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News & Features Discussion  » [Editorial] General: How F2P Is Killing Gaming – Part Two

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101 posts found
  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2684

Ignorance is Bliss.

10/12/12 7:30:28 PM#21

Let's get a 2 things right here.

 

After Square Enix developers admitted that Final Fantasy 14 wasn't a good game, they supported the game completely FREE for over a year. They only began to recharge earlier this year, at a lowered price, because after all the major patches, they felt happy enough with the state of the game to start charging again (and the game did improve quite a bit).

 

On the community aspect, blaming it on F2Ps is absolutely ridiculous. You don't even need to look too far to see how it has nothing to do with the business model, and everything to do with the  gaming industry attracting more people to gaming and the games themselves focusing more on single player activities despite being an MMORPG. Look at WoW, EVE, DarkFall...although a part of their community is very mature, they also have a very immature part as well. Console games...not F2P games there, yet there are so many players who have nothing but vile things to say. Suffice to say, it has nothing to do with the business model.

Another misguided accusation.

 

------
Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

10/12/12 7:59:48 PM#22

So, this is an editorial, i.e. "an article in a publication expressing the opinion of its editors or publishers". (Quote from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/editorial). Or do the editors and publishers here just don't know what an editorial is?

Awfully sorry, but I find the article (and part one of it as well), let's say, pretty amateur writing. One wonders why the subscription games get high review scores here when the editors think they're a "continual letdown".

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  MoeMoeKyun

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/10
Posts: 75

10/12/12 8:26:58 PM#23
how does it feel if u buy a new PC title & can't sell it as 2nd hand later since u have to register every new PC games u bought  nowadays on steam... i guess these ppl needs to blame themselves, not teh consumers....
 
i liek to play F2P but it depends who publish it... but i have a very bad experience on AeriaGames regarding bout P2W & gambling stuffs...
  AdamTM

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 1395

I'M PUNCHING YOUR SALAD!!!!

10/12/12 8:33:31 PM#24
Originally posted by Larsa

So, this is an editorial, i.e. "an article in a publication expressing the opinion of its editors or publishers". (Quote from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/editorial). Or do the editors and publishers here just don't know what an editorial is?

Awfully sorry, but I find the article (and part one of it as well), let's say, pretty amateur writing. One wonders why the subscription games get high review scores here when the editors think they're a "continual letdown".

The writers on this site never had a clear grasp on what they are actually doing.

I'm only here for the forums.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1607

10/12/12 8:50:52 PM#25
Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Let's get a 2 things right here.

 

After Square Enix developers admitted that Final Fantasy 14 wasn't a good game, they supported the game completely FREE for over a year. They only began to recharge earlier this year, at a lowered price, because after all the major patches, they felt happy enough with the state of the game to start charging again (and the game did improve quite a bit).

 

On the community aspect, blaming it on F2Ps is absolutely ridiculous. You don't even need to look too far to see how it has nothing to do with the business model, and everything to do with the  gaming industry attracting more people to gaming and the games themselves focusing more on single player activities despite being an MMORPG. Look at WoW, EVE, DarkFall...although a part of their community is very mature, they also have a very immature part as well. Console games...not F2P games there, yet there are so many players who have nothing but vile things to say. Suffice to say, it has nothing to do with the business model.

Another misguided accusation.

 

Contributing factor ... not the only factor. You should try to understand the difference. You obviously have not been part of a community prior to the game going F2P and then witnessed the dramatic change in community after. The impact on Lotro was severe and immediate and has evolved into an entirely different game since. It plays a part. It plays a part in a way most do not understand by both direct and indirect measures. 

 

The examples you give are games where the community is either very large and community fracture is inevitable or also very competitive which offers it's own unique twist on community relations. To think someone saying F2P affects community is the only reason behind community synergy is obtuse in the extreme. When an article discusses on particular subject you tend to focus your replies on that subject. It does not insinuate no other meaningful issues exist within the mmo genre.

 

To sum up the naivety of your post with a question:  What honestly do you think would happen to the community in Wow if they suddenly went entirely F2P with in game cash store?

 

That should truly test your understanding of the F2P model.

You stay sassy!

  troublmaker

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/11
Posts: 340

10/12/12 8:56:09 PM#26

Blaming the growth of free to play games to a weak community is like blaming the growth of low income housing to the death of your inner city community.

No the real killer for the community is the growth of the industry period.  When there was a community it was because the industry was so niche that maybe only a million or two were actually doing it.  Now you're looking at an industry of 50-100M people.  When your population booms the specialness of small numbers vanishes.

It has nothing at all to do with the free to play model.  The fact that the free to play model has increased the size of the community total by trying to get people to play their games means THEIR communities are probably bad.

If anything you might be able to attribute the death of the community in cities instead on the increase in low income housing but instead on the decrease of high income housing.  There are TONES of communities in my city... you just have to go to the suburbs which are technically outside of city limits to get to it.  Beyond those burbs the rest of the city is immigrants... new arrivals.

If you need further proof look to World of Warcraft, which isn't free to play.  This game is huge and barely has a community, not a free to play game.  On the other hand Eve's community is so small that they work with the developers to help develop the game.

I think the author has confused correlation with causation.

Next up why having high self esteem doesn't cause high performance in school.

Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/users/thetroublmaker

  DarthMajin

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/08
Posts: 91

10/12/12 9:57:15 PM#27
Originally posted by Tamanous

 

In some games today this is so extreme that 80+% of the games income comes from <5% of the playerbase. I have yet to see even a single company prove their CS does not cater in any way to that <5%. You will end up logging into a world defined by it's highest paying customers and not a game driven by the vision of it's developers.

I used to think that way about F2P. But after STO went that direction, I think they have done a great job. You can either spend real money on the CS or you can grind in game to earn the ZEN for the CS. I prefer the grind and earn a nice 200 ZEN every day and buy what I want off the cash shop that way. STO is a prime example of how a F2P game should be. They get good content releases and it's all FREE except ships and other fluff. But the main content (leveling and questing) is all Free for everyone.

  Akrux

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/04
Posts: 56

10/12/12 10:00:00 PM#28

Profanity is an issue in all games not just F2P. Sure a subscription based game has the ultimate right to ban a player but they rarely if ever do.

Some F2P games have been accused of a double sided policy. Baning profane freebie players but not the profane players who visit the cash shop.

To argue that profanity is rising because F2P is rising is just wrong IMO. 

  shava

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/05
Posts: 278

10/12/12 11:01:04 PM#29

This is why guilds have become of paramount importance and PUGs suck.  But this isn't all to be laid at the feet of F2P.  Some of it has to be put to another factor.

 

Listen, I have been working on the Internet since 1982.  When I got my first email address I am given to understand there were less than 5000 on the Internet proper.  USENET was a civil little social club where really, everyone knew each other as though it were a small techie campus of like minded geeks, for the most part, although (like any campus) we had our flamage and cultural divides (thus was born the alt.* heirarchy).

 

Then in 1989, this guy in the US Senate decided that the backbone needed to get off the National Science Foundation tab (who'd taken it up after DARPA), and get picked up by the private sector.  By making the backbone of the computer networks that made up the Internet private, any company could join, not just military contractors and researchers and engineering schools.

 

Thus, Senator Al Gore reinvented the Internet, and shortly thereafter, AOL let their hoards onto the net, and it was the end of the freaking world.

 

My point is, it wasn't.  Every one of you is here very much post the END OF THE INTERNET, and some large proportion of you weren't born when the Internet culture death knells were rung over the walled garden walls coming down and the advent of spam and all the freaking rude clueless NOOBS coming in from AOL and everywhere else.  But especially AOL.

 

And, in case you hadn't noticed, the Internet survived.  It just gave birth to lovely civil venues like this message board.  (smiley left off for emphasis)

 

Free to play is the same thing.  It is not killing the game industry -- it is forcing adaptation in ways you are not comfortable with.  You can't turn back the clock.  You'd be a lot better off thinking about more positive things like:

 

  • How can I help game companies develop social tools to help better players encourage good behavior in games?
  • What are better tools for a wider variety of guild structures?
  • What kinds of games encourage community and make money for game studios?
  • How can we prove to game studios that good community means profit, too?
  • Are indy games the new path for games with strong community, and if so what funding models (crowdsourcing?  subs for games with less than next-gen graphics and features?) will support those games?
 
That would be a better column, frankly, and a more forward reaching discussion.
  Gruug

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 1094

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

10/12/12 11:24:20 PM#30

I agree with the article up to a point. Not quite 100% but close. I think that F2P is the worst thing for gaming and in the end will kill most quality titles from ever reaching any kind of audience. Why? Because F2P is meant to be marketed to "everyone" and not be great for anyone. Companies want to get as many people to come play so that they can get a FEW to pay. I would rather have a good quality game that I pay for up front rather then a ho-hum game that is diluted for the masses.

Of course, f2p is a lie. It is not free.....someone HAS TO PAY for it to survive. And if some pays, it can't be free.

 

 

Let's party like it is 1863!

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4669

10/13/12 2:00:13 AM#31

Anyone thinking that a game is free is extremely desillusional. Nothing is free!

A dev house is not a charity institution. It's a business and a business needs to make money.

 
  jinxxed0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 845

10/13/12 2:51:00 AM#32

The problem is that gamers aren't making these games anyone. they're playing these terrible games or churning out mediocre indy games because they don't have the means to make a studio quality game. Meanwhile the companies that make studio games are way out of touch. They're old men who only see dollar signs.

 

I hope the industry dies and they all leave and go back to ruinging television. And let gamers make games again. That's the only way games will stop sucking.

  Olgark

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 270

10/13/12 2:57:54 AM#33

F2P games are runing the gaming industry.

As games shift to the F2P model I am seeing that there is nothing new being made in terms of game mechanics or ideas. All of them seem based off old EQ (EQ came before WoW check your history.)  game play mechanics with just different textures and models. SWTOR was the last sub based game to do this and I think due to its failure devs are taking note and are now trying new ideas for the games they are making.

 

Also F2P games means your going to be spending way more than the standard £8 a month sub fee on adventure packs, EXP boosts and when playing Perfect World MMO's Identity Scrolls at a silly amount of money. Or you end up grinding the same content over and over.

As for community the best two communities for MMO's at present are Eve Online and The Secret World.

I would prefer to pay per month for a great game than pay untold amounts on a F2P game thats always asking you for money to do the cool stuff.

 

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1755

10/13/12 2:58:56 AM#34
Originally posted by shava

Free to play is the same thing.  It is not killing the game industry -- it is forcing adaptation in ways you are not comfortable with.  You can't turn back the clock.

Great post, and the internet evolution is a fitting example for f2p.

It's not 'killing' anything, it changes gaming as we know now and liked in the past. Sure, many of the older gamers won't like the changes f2p brings in... but it will happen anyways. I think it's not even the industry's plan (there's no evil scheme for let's go and destroy gaming...), they're only following the demand, the widening group of casuals, the youngsters, etc.

It may sound weird to someone who played with subscription for years (and most of us fall into this category), but there are lots and lots of people, who like this new model. And in time their number will go up, while the protester's group will get narrow.

It's sad, but as shava wrote, the best thing we can do is try to find some positive in the whole process. (I, for example like that I can log in anytime for a quick chat or an assist to my buddies without dropping 1month in. It's not much, but at least something positive :) )

  william0532

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 234

10/13/12 3:17:24 AM#35

Awesome, so f2p games killed community? Glad to know, even though community started to whittle away before f2p came into full swing(mostly with those leet terms and behaviors garnered from WoW), but sure I guess its a possibility. My neighbor works at the police department, I'll let him know about his community corrupting behavior and see if he can make a correlation between f2P games and crime increases.

 

I'm not a fan of f2p(and no, not because they screw dumb people into wasting money for the newest horse mount), soley because they don't garner the revenue for long term developement of  content. Of course, no sub games are really doing that outside of WoW either though. Six months and done, seems to have been the pattern of all mmo's. Or they sit at a happy medium where they have 300k to 500k subs and garner a niche for themselves while being heraled as the newest flop in the industry on gaming forums.

 

No, what I believe killed community, is culture. Gaming culture has been changing just a tad every year since gaming came out. Blaming f2p for community is like blaming murder on the weapons used and not the person. Not to mention, that people are more sensitive about their feelings than they ever were in history as well.

  Rizon538

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 31

10/13/12 4:16:13 AM#36
I would have read this article but it had an ad for F2P games sitting on top of 3 paragraphs.
  Akumawraith

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 152

Why is it said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? Is there a shortage of bad ones?

10/13/12 7:29:07 AM#37
Originally posted by Tamanous

To sum up the naivety of your post with a question:  What honestly do you think would happen to the community in Wow if they suddenly went entirely F2P with in game cash store?

 

That should truly test your understanding of the F2P model.

What would happen if WoW turned entirely to a F2P model .. what kind of community would it have?

These are pointless questions. WoW has a melting pot of Uber players and asshats, just like anyothr game. What sets WoW apart from F2P games at this point is that the trolls and tards are paying as well.

As far as that "at this time" comment about wow. its 9 years strong and supposedly has over 10 million accounts active.. No other game can boast that.. ever. When a game finally does itll probably be because Blizzard shut WoW done in favor of whatever this Titan Project is.

And yes, Blizzard also has a CS for WOW.. but Blizz doesnt offer points or coins. Its straight cash for a digital item or you can order Affiliated items. They have not stooped to pounding out a but ton of mounts, pets, stupid vanity skins, skill reset scrolls, gambling Tokens(Eden Crystals), character slots, bag slots, omfg the list goes on.. simply put the sub model for games has so far proven to be the longer running version and the one that has paid more attention to the player.. yeah blizz sold out to the Gimmee Generation.. screwed all those millions of players with every new expansion.. Yeah the Armor sets in WOW now look like geeks in Spandex with a bad paintjob.... yeah Content wise Every new expansion is getting less and less  material/dungons/raids...

But all in all is that very surprising? Blizzard had a game come out (D3), Had another game coming out in July (Starctraft 2) and is developing a new MMO for release in 2015 (Project Titan).. and is still releasing expansions... Thats what happens with "Solid" Sub-based games.

Unfortunately that is not always the case and as another posted you have players from WoW that bounce to other games and complain and compare... in thier defense I will only say this:  WoW is nearly 10 years old, Graphics have been upgrades since its release, New game engines have been released since 2004, Higher standards of sound and design have been created since WoWs birth.. SO WHY THE HELL CAN NO ONE DO IT RIGHT?

Its hard to beat a game with 10 million Subs so most companies gave up.. F2P is around.. get used to it. Itll prolly get worse before it gets better. But again with the Sub based games its no different.. how many have come and gone in the last 9 years? Say what you want about WoW.. the one thing it has that no other game does... Stability...

 

Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT

Playing: WoT and anything else to break the boredom until something better comes out.

Tired of: Linear Quest games, Dailies, and Dumbed down games

Anticipating:Star Citizen,Citadel of Sorcery

  halo_0_1

Novice Member

Joined: 11/11/10
Posts: 7

10/13/12 8:37:33 AM#38

Going to get lots of hate for this, but..

Ahem... RuneScape. They're doing it right. (Except for the newer cosmetic item shops)

  texwash

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/04
Posts: 36

10/13/12 8:41:01 AM#39
Originally posted by Volgore

"...after titles like Final Fantasy XIV, Star Wars Galaxies"

Guess you meant TOR?

He means Star Wars Galxies.  SWG was epic the first 6-9 months then Sony destroyed it.

  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6602

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

10/13/12 8:45:00 AM#40
When devs stop treating f2p games like slot machines we might see an improvement but I doubt that will happen. They are all too money hungry to care about the quality of gaming.
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