, but if you end up not liking it, that doesn't do you much good :)

Actually, if you only played a "few hours" and didn't like it, ANet offers full refunds. Hell, people with a level 80 char and 100+ hours played managed to get a refund - which is pathetic and sad, but well...

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by DMKano

Originally posted by Mannish
I dont mind paying a sub fee for a game but GW2 is simply not worth it. Its not even worth the box price they are charging now. Game should be free download then free to play with cash shop.

Not gonna happen as they need the box sales to pay for the dev cost as well as CDN cost for patch/client downloads and data center hosting.

each major expansion will cost $$ so maybe they will offer the base game at a discounted price after the first expansion.

 

 

 

Aint Planetside 2 going to be a free download and play with cash shop?

It is - but their cash shop will be a ton more aggressive as that is their sole source of $$

f2p games always have aggressive micro trans models.

b2p games are usually more relaxed near launch due to revenue coming in from box sales, and then it's up to them to keep pumping out b2p expansions to keep up their revenue stream. So  you end up paying close to a monthly sub fee if there are couple of $60 expansions a year.

Originally posted by Yamota

You are assuming that the cash shop wont change, it will. When the revenue from the boxes start to dwindle then they will add more stuff to the cash shop to increase their revenue stream.

There's nothing in the GW1 shop I'm concerned about, I'm fine with that in the GW2 shop.

As for expanding upon what is in the gem shop; more boosters, costumes etc. Nothing that really concerns me.

I really doubt ANet will go down the semi pay-to-play route. They are the only developer who have run a B2P game before, with GW1, as opposed to the other publishers and developers who had to shoe-horn the cash shop into their games post launch.

TSW had it at launch and I really see no similarity in Funcoms and ANets attitude towards their cash shop.

The pretty high drop-rate of Black Lion Keys, transmutation stones, mystic coins and dyes doesn't imply to me, that the average player has to worry about teh future of the cash shop in GW2. At the end of its lifecycle, that's a different scenarion.

That's not to say it couldn't go in the wrong direction, but I'll give ANet the benefit of the doubt as they actually have presedence with sustaining a B2P game with expansions and a reasonable cash shop.

Originally posted by DMKano

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by DMKano

Originally posted by Mannish
I dont mind paying a sub fee for a game but GW2 is simply not worth it. Its not even worth the box price they are charging now. Game should be free download then free to play with cash shop.

Not gonna happen as they need the box sales to pay for the dev cost as well as CDN cost for patch/client downloads and data center hosting.

each major expansion will cost $$ so maybe they will offer the base game at a discounted price after the first expansion.

 

 

 

Aint Planetside 2 going to be a free download and play with cash shop?

It is - but their cash shop will be a ton more aggressive as that is their sole source of $$

f2p games always have aggressive micro trans models.

b2p games are usually more relaxed near launch due to revenue coming in from box sales, and then it's up to them to keep pumping out b2p expansions to keep up their revenue stream. So  you end up paying close to a monthly sub fee if there are couple of $60 expansions a year.

 

I think all mmos should be free download and free to play with a cash shop. The hard part is designing a good cash shop that does not give unfair advantage to people who are willing to spend more then others.

I said no because, essentially, I am already paying monthly via the cash shop.  I keep it to 15 USD or less, but I do it monthly to support the game and to get some stuff I want for myself, like converting gems to gold for one.

So no, I wouldn't pay a sub as the game stands, BUT....if they removed the cash shop and I had no other way of supporting the developers, then yes I would pay a sub.  That option wasn't on your survey, which having only two answers will have misleading results.