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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » This game sounds like the possible savior to MMOs!

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225 posts found
  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 650

10/13/12 1:45:19 PM#101
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Fagmod
Originally posted by MercArcher

RvRvR was the epitome of PvP in MMOs

LoL! Good one mate! Pull another one!

This RvRvR in TESO is a double-edged sword, it does deliver average form of PvP for endgame purposes, on the other hand it makes 2/3 of the PvE-area of the gameworld unreachable to any character. In a way, you are almost forced to make alts. That is not a good thing.

Actually it is one of the worst ideas I've ever ran into in any MMO.

Seriously, instead of this stupid faction thing, why not just allow guilds to handle the whole thing. Let Cyrodiil be the PvP area, but let people choose the side (guild) they belong to. This way whole Tamriel would stay open to everyone. I would buy this game.

I wont be buying TESO.

So your an expert on how big the 3 different factions zones are?  Or what is the best PvP system?

 

Fact of the matter is DAoC had 3 factions and 2 of the factions zones were locked out for you and there was ZERO open world PvP.  DAoC was one of the higest critically acclaimed MMO's so now it is not one of the worst ideas ever to copy alot of its prevelant elements.

 

There are plenty of Open World PvP games for you to play, there has only been 2, COUNT IT: 2, multi faction specific RvR games, TESO is not a PvP game, it is an RvR so get it throguh your head please.

There have also only been 2 (count them 2: Darkfall and Mortal) FPS fantasy MMORPGs with TES gameplay.

So what's your point?

Should I trot out the argument that "because it hasn't been done very much by big companies it is unpopular" which is frequently used to denegrate FFA PVP systems?  Or should I say that after playing DAOC for 2 years since its launch I found RvR getting stale and repetitive after a month, whereas Darkfall's open PvP and siege mechanics never got stale for a second?

Hate to break it to you but DAOC was mediocre at best, RvR being its only saving grace.  SWG was, shockingly, a much better game in all respects, and still had amazingly fun world PvP without resorting to such a boring, repetitive, closed-off system like RvR, which is why I switched over.  There was more freedom, you could go anywhere, you could be neutral, hell you could just be a merchant if you wanted, there was no "forced war" which, unless the factions in ESO are drafting, my character would have no part of.  But no, even if I am personally neutral, I'm still aligned with that faction as far as the game is concerned.  That's annoying, frankly, and does not really capture the go-anywhere do-anything essence of The Elder Scrolls.

If you want to play DAOC, go and play it, it still exists.

But for Elder Scrolls fans, those other open world games, aren't in the world of TES, so we don't care about them.

Why would you want to take a mediocre 10-year-old design paradigm and use it to shit all over what could have been one of the most engaging and innovative MMORPGs ever released, had it stuck closely to what makes TES special in the first place (not just the lore)?

Really, that's more of a question for the developers.  I'd love to hear a real answer.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/13/12 1:48:28 PM#102
Tes is a single player game.

IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PVP

So whatever pvp model they pick is different to skyrim.

Using a rvr system is just as valid as using a ffa system.

At least they didn't go with a tupperware pvp model.
  kartool

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 431

10/13/12 1:49:43 PM#103
Ahahahaha, the guy making the game insisted that nothing new can be done with MMO's and this is the saviour? Hahahahaha.
  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 650

10/13/12 1:51:30 PM#104
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Tes is a single player game.

IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PVP

So whatever pvp model they pick is different to skyrim.

Using a rvr system is just as valid as using a ffa system.

At least they didn't go with a tupperware pvp model.

It's an SP game, where you can punch, kick, stab, shoot and fireball anyone or anything at any time for any reason (with just consequences).

If you were to translate that to an MMO setting, all you'd have to do is replace the "SP" in that sentence with "MMO" and you'd have your PvP setup.

Since TES is an SP game, the distinction between NPC and PC is irrelevant.  Everything you fight could be player-controlled, it doesn't matter.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/13/12 1:51:55 PM#105
Also if they do TESO like daoc, they might go the core / ffa / coop approach with the servers.

In which case your ffa server will play a little like df.
And the coop server will let pve types play all 3 pve "continents"
  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 650

10/13/12 1:53:06 PM#106
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also if they do TESO like daoc, they might go the core / ffa / coop approach with the servers.

In which case your ffa server will play a little like df.
And the coop server will let pve types play all 3 pve "continents"

That is a BIG if.

  Deathstrike2

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/06
Posts: 1824

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

10/13/12 1:54:45 PM#107
Originally posted by kartool
Ahahahaha, the guy making the game insisted that nothing new can be done with MMO's and this is the saviour? Hahahahaha.

Why try anything new?  Most players just bitch about it and then go back to WoW in the end anyway. 

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 650

10/13/12 1:56:57 PM#108
Originally posted by Deathstrike2
Originally posted by kartool
Ahahahaha, the guy making the game insisted that nothing new can be done with MMO's and this is the saviour? Hahahahaha.

Why try anything new?  Most players just bitch about it and then go back to WoW in the end anyway. 

Don't worry, with this guy in charge, they won't be trying anything new:

  znaiika

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 202

10/13/12 2:28:33 PM#109

PvPers should consider TESO as training ground for new pvpers " pvp light virsion ".

As for hardcore pvpers, you have DF:UW coming, you have nothing to worry about, play your hardcore pvp game and support it.

Good job TESO, I love the feature you have.

  MercArcher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 59

 
OP  10/13/12 2:28:53 PM#110

So basically what I'm getting out of all the nay-sayers is they are sad that they can't just sit around greifing people all day by killing all the NPCs and players in sight for no reason other than "because I can".

 

They are opposed to hotbars because more than 2 spells confuses them

 

And want first person aiming in MMOs that traditionally have pings around 100ish that can sky rocket in large populated areas for which they said they are trying to support 200 people on screen which would make First Person targetig a cluster fuck of nothing ever happening because it would be impossible to focus fire leading to extremely boring gameplay.

 

To me that sounds like a terrible game and I along with the majority of gamers are glad they didn't take that approach.

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 650

10/13/12 2:31:41 PM#111
Originally posted by znaiika

PvPers should consider TESO as training ground for new pvpers " pvp light virsion ".

As for hardcore pvpers, you have DF:UW coming, you have nothing to worry about, play your hardcore pvp game and support it.

Good job TESO, I love the feature you have.

What about hardcore PvPers who want to play in the world of TES?

Where's our game?

Oh is DF:UW using the TES IP now?  If so yay!  But they aren't, they're on Agon, which I could care less about.

Originally posted by MercArcher

So basically what I'm getting out of all the nay-sayers is they are sad that they can't just sit around greifing people all day by killing all the NPCs and players in sight for no reason other than "because I can".

 

They are opposed to hotbars because more than 2 spells confuses them

 

And want first person aiming in MMOs that traditionally have pings around 100ish that can sky rocket in large populated areas for which they said they are trying to support 200 people on screen which would make First Person targetig a cluster fuck of nothing ever happening because it would be impossible to focus fire leading to extremely boring gameplay.

 

To me that sounds like a terrible game and I along with the majority of gamers are glad they didn't take that approach.

EL OH EL

Merc you crack me up.  How much are ZOS paying you, seriously?  I could totally get in on this racket, where do I sign up?  I'd also be a LOT better at it than you because you have some glaring logic issues in your arguments.

1) FFA PVP with just consequences, guards arresting you and kicking your ass, serious punishments for criminals, bounty systems, make it difficult for criminals and murderers to survive, yes.  No other MMORPG has done this successfully.

2) Hotbars are fine.  Both Darkfall and Mortal have hotbars.  What we want to avoid is cool-downs and tab targetting.

3) Pings around 100?  Are you still on a 56k moden there buddy?  My ping to my GW2 server is 12, my ping to Darkfall US server is 31, my ping to the only Mortal Online server which is in Europe is 86, my ping to my PS2 server is 44.  Who the hell has 100 ping in an MMO these days?  Get with the times, man.  Also, having actually played FPS MMORPGs with melee, which you clearly haven't, I can objectively tell you that it is far more exciting and engaging than the number-explosions of WoW or GW2 combat.  Talk about a clusterfuck.

4) So if this has been the concensus you've gotten from your ill-conceived promotional thread paid for by our pals at Zenimax Online Studios, where exactly is this majority?  Why is TESO the lowest on the hype-meter and DF:UW the highest?  How weird that your "majority" is nowhere to be found.

Pro-tip for any kind of debate, never assume to talk for a majority unless you have evidence to back it up: you'll end up looking like Paul Ryan (ps: that means "liar").

  MercArcher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 59

 
OP  10/13/12 2:54:59 PM#112
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by znaiika

PvPers should consider TESO as training ground for new pvpers " pvp light virsion ".

As for hardcore pvpers, you have DF:UW coming, you have nothing to worry about, play your hardcore pvp game and support it.

Good job TESO, I love the feature you have.

What about hardcore PvPers who want to play in the world of TES?

Where's our game?

Oh is DF:UW using the TES IP now?  If so yay!  But they aren't, they're on Agon, which I could care less about.

Originally posted by MercArcher

So basically what I'm getting out of all the nay-sayers is they are sad that they can't just sit around greifing people all day by killing all the NPCs and players in sight for no reason other than "because I can".

 

They are opposed to hotbars because more than 2 spells confuses them

 

And want first person aiming in MMOs that traditionally have pings around 100ish that can sky rocket in large populated areas for which they said they are trying to support 200 people on screen which would make First Person targetig a cluster fuck of nothing ever happening because it would be impossible to focus fire leading to extremely boring gameplay.

 

To me that sounds like a terrible game and I along with the majority of gamers are glad they didn't take that approach.

EL OH EL

Merc you crack me up.  How much are ZOS paying you, seriously?  I could totally get in on this racket, where do I sign up?  I'd also be a LOT better at it than you because you have some glaring logic issues in your arguments.

1) FFA PVP with just consequences, guards arresting you and kicking your ass, serious punishments for criminals, bounty systems, make it difficult for criminals and murderers to survive, yes.  No other MMORPG has done this successfully.

2) Hotbars are fine.  Both Darkfall and Mortal have hotbars.  What we want to avoid is cool-downs and tab targetting.

3) Pings around 100?  Are you still on a 56k moden there buddy?  My ping to my GW2 server is 12, my ping to Darkfall US server is 31, my ping to the only Mortal Online server which is in Europe is 86, my ping to my PS2 server is 44.  Who the hell has 100 ping in an MMO these days?  Get with the times, man.  Also, having actually played FPS MMORPGs with melee, which you clearly haven't, I can objectively tell you that it is far more exciting and engaging than the number-explosions of WoW or GW2 combat.  Talk about a clusterfuck.

4) So if this has been the concensus you've gotten from your ill-conceived promotional thread paid for by our pals at Zenimax Online Studios, where exactly is this majority?  Why is TESO the lowest on the hype-meter and DF:UW the highest?  How weird that your "majority" is nowhere to be found.

Pro-tip for any kind of debate, never assume to talk for a majority unless you have evidence to back it up: you'll end up looking like Paul Ryan (ps: that means "liar").

TSW has #4 hype and is widly concidered a flop.

WoW is by far the most sucessful MMO ever and is somewhere around #50.

SWTOR, Rift, Aion, AoC, WAR, Ect. all had extremely high hypes before they launched and they all floped.

 

Hype on this site doesn't mean shit.

  gogysb

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/09
Posts: 6

10/13/12 2:59:08 PM#113
not this hype shit again -.-*
  MercArcher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 59

 
OP  10/13/12 2:59:36 PM#114
Also if your so worried about it not being a sandbox you have Archeage coming out around the same time, while TESO is going after a market that hasn't had a new game since 2002. That combined with the fact that its an elder scrolls game will make it HUGELY sucessful.
  Thane

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1667

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

10/13/12 3:02:06 PM#115
Originally posted by MercArcher

Finally someone is starting from scratch, making their own MMO game engine. Being able to fully controll everything about their own engine will be refreshing over the limitations of recent MMOs.

Three faction PvP is back! DAoC is the undesputed open world PvP game and it hasn't been sucessfully copied yet. With the lead developer of DAoC being the lead developer here I think we have a chance!

The stamina system is quite possibly the most interesting PvP mechanic i've seen in a LONG time. I'm really looking forward to it it adds a large amount of depth.

Fully voiced, dynamic content. SWTOR started the fully voiced, and add in GW2 dynamic system and you have a great questing system.

Ultimate Skills are another wonderful ideas. 0 mana, 0 CD skills that become castable from how you do in combat? I love it!

Back to the trinity. After GW2 we learned that the trinity exsists for a reason. They are trying to keep a similar action feel while going back to the method that works.

"BRD style Instances" Gone are the days of linear instances. Go where you want mazes with multiple paths!

Not a wow-clone. They aren't doing the mistake of so many MMOs recently of copying WoW. Granted WoW was a great game, but if people wanted to play wow they would play wow.

 

From the information released so far this sounds like it has the possibility to be one amazing game. I'm really looking forward to following the development and trying the betas.

hm... just for your info...

 

daoc had no open world pvp ^^ it was instanced. and no, i doubt ESO will save anything. if there is a saviour, it's WoW, you just dont like it :>   

 

doesn't count tho.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  1vald2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/12
Posts: 75

10/13/12 3:03:08 PM#116
I am very curious on how this game will turn out but one thing that turns me off completely already.. WHY THE FLIPPIN **** DO THE ELVES LOOK LIKE HUMANS!? 

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 650

10/13/12 3:03:14 PM#117
Originally posted by MercArcher
Also if your so worried about it not being a sandbox you have Archeage coming out around the same time, while TESO is going after a market that hasn't had a new game since 2002. That combined with the fact that its an elder scrolls game will make it HUGELY sucessful.

Oh, I wasn't aware that Archage took place in Tamriel!  /sarcasm 

I could care less about Archeage, especially with its horrendous UI and typical Korean art-style (blech) and isn't a TES game.

Originally posted by MercArcher
Originally posted by Entinerint
 

TSW has #4 hype and is widly concidered a flop.

WoW is by far the most sucessful MMO ever and is somewhere around #50.

SWTOR, Rift, Aion, AoC, WAR, Ect. all had extremely high hypes before they launched and they all floped.

 

Hype on this site doesn't mean shit.

Um Neverwinter has #4 on the hype-meter.  You are talking about reviews/rating.  That's very different.  If you can show me evidence that TSW had #4 before it was released, then by all mean show me.

We are talking about what people want, not the execution of an individual product.  People on this site clearly WANT DF:UW and don't WANT ESO.  ESO might be the best-made MMO of all tikme and DF:UW might be the buggiest, most broken piece of garbage ever relased, or vice versa.  Point is, we don't know, but what we do know is how people are voting.

Also, recently, ESO's hype-meter recently shot up to about 7.5 and then went back down again to the mid-6es almost a few days later, without a major change to the number of votes.  Was that part of your job description with ZOS too?  Trying to inflate the hype-meter, or was that a different department?  Too bad you got caught.

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2482

10/13/12 3:09:58 PM#118
Originally posted by MercArcher
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by znaiika

PvPers should consider TESO as training ground for new pvpers " pvp light virsion ".

As for hardcore pvpers, you have DF:UW coming, you have nothing to worry about, play your hardcore pvp game and support it.

Good job TESO, I love the feature you have.

What about hardcore PvPers who want to play in the world of TES?

Where's our game?

Oh is DF:UW using the TES IP now?  If so yay!  But they aren't, they're on Agon, which I could care less about.

Originally posted by MercArcher

So basically what I'm getting out of all the nay-sayers is they are sad that they can't just sit around greifing people all day by killing all the NPCs and players in sight for no reason other than "because I can".

 

They are opposed to hotbars because more than 2 spells confuses them

 

And want first person aiming in MMOs that traditionally have pings around 100ish that can sky rocket in large populated areas for which they said they are trying to support 200 people on screen which would make First Person targetig a cluster fuck of nothing ever happening because it would be impossible to focus fire leading to extremely boring gameplay.

 

To me that sounds like a terrible game and I along with the majority of gamers are glad they didn't take that approach.

EL OH EL

Merc you crack me up.  How much are ZOS paying you, seriously?  I could totally get in on this racket, where do I sign up?  I'd also be a LOT better at it than you because you have some glaring logic issues in your arguments.

1) FFA PVP with just consequences, guards arresting you and kicking your ass, serious punishments for criminals, bounty systems, make it difficult for criminals and murderers to survive, yes.  No other MMORPG has done this successfully.

2) Hotbars are fine.  Both Darkfall and Mortal have hotbars.  What we want to avoid is cool-downs and tab targetting.

3) Pings around 100?  Are you still on a 56k moden there buddy?  My ping to my GW2 server is 12, my ping to Darkfall US server is 31, my ping to the only Mortal Online server which is in Europe is 86, my ping to my PS2 server is 44.  Who the hell has 100 ping in an MMO these days?  Get with the times, man.  Also, having actually played FPS MMORPGs with melee, which you clearly haven't, I can objectively tell you that it is far more exciting and engaging than the number-explosions of WoW or GW2 combat.  Talk about a clusterfuck.

4) So if this has been the concensus you've gotten from your ill-conceived promotional thread paid for by our pals at Zenimax Online Studios, where exactly is this majority?  Why is TESO the lowest on the hype-meter and DF:UW the highest?  How weird that your "majority" is nowhere to be found.

Pro-tip for any kind of debate, never assume to talk for a majority unless you have evidence to back it up: you'll end up looking like Paul Ryan (ps: that means "liar").

TSW has #4 hype and is widly concidered a flop.

WoW is by far the most sucessful MMO ever and is somewhere around #50.

SWTOR, Rift, Aion, AoC, WAR, Ect. all had extremely high hypes before they launched and they all floped.

 

Hype on this site doesn't mean shit.

I think youre either hallucinating, or misunderstand how the site works. Go look at the meter again. TESO is not even on the front page for HYPE (Top Voted) , which goes to #7. The current #7 is Origins of Malu with a hype of 8.0. TESO has a 7.3. Hell TESO is getting beat out by at least  4 indie games with little funding who are currently in that top 7.

You my have been looking at "activity" (Most Popular) not hype. All that shows is how many hits the forums for that game are getting, which in TESO's case is #6 today, and not even on the top 10 list for the past week, month, 6 months, or year. Granted they released info on it fairly recently, so 6 months and 1 year dont rrally apply. But its not even in the top 10 for this week or month for forum activity, which could be either good or bad activity (the system doesnt account for either side, just hits).

  MercArcher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 59

 
OP  10/13/12 3:13:58 PM#119
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by MercArcher
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by znaiika

PvPers should consider TESO as training ground for new pvpers " pvp light virsion ".

As for hardcore pvpers, you have DF:UW coming, you have nothing to worry about, play your hardcore pvp game and support it.

Good job TESO, I love the feature you have.

What about hardcore PvPers who want to play in the world of TES?

Where's our game?

Oh is DF:UW using the TES IP now?  If so yay!  But they aren't, they're on Agon, which I could care less about.

Originally posted by MercArcher

So basically what I'm getting out of all the nay-sayers is they are sad that they can't just sit around greifing people all day by killing all the NPCs and players in sight for no reason other than "because I can".

 

They are opposed to hotbars because more than 2 spells confuses them

 

And want first person aiming in MMOs that traditionally have pings around 100ish that can sky rocket in large populated areas for which they said they are trying to support 200 people on screen which would make First Person targetig a cluster fuck of nothing ever happening because it would be impossible to focus fire leading to extremely boring gameplay.

 

To me that sounds like a terrible game and I along with the majority of gamers are glad they didn't take that approach.

EL OH EL

Merc you crack me up.  How much are ZOS paying you, seriously?  I could totally get in on this racket, where do I sign up?  I'd also be a LOT better at it than you because you have some glaring logic issues in your arguments.

1) FFA PVP with just consequences, guards arresting you and kicking your ass, serious punishments for criminals, bounty systems, make it difficult for criminals and murderers to survive, yes.  No other MMORPG has done this successfully.

2) Hotbars are fine.  Both Darkfall and Mortal have hotbars.  What we want to avoid is cool-downs and tab targetting.

3) Pings around 100?  Are you still on a 56k moden there buddy?  My ping to my GW2 server is 12, my ping to Darkfall US server is 31, my ping to the only Mortal Online server which is in Europe is 86, my ping to my PS2 server is 44.  Who the hell has 100 ping in an MMO these days?  Get with the times, man.  Also, having actually played FPS MMORPGs with melee, which you clearly haven't, I can objectively tell you that it is far more exciting and engaging than the number-explosions of WoW or GW2 combat.  Talk about a clusterfuck.

4) So if this has been the concensus you've gotten from your ill-conceived promotional thread paid for by our pals at Zenimax Online Studios, where exactly is this majority?  Why is TESO the lowest on the hype-meter and DF:UW the highest?  How weird that your "majority" is nowhere to be found.

Pro-tip for any kind of debate, never assume to talk for a majority unless you have evidence to back it up: you'll end up looking like Paul Ryan (ps: that means "liar").

TSW has #4 hype and is widly concidered a flop.

WoW is by far the most sucessful MMO ever and is somewhere around #50.

SWTOR, Rift, Aion, AoC, WAR, Ect. all had extremely high hypes before they launched and they all floped.

 

Hype on this site doesn't mean shit.

I think youre either hallucinating, or misunderstand how the site works. Go look at the meter again. TESO is not even on the front page for HYPE (Top Voted) , which goes to #7. The current #7 is Origins of Malu with a hype of 8.0. TESO has a 7.3. Hell TESO is getting beat out by at least  4 indie games with little funding who are currently in that top 7.

You my have been looking at "activity" (Most Popular) not hype. All that shows is how many hits the forums for that game are getting, which in TESO's case is #6 today, and not even on the top 10 list for the past week, month, 6 months, or year. Granted they released info on it fairly recently, so 6 months and 1 year dont rrally apply. But its not even in the top 10 for this week or month for forum activity, which could be either good or bad activity (the system doesnt account for either side, just hits).

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/all/sCol/rankHype/sOrder/desc

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/13/12 3:14:56 PM#120
Daoc has NO INSTANCES AT ALL.

Nothing is instanced in daoc, dungeons are open world, the frontiers are pvp areas of the world, even the battlegrounds for leveling pvp are not instanced.
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