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10/19/12 9:23:28 AM#341
Originally posted by Thebigbopper What did WoW really do for endgame though? Step back and look at it. As you level, you continually obsolete the content behind you. Eventually you're funnelled into a very narrow range of available content for your character. From a PvE perspective, you're funnelled into a very narrow pipe leading you from dungeon to dungeon to raid to raid... and every step of the way the door closes behind you to the prior content being viable. Finally you're in that last raid and that last raid alone. That's it... you're PvE endgame becomes reduced to one raid. Period. One freaking raid. Oh... and dailies.
They've turned people into skritt, and the people convinced themselves that they like it. I did, for years. Always chasing shinies. Oderint, dum metuant. |
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10/19/12 9:23:28 AM#342
Originally posted by Volkon And yet someone dared say the same thign about GW2 and he got labeled as a troll and his opinion was denied because well his opinion is stupid. I said the same thing ysterday that people have different opinions when it comes to end game and not everyone is goign to look at it the same way. |
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10/19/12 9:27:29 AM#343
Originally posted by bunnyhopper Reread my post carefully, and you'll maybe understand the difference. I'm gonna highlight the word "mandatory'" to help you. |
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Zorgo
 Elite Member
Joined: 12/05/05
Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising? |
10/19/12 9:27:46 AM#344
Originally posted by Volkon I think you are fooling yourself if you don't think GW2 operates without a carrot-on-a-stick. Anything you are motivated to achieve in GW2 is 'the carrot' How hard it is to achieve is the length of 'the stick'. At most you could say that you believe GW2's carrots to be ripe and fresh. |
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10/19/12 9:28:50 AM#345
Originally posted by Volkon Thing is, the next tier purples aren't even "shinier" than the previous tier ones... all they do is take you back to the same level you were at the end of the previous tier of content. Compared to the content level, they are just as shiny as your previous gear... only the mind sees bigger numbers and is somewhat "happy". |
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10/19/12 9:30:32 AM#346
Originally posted by Zorgo A one line post without any kind of argumentation won't get you out of this. What's the carrot. I mean, what is the mandatory, very long grind you have to do in GW2 in order to no longer be canon fodder, be it PvP or PvE wise? Please explain, clearly, no lousy one sentence answers this time. PS: haha nice edit... Originally posted by Zorgo Still not satisfying though... all I read is "GW2 has a carrot too", without any details. So please, tell us, what is that mysterious mandatory and repetitive activity GW2 players have to go through in order to be competitive, PvP and PvE wise? |
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10/19/12 9:30:45 AM#347
Originally posted by halflife25 Exactly.
Arguments both for and after would be much more productive if people expressed things as opinion as opposed to fact. I don't see this type of content as endgame. You don't see that type of content as endgame. We differ, we play different games, we have fun.
But... that would kill the forum PvP I'm afraid... and for many posters here, that's their endgame. Oderint, dum metuant. |
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10/19/12 9:34:52 AM#348
Originally posted by Volkon You mean, people could stick to forums of games they like and positively contribute to improve their community instead of polluting forums of games they dislike and ruining them with negativity? Come on, we are on Internet, people are anonymous behind computer screens, do you really expect them to behave maturely? ;-) |
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10/19/12 9:36:12 AM#349
Originally posted by Zorgo The proverbial carrot is the unobtainable goal. You follow the path trying to reach that dangly thing that's always out of reach. The cycle that never ends... more gear for more power so you can get more gear for more power so you can get ...
Some folks are so busy looking for (and not finding) the carrot in GW2 that they don't realize they just walked past the entire buffett. Oderint, dum metuant. |
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10/19/12 9:36:23 AM#350
Originally posted by The_Korrigan I understand the difference hence the point about it being an improvement, just not a massive one. I've underlined it to help you.
People are still doing exactly the same grind, they are just doing it for skins instead of stats. Awesome. |
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10/19/12 9:37:40 AM#351
Originally posted by Volkon Hehe..i agree. However most of the times even if you are simply giving your opinion you will be accussed for distorting the facts. Happens a lot of time. People should be allowed to have an opinion whether positive or negative. This is open forum for discussion after all and not same fan site. |
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10/19/12 11:52:20 AM#352
Originally posted by kaiser3282 That's because you're talking about themepark games. The only really social AAA MMO since 2004 that I can think of was Vanguard. People can blame player mentality all they want but they're only half right. Socializing always takes game mechanics to encourage it. Dark Age of Camelot was a HEAVILY social game until they made soloing better than grouping. It was faster and got equal rewards. Result? No one grouped. Long term result? A solo mindset was born. Games mechanics cultivate a culture inside the game and shift the play styles. If GW2 had heavy grouping benefits, you'd bet that people would group more. And if people group more, they talk more, usually. |
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10/19/12 12:06:32 PM#353
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't disregard the fact, however, that GW2 encourages people to come together in the PvE world, especially while levelling. By removing the competitive aspect of PvE and rewarding cooperative efforts other players are something to seek out and work with instead of something to avoid like the plague and curse out in the local chat. Also, a major damper on typed communications is the combat style in GW2. For me at least, if I'm fighting I simply don't have enough time to stop, type something out and start fighting again. The dynamic, active combat works against typed communications. What would be amazing for this game, and I'm not even sure if the technology exists, is an integrated voice communications that has a local range. When you're within a certain distance of other players, you can hear them in chat and chat back. Outside that range, they fade away. Keep map chat and all that of course, but this would really kick the social aspect into overdrive. Oderint, dum metuant. |
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10/19/12 1:53:31 PM#354
Originally posted by DavisFlight I keep asking this lately a lot but good god some people.....Have you played the game? The reason why people talk in other games whle they group is because there isa lot of downtime to chat. In GW2 there is basically 0 downtime between fights or actions, you have to always pay attention while you are in the open world. THATS WHY people dont talk, not because grouping isnt encoraged. And if you took this fast and non stop combat out of the game a lot of people wouldnt even play. You could add a 1000% exp boost or magic find boost while partying and you would still see people not saying a single world for hours. |
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Zorgo
Elite Member
Joined: 12/05/05
Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising? |
10/19/12 2:30:40 PM#355
Originally posted by The_Korrigan That isn't the definition of carrot and stick. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrot_and_stick
In GW2 if you want that next level (the carrot) you have to quest or craft or explore. They don't 'give' you the level, they dangle it out there with activities to accomplish to reach it (the stick). I don't know how specific I have to be.......every reward you shoot for in GW2 is a carrot, every obstacle you have to overcome to get it is the stick...... So name something you want from GW2. Tell me what you have to do to accomplish it. There is your carrot and your stick.... I think you are referring to th 'gear treadmill'. And I totally agree, GW2 has eliminated this. So, I stand by my earlier assesment. You are still chasing carrots. They are just fresh and the stick is fun. Let's not argue about semantics - I'm pretty sure we agree. |
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10/19/12 2:42:31 PM#356
I have one more person on my block list. Thanks for clearing that up. Someday you will maybe find a video game - hell, or even just a human activity - which isn't a carrot on a stick. But I won't be there to read it, because people using nonsensical generalizations and intentionally misunderstanding or ignoring part of what others are saying just to be right on a video game forum arent' interesting. Best regards. EDIT: thanks Volkon - you have more patience than me. |
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10/19/12 2:46:04 PM#357
Originally posted by Zorgo Supported by the fact that the mule cannot move away from the stick, and that using a carrot and a stick simultaneously is redundant, some claim that this usage of phrase is erroneous, and that it in fact comes from the figure of a carrot on a stick. In this case, the driver would tie a carrot on a string to a long stick and dangle it in front of the donkey, just out of its reach. As the donkey moved forward to get the carrot, it pulled the cart and the driver so that the carrot would always remain out of reach.
This is always how I've seen and heard "carrot on a stick" defined. It's the situation where, in the case of the mule, you're chasing an unobtainable reward. Carrot/stick games like WoW keep you chasing the carrot with the constant implementation of more and more tiers of gear with the ever-increasing power curve. You can never truly obtain the carrot, for once you think you have you find a newer carrot once again dangling out of reach.
This is not the case in GW2. You're not chasing a carrot. You have a buffett of options in front of you and can choose what you want. Not only that, you can actually reach your goals. You can get legendaries and not worry that next month they'll be obsolete. You can reach 100% completion on a land. (If trends from past expansions holds, new lands will bring new completion goals and not add on to the existing.) Oderint, dum metuant. |
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10/19/12 3:18:12 PM#358
generally I think yes. There are some aspects of the game which are bad. Imo the whole personal storyline was a waste of resources. Dungeons could have been done much better. Still when i look at the game as a whole I see quality. that's why i think the game deserved high scores. No game will be perfect and have every system better than competition, but if the whole quality of the game rises above the standard It definiteley deserves it.
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Zorgo
Elite Member
Joined: 12/05/05
Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising? |
10/19/12 6:28:34 PM#359
Originally posted by Volkon I'd accept that. I still don't think I misused the analogy either. But I can see how you differentiate. I simply think of every game I play as a sort of excersice in carrot/stick. I still think 'gear treadmill' is closer to what you guys are talking about - but to each his own.
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Zorgo
Elite Member
Joined: 12/05/05
Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising? |
10/19/12 6:30:13 PM#360
Originally posted by The_Korrigan That's pretty funny...... Did I really warrant that? Is my conception of 'carrot and stick' that offensive? Is it a misunderstanding to say what he called 'carrot/stick' I think is more accurately referred to as 'the gear treadmill'? Was it offensive that I agreed that GW2 has eliminated the gear treadmill as we saw it in WoW? Wow.
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