I know you'll laugh or flame... but really. You know, if you had asked me 6 weeks ago, I would have taken ANY bet, that I would NEVER say that. But I actually miss quests. I mean, you know, those with an NPC standing somewhere with a ? over the head.

I so welcomed the change of GW2 at first. But after played up to level 77, I simply can not take another "event". I just can't! You see, in a quest, there is a real story I read. It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something. In games like LOTRO or SWTOR that worked even relatively well, in LOTRO because often the stuff goes on around you in the story-quests and in SWTOR because of the story of course.

But here... sure there is also a sort of "story". But in reality, it is just a one-liner, and bar that is quickly filled or emptied and I mindlessly kill stuff or gather stuff. And moments later the event restarts all over again. I think that is really the worst of it. I know I fought the Centaurs off so many times in Ascalon refugee city (not sure of the English name), and 5 minutes later it all starts over. At least in my quests in other MMOs, I had SOME illusion of a finish, especially I must say in the phased WOW quests. When I freed the Redrige Mountain area after going through that story, it WAS free! I had permanently changed it. THAT was great! I loved that. It was neither a close instance as in LOTRO or SWTOR, but not an always returning 5 minute change as in GW2. To this day I still think, despite some issues, the phasing system of WOW plus normal quests remains the best solution. I am just not returning, because it's too old for me now.

Never thought I'd say that. But at least for me this "everything is an always circling event" simply doesn't catch me. Nothing against the game, just from my experience. ;)

I respect your opinion. Figured a lot of people would feel this way.

My personal preference is big orange/red circle'd content to content within a ! or ? NPC. I understand if yours is different.

But I definitely feel I get more of a feeling of being in the actual story with Guild Wars 2. Granted, when I arrive at a location, I literally speak with every NPC and run through every option of dialogue available and that gives me my sense of location awareness and purpose of my actions.

1.) If you miss the ! and ? on NPCs head, I think you know where to go from here.

2.) If you want to get involved with the lore, talk to NPCs and stick around after a DE. Surprisingly, NPCs in this game have more than one liner dialogues, and I've encountered many having multiple conversation paths. Unfortunately these NPCs with things to say aren't especially marked; my only clue is that if they're named NPCs, but sometimes even generic NPCs have dialogue trees too.

3.) I say a very big NO to phasing. A better solution is to pump up more DEs per locale to decrease an area's repetitiveness. That's a big task, I know, but the result would be IMO wonderful.

I kinda like they panda quests >.>

Like one of the mmorpg columnist  said. "there is something theraputic" about tthem.

I detest how most quests are done in MMOs. Like a gopher you do everything they ask you to do and for the most part, you are reward with a tiny amount of money and a few lines of text. Sometimes they even send you to the same place again and again so you have to kill the same mobs over and over again just to pick up the thing you passed by the first time because they didn't provide that quest the first time and when you get back you are told to kill a special mob or they ignore you as if they 20 lion pelts meant nothing to them. Mostly I hate the petty quests that only has a few parts to it.

If I was to design a perfect MMO I would have just a single epic quest that sent you all around the world and as a diversion some unique event quests.

I can see your point but I figure if I want quests I go to another game.

I personally feel they could have incorporated both models.  e.g. Have a lot less quests but the ones you do have actually mean something and may lead you into a specific DE. 

Alternatively have 2 types of hearts for each area and even make them opposing so by doing actions for one, means you go against the other.

I would be interested to see how you would feel going back to a quest hub game.  Sometimes your perception of what you would like is different to when you go back to it.

A thoughtful and well presented critique that unlike many critical threads deserves a respectful rejoiner.

I actually understand what you mean. I thiink the only fuzzy bit from ANet's promises was 'the world stays changed because of what you do'....

.... really? I could have sworn Orr is still i the hands of the Risen despite the fact I was involved in fragging the boss!

Now I took this with the pinch of salt it required - no game can ever permanently change things (except for the odd live on-off events) for everyone based on a few, or one players actions.

What we are talking about here is the feeling you changed things.

Of course in WoW and other quest hub MMOs you don't change anything either, and phasing is a localised and pros/cons balanced sort of way of creating this illusion.... but it never really happens.

Personally, if I were at ANet and thinking of adding two things to GW2 into the future it would be as follows;

1. 10-12 man dungeons based around Guild Halls and associated NPC initiators

and since reading your post....

2. Non storyline based 'quests' in instanced sub-regions - the sub-regions reflecting permanent change from character actions

I would not however change anything substantial from what already exists - these should be game enhancements rather than changes to current content.

Originally posted by Elikal

 It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something.

Maybe if you shut your eyes really hard it does...

You're saying you'd rather have text tell you "ya done good" rather than actually see the result of what you did change the game world?

You'd rather have static, overdone, unimmersive quests, than a living game world? 

I understand that in the heat of the action you don't get the full story but, after the 20th "kill 10 wolves" quest in LotRO, I stopped caring about the story entirely, because it was always BS. 

Quest based leveling, along with instances, were the two worst things to happen to MMOs. If I could I'd get rid of the heart quests too. 

I kinda miss the older eq type of quests that took longer to complete ..  the newbie armor ones were pretty fast but even something along those lines. Or the robe of enshroudment quest for necros. That one took a while longer to do and you got a decent reward for it. It was considered a decent reward a while back anyway.

I even miss the much harder quests like the epic quests. Some were a bit too difficult but the reward was very nice. I miss quests like that ... ones that actually give you a good reward instead of just the quick 10 minute quests that give you green vendor gear ... quests that make you feel like you are actually on a "quest".

Originally posted by phoebes

I kinda miss the older eq type of quests that took longer to complete ..  the newbie armor ones were pretty fast but even something along those lines. Or the robe of enshroudment quest for necros. That one took a while longer to do and you got a decent reward for it. It was considered a decent reward a while back anyway.

I even miss the much harder quests like the epic quests. Some were a bit too difficult but the reward was very nice. I miss quests like that ... ones that actually give you a good reward instead of just the quick 10 minute quests that give you green vendor gear ... quests that make you feel like you are actually on a "quest".

Yes, I too miss when quests actually felt like quests. Rare, sprawling, difficult, filled with unique lore. 

Now, a quest is just a task. Busy work. What good quests there are are burried under the weight of a thousand chores from lazy NPCs that don't even feel like characters. At least from old quest systems you had to talk to all NPCs, and almost all of them had something to say. Maybe a handful might have a quest for you.

Now they're all marked with giant glowing icons so you know which ones are lifeless parts of the scenery and which ones are walking job boards. 

That's not a virtual world. Thats a virtual treadmill.

I miss questing to but the only game thats has quests that really change anything is a good game of Pen and Paper mno mmo will ever be able to captor that. But GW2 does give you more of a feeling your doing things right but I think they could be done better I also mis old school EQ Realm Online and EQOA quests. When WoW came out it felt freas and new but to me it got old real fast following that yellow brick road and now its time companys changed it. If they mixed DE's and some of the quest things likeTSW where you had to know lore history and such to figure out a quest yeah but going out killing 30 of this 40 of that collecting 10 of this 10 of that and 5 of this for a quest. Yeah I know GW2 does the same but I just deal with it on that I got used to the quest hub thing so this is not so bad.

I really wish that companys qould dump the standered quest set up and add more story quests and then have EXP gain be more along the lines of the way GW2 is.

I like questing, but I prefer GW2 way of presenting them.

But due to the way GW2 present its content It is not uncommon to go visit an area and see no event or barely any events and the next day with the same character or a different character completing event after event after event.

Additonally the story in GW2 is  spread out and might require several play throughs.

Scouts tell a bit of what is happening in the region, NPCs and heart quests add more to that. Then dynamic events add even more story but if you only see the Dynamic Event after it starts as opposed to talking to NPCs that initiate it or hearing the NPCs linking to it, one might not understand very well why is that person collecting this or that or why is that Krait Witch in that hylek village.

To add further insult to injury, the personal story is also tied to what is happening in several places, but since you can move freely through the world, you as a charr might not understand why the hell bandits are causing so much mayhem just outside Dvinitys reach while if you play the human personal story you will understand not only why bandits are causing such random havoc but also why the seraphs seem to be unable to deal with them.

Now, you say in other games you have an illusion of finishing but on the other hand you have no illusion of beggining.

You go talk to a NPC and he says orcs are threatning him and his farm - that is a lie since the orcs are doing nothing. You can stand there for 1 year and the orcs wont move an inch closer to the NPc or swing their swords at him. Additionally after you finish the orcs will be there while in GW2 at lest the enemies will stop being there for a bit and you even see some run for their lifes.

Phasing has advantages but then it breaks the open world - "Where are you?" "I'm in zone Y by the castle" "I'm there and I can't see you" "I'm by the front door" "Grrr damn phasing".Of course if one solo the open world one won't have these problems.

Eventually we will have a MMO that tracks time as well as space.

Originally posted by Elikal

I know you'll laugh or flame... but really. You know, if you had asked me 6 weeks ago, I would have taken ANY bet, that I would NEVER say that. But I actually miss quests. I mean, you know, those with an NPC standing somewhere with a ? over the head.

I so welcomed the change of GW2 at first. But after played up to level 77, I simply can not take another "event". I just can't! You see, in a quest, there is a real story I read. It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something.

It was just irrelevant waffle designed to give the flimsy quest some sort of pointless context.  As you say, it gave the ILLUSION of accomplishing something. Let's be real, most of us just skipped the blurb, clicked "Accept" and went into the tavern's basement to kill the usual 10 rats...

I've hated that crap for over a decade, and certainly don't miss it.

Originally posted by Elikal

I know you'll laugh or flame... but really. You know, if you had asked me 6 weeks ago, I would have taken ANY bet, that I would NEVER say that. But I actually miss quests. I mean, you know, those with an NPC standing somewhere with a ? over the head.

I so welcomed the change of GW2 at first. But after played up to level 77, I simply can not take another "event". I just can't! You see, in a quest, there is a real story I read. It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something. In games like LOTRO or SWTOR that worked even relatively well, in LOTRO because often the stuff goes on around you in the story-quests and in SWTOR because of the story of course.

But here... sure there is also a sort of "story". But in reality, it is just a one-liner, and bar that is quickly filled or emptied and I mindlessly kill stuff or gather stuff. And moments later the event restarts all over again. I think that is really the worst of it. I know I fought the Centaurs off so many times in Ascalon refugee city (not sure of the English name), and 5 minutes later it all starts over. At least in my quests in other MMOs, I had SOME illusion of a finish, especially I must say in the phased WOW quests. When I freed the Redrige Mountain area after going through that story, it WAS free! I had permanently changed it. THAT was great! I loved that. It was neither a close instance as in LOTRO or SWTOR, but not an always returning 5 minute change as in GW2. To this day I still think, despite some issues, the phasing system of WOW plus normal quests remains the best solution. I am just not returning, because it's too old for me now.

Never thought I'd say that. But at least for me this "everything is an always circling event" simply doesn't catch me. Nothing against the game, just from my experience. ;)

I guess you haven't been listening to the NPC before/after the DE, they tend to talk a lot about what's going on around them and how they want it to get fixed It is pretty much a ! and ? without the textbox.

For me Anet failed in that regard, the hearts are still "checkbox" driven, despite offering "some" variety of what you do, or instead of giving you two quests to collect and kill you can do either of those at once. I don't miss the starting and turn in npcs at all.

Despite Orr there are not enough event's happening and those who do run, don't scale well. Tying the Hearts to map completion is also just plain annoying.

So i can understand the people who want a more classical approach, but be assured, us "free spirits" aren't happy either.

Currently it's an annoying hybrid approach to questing.

[mod edit] What's the point of being disappointed about features that aren't in a game that no one is forcing you to play and not something you enjoy?  I will never understand it.  I swear you've already posted threads like this one... or was it about the Trinity?  Either way, it's like if I kept posting threads in the TSW forums about how their events aren't dynamic enough and I miss them.  What's the point?  The game is not magically going to start giving you everything you want just because you want to like it.  Here's a hint, maybe you (and others) don't actually like it and as a result, shouldn't be stressing yourself out over playing it.

Maybe you should "quest" for a new game.

Originally posted by Elikal

I know you'll laugh or flame... but really. You know, if you had asked me 6 weeks ago, I would have taken ANY bet, that I would NEVER say that. But I actually miss quests. I mean, you know, those with an NPC standing somewhere with a ? over the head.

I so welcomed the change of GW2 at first. But after played up to level 77, I simply can not take another "event". I just can't! You see, in a quest, there is a real story I read. It has a sort of purpose, and once done it gives me the illusion, I have accomplished something. In games like LOTRO or SWTOR that worked even relatively well, in LOTRO because often the stuff goes on around you in the story-quests and in SWTOR because of the story of course.

But here... sure there is also a sort of "story". But in reality, it is just a one-liner, and bar that is quickly filled or emptied and I mindlessly kill stuff or gather stuff. And moments later the event restarts all over again. I think that is really the worst of it. I know I fought the Centaurs off so many times in Ascalon refugee city (not sure of the English name), and 5 minutes later it all starts over. At least in my quests in other MMOs, I had SOME illusion of a finish, especially I must say in the phased WOW quests. When I freed the Redrige Mountain area after going through that story, it WAS free! I had permanently changed it. THAT was great! I loved that. It was neither a close instance as in LOTRO or SWTOR, but not an always returning 5 minute change as in GW2. To this day I still think, despite some issues, the phasing system of WOW plus normal quests remains the best solution. I am just not returning, because it's too old for me now.

Never thought I'd say that. But at least for me this "everything is an always circling event" simply doesn't catch me. Nothing against the game, just from my experience. ;)

I respect your right to have this opinion, however since gw2 is the only game in the massive genre of mmo without such quests, I feel you should just quit and play one of the other games that have these quests.

I'm not sure that i want my quests back, but a bit more structured approach with emphasis on story would be nice. However, we have heart quests for that purpose (to a certain degree).

Regarding ! and ? quest system, I've tried again some of it in SWTOR and after playing GW2, it feels ancient and obsolete.

A bit offtopic but, I like the approach that Wildstar is taking with Twitter message size quest text (similar to Borderlands).