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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Back to the drawing board?

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48 posts found
  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

10/14/12 7:14:53 AM#21
They probably had a lot they were gonna roll out after announcement but pulled back to regroup after the poor initial response they recieved. They are likely scrambling for some hook to reel all us fish in. Although sink or swim, let's face it they already have our money.

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2651

10/14/12 7:41:36 AM#22
Originally posted by xmenty
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by xmenty

This is my personal opinion from observation of TESO info.

I do not really feel excited about it.

Firstly they make Hero Engines as a guideline for their MMO.

You could see from the game graphics look more dated than Skyrim.  

2013 launch day and there is still not a single gameplay video yet?

The vibes from Dev video, seems to me that they lack confident and excitement at their own product.

I just felt that they had fk it up and trying to salvage a lot of stuff hence the silence.

Hence, they had to bring in Todd Howard to salvage the mess they had make. 

Just want to point out that 

a) This game has been in development since before Skyrim even began development. So yes, the game is technically more dated anyway.

Then Archeage and Blade & Soul should have the same dated graphics like TESO?

Completely different engines. Different engine = different looks.

b) its not being made by the same people who made Skyrim, or any of the TES games. Of course its not going to look the same

Doesn't matter who make the game. The only thing matter whether did they employ the right person to do the job.

Does a car made by one company look exactly like a car made by a different company? No. Does that mean one of those cars is bad and the engineers / designers didnt do their job?

c) Its an MMO, not a single player game. When have you ever seen an MMO that has better graphics than some of the best looking single player games created around the same time? Theres technical reasons for this. If you want an MMO that is unplayable when more than a few people are together, then yeah they could make MMOs that look as good as Skyrim.

Have you seen the difference graphic update by the game that are going to launch in 2013 yet? This game is not made by some unknown indie company. They have the budget to push the tech to be better than GW2, Archeage or Blade & Soul. 

Again this comes down to different engines running the games. If TESO used the same engine of either of those, it would look just as good. Just like there are some games coming out soon that look amazing, others dont look so great. Does that make them bad games? Only if you think graphics are everything. There have always been games that look amazing, but play like complete crap. Id rather have gameplay over graphics. 

d) We're not even in 2013. It could be a full year + away. Plenty of games dont have gameplay vids yet when still over a year away from launch. Some of you seem to interpret a launch in 2013 as "its launching at the beggining of 2013"

Gamescom 2010: Guild Wars 2 Presentation gameplay video on 21 Aug 2010 - Launched date 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VLpW8DCXbo

Archeage gameplay preview 9 Jul 2010 - Launch date 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ARqR4nftHA

I didnt say no game ever has released gameplay videos ahead of time. Just that there are plenty of games that dont release them until very close to release, like in beta stage. Thats a simple fact. Not every company operates the same way. in GW2's case, the gameplay itself was already pretty much completed, the time between those videos and release was adding new features and making some tweaks to the game. in TESOs case, we dont really know what stage theyre at in development yet. Perhaps they dont have the engine and gameplay mechanics fully functioning yet. It isnt even in alpha as far as we know, and there has been no mention of one coming anytime soon. What would be the point of releasing gameplay videos from a game pre-alpha that for all we know could change drastically.

 

 

You need to have confident in your products.

I agree. They seemed to be confident at first, but not so much anymore. Hopefully that means theyre reconsidering at least a few changes and dont want to show one thing, then wind up coming out with another.

 

 

 

 

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

10/14/12 7:54:11 AM#23

They are developing this game for years and it is in late production stage.  So it is almost certain that they are not going to  change game core design.   They may change some things, but not game fundaments.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/14/12 8:15:44 AM#24
Having fps quality graphics in a mmo a.d the associated minimum system requirements limits your population on a mmo. Just ask funcom or bluehole.
  Galadourn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1055

 
OP  10/14/12 8:15:55 AM#25
I'd bet most of those 5 years in development were spent on the game engine and designing the world. They still have time to re-do even basic concepts of the game, if they see that the market is getting saturated; which, now with the launch of GW2, is...

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

10/17/12 9:17:51 AM#26
Originally posted by Galadourn
Do you think the negative reaction of the MMO community at the announcement of TESO has forced Zenimax back to the drawing board to redesign core aspects of the game? It's been 4 months of almost complete radio silence. 

yes but two things to keep in mind.

1. they will try to patch it and the features they try to patch may or may not work. I have seen FPV view done by modding community on Neverwinter and it really wasnt any good, expect something like that.

2. they have demonstrated that they will never do what is ultimatly best for business which is admit they did wrong and explictly state they will do al they can to make it right, they will instead approach it like a poltician and say things like 'what? no we never said that we here is FPV view isnt it cool?"

Correlation does not imply causation

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17380

10/17/12 9:19:49 AM#27
Originally posted by Galadourn
Do you think the negative reaction of the MMO community at the announcement of TESO has forced Zenimax back to the drawing board to redesign core aspects of the game? It's been 4 months of almost complete radio silence. 

No, I don't think there is negative reaction from the greater mmo community. There is negative reaction from Elder Scrolls fans.

  Galadourn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1055

 
OP  10/17/12 9:22:16 AM#28
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Galadourn
Do you think the negative reaction of the MMO community at the announcement of TESO has forced Zenimax back to the drawing board to redesign core aspects of the game? It's been 4 months of almost complete radio silence. 

No, I don't think there is negative reaction from the greater mmo community. There is negative reaction from Elder Scrolls fans.

well, many of the Elder scrolls fans also happen to be MMO players. There was plenty of outcry in various fora when the first sneak peek went public.

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7173

10/17/12 9:25:40 AM#29


Originally posted by Galadourn

well, many of the Elder scrolls fans also happen to be MMO players.

Source..?

However, those are still very minor subset of total MMO players.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17380

10/17/12 9:29:21 AM#30
Originally posted by Galadourn
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Galadourn
Do you think the negative reaction of the MMO community at the announcement of TESO has forced Zenimax back to the drawing board to redesign core aspects of the game? It's been 4 months of almost complete radio silence. 

No, I don't think there is negative reaction from the greater mmo community. There is negative reaction from Elder Scrolls fans.

well, many of the Elder scrolls fans also happen to be MMO players. There was plenty of outcry in various fora when the first sneak peek went public.

Ok, so mmo players who are elder scrolls fans are also the people having a negative reaction. I think mmo players who are not elderscrolls fans won't care one way or the other (unless they are staunch supporters of sandbox games or some other faction in the mmo community) and will look at it as just another mmo.

Personally, I'm an elder scrolls fan who plays mmos and I'm indifferent to the game.

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 725

10/17/12 12:42:33 PM#31
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Galadourn
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Galadourn
Do you think the negative reaction of the MMO community at the announcement of TESO has forced Zenimax back to the drawing board to redesign core aspects of the game? It's been 4 months of almost complete radio silence. 

No, I don't think there is negative reaction from the greater mmo community. There is negative reaction from Elder Scrolls fans.

well, many of the Elder scrolls fans also happen to be MMO players. There was plenty of outcry in various fora when the first sneak peek went public.

Ok, so mmo players who are elder scrolls fans are also the people having a negative reaction. I think mmo players who are not elderscrolls fans won't care one way or the other (unless they are staunch supporters of sandbox games or some other faction in the mmo community) and will look at it as just another mmo.

Personally, I'm an elder scrolls fan who plays mmos and I'm indifferent to the game.

You are Paul Sage's worst nightmare!

"The last thing we want is for people not to be talking about, because that means they don't care." - Paul Sage, Creative Director, Elder Scrolls Online

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/17/12 12:46:19 PM#32
The majority of tes fans are not mmo players.

70% of skyrim sales were on console. 80% of oblivion sales were on console. That's why they have such an awful consolesque user interface. Your going back to Morrowind for there being a bigger pc audience, and even then many people played it because it wasn't a mmo (with it being deep in the period of wow total dominance)
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/17/12 12:51:24 PM#33
If anything the outcry is making the game more wow clone.

When they first announced it, it was all open dungeons, open world, rvr endgame etc..

Since the outcry it looks like zenimax have panicked and told them to "wowify" it so they get sales. E.g. since then we hear about tupperware pvp and raids.

So well done with your self fulfilling prophecy the "swtor 2" guys. You've just gone a guaranteed a whole heap of producer interferance, and if there's one thing suits like to do its copy the big guy.
  adam_nox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2072

10/17/12 12:54:00 PM#34
Originally posted by ShakyMo
The majority of tes fans are not mmo players.

70% of skyrim sales were on console. 80% of oblivion sales were on console. That's why they have such an awful consolesque user interface. Your going back to Morrowind for there being a bigger pc audience, and even then many people played it because it wasn't a mmo (with it being deep in the period of wow total dominance)

Uh, you are backwards.

1.  The games sell better on consoles because consoles are pervasive and gaming computers are dying out.

2.  Morrowind was back in 01 or 02, no where near WoW's time.  When WoW came out, morrowind was mostly forgotten.

3.  Oblivion was developed for PC first, then for xbox, then for ps3, it's interface has nothing to do with consoles. 

4.  The consensus is that skyrim's interface is brilliant.  If you haven't played it on a console I would suggest you try it. 

 

The truth is, big relaxed open world experiences are better with gamepads and couches where you can relax for long periods of time, rather than short bursts hunched over a computer screen. 

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2592

10/17/12 12:59:18 PM#35
Originally posted by Galadourn
Do you think the negative reaction of the MMO community at the announcement of TESO has forced Zenimax back to the drawing board to redesign core aspects of the game? It's been 4 months of almost complete radio silence. 

Negative reactions never helped SWTOR get fixed, or any other WoW clone before it.

I can only see one way for this game to work, axe instances and scripted quest based leveling. Make it actually feel different from WoW. The lead dev spoke praises for public dungeons and then says "don't worry, we'll have instances and phasing too!" because god forbid they actually make an MMO. I suspect the publishers are behind that decision.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2592

10/17/12 1:01:41 PM#36
Originally posted by adam_nox
Originally posted by ShakyMo
The majority of tes fans are not mmo players.

70% of skyrim sales were on console. 80% of oblivion sales were on console. That's why they have such an awful consolesque user interface. Your going back to Morrowind for there being a bigger pc audience, and even then many people played it because it wasn't a mmo (with it being deep in the period of wow total dominance)

3.  Oblivion was developed for PC first, then for xbox, then for ps3, it's interface has nothing to do with consoles. 

4.  The consensus is that skyrim's interface is brilliant.  If you haven't played it on a console I would suggest you try it.

Hahahahah no.

Oblivion was developed as a launch title for the 360 first and foremost. Morrowind was on the xbox and Bethesda agreed to make their next game for the xbox. It's interface was a huge step backwards compared to Morrowind's on the PC. It was pretty freaking awful.

But nowhere near as bad as Skyrim's UI.

Skyrim has an ok UI for a console but quite possibly one of the worst PC RPG UI's in the history of gaming.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/11/14/user-interfarce-skyrims-silly-choices/

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17380

10/17/12 1:05:46 PM#37
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Galadourn
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Galadourn
Do you think the negative reaction of the MMO community at the announcement of TESO has forced Zenimax back to the drawing board to redesign core aspects of the game? It's been 4 months of almost complete radio silence. 

No, I don't think there is negative reaction from the greater mmo community. There is negative reaction from Elder Scrolls fans.

well, many of the Elder scrolls fans also happen to be MMO players. There was plenty of outcry in various fora when the first sneak peek went public.

Ok, so mmo players who are elder scrolls fans are also the people having a negative reaction. I think mmo players who are not elderscrolls fans won't care one way or the other (unless they are staunch supporters of sandbox games or some other faction in the mmo community) and will look at it as just another mmo.

Personally, I'm an elder scrolls fan who plays mmos and I'm indifferent to the game.

You are Paul Sage's worst nightmare!

"The last thing we want is for people not to be talking about, because that means they don't care." - Paul Sage, Creative Director, Elder Scrolls Online

In that case "let him dream of scary things, darkest hours, blackest wings!"

If they made another game I would be all over this. As it is, I'm not really all that drawn to what I've seen.

I played morrowind heavily for 2 years and still dip into it. I played Oblvion from the time it was released to the release of skyrim. I have 436 hours in Skyrim so far.

When it gets closer to beta I might sign up to do some testing and give my input but othe rthan that and talking about it on this forum, I really don't think about the game.

  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2438

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

10/17/12 1:09:39 PM#38
Originally posted by Zylaxx

Nope, I think TESo will be an amazing game and quite possibly a sleeper hit.  Alot of elements make sense and are stuff that gamers ahve been asking for, for a long time. 

 

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

I hope it is. I never played TES and haven't really followed TESo, but if they do RvR right and make it as fun as the Old Frontiers were in DAOC, I'm in. I had hopes with GW2 WvsW, but it seems they really don't have a good handle on it. Nothing worse than the ques and then when you finally do get in, not able to see everyone out on the battlefield because they can't figure out how to make it possible. Been looking for the Old Frontiers type of RvR DAOC had for years now, and nothing has came close, sadly.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 725

10/17/12 1:12:16 PM#39
Originally posted by adam_nox
Originally posted by ShakyMo
The majority of tes fans are not mmo players.

70% of skyrim sales were on console. 80% of oblivion sales were on console. That's why they have such an awful consolesque user interface. Your going back to Morrowind for there being a bigger pc audience, and even then many people played it because it wasn't a mmo (with it being deep in the period of wow total dominance)

Uh, you are backwards.

1.  The games sell better on consoles because consoles are pervasive and gaming computers are dying out.

2.  Morrowind was back in 01 or 02, no where near WoW's time.  When WoW came out, morrowind was mostly forgotten.

3.  Oblivion was developed for PC first, then for xbox, then for ps3, it's interface has nothing to do with consoles. 

4.  The consensus is that skyrim's interface is brilliant.  If you haven't played it on a console I would suggest you try it. 

 

The truth is, big relaxed open world experiences are better with gamepads and couches where you can relax for long periods of time, rather than short bursts hunched over a computer screen. 

Oh god let's not start a platform war.  Console games r best!  PC games are bestest!  No.  Stop.  There is no better or worse, just preference.

1. This is true and will always be true as long as consoles are cheaper and easier to use than gaming PCs.

2. Morrowind (released in 2002) was pretty popular, breaking 4 million lifetime sales which is not bad for a PC only game from that era.  Half-Life is arguably one of the most popular, released in 1998 and has sold approximately a million a year up until 2008.

3. Yes, BGS only got the 360 hardware 6 months before their launch date, which meant they really had to scramble to get it all ported over.  That being said, 360 had by far the largest market share.  PS3 is tough to judge because that version wasn't out for another 2 and a half years.

4. A lot of people liked that interface, it was great for console, but not for PC, which is why one of the first mods available was an interface overhaul, to make it more accessible, informative and user-friendly.  On PC the interface was bad, but it is very hard to cater to both PC and console-players.  The choice is obvious when the market share is so dispirate. 

All this being said, there is no accounting for cross-platformers.  I can't think of a single friend of mine who doesn't own a PC and a console, or a Mac and a console (remember TESO is coming to mac as well).  They may not have the top-of-the-line gaming rigs.  They may not play games primarily on their computer, but it is sitting there, and if they are fans of TES, even casually, they may in fact check out TESO.  Guaranteed, they will be mightily disappointed with what they find.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17380

10/17/12 1:15:42 PM#40
Originally posted by adam_nox
 

Uh, you are backwards.


4.  The consensus is that skyrim's interface is brilliant.  If you haven't played it on a console I would suggest you try it. 

 

The truth is, big relaxed open world experiences are better with gamepads and couches where you can relax for long periods of time, rather than short bursts hunched over a computer screen. 

Really? the horrible UI that is laggy and if you pick a dialoge option or option on a list it sometimes shoots to the next one?

The constant scrolling through a long list of items in your inventory?

The need to close out the inventory screen, go back into the game, then hit tab again to bring up the choices so that I can get into spells/magic.

Perhaps you were saying that it's brilliiant on a console? Though I don't see how the above mentioned items would be different.

I also disagree with your last statement though I suppose that's just preference. Both my roommate and I (he only plays elder scrolls games, isn't a gamer) prefer our comfortable desk chairs over lounging on a couch playing games.

If I'm louning on a couch I'm watching a movie, not sitting in an ergonomically correct posture that allows me to be active in a game.

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