Being against everything that is popular is allowing someone else to crontrol your likes and dislikes. It is also "Not thinking for yourself" when you get right down too it.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Not because you disagree but because your entire post was you stating how superior your likes are and eveyone else is as  commoner with no ability to think and just wants to be like you.

It's ok to not like something, what you did is to insult everyone who doesn't like what you like.

Recognize the difference between disagreeing with someone and insulting them.

Incorrect...did I insult players that play Darfall?  not really...I actuall respect them quite a bit, yet my sig will tell you that I just can't play that game (although i did try)...how about fans of Doom metal?  Not my favorite, but I realize that it's a lost art and that those who like it have to be respected because they researched and found it.  it wasn't there for them with open arms...we are a "convenience" ran society now in all aspects and people now "expect" it...its kinda disguisting.....

Yes, you see my avatar and know from my name that I am a true Frederick Bastiat and Ayn Rand apprentice (so to speak)....but that's only because I researched, found them and compared them to others I have researched (plato, marx, the beatles for gods sakes) and decided that they made the most sense.  All I ask is not to succumb to the disease that is the pop culture.  My best friend and guitarist in my band is an extreme liberal/socialist...but he can backup his claims....all you have done is call me crazy...

 I didn't say or imply you insulted everyone that plays games.  I said you insulted everyone that doesn't like what you like, everyone disagrees with you. 

If someone likes WoW or swtor or any other modern game that you feel is a "pop culture game" this is what you said about them.

" bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people"

"They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level."

"even worse"

"easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included."

"gotten to this (low) level "

"such a plague ruin our exhistence"

 

How is this not an insult.  The only thing they did is like something you dont' like.  The only thing you know about them is they like a game you don't.

edit - face it, what we call the pop culture is not just a bunch of mindless sheep being told what to like that many people think.  Rather humans have many many many commonalities, we have 97% of the same DNA, we all live in the same world with very similar stressors.  It is likley that many mnay many people genuinely like similar things.  Is chocolate and vanilla the most common ice cream because of pop culture or people telling them to like it.  No, people just like it. 

I ddn't like Darkfall though....I only respected the idea presented....point denied

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Originally posted by Randayn

The fact of the matter is both sides can go too far. As for me, I like the Foo Fighters, a band that has pop hits but has a little art in them as well. I like the secret world, an MMO that doesn't completely re-invent the wheel but at the same time, tries to be it's own game, not completely copying what is currently out there.

 

have to ask dude....do you know who the guitarist of the Foo Fighters originally played for?   One of my favorite bands!

Yeah, Dave Grohl drummed for Nirvana. I remember getting bleach from a friend (not the same drummer on that recording) and enjoying it's rawness. I was pleasantly surprised when they made it big.

I really enjoyed Floyd the Barber, School, Swap meet on bleach. On Nevermind, along with the hits I really like Territorial pissing and On a Plain.

(To be honest I liked most songs on both albums)

nah, Im talkin bout Pat Smear :)

I am pretty sure he played for Nirvana as well :)

(I actually don't know that much about the germs)

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Being against everything that is popular is allowing someone else to crontrol your likes and dislikes. It is also "Not thinking for yourself" when you get right down too it.

 

 Hear hear Johnie. 

I use to date a girl that would only listen to an smallish local radio station because they only played indie songs.  Whenever she would listen to one of the more popular bands on the radio she would say something like, "how can you listen to that crap."  One of her favorite singers was Teagan and Sara.  Then low and behold won of there older songs (not the newer ones so you can't say they sold out) was played on a popular and big radio station, she hated them from that moment on.

I can't stand that attitude.  She wasn't thinking for herself, she was letting other people, in this case the radio dictate what she liked. 

We broke up :)

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Being against everything that is popular is allowing someone else to crontrol your likes and dislikes. It is also "Not thinking for yourself" when you get right down too it.

 

I like soft pretzels and ice cream....I don't hate what's popular.....I hate what's generic and baseless....mindless and mundane.  

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Not because you disagree but because your entire post was you stating how superior your likes are and eveyone else is as  commoner with no ability to think and just wants to be like you.

It's ok to not like something, what you did is to insult everyone who doesn't like what you like.

Recognize the difference between disagreeing with someone and insulting them.

Incorrect...did I insult players that play Darfall?  not really...I actuall respect them quite a bit, yet my sig will tell you that I just can't play that game (although i did try)...how about fans of Doom metal?  Not my favorite, but I realize that it's a lost art and that those who like it have to be respected because they researched and found it.  it wasn't there for them with open arms...we are a "convenience" ran society now in all aspects and people now "expect" it...its kinda disguisting.....

Yes, you see my avatar and know from my name that I am a true Frederick Bastiat and Ayn Rand apprentice (so to speak)....but that's only because I researched, found them and compared them to others I have researched (plato, marx, the beatles for gods sakes) and decided that they made the most sense.  All I ask is not to succumb to the disease that is the pop culture.  My best friend and guitarist in my band is an extreme liberal/socialist...but he can backup his claims....all you have done is call me crazy...

 I didn't say or imply you insulted everyone that plays games.  I said you insulted everyone that doesn't like what you like, everyone disagrees with you. 

If someone likes WoW or swtor or any other modern game that you feel is a "pop culture game" this is what you said about them.

" bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people"

"They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level."

"even worse"

"easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included."

"gotten to this (low) level "

"such a plague ruin our exhistence"

 

How is this not an insult.  The only thing they did is like something you dont' like.  The only thing you know about them is they like a game you don't.

edit - face it, what we call the pop culture is not just a bunch of mindless sheep being told what to like that many people think.  Rather humans have many many many commonalities, we have 97% of the same DNA, we all live in the same world with very similar stressors.  It is likley that many mnay many people genuinely like similar things.  Is chocolate and vanilla the most common ice cream because of pop culture or people telling them to like it.  No, people just like it. 

I ddn't like Darkfall though....I only respected the idea presented....point denied

 So darkfall is the exception, point still stands for other games/beliefs/attitudes.

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Originally posted by Randayn

The fact of the matter is both sides can go too far. As for me, I like the Foo Fighters, a band that has pop hits but has a little art in them as well. I like the secret world, an MMO that doesn't completely re-invent the wheel but at the same time, tries to be it's own game, not completely copying what is currently out there.

 

have to ask dude....do you know who the guitarist of the Foo Fighters originally played for?   One of my favorite bands!

Yeah, Dave Grohl drummed for Nirvana. I remember getting bleach from a friend (not the same drummer on that recording) and enjoying it's rawness. I was pleasantly surprised when they made it big.

I really enjoyed Floyd the Barber, School, Swap meet on bleach. On Nevermind, along with the hits I really like Territorial pissing and On a Plain.

(To be honest I liked most songs on both albums)

nah, Im talkin bout Pat Smear :)

I am pretty sure he played for Nirvana as well :)

(I actually don't know that much about the germs)

you should definitaley check out the Germs dude...I think you'd like them man!!!!

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Originally posted by Randayn

The fact of the matter is both sides can go too far. As for me, I like the Foo Fighters, a band that has pop hits but has a little art in them as well. I like the secret world, an MMO that doesn't completely re-invent the wheel but at the same time, tries to be it's own game, not completely copying what is currently out there.

 

have to ask dude....do you know who the guitarist of the Foo Fighters originally played for?   One of my favorite bands!

Yeah, Dave Grohl drummed for Nirvana. I remember getting bleach from a friend (not the same drummer on that recording) and enjoying it's rawness. I was pleasantly surprised when they made it big.

I really enjoyed Floyd the Barber, School, Swap meet on bleach. On Nevermind, along with the hits I really like Territorial pissing and On a Plain.

(To be honest I liked most songs on both albums)

nah, Im talkin bout Pat Smear :)

I am pretty sure he played for Nirvana as well :)

(I actually don't know that much about the germs)

you should definitaley check out the Germs dude...I think you'd like them man!!!!

Thanks, I will

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Being against everything that is popular is allowing someone else to crontrol your likes and dislikes. It is also "Not thinking for yourself" when you get right down too it.

 

I like soft pretzels and ice cream....I don't hate what's popular.....I hate what's generic and baseless....mindless and mundane.  

 Who decides whats generic baseless mindless and mundane?  The older generation hated Elvis when he started, same with the beatles.  Mozart was the subject of major criticism in his day.

Your tastes are not superior.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Not because you disagree but because your entire post was you stating how superior your likes are and eveyone else is as  commoner with no ability to think and just wants to be like you.

It's ok to not like something, what you did is to insult everyone who doesn't like what you like.

Recognize the difference between disagreeing with someone and insulting them.

Incorrect...did I insult players that play Darfall?  not really...I actuall respect them quite a bit, yet my sig will tell you that I just can't play that game (although i did try)...how about fans of Doom metal?  Not my favorite, but I realize that it's a lost art and that those who like it have to be respected because they researched and found it.  it wasn't there for them with open arms...we are a "convenience" ran society now in all aspects and people now "expect" it...its kinda disguisting.....

Yes, you see my avatar and know from my name that I am a true Frederick Bastiat and Ayn Rand apprentice (so to speak)....but that's only because I researched, found them and compared them to others I have researched (plato, marx, the beatles for gods sakes) and decided that they made the most sense.  All I ask is not to succumb to the disease that is the pop culture.  My best friend and guitarist in my band is an extreme liberal/socialist...but he can backup his claims....all you have done is call me crazy...

 I didn't say or imply you insulted everyone that plays games.  I said you insulted everyone that doesn't like what you like, everyone disagrees with you. 

If someone likes WoW or swtor or any other modern game that you feel is a "pop culture game" this is what you said about them.

" bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people"

"They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level."

"even worse"

"easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included."

"gotten to this (low) level "

"such a plague ruin our exhistence"

 

How is this not an insult.  The only thing they did is like something you dont' like.  The only thing you know about them is they like a game you don't.

edit - face it, what we call the pop culture is not just a bunch of mindless sheep being told what to like that many people think.  Rather humans have many many many commonalities, we have 97% of the same DNA, we all live in the same world with very similar stressors.  It is likley that many mnay many people genuinely like similar things.  Is chocolate and vanilla the most common ice cream because of pop culture or people telling them to like it.  No, people just like it. 

I ddn't like Darkfall though....I only respected the idea presented....point denied

 So darkfall is the exception, point still stands for other games/beliefs/attitudes.

I think your attempts at reverse psychology are feeble at best.  I like what I like because I like them....I dont focus on outside opinion.   Whether you want to or not, the minute you turn your tv on or listen to your friend talk about the weather or what they are going to paint their wall the next day, you immediately accept that as the most important things in life....this is the pop culture...you can deny it all you want, but just look around you....credit is the new gold, fashion is the new frugal and "pragmatic" is the new realistic/rational.  It's the way masses mold the minions....

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Being against everything that is popular is allowing someone else to crontrol your likes and dislikes. It is also "Not thinking for yourself" when you get right down too it.

 

I like soft pretzels and ice cream....I don't hate what's popular.....I hate what's generic and baseless....mindless and mundane.  

 Who decides whats generic baseless mindless and mundane?  The older generation hated Elvis when he started, same with the beatles.  Mozart was the subject of major criticism in his day.

Your tastes are not superior.

the beatles and mozart were great because they made their own music...just as anyone before or after them have done.

Elvis, on the other hand, is only credited for writing one of his songs (Ain't nothing but a hound dog..a very memorable song, was written by "Big Momma Thornton" in the late 1920's...reasearch guides me...nothing else), which was a forgetful song at best.  Yet people deem him the "king of rock'n'roll".....what happened to Chuck Berry?

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Not because you disagree but because your entire post was you stating how superior your likes are and eveyone else is as  commoner with no ability to think and just wants to be like you.

It's ok to not like something, what you did is to insult everyone who doesn't like what you like.

Recognize the difference between disagreeing with someone and insulting them.

Incorrect...did I insult players that play Darfall?  not really...I actuall respect them quite a bit, yet my sig will tell you that I just can't play that game (although i did try)...how about fans of Doom metal?  Not my favorite, but I realize that it's a lost art and that those who like it have to be respected because they researched and found it.  it wasn't there for them with open arms...we are a "convenience" ran society now in all aspects and people now "expect" it...its kinda disguisting.....

Yes, you see my avatar and know from my name that I am a true Frederick Bastiat and Ayn Rand apprentice (so to speak)....but that's only because I researched, found them and compared them to others I have researched (plato, marx, the beatles for gods sakes) and decided that they made the most sense.  All I ask is not to succumb to the disease that is the pop culture.  My best friend and guitarist in my band is an extreme liberal/socialist...but he can backup his claims....all you have done is call me crazy...

 I didn't say or imply you insulted everyone that plays games.  I said you insulted everyone that doesn't like what you like, everyone disagrees with you. 

If someone likes WoW or swtor or any other modern game that you feel is a "pop culture game" this is what you said about them.

" bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people"

"They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level."

"even worse"

"easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included."

"gotten to this (low) level "

"such a plague ruin our exhistence"

 

How is this not an insult.  The only thing they did is like something you dont' like.  The only thing you know about them is they like a game you don't.

edit - face it, what we call the pop culture is not just a bunch of mindless sheep being told what to like that many people think.  Rather humans have many many many commonalities, we have 97% of the same DNA, we all live in the same world with very similar stressors.  It is likley that many mnay many people genuinely like similar things.  Is chocolate and vanilla the most common ice cream because of pop culture or people telling them to like it.  No, people just like it. 

I ddn't like Darkfall though....I only respected the idea presented....point denied

 So darkfall is the exception, point still stands for other games/beliefs/attitudes.

I think your attempts at reverse psychology are feeble at best.  I like what I like because I like them....I dont focus on outside opinion.   Whether you want to or not, the minute you turn your tv on or listen to your friend talk about the weather or what they are going to paint their wall the next day, you immediately accept that as the most important things in life....this is the pop culture...you can deny it all you want, but just look around you....credit is the new gold, fashion is the new frugal and "pragmatic" is the new realistic/rational.  It's the way masses mold the minions....

 There is no reverse psychology being used.  I didn't start that or imply you were being influenced by it.

Yo say you like what you like because you like them, and dont' focus on outside opinion.  Great good for you, why don't you extend others the same courtesy until you have evidence that the individual did not do that. 

Yes people are influened by what goes on around.  No Most do not immediately accept that as the most important things in life.  I think you find that most people are actually more discerning than that. 

The pop culture is nothing more than what the majority likes. 

Credit has always been important back to babylon days, fashion has always figured in sociey back to babylon days, and people have always had a pragmatic sense. This is nothing new, they are as hold as humanity itself.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Not because you disagree but because your entire post was you stating how superior your likes are and eveyone else is as  commoner with no ability to think and just wants to be like you.

It's ok to not like something, what you did is to insult everyone who doesn't like what you like.

Recognize the difference between disagreeing with someone and insulting them.

Incorrect...did I insult players that play Darfall?  not really...I actuall respect them quite a bit, yet my sig will tell you that I just can't play that game (although i did try)...how about fans of Doom metal?  Not my favorite, but I realize that it's a lost art and that those who like it have to be respected because they researched and found it.  it wasn't there for them with open arms...we are a "convenience" ran society now in all aspects and people now "expect" it...its kinda disguisting.....

Yes, you see my avatar and know from my name that I am a true Frederick Bastiat and Ayn Rand apprentice (so to speak)....but that's only because I researched, found them and compared them to others I have researched (plato, marx, the beatles for gods sakes) and decided that they made the most sense.  All I ask is not to succumb to the disease that is the pop culture.  My best friend and guitarist in my band is an extreme liberal/socialist...but he can backup his claims....all you have done is call me crazy...

 I didn't say or imply you insulted everyone that plays games.  I said you insulted everyone that doesn't like what you like, everyone disagrees with you. 

If someone likes WoW or swtor or any other modern game that you feel is a "pop culture game" this is what you said about them.

" bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people"

"They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level."

"even worse"

"easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included."

"gotten to this (low) level "

"such a plague ruin our exhistence"

 

How is this not an insult.  The only thing they did is like something you dont' like.  The only thing you know about them is they like a game you don't.

edit - face it, what we call the pop culture is not just a bunch of mindless sheep being told what to like that many people think.  Rather humans have many many many commonalities, we have 97% of the same DNA, we all live in the same world with very similar stressors.  It is likley that many mnay many people genuinely like similar things.  Is chocolate and vanilla the most common ice cream because of pop culture or people telling them to like it.  No, people just like it. 

I ddn't like Darkfall though....I only respected the idea presented....point denied

 So darkfall is the exception, point still stands for other games/beliefs/attitudes.

I think your attempts at reverse psychology are feeble at best.  I like what I like because I like them....I dont focus on outside opinion.   Whether you want to or not, the minute you turn your tv on or listen to your friend talk about the weather or what they are going to paint their wall the next day, you immediately accept that as the most important things in life....this is the pop culture...you can deny it all you want, but just look around you....credit is the new gold, fashion is the new frugal and "pragmatic" is the new realistic/rational.  It's the way masses mold the minions....

 There is no reverse psychology being used.  I didn't start that or imply you were being influenced by it.

Yo say you like what you like because you like them, and dont' focus on outside opinion.  Great good for you, why don't you extend others the same courtesy until you have evidence that the individual did not do that. 

Yes people are influened by what goes on around.  No Most do not immediately accept that as the most important things in life.  I think you find that most people are actually more discerning than that. 

The pop culture is nothing more than what the majority likes. 

Credit has always been important back to babylon days, fashion has always figured in sociey back to babylon days, and people have always had a pragmatic sense. This is nothing new, they are as hold as humanity itself.

actuallly, credit didnt become king in America until the early 1900's...even then it didnt have good footing until Nixon claimed "We're all Kaynsians Now".....fashion is something Robespierre raved about and I still despise it to this day....Im more worried about the detail of though than the detail of look (I know this is just opinion.)  Pragmatic is the most objectiveless way of thinking you could come across....Pragmatic  = "well it has four legs and a stable top that connects them all so it seems like a chair, but what we need now is a table, so, for pragmatic reasons only, we'll call it a table.

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Not because you disagree but because your entire post was you stating how superior your likes are and eveyone else is as  commoner with no ability to think and just wants to be like you.

It's ok to not like something, what you did is to insult everyone who doesn't like what you like.

Recognize the difference between disagreeing with someone and insulting them.

Incorrect...did I insult players that play Darfall?  not really...I actuall respect them quite a bit, yet my sig will tell you that I just can't play that game (although i did try)...how about fans of Doom metal?  Not my favorite, but I realize that it's a lost art and that those who like it have to be respected because they researched and found it.  it wasn't there for them with open arms...we are a "convenience" ran society now in all aspects and people now "expect" it...its kinda disguisting.....

Yes, you see my avatar and know from my name that I am a true Frederick Bastiat and Ayn Rand apprentice (so to speak)....but that's only because I researched, found them and compared them to others I have researched (plato, marx, the beatles for gods sakes) and decided that they made the most sense.  All I ask is not to succumb to the disease that is the pop culture.  My best friend and guitarist in my band is an extreme liberal/socialist...but he can backup his claims....all you have done is call me crazy...

 I didn't say or imply you insulted everyone that plays games.  I said you insulted everyone that doesn't like what you like, everyone disagrees with you. 

If someone likes WoW or swtor or any other modern game that you feel is a "pop culture game" this is what you said about them.

" bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people"

"They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level."

"even worse"

"easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included."

"gotten to this (low) level "

"such a plague ruin our exhistence"

 

How is this not an insult.  The only thing they did is like something you dont' like.  The only thing you know about them is they like a game you don't.

edit - face it, what we call the pop culture is not just a bunch of mindless sheep being told what to like that many people think.  Rather humans have many many many commonalities, we have 97% of the same DNA, we all live in the same world with very similar stressors.  It is likley that many mnay many people genuinely like similar things.  Is chocolate and vanilla the most common ice cream because of pop culture or people telling them to like it.  No, people just like it. 

I ddn't like Darkfall though....I only respected the idea presented....point denied

 So darkfall is the exception, point still stands for other games/beliefs/attitudes.

I think your attempts at reverse psychology are feeble at best.  I like what I like because I like them....I dont focus on outside opinion.   Whether you want to or not, the minute you turn your tv on or listen to your friend talk about the weather or what they are going to paint their wall the next day, you immediately accept that as the most important things in life....this is the pop culture...you can deny it all you want, but just look around you....credit is the new gold, fashion is the new frugal and "pragmatic" is the new realistic/rational.  It's the way masses mold the minions....

 There is no reverse psychology being used.  I didn't start that or imply you were being influenced by it.

Yo say you like what you like because you like them, and dont' focus on outside opinion.  Great good for you, why don't you extend others the same courtesy until you have evidence that the individual did not do that. 

Yes people are influened by what goes on around.  No Most do not immediately accept that as the most important things in life.  I think you find that most people are actually more discerning than that. 

The pop culture is nothing more than what the majority likes. 

Credit has always been important back to babylon days, fashion has always figured in sociey back to babylon days, and people have always had a pragmatic sense. This is nothing new, they are as hold as humanity itself.

actuallly, credit didnt become king in America until the early 1900's...even then it didnt have good footing until Nixon claimed "We're all Kaynsians Now".....fashion is something Robespierre raved about and I still despise it to this day....Im more worried about the detail of though than the detail of look (I know this is just opinion.)  Pragmatic is the most objectiveless way of thinking you could come across....Pragmatic  = "well it has four legs and a stable top that connects them all so it seems like a chair, but what we need now is a table, so, for pragmatic reasons only, we'll call it a table.

 England had debtors prison so credit had been around for hundreds of years.  Ancient Rome had distinct fashion of marking your outfit to show how important you were.

Pragmatism is not objectiveless.  Pragmatism is being objective, of dealing with facts.  It is the linking of theory with practice.  Pragmatism is trying to arrive at the truth of things in term is their successfull and practical applications. It is a practical approach to problem solving.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Not because you disagree but because your entire post was you stating how superior your likes are and eveyone else is as  commoner with no ability to think and just wants to be like you.

It's ok to not like something, what you did is to insult everyone who doesn't like what you like.

Recognize the difference between disagreeing with someone and insulting them.

Incorrect...did I insult players that play Darfall?  not really...I actuall respect them quite a bit, yet my sig will tell you that I just can't play that game (although i did try)...how about fans of Doom metal?  Not my favorite, but I realize that it's a lost art and that those who like it have to be respected because they researched and found it.  it wasn't there for them with open arms...we are a "convenience" ran society now in all aspects and people now "expect" it...its kinda disguisting.....

Yes, you see my avatar and know from my name that I am a true Frederick Bastiat and Ayn Rand apprentice (so to speak)....but that's only because I researched, found them and compared them to others I have researched (plato, marx, the beatles for gods sakes) and decided that they made the most sense.  All I ask is not to succumb to the disease that is the pop culture.  My best friend and guitarist in my band is an extreme liberal/socialist...but he can backup his claims....all you have done is call me crazy...

 I didn't say or imply you insulted everyone that plays games.  I said you insulted everyone that doesn't like what you like, everyone disagrees with you. 

If someone likes WoW or swtor or any other modern game that you feel is a "pop culture game" this is what you said about them.

" bunch of crowd pleasing, want it easy and soft, commoner mentality people"

"They love what "we" (the real MMORPG crowd do), but would also "love" to have it simplified for them since they cannot comprehend on the same level."

"even worse"

"easy to listen, with no reason to think as brain functionality was not included."

"gotten to this (low) level "

"such a plague ruin our exhistence"

 

How is this not an insult.  The only thing they did is like something you dont' like.  The only thing you know about them is they like a game you don't.

edit - face it, what we call the pop culture is not just a bunch of mindless sheep being told what to like that many people think.  Rather humans have many many many commonalities, we have 97% of the same DNA, we all live in the same world with very similar stressors.  It is likley that many mnay many people genuinely like similar things.  Is chocolate and vanilla the most common ice cream because of pop culture or people telling them to like it.  No, people just like it. 

I ddn't like Darkfall though....I only respected the idea presented....point denied

 So darkfall is the exception, point still stands for other games/beliefs/attitudes.

I think your attempts at reverse psychology are feeble at best.  I like what I like because I like them....I dont focus on outside opinion.   Whether you want to or not, the minute you turn your tv on or listen to your friend talk about the weather or what they are going to paint their wall the next day, you immediately accept that as the most important things in life....this is the pop culture...you can deny it all you want, but just look around you....credit is the new gold, fashion is the new frugal and "pragmatic" is the new realistic/rational.  It's the way masses mold the minions....

 There is no reverse psychology being used.  I didn't start that or imply you were being influenced by it.

Yo say you like what you like because you like them, and dont' focus on outside opinion.  Great good for you, why don't you extend others the same courtesy until you have evidence that the individual did not do that. 

Yes people are influened by what goes on around.  No Most do not immediately accept that as the most important things in life.  I think you find that most people are actually more discerning than that. 

The pop culture is nothing more than what the majority likes. 

Credit has always been important back to babylon days, fashion has always figured in sociey back to babylon days, and people have always had a pragmatic sense. This is nothing new, they are as hold as humanity itself.

actuallly, credit didnt become king in America until the early 1900's...even then it didnt have good footing until Nixon claimed "We're all Kaynsians Now".....fashion is something Robespierre raved about and I still despise it to this day....Im more worried about the detail of though than the detail of look (I know this is just opinion.)  Pragmatic is the most objectiveless way of thinking you could come across....Pragmatic  = "well it has four legs and a stable top that connects them all so it seems like a chair, but what we need now is a table, so, for pragmatic reasons only, we'll call it a table.

 England had debtors prison so credit had been around for hundreds of years.  Ancient Rome had distinct fashion of marking your outfit to show how important you were.

Pragmatism is not objectiveless.  Pragmatism is being objective, of dealing with facts.  It is the linking of theory with practice.  Pragmatism is trying to arrive at the truth of things in term is their successfull and practical applications. It is a practical approach to problem solving.

 

wife aggro, Ill answer tommorow...hold that thought...love the debate though :)

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

On one side you have pop culture, which can be pretty bad. While I like the Beatles, sort of the WoW of the Sixties. I don't like Justin Bieber, sort of the WoW clones of today.

The other side of the coin is Pretention. Movies and art that think they are above the norm. So you get Dogville and Melencholia or art that consist of blops of paint on the canvas that have no rhyme or reason. 

The fact of the matter is both sides can go too far. As for me, I like the Foo Fighters, a band that has pop hits but has a little art in them as well. I like the secret world, an MMO that doesn't completely re-invent the wheel but at the same time, tries to be it's own game, not completely copying what is currently out there.

You can go too far with either extreme.

In my humble opinion, you are confusing entertainment with art and using the "pretentious" card in a wrong way.

I disagree with the OP, but this is not the reason I am replying to you.

You see, pop rock bands (like Foo Fighters) and "hollywoodian" movies are pieces of entertainment and not pieces of Art. Too many people involved in the production, adequacy and the necessity of financial success are details that make produced bands like Foo Fighters, videogames and pop movies to be much more of a entertainment product than really Art and there is nothing wrong with that! Sometimes entertainment can be generated by art sensibility even when it is not a pure piece of Art.

We can call the music work of Khachaturian, Prokofiev and even Arrigo Barnabé "art", especially because their work is not related to entertainment market and industry. We can't say the same about Foo Fighters, but that doesn't been you are a lesser person if you enjoy this band. We are talking about different concepts.

Everyone in this boards play videogames, so without hypocrisy, everyone enjoy some kind of entertainment.

When someone uses videogames to show his level of intelligence and culture be sure this person don't know what he is saying.

Pretension is another thing, the OP is pretentious, but we can't call movies like Dogville a truly pretentious work, in the end it still is mainstream cinema, but with interesting ideas. Lars von Trier may be a pretentious director overall, but what is pretentious about Dogville? It is just a non usual concept for mainstream cinema, nothing more. It is not Art cinema like Holy Mountain or Vozvrashchenie (fantastic movies and far away from the mainstream support).

The Art you described it not pretentious too, it is a concept you just need to go after the ideas related to the painting before judge it, it is not ornamental painting. Remember, there is a difference between ornament and Art.

I am not saying there is no pretentious in art and entertainment but when something has its codes or different concepts than usual it doesn't mean it is pretentious.

In the past MMORPG games were less accessible most because of limited resources and technology, but MMORPGs (and most videogames) never were something from the "underground" or a piece of Art. Videogames are related to pop culture.

Another examples of pop culture, Star Wars, Star Trek and many "geek" things. 

This is why there is no MMORPG about Holy Mountain, but there are two about  Star Wars, because social videogame productions are something from pop culture to pop culture.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by troublmaker

I think you may have a confused view of what exactly pop culture entails.  I'm pretty sure you think that Pop Culture refers to only the Justin Biebers and the Rihannas of the world.  In reality Metallica and The Rolling Stones are also a part of pop culture.

The term "pop culture" refers to how people come to a concensus on what they like or enjoy.

I think he meant what he said. Seriously, I agree with him. What does this crap do for an MMO?

It makes it just a bit more entertaining for some. That's why this kind of stuff has been in MMOs since the turn of the century.

Things like Jenniy's Twotone Cuirass (love the attrib bonus), the Clean, Dry Towel (trade it in for a copy of 'The Portal Jumper's Guide to Dereth'), and the long standing tradition of holiday events make the game more entertaining for some. After all, most gamers are playing games to amuse themselves and to be entertained, something that I think many here have forgotten.

That's immaterial, of course, because that is NOT what the OP is referring to despite him jumping on the opportunity to say so after the fact. Read his post again. He took the pretentious 'real MMO gamer' stance and injected a bit of hipster flavor to it for added spice.

I can understand how those who live by the "pop" culture code could call me pretentious...you don't see what I see.

I would dare you to turn your t.v.'s, facebook pages, cellphones and other mass media tools off for 1 month and observe the world around you, but I understand that that would be like taking a dying man off life support.