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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » This is why TERA combat is better than GW2

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207 posts found
  Mouls

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/08
Posts: 84

10/13/12 5:18:26 PM#101

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODGE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6npO-NoOPOg

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

10/13/12 5:20:02 PM#102

TERAs combat still reigns supreme, it is the best combat i've ever had the pleasure of experiencing, too bad TERA falls short in so many other ways.

 

Also that BAM is a fairly easy one, there's much harder ones, but still, all soloable. I still remember solo'ing an endgame instance called Fane of Kaprima before the new gear and dungeons came out...last boss alone took me 40 minutes and a plethora of healing potions, but it was pretty awesome.

 

 

Originally posted by Lydon
I'm sorry but Tera's combat doesn't look like anything special at all. That mob is attacking so slowly you'd have to be a complete retard not to dodge the large majority of its attacks.

 Drake's are slow, even when enraged.

  User Deleted
10/13/12 5:22:40 PM#103
Originally posted by Yamota

Wow didn't expect this thread to become so big. Anyway, to address some of the posts here.

  1. Those of you who say it is "easy" to solo kill a BAM and you are expected to be able to do it. Have you even played TERA? BAM's, at high level, are no way easy to kill and the only reason the warrior can do it is because it is a master in evading, IF you got the skills for it. Something which is not possible in GW 2 because you got two evades and then you are out of endurance so you can't do it consistently.
  2. Those of you who say it is "slow", well those BAM's hit for alot so 2-3 hits and you are dead so it has to be slow, otherwise the only way to kill one is by Zerging which btw is the only way to kill Champion mobs in GW 2.
  3. TERA's combat is pure aim based, meaning you can't target mobs as you can in GW 2 so it takes more skill to do it well in TERA. GW 2 combat is mostly about your gear and handling cooldowns, there is no aiming here, just getting in range.
  4. In TERA you can tank, if you are good, in GW 2 you can't tank, regardless of how good you are.
TERA's combat IS superior to GW 2's. Keep in mind that I said in my original post that GW 2 is the superior game of the two and that is because MMO's is not all about combat.

Yup, never made it past level 7 in the betas but my buddy let me playtest his level 40ish Slayer and I easily defeated every BAM I came across.  It painfully easy to do and even worse knwoing someone who has less then 3 hours total gametime is able to do it.  The funny thing is I just mashed buttons and dodged easily avoidable telegraphed moves.

 

For the same reason that Tera is bad is the same reason why I hate on WoW now, being able to kill deathwing within 2 days after being gone for 2 years is the epitome of bad gameplay.  WoW and Tera have alot in common, both super easy boring questing system and painfully easy combat.

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

10/13/12 5:25:48 PM#104
Originally posted by Zylaxx

Yup, never made it past level 7 in the betas but my buddy let me playtest his level 40ish Slayer and I easily defeated every BAM I came across.  It painfully easy to do and even worse knwoing someone who has less then 3 hours total gametime is able to do it.  The funny thing is I just mashed buttons and dodged easily avoidable telegraphed moves.

 

For the same reason that Tera is bad is the same reason why I hate on WoW now, being able to kill deathwing within 2 days after being gone for 2 years is the epitome of bad gameplay.  WoW and Tera have alot in common, both super easy boring questing system and painfully easy combat.

 This is an utter lie, unless you weren't facing equal level BAMs, I played the game for 5 months, beat the hardmodes and ranked in the top 30 of all players in PvP for a while and I could still mess up and die to equal level BAMs.

 

For the average players in guild it took them 2 months of being 60 to beat the hardmodes, it's not painfully easy by any means.

 

Either you were overleveled, fighting the easiest BAM in the game or overgeared.

  Lydon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/20/06
Posts: 2920

10/13/12 5:29:38 PM#105
Originally posted by Yamota

Wow didn't expect this thread to become so big. Anyway, to address some of the posts here.

  1. Those of you who say it is "easy" to solo kill a BAM and you are expected to be able to do it. Have you even played TERA? BAM's, at high level, are no way easy to kill and the only reason the warrior can do it is because it is a master in evading, IF you got the skills for it. Something which is not possible in GW 2 because you got two evades and then you are out of endurance so you can't do it consistently.
  2. Those of you who say it is "slow", well those BAM's hit for alot so 2-3 hits and you are dead so it has to be slow, otherwise the only way to kill one is by Zerging which btw is the only way to kill Champion mobs in GW 2.
  3. TERA's combat is pure aim based, meaning you can't target mobs as you can in GW 2 so it takes more skill to do it well in TERA. GW 2 combat is mostly about your gear and handling cooldowns, there is no aiming here, just getting in range.
  4. In TERA you can tank, if you are good, in GW 2 you can't tank, regardless of how good you are.
TERA's combat IS superior to GW 2's. Keep in mind that I said in my original post that GW 2 is the superior game of the two and that is because MMO's is not all about combat.

I'm sorry but I find this so funny.

1) So having a limit to the number of times you can evade and thus having to choose when it is best to do so makes GW2's combat less skill-based? Like I said...I find that pretty funny.

2) So you're admitting that combat is slowed-down in order to give people a fighting chance of solo-ing, whereas in GW2 there's practically no way of handling elite group content alone unless you're in a group. And that makes Tera's combat more skill based? Lol

3) The fact that Tera's combat is twitch-based is about the only thing that looks remotely interesting about it. But even then I don't see what's so ground-breaking about it or why it requires so much skill? The Chronicles of Spellborn was twitch-based, along with a rotating skill bar that added a completely different element to the mix. Plus it seemed far more fast-paced than Tera does from the video you posted. What you're trying to argue is that aiming your mouse and being able to dodge to your heart's content somehow requires more skill than choosing when to use your abilities and when to use your limited evades.

4) The whole point of GW2's combat system has been the removal of the trinity. There aren't supposed to be any tanks. Which makes your post seem even more strange, because you're suggesting that focusing on one thing - tanking - somehow requires more skill than tanking, DPS, healing oneself and party support all at the same time.

Though I'm not even sure why I'm taking you seriously considering the first sentence of your last paragraph. Who are you to say that, exactly?

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

10/13/12 5:33:51 PM#106

I have an 80 in GW2 and a 60 in TERA, I beat all the dungeons in both games(except shandra manaya in TERA because I quit before anyone managed to beat it).

 

Both games have their good points in terms of combat(GW2 adding a dodge to a tab target game was a nice addition), undoubtedly GW2s solo play is harder and TERAs dungeons are a lot harder. For example I beat Arah Explorable path 2 and 3 on my first attempts, took me...5-20 attempts to beat each of the hardmode dungeons in TERA. I never even beat Kelsaik hardmode until the update with new tiers of gear, it took 3 months for the first people to beat Kelsaik Hardmode, people beat Arah in GW2 right when they hit 80.

 

In my opinion TERAs combat is better and the PvP requires more skill but GW2 overall is a better game.

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

10/13/12 5:39:46 PM#107
Originally posted by Pivotelite

I have an 80 in GW2 and a 60 in TERA, I beat all the dungeons in both games(except shandra manaya in TERA because I quit before anyone managed to beat it).

 

Both games have their good points in terms of combat, GW2s solo play is harder, TERAs dungeons are a lot harder. For example I beat Arah Explorable path 2 and 3 on my first attempts, took me...5-20 attempts to beat each of the hardmode dungeons in TERA. I never even beat Kelsaik hardmode until the update with new tiers of gear, it took 3 months for the first people to beat Kelsaik Harmode, people beat Arah in GW2 right when they hit 80.

 

In my opinion TERAs combat is better and the PvP requires more skills but GW2 overall is a better game.

Agree 100%, i also have maxed characters in both games. now if developers would just let us combine the 2, sprinkle in some FFXI classic skill chains, meaningful crafting, houses and guild halls/castles.

 

Ahh, one can dream...

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

10/13/12 5:43:43 PM#108
Originally posted by taus01

Agree 100%, i also have maxed characters in both games. now if developers would just let us combine the 2, sprinkle in some FFXI classic skill chains, meaningful crafting, houses and guild halls/castles.

 

Ahh, one can dream...

 Dreaming is all we can do, an MMO will always impress in one regard and fall flat on it's face in another.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

10/13/12 5:44:52 PM#109
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Zylaxx
The only, and let me repeat the ONLY reason why you can kill stuuff like that in melee in Tera is because the mobs telegraph for seconds, and move immensely slower then GW2.  Just look at the GW2CM (GW2 Combat Mode Mod) which basically turns the game into Tera combat and you still cant kill champions like that as a melee because GW2 has an infinetly more complex and robust Monster AI.  SO again GW2 shoots Tera down.

 

A major reason why dodge/circle-strafing doesn't work nearly as well in GW2 is because flaws in the mob physics for a large amount of mobs.

 

To quote from http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024995#5024995:

 

 

From this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR0-S9SQCW4

Look at 0:56-0:58 (yes, it's that short. You will probably have trouble catching it). Holy mother auto-facing Batman! That's like, what, 100+ degrees in a split second? And he attacks right after!? What kind of dodging can you possibly have in a game where a mob auto-faces 100 degrees with an attack??? (instant, no less) When switching targets, to boot? So much for team play or w/e.

(The video has become private since that post, but the point is the ridiculously bad physics that make the monster able to turn to character at a ridiculous speed; not all monsters are affected by this problem though)

 

Problem 5: damage by proximity.

Again, this doesn't seem to be the case for all mobs (not the big ass dude up there), but it did seem to be the case for worms and most other mobs. This is true for most MMORPGs out there but is a bit strange for a twitch MMO. If a mob begins an attack animation, you may get hit on it even if you are, say, to the left of the front of the mob, if you're too close to the mob. Particularly, the worm get-out-of-ground attack seemed to work like this. No matter what I do it hits me. Of course, the worm's reaction to you rolling away is to go underground again. This is honestly one of the more annoying mobs in the game and why would you put that in someone's starting area is beyond me.

What I am trying to say is, it seems most mobs have essentially an AoE (or, at least, cone) melee attack that you can't dodge unless you disengage (leave melee range). The reason this is terrible is because it means a close-range side roll is useless since you remain in melee range and get hit anyway. And if you roll any other way you're too far and by the time you come back they restart the attack animation. Catch-22.

(Which is another example of bad mob physics)

This! It is one of the main reasons why I mainly use Rifle on my warrior in PVE. I only switch back to Axe+Warhorn to buff, debuff or just stand in between a mob and a player who is in trouble. The downside of fighting ranged most of the time is that a fight with the wurm like in your example just takes ages because it is half the time digging its way to me.

I also think that the twitchbased part of GW2 combat is still lacking and you are the first I see to describe it in a clear way.

Another reason I mainly go ranged is not so much mob physics, but the particle spam that prevents you from seeing the big attacks coming if you are in melee range.

I want to be able to control a fight in action based combat and not just dodge on guess. To me ranged seems always viable and melee only sometimes. I don't say its not doable, it is just that I have no reason to switch to melee.

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 434

10/13/12 5:45:29 PM#110
Originally posted by Pivotelite

I have an 80 in GW2 and a 60 in TERA, I beat all the dungeons in both games(except shandra manaya in TERA because I quit before anyone managed to beat it).

 

Both games have their good points in terms of combat(GW2 adding a dodge to a tab target game was a nice addition), undoubtedly GW2s solo play is harder and TERAs dungeons are a lot harder. For example I beat Arah Explorable path 2 and 3 on my first attempts, took me...5-20 attempts to beat each of the hardmode dungeons in TERA. I never even beat Kelsaik hardmode until the update with new tiers of gear, it took 3 months for the first people to beat Kelsaik Hardmode, people beat Arah in GW2 right when they hit 80.

 

In my opinion TERAs combat is better and the PvP requires more skill but GW2 overall is a better game.

No one will take this seriously... you have placed no evidence or reasoning in this whatsoever... describing how many times it takes to complete something doesn't describe the combat whatso ever... you have made no real comparison. if anything you have proven the opposite point.. gw2 is not meant to have a gear grind in order to be competitive.. therefore its no surprise that you had to grind the gear in order to complete a dungeon.. that makes combat pointless.. if it was skill based you should have been able to beat the dungeon without the gear...

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

10/13/12 6:03:29 PM#111
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by Pivotelite

I have an 80 in GW2 and a 60 in TERA, I beat all the dungeons in both games(except shandra manaya in TERA because I quit before anyone managed to beat it).

 

Both games have their good points in terms of combat(GW2 adding a dodge to a tab target game was a nice addition), undoubtedly GW2s solo play is harder and TERAs dungeons are a lot harder. For example I beat Arah Explorable path 2 and 3 on my first attempts, took me...5-20 attempts to beat each of the hardmode dungeons in TERA. I never even beat Kelsaik hardmode until the update with new tiers of gear, it took 3 months for the first people to beat Kelsaik Hardmode, people beat Arah in GW2 right when they hit 80.

 

In my opinion TERAs combat is better and the PvP requires more skill but GW2 overall is a better game.

No one will take this seriously... you have placed no evidence or reasoning in this whatsoever... describing how many times it takes to complete something doesn't describe the combat whatso ever... you have made no real comparison. if anything you have proven the opposite point.. gw2 is not meant to have a gear grind in order to be competitive.. therefore its no surprise that you had to grind the gear in order to complete a dungeon.. that makes combat pointless.. if it was skill based you should have been able to beat the dungeon without the gear...

  Well then don't take me seriously and besides my multiple attempts in most of the hardmodes until I got them right we're with the same gear, sure once you get overgeared almost anything can become easy, with a party of people in full exotics in GW2 running everything is easy except maybe Arah, even then it's not that hard.

 

Only difference is getting the best gear in GW2 is a lot easier than TERA, hence 2 days at 80 and I beat path 2 and 3 in Arah, 2 months at 60 and I beat Balders Temple hardmode in TERA(which wasn't even the hardest dungeon at the time).

 

And in TERA you could beat the hardest dungeons without the best gear, using...skill?

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 434

10/13/12 6:08:57 PM#112
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by Pivotelite

I have an 80 in GW2 and a 60 in TERA, I beat all the dungeons in both games(except shandra manaya in TERA because I quit before anyone managed to beat it).

 

Both games have their good points in terms of combat(GW2 adding a dodge to a tab target game was a nice addition), undoubtedly GW2s solo play is harder and TERAs dungeons are a lot harder. For example I beat Arah Explorable path 2 and 3 on my first attempts, took me...5-20 attempts to beat each of the hardmode dungeons in TERA. I never even beat Kelsaik hardmode until the update with new tiers of gear, it took 3 months for the first people to beat Kelsaik Hardmode, people beat Arah in GW2 right when they hit 80.

 

In my opinion TERAs combat is better and the PvP requires more skill but GW2 overall is a better game.

No one will take this seriously... you have placed no evidence or reasoning in this whatsoever... describing how many times it takes to complete something doesn't describe the combat whatso ever... you have made no real comparison. if anything you have proven the opposite point.. gw2 is not meant to have a gear grind in order to be competitive.. therefore its no surprise that you had to grind the gear in order to complete a dungeon.. that makes combat pointless.. if it was skill based you should have been able to beat the dungeon without the gear...

  Well then don't and my multiple attempts in most of the hardmodes, we're with the same gear, sure once you get overgeared almost anything can become easy, with a party of people in full exotics in GW2 running everything is easy except maybe Arah, even then it's not that hard.

 

Only difference is getting the best gear in GW2 is a lot easier than TERA, hence 2 days at 80 and I beat path 2 and 3 in Arah, 2 months at 60 and I beat Balders Temple hardmode in TERA(which wasn't even the hardest dungeon at the time).

 

And in TERA you could beat the hardest dungeons without the best gear, using...skill?

Idk.. gear does make a great difference... but i thought the consensus was...(at least on this site) that gw2 gear is almost pointless cause it doesn't give you an amazing boost in stats... so i would imagine it doesn't make that big a difference.. but you are saying otherwise.. other than that.. my real point was that you don't describe the combat mechanics at all.... you may just be an amazing player and gw2 is no biggie for you.. but i remember reading a lot of posts with ppl complaining about how amazingly difficult it is.... I honestly feel that gw2 is made to be more realistic and other mmo's feed ppls desire to feel so called "epic"

 

edit: for the record.. I don't find any mmo difficult to play other than FPS... those things have an amazing learning curve.

  User Deleted
10/13/12 6:13:14 PM#113

Anyone who played Tera knows what it's really about.

The nonsense about GW2 being more about dice rolls than player skill just shows the obvious: the OP was/is bad at playing GW2, and puts the blame on the game instead of trying to improve.
  Zierrity

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 232

none

10/13/12 6:14:52 PM#114
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Crunchy222
Originally posted by Yamota

Wow didn't expect this thread to become so big. Anyway, to address some of the posts here.

  1. Those of you who say it is "easy" to solo kill a BAM and you are expected to be able to do it. Have you even played TERA? BAM's, at high level, are no way easy to kill and the only reason the warrior can do it is because it is a master in evading, IF you got the skills for it. Something which is not possible in GW 2 because you got two evades and then you are out of endurance so you can't do it consistently.
  2. Those of you who say it is "slow", well those BAM's hit for alot so 2-3 hits and you are dead so it has to be slow, otherwise the only way to kill one is by Zerging which btw is the only way to kill Champion mobs in GW 2.
  3. TERA's combat is pure aim based, meaning you can't target mobs as you can in GW 2 so it takes more skill to do it well in TERA. GW 2 combat is mostly about your gear and handling cooldowns, there is no aiming here, just getting in range.
  4. In TERA you can tank, if you are good, in GW 2 you can't tank, regardless of how good you are.
TERA's combat IS superior to GW 2's. Keep in mind that I said in my original post that GW 2 is the superior game of the two and that is because MMO's is not all about combat.

Tera's combat is superior to just about every mmorpg out there. its fantastic.  However (other than the games looks) Tera has nothing to stand on other than the combat.  Ironically i felt that Tera had more and better content than GW2, other than Tera's lack of pvp at the time

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

Darkfalls combat is better than Tera's and gw2s combat is more fun than both of them. 

I for one find Blade & Souls combat system to be the most interesting I've tried so far:3

but seriously, I dont get why people keep saying that their personal choice is superior to others :P as many have said before me, it all comes down to personal opinions, just because you think A is better than B, doesnt make it so.

@OP: I think people would have taken you more serious if you would have said "This is why I think TERA combat is better than GW2", but than again, I probably shouldn't speak for others... let me try again, I would have taken you more seriously if that would have been the name of the thread. Now, I for one, did pick up on that you said you found Guild Wars 2 to be the more superior game, so I get that you're not just another delusional fanboy and that your bottom line is that you miss the TERA combat system,  but in the future, please try to emphasize that this is your opinion and not a fact. 

This is ment as constructive criticism btw, if failed to show that, then my bad.

I usually try to stay away from these A vs B threads but I'm getting tired of the "My Dad can beat up your Dad complex " so I just had to stop by and say something :P

carry on.

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

10/13/12 6:32:23 PM#115
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by Pivotelite
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Originally posted by Pivotelite

I have an 80 in GW2 and a 60 in TERA, I beat all the dungeons in both games(except shandra manaya in TERA because I quit before anyone managed to beat it).

 

Both games have their good points in terms of combat(GW2 adding a dodge to a tab target game was a nice addition), undoubtedly GW2s solo play is harder and TERAs dungeons are a lot harder. For example I beat Arah Explorable path 2 and 3 on my first attempts, took me...5-20 attempts to beat each of the hardmode dungeons in TERA. I never even beat Kelsaik hardmode until the update with new tiers of gear, it took 3 months for the first people to beat Kelsaik Hardmode, people beat Arah in GW2 right when they hit 80.

 

In my opinion TERAs combat is better and the PvP requires more skill but GW2 overall is a better game.

No one will take this seriously... you have placed no evidence or reasoning in this whatsoever... describing how many times it takes to complete something doesn't describe the combat whatso ever... you have made no real comparison. if anything you have proven the opposite point.. gw2 is not meant to have a gear grind in order to be competitive.. therefore its no surprise that you had to grind the gear in order to complete a dungeon.. that makes combat pointless.. if it was skill based you should have been able to beat the dungeon without the gear...

  Well then don't and my multiple attempts in most of the hardmodes, we're with the same gear, sure once you get overgeared almost anything can become easy, with a party of people in full exotics in GW2 running everything is easy except maybe Arah, even then it's not that hard.

 

Only difference is getting the best gear in GW2 is a lot easier than TERA, hence 2 days at 80 and I beat path 2 and 3 in Arah, 2 months at 60 and I beat Balders Temple hardmode in TERA(which wasn't even the hardest dungeon at the time).

 

And in TERA you could beat the hardest dungeons without the best gear, using...skill?

Idk.. gear does make a great difference... but i thought the consensus was...(at least on this site) that gw2 gear is almost pointless cause it doesn't give you an amazing boost in stats... so i would imagine it doesn't make that big a difference.. but you are saying otherwise.. other than that.. my real point was that you don't describe the combat mechanics at all.... you may just be an amazing player and gw2 is no biggie for you.. but i remember reading a lot of posts with ppl complaining about how amazingly difficult it is.... I honestly feel that gw2 is made to be more realistic and other mmo's feed ppls desire to feel so called "epic"

 

edit: for the record.. I don't find any mmo difficult to play other than FPS... those things have an amazing learning curve.

 GW2 dungeons are pretty difficult, but they aren't "hat" hard, I don't see why people are complaining about difficulty and asking for nerfs at all and gear does actually make a moderate difference, if you go in with just blues and whites, you'll do far worse than going in with full exotics, but it doesn't make as big of a difference as gear does in TERA and it's a lot easier to get the best gear in GW2.

 

If I wanted to sum up why GW2 is easier than TERA in dungeons I can do it in two words, "downed state".

 

Sorry for late response, was running CoF in GW2 lol.

 

 

  KingJiggly

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/11
Posts: 807

Definition for innovation is below. Your welcome.

10/13/12 6:43:08 PM#116
A $&@$ing snail could dodge that. 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 434

10/13/12 6:45:20 PM#117
Originally posted by KingJiggly
A $&@$ing snail could dodge that. 

+1000

 

 

LMFAO

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

10/13/12 6:49:06 PM#118
.... but you can solo champions at least as high as level 70 in GW2.  I haven't tested anything past that. :I
  Neo_Liberty

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 434

10/13/12 6:51:11 PM#119
Can you solo a boss monster in TERA? now that would be EPIC!!!!

  Pivotelite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2191

10/13/12 6:53:28 PM#120
Originally posted by Neo_Liberty
Can you solo a boss monster in TERA? now that would be EPIC!!!!

 I solo'd normal mode Kaprima, took me 40 minutes and a bank breaking amount of potions to accomplish. x.x

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