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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Do you feel that GW2 deserves the critical acclaim it's gotten from the press and gaming sites?

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425 posts found
  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

10/19/12 1:09:49 AM#321
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by DavisFlight

I've already said, numerous times, that that is a partial improvement over the norm, actually being able to play with the people around you.

The PROBLEM, the one we all keep talking about that the handful of ardent GW2 fans try to pretend isn't there, is that none of those people you're soft grouping with communicate or group with you. They act like bots. In many of the DEs there are bots out there fighting with you and I honest to God couldn't tell the players from the bots most of the time. Actually that's not true, bots talk a lot more than players do. And that's sad.

You keep parroting this problem

That's because it's a problem.

It's not just me, you see people sharing this sentiment on almost every forum. Unless I just have 40 accounts on 100 forums, then I'd be parroting.

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

10/19/12 1:38:45 AM#322
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by DavisFlight

I've already said, numerous times, that that is a partial improvement over the norm, actually being able to play with the people around you.

The PROBLEM, the one we all keep talking about that the handful of ardent GW2 fans try to pretend isn't there, is that none of those people you're soft grouping with communicate or group with you. They act like bots. In many of the DEs there are bots out there fighting with you and I honest to God couldn't tell the players from the bots most of the time. Actually that's not true, bots talk a lot more than players do. And that's sad.

You keep parroting this problem

That's because it's a problem.

It's not just me, you see people sharing this sentiment on almost every forum. Unless I just have 40 accounts on 100 forums, then I'd be parroting.

While I agree that grouping in the openworld is next to useless and needs to be rectified, it baffles me how people think that grouping is necessary to be social in this game. It's definitely part of being social, but it's just one of the catalysts.

If people can't bring themselves to socialize just because they aren't in a group then it says more about their playstyle and personality than the shortcoming of the game. I've had just as much interaction in this game than the others I've played. I see people asking for Vistas, assistance with Champions, POIs, LFG, LFM, even DEs that spawn. What socialization do people like you crave for? One where you can get someone's phone number and address? I really don't understand.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

10/19/12 4:09:57 AM#323
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by DavisFlight

I've already said, numerous times, that that is a partial improvement over the norm, actually being able to play with the people around you.

The PROBLEM, the one we all keep talking about that the handful of ardent GW2 fans try to pretend isn't there, is that none of those people you're soft grouping with communicate or group with you. They act like bots. In many of the DEs there are bots out there fighting with you and I honest to God couldn't tell the players from the bots most of the time. Actually that's not true, bots talk a lot more than players do. And that's sad.

You keep parroting this problem

That's because it's a problem.

It's not just me, you see people sharing this sentiment on almost every forum. Unless I just have 40 accounts on 100 forums, then I'd be parroting.

While I agree that grouping in the openworld is next to useless and needs to be rectified, it baffles me how people think that grouping is necessary to be social in this game. It's definitely part of being social, but it's just one of the catalysts.

If people can't bring themselves to socialize just because they aren't in a group then it says more about their playstyle and personality than the shortcoming of the game. I've had just as much interaction in this game than the others I've played. I see people asking for Vistas, assistance with Champions, POIs, LFG, LFM, even DEs that spawn. What socialization do people like you crave for? One where you can get someone's phone number and address? I really don't understand.

They want the socialization they get in other MMORPGs where they:

a) Go rush to get the resource node while the mob is bashing on the other player;

b) the 1 hour chat session they have in town while waiting for their instance as a DPS;

So, for someone used to that kind of game where at least half the time they are waiting a game where people are constantly playing doesn't offer much time to chat.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Jakard

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/19/06
Posts: 417

10/19/12 4:21:35 AM#324
For me, here's the problem. I own Guild Wars 2 but really haven't played much of it. So, I can't really say that it deserves the acclaim or doesn't deserve it. What I will say is that game websites push these reviews out too quickly. People play MMOs for the long-haul. So, when you see reviews being released a couple of days to a couple of weks after the launch of the game, I don't think the review can realistically have that much merit. Because you're not really getting the entire scope of the game just some early first impressions of the game (even if you make it to levle cap because the item grind is where the game begins for a lot of people). The bottom line is that we shouldn't take too much stock into recviews in my opinion.
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

10/19/12 4:21:38 AM#325

Most polls on these forums are invalid because the voting population is unrepresentative.

This is why I have never initiated a poll.

This site attracts a lot of detractors looking to vent their spleens, and equally many fans looking to shoot down the detractors.

This means poll results get polarised - as indeed these are, about equally.

The majority of players playing the game are not looking at these forums and so the other players who really like the game, and the probable majority who thinks it's fine but not 'all that' don't represent.

So not only does the poll need a choice (b) representing the middle ground (and those not quite as polarised as the two choices here), it also needs those who don't come here to vote.

In conclusion - anyone drawing hard and fast conclusions from a poll here - pro or con, are wasting their time, and cannot claim these results support their own opinion about the game.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2691

10/19/12 4:34:06 AM#326
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by DavisFlight

I've already said, numerous times, that that is a partial improvement over the norm, actually being able to play with the people around you.

The PROBLEM, the one we all keep talking about that the handful of ardent GW2 fans try to pretend isn't there, is that none of those people you're soft grouping with communicate or group with you. They act like bots. In many of the DEs there are bots out there fighting with you and I honest to God couldn't tell the players from the bots most of the time. Actually that's not true, bots talk a lot more than players do. And that's sad.

You keep parroting this problem

That's because it's a problem.

It's not just me, you see people sharing this sentiment on almost every forum. Unless I just have 40 accounts on 100 forums, then I'd be parroting.

I think most of us here, possibly even you if you really think about it, have all experienced something like this in MMOs. Youre in an area doing a quest by yourself, someone (or a few other people) else comes along on the same quest and either you or 1 of those other people just starts tossing out party invites and forming a group. But more often than not, nobody REALLY socializes. Its not like forming a party automatically makes everyone start having these awesome in depth discussions with eachother,  sharing stories and opinions, etc. Much of the time its just "Im done. Thanks for the party. Bye" Thats about the extent of  "socializing" for the average player. At best someone might ask a couple of questions and get answers in return, but only if everyone in the group is very social do you actually do more talking than is needed to get the job done. Its a very common thing.

Reality is, much of the time in MMOs "grouping" with someone has very little difference from being solo alongside eachother, except that due to mechanics you may get more xp, better loot, or get the quests done faster. Social aspect doesnt even come into play.

As I said in an earlier post, they could completely remove the ability to form a party in most games, and your experience would still be pretty much the same. There just isnt some window that pops up in your UI saying "Hey! You're playing alongside this person". Would the lack of ability to get that little window in your UI actually stop you from socializing with anyone if you want to be social person?

In GW2, they did just that in a way. While they didnt remove the ABILITY to party with people, they removed the NEED to party with people in the main world. It doesnt change wether or not people want to be social. The only difference between GW2 and other games in this respect is youre not sharing a /party chat. But if people want to talk, they will talk regardless.

IMO, the grouping system / dynamics have the least to do with the socializing aspect of the game. If anything it's more influence by:

1) The popularity of the game. Much like comparing a small town, where everyone knows eachother, is friendly and social, etc vs a bustling metropolis where you dont know 1 face from the next as you go about your day and have nothing to say to anyone other than your select group of friends, family, and co-workers. People dont get to know eachother because they're just random people in a sea of random people who you likely dont have anything in common with or any real purpose for socializing with eachother. You might say "Hello" and go about your day, but thats about it unless you find yourself in a place where you do share a common interest. Like if youre at a bookstore or music store or something, or at a park playing some ball, or whatever you will tend to socialize with people more in those settings than with the random people passing you by as you walk down the street. The general overabundance of people as well as variety of things to do in a setting like a big city tends to keep people detached from eachother in the main populace, and a lot of "clique" forming happens. Outside of that clique, you dont care about the other people. Whereas in a smaller town with less variety (like that 1 or 2 diners or bars in town that everyone goes to and socializes vs hundreds of restaraunts / bars in a city) theres less cliques and more of a shared community amongst everyone. In this respect GW2 is much more like the bustling city. If GW2 didnt have such a large amount of players chances are it would seem like a more social & tight knit community because the few people playing would stand out more as individuals and you would also be more limited in who you had to socialize with rather than just sticking to your clique and ignoring the general masses.

Of course in both types of settings you'll have people who are extremely social & outgoing and other who are introverted and dont talk to others much at all. Its just that in the big city / very populated game setting people who are somewhat in the middle tend to be less social in the general public and more social within their cliques, like guilds. To anyone outside of that clique / guild it might appear they are very anti-social.

2) The pace of the game when it comes to  combat as well as DEs & respawn rates. Many games have sort of a slower paced combat where you're generally standing still a lot mor eoften rather than actively moving around in combat, allowing you more time to stop an type to another player.

DEs also have an impact because rather than just mosying along on your way from 1 static quest to the next, quests which will sit there and wait for you endlessly until you as an individual complete them, you constantly have DEs popping up around you which will progress wether you do something as an individual or not. You want to hurry up and get to that DE and do as much as you can to make sure you get your gold rewards, etc. You often dont have time to "stop and smell the roses" or chat with other players as youre going along doing stuff, unless you explicitly stop playing (and possibly sacrifice rewards) to chat with others.

In that same sense, things like respawn rates & aggro also come into play. In many games, you have quite a bit of downtime (sometimes several minutes) between respawns where you can stop and chat with other people who are with you. A lot of areas in GW2 dont really give you that luxury. Just think about places like Orr. I see a lot of people complaining about how many mobs there are and how quickt hey respawn, etc and how much of a pain in the ass it is just to get around. If they were to stop and chat, they would die.

Anyway, I think any lack of socializing in GW2 vs socializing in other games has much more to do with the 2 above sections than any actual grouping mechanic like soft grouping vs normal grouping vs forced grouping. They may slightly impact it, but not as much as people seem to think they do.

In comparison, if you take a game like WoW, which has the massive population like in 1, but follows the static quest / content design instead of dynamic & always progressing content, people have more downtime and so tend to chat more regardless of the "big city" population. They have the time to be more social.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

10/19/12 4:44:01 AM#327
Originally posted by Aerowyn
 

how is there no benefit to grouping? with grouping you finish things faster which = leveling faster.. with shared loot when grouping things die faster = more loot for you.. with groups you get to enjoy and play with the combo system a lot more as most classes only have a couple variations they can do on their own.. when grouping you can take on larger events and harder champions you could not take on alone.. really how is there no benefit to grouping?  but then again I assume you mean making a "party" and not just grouping and playing with others.. i will agree there is not much benefit to forming a party outside dungeons and WvW but there is PLENTY of benefit to playing with others

If you playing with someone for some period of time it is indeed beneficial to party.

You can see the other person boons/conditions, you can draw/ping in the map/mini map.

I'm not sure if influence gains from activities (like dungeons, sPvP and events/PersonalStory) only happen when partied with guildies or if you don't need to be in a party - Doing an event with no other guildies generate 2 influence while doing with another guildie generates 20 influence (opposoed to 4 influence if the 2 players were doing different events).

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2691

10/19/12 4:45:22 AM#328
Originally posted by halflife25
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by halflife25

What ZZAD is talking about that anyone who has an opinion that GW2 is'nt a RPG or is lacking as an RPG MMO is stupid. I am not even going to touch 'whether it is MMO or not part because people are free to interpret MMOS and their definitions in any manner they like.

So nope it is still an opinion an opinion he can gracefully disagree with but he chose not to instead resorted to personal attacks as usual.

That's not an opinion though.

Saying 'GW2 isn't an RPG' is just as stupid as someone saying 'CoD isn't an FPS'. GW2, whether you like it or not, IS a role playing game. It's a game, and you are playing a role in that game. By the very definition of what makes a game considered an RPG, GW2 is an RPG. Saying differently isn't an opinion, it's a blatant lie.

That's the problem when you confuse the difference between opinion and fact. These terms 'MMO' and 'RPG' have very specific definitions. 'MMO' stands for 'Massive, Multiplayer, Online. 'RPG' stands for 'Role Playing Game. Put them together, and you have 'Massively, Multiplayer, Online, Role-Playing Game.

Is GW2 Massive? Yes. It has 100s of thousands of players all playing the same game.

Is GW2 Multiplayers? Yes. You play with other people.

Is GW2 Online? Yes. You play it over the internet.

Is GW2 Role-Playing? Yes. You are assuming the identity of another character.

Is GW2 a Game? Yes. You are playing with a set of mechanics to achieve certain 'goals'.

I really shouldn't have to explain this in such detail. You do realise the difference between an opinion & a fact, yes?

Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Fact: a truth verifiable from experience or observation.

In order for something to be considered an opinion, it can't have an assumed certainty (as is made clear by the above definition). Saying 'GW2 is not an RPG' assumes, with certainty, that the game doesn't fit a specific definition. As such it goes counter to the very definition of what makes an opinion, an opinion.

You can repeat it as many times as you like even though people have backed up their opinion with proper and elaborate reasoning.

On what established criteria of MMORPG definition  are you calling their opinions stupid? it is not some scientficaly proven fact which can not be refuted by merely giving an opinion.

Is there some univeraly accepted definition of MMOS and RPG which are set in stone and hence not opened to difference of opinions? if yes please feel free to show it to me.

There is no factual definition of MMOS, i never came across one.

There is an actual "definition" of sorts. The average player and member of these forums is just too new to realize it, and its been muddled by other nonsense over the years. Most people came into these games with having MMOs already existant for years, but they werent around both before and after the term started being used.

I posted this earlier, but I think it was missed by most with a lot of the back and forth stuff going on.

Pre-UO the term MMO wasnt in use. It was coined by Richard Garriot when he used it as a way to describe what UO was. Before that you had MUDs, etc but when describing UO he referred to it as a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. The Massively Multiplayer part was simply a reference to the ability for large numbers of players to come together int he same world and interact with eachother. It has absolutely no meaning in reference to things like instanced and zoned vs seamless, or what type of content exists, or any such nonsense. It simply means a game in which we can all come together and interact with eachother in various ways, regardless of how that interaction takes form.

Before this you had places where people ould interact with eachhother, such as MUDs, but MMO was used specifically to differentiate between pre-existing MUds and graphical video games.

AS far as it being universally accepted. Not so much, mainly because a lot of people are clueless about its original use and meaning and try to fit their own opinions / expectations onto what makes an MMO. Let's be honest. There are quite  few people on this site who have been around since those times, but we are a minority. The vast majority of "gamers", especially when it comes to MMO didnt even exist pre-WoW era, or when it comes to gaming in general pre-PS2 / X-Box era.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2691

10/19/12 4:49:15 AM#329
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Aerowyn
 

how is there no benefit to grouping? with grouping you finish things faster which = leveling faster.. with shared loot when grouping things die faster = more loot for you.. with groups you get to enjoy and play with the combo system a lot more as most classes only have a couple variations they can do on their own.. when grouping you can take on larger events and harder champions you could not take on alone.. really how is there no benefit to grouping?  but then again I assume you mean making a "party" and not just grouping and playing with others.. i will agree there is not much benefit to forming a party outside dungeons and WvW but there is PLENTY of benefit to playing with others

If you playing with someone for some period of time it is indeed beneficial to party.

You can see the other person boons/conditions, you can draw/ping in the map/mini map.

I'm not sure if influence gains from activities (like dungeons, sPvP and events/PersonalStory) only happen when partied with guildies or if you don't need to be in a party - Doing an event with no other guildies generate 2 influence while doing with another guildie generates 20 influence (opposoed to 4 influence if the 2 players were doing different events).

Yes thats a very good point, and something I think a lot of people dont realize about the rewards. I didnt notice this myself at 1st either. While it doesnt help so much with PUGs, grouping with guild members makes a HUGE difference giving many times more influence than running solo. I believe the more guild members you have together, the more it increases.

Spent most of the 1st week or 2 running solo and grinding that crappy 2 inf or so per DE trying to get Inf for the guild. Then after finally going to the same area as 2 of my guildies and doing DEs together for an hour or 2 I noticed we suddenly gained a few hundred influence instead of the 10-20 I was getting in that time by myself.

As far as benefits of grouping in PUGs. If there is no clear benefit to it right now, there is something quite somple they could do to change that. Either add a bonus (like 5-10%) to rewards while in a group OR add bonuses to your skills such as heals, buffs, combo effects, etc doing something like 10% more effective on group members than people outside of your group.

Personally I think the 2nd would be better as it doesnt penalize solo players as far as rewards, and at the same time gives more purpose to those wanting to play in more of a support role.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

10/19/12 6:26:47 AM#330
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Aerowyn
 

how is there no benefit to grouping? with grouping you finish things faster which = leveling faster.. with shared loot when grouping things die faster = more loot for you.. with groups you get to enjoy and play with the combo system a lot more as most classes only have a couple variations they can do on their own.. when grouping you can take on larger events and harder champions you could not take on alone.. really how is there no benefit to grouping?  but then again I assume you mean making a "party" and not just grouping and playing with others.. i will agree there is not much benefit to forming a party outside dungeons and WvW but there is PLENTY of benefit to playing with others

If you playing with someone for some period of time it is indeed beneficial to party.

You can see the other person boons/conditions, you can draw/ping in the map/mini map.

I'm not sure if influence gains from activities (like dungeons, sPvP and events/PersonalStory) only happen when partied with guildies or if you don't need to be in a party - Doing an event with no other guildies generate 2 influence while doing with another guildie generates 20 influence (opposoed to 4 influence if the 2 players were doing different events).

Yes thats a very good point, and something I think a lot of people dont realize about the rewards. I didnt notice this myself at 1st either. While it doesnt help so much with PUGs, grouping with guild members makes a HUGE difference giving many times more influence than running solo. I believe the more guild members you have together, the more it increases.

Spent most of the 1st week or 2 running solo and grinding that crappy 2 inf or so per DE trying to get Inf for the guild. Then after finally going to the same area as 2 of my guildies and doing DEs together for an hour or 2 I noticed we suddenly gained a few hundred influence instead of the 10-20 I was getting in that time by myself.

As far as benefits of grouping in PUGs. If there is no clear benefit to it right now, there is something quite somple they could do to change that. Either add a bonus (like 5-10%) to rewards while in a group OR add bonuses to your skills such as heals, buffs, combo effects, etc doing something like 10% more effective on group members than people outside of your group.

Personally I think the 2nd would be better as it doesnt penalize solo players as far as rewards, and at the same time gives more purpose to those wanting to play in more of a support role.

An interesting thing is that in most games being in a party means you have less loot and less XP  to balance the fact you will be faster and safer.But in the end, leveling alone will most likely be faster/more rewarding in game terms.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

10/19/12 8:50:05 AM#331
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by DavisFlight

I've already said, numerous times, that that is a partial improvement over the norm, actually being able to play with the people around you.

The PROBLEM, the one we all keep talking about that the handful of ardent GW2 fans try to pretend isn't there, is that none of those people you're soft grouping with communicate or group with you. They act like bots. In many of the DEs there are bots out there fighting with you and I honest to God couldn't tell the players from the bots most of the time. Actually that's not true, bots talk a lot more than players do. And that's sad.

You keep parroting this problem

That's because it's a problem.

It's not just me, you see people sharing this sentiment on almost every forum. Unless I just have 40 accounts on 100 forums, then I'd be parroting.

 

It's striking how amazingly wrong you are. The major flaw with your line of reasoning is that you're talking about the levelling experience, which is the most social of practically all MMOs out there. The main reason for this is the removal of competitive PvE. When you see people in other MMOs, WoW for example, the tendancy is to flat out avoid them altogether. They're tagging mobs you need, therefore you can't get any credit for those mobs, nor any loot. They're competing directly for mining nodes instead of sharing the location of a rich oricalcum node in chat. PvE in other MMOs is the least social aspect of the games, and dramatically less social than GW2. Yes, you don't need to chat in GW2 when people come together for events. But you know what... they're still coming together instead of avoiding each other or maybe insulting each others female parental units after someone tagged a miniboss the other guy had been waiting half an hour for.

In all MMOs, once you've hit max level and moved on to endgame style content there's little to no difference in social interactions, GW2 included. I now spend practically as much time in TS3 while playing as I do playing, chatting with the guild, especially in WvW. Social abounds, even if we're talking instead of typing.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Deerhunter71

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/05
Posts: 554

10/19/12 8:54:55 AM#332
Originally posted by Rimmersman
And to answer the OP, no i don't think  [mod edit] deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.

It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.

Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, [mod edit]

Naw - you are spot on there.  My whole guild barely logs in once a week if that to do world vs. world vs. world....  I mean there is no endgame period that is that, lol

First MMO I ever saw with no real endgame.  And do not tell me the PvP is the endgame - I know they stated it is SO if you are going to make it endgame then do not have the same boring ass maps every single time with absolutely NO consequences to the PvP....

  Greenthingg

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 24

10/19/12 9:08:51 AM#333

Best game since GW1 for me.  Strangely, as I'm a PvPer mostly, I enjoy dungeon runs in GW2, because it's an actual challenge the first times you do a different path.  I like to not go look at the wiki to gather information on it, unless we die repeatedly to some unknown mechanics.

PvP though, is what is disapointing for me.  WvWvW is good, but some huge bugs (stealth zergs), hacking (orb stealing) and imbalances really make me want to play it less than I expected.  For example, I play a guardian, and melee is extremely harder to play and have fun with in WvWvW.  But on my mesmer I feel so OP.  To me, that is broken balance.  Why ranged have such an advantage is a huge drawback.

sPvP I couldn't care less, capping flags is boring, I prefer deathmatch or king of the hills style.  Some might like it some don't.  i'd also like to play bigger maps and bigger teams, like 12v12, 18v18.  i'd like to see more options.

In the end, there's room for lots of improvements, but I'm really having a lot of fun.  I don't care about chasing carrots, all I want is a challenging game, and right now, as I explore dungeons with my RL mates, we're getting a ton of it.

 

Also I'd like to add, people are really oerexagerating the botting issue.  I sometimes see bots, but they're few and far between, only are they annoying in the human noob areas.  And since they deal with them, I'm ok with it.  Keep reporting them.

 

Also on the topic of GW2 being an MMO or not, the players are free to socialize or not.  You're kinda forced to group for harder content though.  I like that you can solo AND group.  More options is always better.  Let me tell you, my friends and I have lots of fun and we play together and I consider it one of the best MMO ever created.  What I also like are the world bosses DEs, you just spam chat with their location and see a bunch of players all coming to help you, that's MMO to it's finest.  The only thing I miss is the option to PK, but w/e.  Like it or not, GW2 is a MMO, only YOU decide to not socialize.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

10/19/12 9:30:25 AM#334
Originally posted by Deerhunter71
Originally posted by Rimmersman
And to answer the OP, no i don't think  [mod edit] deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.

It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.

Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, [mod edit]

Naw - you are spot on there.  My whole guild barely logs in once a week if that to do world vs. world vs. world....  I mean there is no endgame period that is that, lol

First MMO I ever saw with no real endgame.  And do not tell me the PvP is the endgame - I know they stated it is SO if you are going to make it endgame then do not have the same boring ass maps every single time with absolutely NO consequences to the PvP....

The irony is that a game like, for example, WoW has no endgame in my opinion. You simply get funnelled into minimal content, whatever the latest raid is, where you run on the treadmill until you get all the carrots or get worn out just to wait for the next raid. The illusion of progression is comical. People think they're progressing their characters, getting more powerful, yet the next raid is amped up such that they're back to being mediocre once again, then back on the treadmill. But there are those that call this "endgame", so run in place they do.

I see endgame differently however. In GW2, there's the entire world to explore, and beyond the basic map completions there's so much hidden content waiting to be discovered, with the next batch of new hidden stuff, more jumping puzzles, mini-dungeons (open world type), etc. all coming... Monday if I recall. Last night in WvW there was someone running around with Twilight, one of the legendary greatswords. Man, I haven't even started focusing on legendaries yet. Nor have I started explorable mode dungeons... WvW lately has sucked up most of my playing time when I'm not levelling an alt with my kids.

In a nutshell, endgame in GW2 differs because, simply, the game doesn't end. You're not forced into that one latest raid ad nauseum chasing that one piece of stat boosting gear over and over that the hunter always rolls on and wins. (Don't get me started there... or when I lost the crit trinket to a ret pally...) No matter where you go, there more and new to see. At any level! You never leave entire sections of the world permanently behind you.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

10/19/12 9:59:25 AM#335
Given that I consider MMORPG reviews that present themselves as if they were judging the whole game, inherentely flawed due to the vast amount of time needed to do proper ones, I don't think the acclaim is unfair. I think it is fair because of how they have reacted to other MMORPGs in the past, such as SWTOR. 
  User Deleted
10/19/12 10:10:03 AM#336
Originally posted by Volkon

The irony is that a game like, for example, WoW has no endgame in my opinion. You simply get funnelled into minimal content, whatever the latest raid is, where you run on the treadmill until you get all the carrots or get worn out just to wait for the next raid. The illusion of progression is comical. People think they're progressing their characters, getting more powerful, yet the next raid is amped up such that they're back to being mediocre once again, then back on the treadmill. But there are those that call this "endgame", so run in place they do.

And you'll have those people certify you that farming the same raid boss for the 50st time to get that last epic drop, which will be made completely obsolete in the next patch, is fun. Been there, done that myself... raiding CAN be fun when done with the right people, but the repetition is mindnumbing no matter how you put it. Problem is, you feel that you have to keep on going on raids to help the 24 other people who were less lucky than you with drops. It's all about the hamster wheel, the threadmill, the pavlov dog reflex too.

And then comes the next patch, obliterating all your actual gear, and requiring you to start over from scratch.

I like GW2 because there's no mendatory task to do 3+ days a week for 3+ hours at least to remain competitive. I can log in 1 hour a week, or 8 hours a day, I will still not be canon fodder, be it PvE or PvP wise. I can go AFK for a month, and my guildies won't have overgeared me during that time to the point that I'm useless until I catch up.

  Thebigbopper

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/12/04
Posts: 114

10/19/12 10:15:41 AM#337
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Deerhunter71
Originally posted by Rimmersman
And to answer the OP, no i don't think  [mod edit] deserves the acclaim, the novelty soon wears off and you are left feeling, what is the point.

It has a few good things going for it but it's not the second coming like some over the top fans think.

Of course this is just my take on it but i found it boring as hell, [mod edit]

Naw - you are spot on there.  My whole guild barely logs in once a week if that to do world vs. world vs. world....  I mean there is no endgame period that is that, lol

First MMO I ever saw with no real endgame.  And do not tell me the PvP is the endgame - I know they stated it is SO if you are going to make it endgame then do not have the same boring ass maps every single time with absolutely NO consequences to the PvP....

The irony is that a game like, for example, WoW has no endgame in my opinion. You simply get funnelled into minimal content, whatever the latest raid is, where you run on the treadmill until you get all the carrots or get worn out just to wait for the next raid. The illusion of progression is comical. People think they're progressing their characters, getting more powerful, yet the next raid is amped up such that they're back to being mediocre once again, then back on the treadmill. But there are those that call this "endgame", so run in place they do.

I see endgame differently however. In GW2, there's the entire world to explore, and beyond the basic map completions there's so much hidden content waiting to be discovered, with the next batch of new hidden stuff, more jumping puzzles, mini-dungeons (open world type), etc. all coming... Monday if I recall. Last night in WvW there was someone running around with Twilight, one of the legendary greatswords. Man, I haven't even started focusing on legendaries yet. Nor have I started explorable mode dungeons... WvW lately has sucked up most of my playing time when I'm not levelling an alt with my kids.

In a nutshell, endgame in GW2 differs because, simply, the game doesn't end. You're not forced into that one latest raid ad nauseum chasing that one piece of stat boosting gear over and over that the hunter always rolls on and wins. (Don't get me started there... or when I lost the crit trinket to a ret pally...) No matter where you go, there more and new to see. At any level! You never leave entire sections of the world permanently behind you.

 It is all a perspective of how you play and how you figure things is it not?  Wow has done a huge amount right as far as end game is concerned, my reasoning is because of how many people put their hands up by playing the game for so long.  So many people trash Wow on these forums but so many people played it and at least supported it at some stage.  As much as i wish people would move on from that game to pressure Blizzard to move on, it just is  not happening.....

 Guild Wars 2 is a quality release but it falls short of what i would consider acclaim worthy. If i was to give a couple of examples...thier pvp...one game just falls into another and if you lose..well who cares your next game has already started, kind of makes it meaningless.  There seem to already be a lot of bots in game and i have reported ones with names like ppdgdgdt and they seem to travel in groups of 3 or 4. Please understand i am not hating on GW2 and i recommend new people to try it but it falls short of awesome.

 

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

10/19/12 10:17:59 AM#338
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Volkon

The irony is that a game like, for example, WoW has no endgame in my opinion. You simply get funnelled into minimal content, whatever the latest raid is, where you run on the treadmill until you get all the carrots or get worn out just to wait for the next raid. The illusion of progression is comical. People think they're progressing their characters, getting more powerful, yet the next raid is amped up such that they're back to being mediocre once again, then back on the treadmill. But there are those that call this "endgame", so run in place they do.

And you'll have those people certify you that farming the same raid boss for the 50st time to get that last epic drop, which will be made completely obsolete in the next patch, is fun. Been there, done that myself... raiding CAN be fun when done with the right people, but the repetition is mindnumbing no matter how you put it. Problem is, you feel that you have to keep on going on raids to help the 24 other people who were less lucky than you with drops. It's all about the hamster wheel, the threadmill, the pavlov dog reflex too.

And then comes the next patch, obliterating all your actual gear, and requiring you to start over from scratch.

I like GW2 because there's no mendatory task to do 3+ days a week for 3+ hours at least to remain competitive. I can log in 1 hour a week, or 8 hours a day, I will still not be canon fodder, be it PvE or PvP wise. I can go AFK for a month, and my guildies won't have overgeared me during that time to the point that I'm useless until I catch up.

Oh I agree fully. Raided quite extensively up until Cata was about to be released. People were excited for five more levels, new dungeons, new raids... but by then GW2 news was beginning to flow and I could no longer justify the race to the lastest level solely for the latest raids yet again. It stopped being the fun it had... somewhere along the line this "endgame" had become work. I just... never logged in again, and surprisingly didn't miss it and still haven't. I don't even think of "endgame" in GW2 as "endgame" by definition... I can now do what I want when I want. No more funneling into minimal content with shinier purples. I've actually reached a conclusion regarding WoW players (and other carrot-on-a-stick players)...

 

WoW players are skritt.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that skritt are a subtle jab at carrot on a stick players, always chasing shinies, never happy, needing more.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  IPolygon

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 709

10/19/12 10:19:42 AM#339
Some reviews are good, others not so much. It deserves the critical acclaim if it is actually critical.
  User Deleted
10/19/12 10:21:02 AM#340
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by Volkon

 

And you'll have those people certify you that farming the same raid boss for the 50st time to get that last epic drop, which will be made completely obsolete in the next patch, is fun. Been there, done that myself... raiding CAN be fun when done with the right people, but the repetition is mindnumbing no matter how you put it. Problem is, you feel that you have to keep on going on raids to help the 24 other people who were less lucky than you with drops. It's all about the hamster wheel, the threadmill, the pavlov dog reflex too.

And then comes the next patch, obliterating all your actual gear, and requiring you to start over from scratch.

I like GW2 because there's no mendatory task to do 3+ days a week for 3+ hours at least to remain competitive. I can log in 1 hour a week, or 8 hours a day, I will still not be canon fodder, be it PvE or PvP wise. I can go AFK for a month, and my guildies won't have overgeared me during that time to the point that I'm useless until I catch up.

People are doing the same, repetitive, isolated and non persistent content in order to get "stuffz" in GW2, it's just that the "stuffz" is purely cosmetic. Whilst that seems an improvement, it doesn't exactly seem worth writing home about.

 

When they release a new dungeon with new tokens and skins, people will grind away at it and then wait for the next.

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