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Originally posted by Zeppelin4
If they let me setup a shop at my house I will come back until then I will pass. I can play GW2 for free and Wow for the same game play as Rift for the most part with more content. 

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I read that was one of the future plans for dimensions. And when Trion says they are planning something, it pretty much happens hehe.

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Jebasiz1

 

I guess, all I can say to people who would dismiss rift after level 20 because 'leveling is chore'..is, it was fun when there were a lot of level 20s to go with..NO GAME, maintains a population of players sub level cap after 2 years.  

 

Um, WoW did for about 4.  EQ did for about 6.  Not uncoincidentally, both games showed long periods of growth.

I played EQ for 10 years, and the vast majority of it's population was almost always level capped or well on it's way there(at least after Velious launched).  Anyone that wasn't 60, was part of a small portion of new players or alts, Rift has that too.  As for WoW, I have no idea, it took me less then a week to go from 1 to 60, playing a game I was sure I didn't even like, just because friends said it got better once I could start raiding..

I tried it but i did not like it's WOWesque type delivery.

Example ,i like games that give me the feeling of an epic universe.Wow starts you in some very small meaningless village and just dots some quests around that hub.Rift does the same thing.Yes Rift had some action going on ,but it just seemed meaningless clutter.The Rifts were repeating and in the same spots and the small amount of action had really no relation to your Role playing experience.

I like games that start me in some massive city or in case of Vanguard a ton of action and i need to escape my captors.Rift starts you in a very small map that has you bascially wander in a linear fashion to the top of the hill to enter to the next linear questing map.

So bottom line is ,you can add a ton of that content,it won't interest me anymore than it did on the first map.I also had no sense of realisim because by time i hit map 2 i already had a ridiculous array of skills to choose from.It was like i aged 30 years in a matter of 2 days,very unrealistic and too easy a rewarding system.You shoudl feel like levels are earned and skills are tough to come by.

Linear questing imo totally ruins games and their immersion.This is because you already know the result of the content,you follow the quests and you are lead to the next leveling stage.it gives zero indication of a free gaming world nor a role playing world.it is the same mistakes Funcom are following which is to deliver a single player game experience over a MMO one.

I do understand the marketing behind it,as is easier to reach out to solo players who simply follow the linear structure and are given rewards to help them advance to the next.I care more about gaming than leveling ,therfore i do not want any arrows or linear path to follow.

Trion COULD have pulled this off "IF" they had of put a better effort into Rifts and Invasions.You see this would be a nice addition to allow players to skip out on linear questing/leveling treadmill.However they become so apparently generic and repetitive that i found myself not caring about that content after only a few days.So i went back to follolwing the linear questing,something i don't like and soon had to quit the game.

Originally posted by Jebasiz1

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Jebasiz1

 

I guess, all I can say to people who would dismiss rift after level 20 because 'leveling is chore'..is, it was fun when there were a lot of level 20s to go with..NO GAME, maintains a population of players sub level cap after 2 years.  

 

Um, WoW did for about 4.  EQ did for about 6.  Not uncoincidentally, both games showed long periods of growth.

I played EQ for 10 years, and the vast majority of it's population was almost always level capped or well on it's way there(at least after Velious launched).  Anyone that wasn't 60, was part of a small portion of new players or alts, Rift has that too.  As for WoW, I have no idea, it took me less then a week to go from 1 to 60, playing a game I was sure I didn't even like, just because friends said it got better once I could start raiding..

The fastest time from 1-60 pre-BC was about 6 days /played.  So no, you did not go from 1-60 in less than a week.  And as for EQ, I leveled a character exclusively through LDoNs once that expansion hit and it never took more than 5-10 minutes to assemble a group as a DPS.  And that was over 4 years after launch.  Sure, most of the player base was max level, but the low level game was still thriving and new people were still joining.

I have a craving for Rift,GW2,VG,TSW,and Fallout 3....

I wish I was an octopus with 5 computers.

What is so bad about linear content?  I know people want to have 'freedom' in their gameplay, but having a clustered set of goals just means less travel time and more time actually engaged in the game, to me.  Having to go through 20mins of travel to talk to one npc, to get a quest to kill another 14 mins away from him/her to get a drop to bring back to the first npc..is a headache, not freedom.  Starting in one area of a map and methodically moving through it is more efficient.  Other games that have several expansions already have more 'overlapping' content, granted..but it took most of them a long time to get that way.

Rift needs to work on their tradeskills and economy driven aspects of the game..perhaps dimensions will provide a vehicle for those.  Story-line quests, should be more 'epic' in nature and in general just take more effort outside of just attaining a raid drop, after doing what equates to just a long quest line(there should be unique things to do or mobs to kill along your way through the quest).  Something along the lines of the coldain shawl or dain ring quests of EQ(both of which are so far and away the best quests in the MMO genre, that nothing else even comes close with respect to both quality and scale), would be received so well..it's mind-blowing that it hasn't been a model for every game since 2002 when those quests were written.  Other then the lack of class/game defining 'moments', through a few exceptional events or quests..Rift is doing quite well, and to be honest..'most' mmos, lack those exceptional moments, which is why the words 'bland' and 'stale' get tossed around so much when describing the gaming industry.

As for other replies;

You only macro if you want to.

You only have to go quest to quest..if you choose to(you can do instant adventures, dungeons, warfronts, conquest..rifts, crafting rifts, raid rifts, pvp rifts, 10man raids, 20 man raids, onslaughts, chronicles..) to break up monotony.

You can spec anyway you'd like..it'd serve you better to have some synergy between your callings, so your abilities build upon each other..

Gaining abilities quickly only happens because they made leveling less of a 'chore'.  Most builds even at level 50, have 4-5 'bread and butter' abilities, and then things that augment them, pending the spec and calling it could be 5 more buttons..but it's not hard to get down.  Mages are an exception with 2 'dps builds', taking a while to learn and having complicated rotations/casting priority based systems.  This may change some next week with 1.11(patch).

Basically, I viewed rift as a standard MMO, that had 'more commercials' then the other games available.  Questing, leveling, grinding, is always about the same in any mmorpg, with Rift, I have more things to break up monotony and more ways of playing my character(s) then any game I had looked into before(or since).  It's the variety, and their unapologetic way of making laethys hard enough to knock guild's on their butts for 3 months and say tough s****, that keeps me interested.  Yes, the fight has been nerfed recently, but it's still no cakewalk and I like that. 

Originally posted by Jebasiz1

What is so bad about linear content?  I know people want to have 'freedom' in their gameplay, but having a clustered set of goals just means less travel time and more time actually engaged in the game, to me.  Having to go through 20mins of travel to talk to one npc, to get a quest to kill another 14 mins away from him/her to get a drop to bring back to the first npc..is a headache, not freedom.  Starting in one area of a map and methodically moving through it is more efficient.  Other games that have several expansions already have more 'overlapping' content, granted..but it took most of them a long time to get that way.

I dont think you understand.  People want more than one zone.  More than one quest path through a zone.  It has absolutely zero to do with travel times between quests.

Rift needs to work on their tradeskills and economy driven aspects of the game..perhaps dimensions will provide a vehicle for those.  Story-line quests, should be more 'epic' in nature and in general just take more effort outside of just attaining a raid drop, after doing what equates to just a long quest line(there should be unique things to do or mobs to kill along your way through the quest).  Something along the lines of the coldain shawl or dain ring quests of EQ(both of which are so far and away the best quests in the MMO genre, that nothing else even comes close with respect to both quality and scale), would be received so well..it's mind-blowing that it hasn't been a model for every game since 2002 when those quests were written. 

Why not look to Hartsman previous game?  EQ2 has TONS of heroic quest content with the Heritage quests and then some epic lines as well.

Other then the lack of class/game defining 'moments', through a few exceptional events or quests..Rift is doing quite well, and to be honest..'most' mmos, lack those exceptional moments, which is why the words 'bland' and 'stale' get tossed around so much when describing the gaming industry.

No MMORPG has the storytelling aspects of WoW, thats one of the reasons why its king.  But there is a distinct lack of personality throughout Rift.  And come on, 4 races?  Really?  And you can't even develop those races?

As for other replies;

You only macro if you want to.

You only have to go quest to quest..if you choose to(you can do instant adventures, dungeons, warfronts, conquest..rifts, crafting rifts, raid rifts, pvp rifts, 10man raids, 20 man raids, onslaughts, chronicles..) to break up monotony.

Most of these arent an option until level 50.  Warfronts and conquest are the same thing.  Instant Adventures are so tedious as leveling content, it is good for a break in the acton though.  But I think overall people are fine with the variety of things to do, its the variety of places to do them thats really lacking.

You can spec anyway you'd like..it'd serve you better to have some synergy between your callings, so your abilities build upon each other..

Gaining abilities quickly only happens because they made leveling less of a 'chore'.  Most builds even at level 50, have 4-5 'bread and butter' abilities, and then things that augment them, pending the spec and calling it could be 5 more buttons..but it's not hard to get down.  Mages are an exception with 2 'dps builds', taking a while to learn and having complicated rotations/casting priority based systems.  This may change some next week with 1.11(patch).

Basically, I viewed rift as a standard MMO, that had 'more commercials' then the other games available.  Questing, leveling, grinding, is always about the same in any mmorpg, with Rift, I have more things to break up monotony and more ways of playing my character(s) then any game I had looked into before(or since).  It's the variety, and their unapologetic way of making laethys hard enough to knock guild's on their butts for 3 months and say tough s****, that keeps me interested.  Yes, the fight has been nerfed recently, but it's still no cakewalk and I like that. 

Why cant they translate that difficulty to group content?  or even 10 man raids?  Would be nice to have true master modes, or better yet a big, punishing open world dungeon.  

Originally posted by Jebasiz1

As for other replies;

You only macro if you want to.

 

The problem being, any game that can be mastered by making an easy macro doesnt have much in the way of thinking required anyway. There is very little difference between smashing the 1 key and going down the keyboard in order if the core combat can be broken down into a simple cast order priority.

At least WoW and EQ2, while they still heavily support macros, have interesting situational spells that spice it up a bit. I never felt that way about Rift.

Originally posted by Adamantine

Took me 5 minutes with their website to remove Rift from my list:

- Only 6 races. => Gah.

- Darkelves exist (Yay !) but have no dark skin. => GAH !

- Enforced Racial wars. => SUPER GAH !

- Only 4 Classes with the riddiculous forced multiple time subclassing like I know and hate it from DA:O. => Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Just to be clear, I dont oppose subclassing and multiclassing at all. What I consider riddiculous is getting forced into subclassing and/or multiclassing, just to gain numerically a high "variance". That variance is a fake.

Any such system will have multiple subclasses that have synergy. These combination will be what will be played in the end.

That means if you have 12 subclasses and force the player to choose 3 of them, best case scenario is that you get 4 actual classes out of it. Because rarely will players choose subclass combinations of low synergy - and if they do, they will get most likely frustrated. They will for sure not gain entrance into the more powerful guilds.

MMOs are highly competitive environments. Being underpowered is not an enjoyable fate.

 

Yeah, and it is very clear that you walked away with very little in the way of facts. Perhaps asking questions rather than posting your 5 minutes of wonderous insight would have been better.

6 races, ok, I admit that I like more races rather than fewer. I loved Vanguard and EQ2 before SOE took the F2P chainsaw to them. But come on, this is a rather small thing to get bent up about.

Dark Elves? Yeah, I never like the Kelari, too emo for me. But again, do you really only choose games that have dark skinned dark elves in them? You are really going to limit your field that much?

Yeah I never liked the two factions at war system. This was obviously pulled straight from the WoW playbook but at least Rift iterates fast enough that they have largely stepped away from this model on the PvE servers moving in favor of a 3 sided pvp system where either faction can choose from any of the 3 pvp sides. Oh, but you wouldn't know about that since you only spent 5 minutes evaluating the game.

Your last point and following commentary is almost laughable. Rift may be an aquired tasted and not for everybody but really, you have never played a class system like this in another game. You really can't get it without at least trying it. If you don't want to take the chance on wasted money I can certainly understand but then again, you can play to lvl 20 for free. Of course you might not have seen that with only a scant 5 minutes to spend finding things out.

Also, anyone who has played the game could have told you that your 12 subclasses dividing into 4 really classes is simply misinformed.  At the very very least, all 8 souls, soon to be 9 can be played "deep" that is putting 51 out of 66 points into that one sould and the remaining 15 into another. This at the very least produces 8 or 9 very different classes. a 51 bard / 15 ranger plays very very different from a 51 ranger / 15 bard. they are not even comparible and in fact, they cannot queue for the same position in a dungeon run. the former being a support class and the later being a dps. This doesn't even take into account how much  a spec will change just by changing the 15 point soul and also don't take into account all the viable hybrid combinations. You can get a lot of playable specs out of a single class. Not just theoretical specs either, but actual commonly played specs. Perhaps leave your theorycrafting to games you spend more than 5 minutes researching.

I wish i could get into this game, I tried to I just can't get into the world. The races feel uninteresting, the lore is rather dull. I can see how they made a great game and thats the sad part, it does have the kind of support and features I would like to have.

Great game makers, uninspired storytellers and world crafters.

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Originally posted by Fendel84M
I wish i could get into this game, I tried to I just can't get into the world. The races feel uninteresting, the lore is rather dull. I can see how they made a great game and thats the sad part, it does have the kind of support and features I would like to have.

Great game makers, uninspired storytellers and world crafters.

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I felt the same way when i first started playing. But the subtle animations and day night cycles and weather really won me over. Then i turned off the music and heard all of the ambient sounds and the little things like insects and grass swaying, critters scurrying about, animals sleeping etc and it sealed the deal.
Stuff like that is extremely personal preference though. If it doesnt grab you, it doesnt grab you heh. Just the way it is.

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Jebasiz1

As for other replies;

You only macro if you want to.

 

 

The problem being, any game that can be mastered by making an easy macro doesnt have much in the way of thinking required anyway. There is very little difference between smashing the 1 key and going down the keyboard in order if the core combat can be broken down into a simple cast order priority.

At least WoW and EQ2, while they still heavily support macros, have interesting situational spells that spice it up a bit. I never felt that way about Rift.

Nearly every hotbar game can be reduced to a series of macros simply because of the way the skills and combat are designed.  While I agree that some calling/soul combos in Rift can be played in faceroll macro fashion, it's been my experience that many others require just as much timing and strategy present in games like EQ2.  Also, there is no shortage of situational abilities/spells; though again some soul combinations will rely on them much more.

More OT, I like Rift.  I guess only being casually acquainted with WoW (spent much more time in SWG and EQ2) hasn't turned me against that type of themepark.  In fact, I think the game owes almost as much to EQ2 as WoW these days, particularly with housing on the frontier.  It's a bit sad that it gets dumped on so much on these forums since it has demonstrably active and committed devs, more open environments than even some recent games have had, a  negligible cash shop, a large RvRvR instanced PvP zone, and so many of the other bells and whistles folks around here demand games have.  I definitely understand if it's just not to someone's taste but it's one of the better MMOs around.

Originally posted by Fendel84M

I wish i could get into this game, I tried to I just can't get into the world. The races feel uninteresting, the lore is rather dull. I can see how they made a great game and thats the sad part, it does have the kind of support and features I would like to have.

Great game makers, uninspired storytellers and world crafters.

Regarding the world, I pretty much agree. The lore I found to be on the bland side, and the small small world (and just one starting zone per faction!) didn't help. And these things are really important to me in MMOs, so it's been sort of a sticking point.

Though there is some good stuff in there as well: I like the visual style, I like the soul system, I like the pace of combat (a bit on the slower side), and some of the zones had solid atmosphere (I just loved Gloamwood).

So this has been one of those games I like checking into once every few months.

If they keep adding zones and non-combat stuff like this (housing seems massive and cool though uninstanced)... Who knows, it might even turn into a keeper.

Originally posted by JackFrosty

RIFT is the best MMO I have ever played, and I've tried a lot of them. TRION pushes out content so fast you literally never have time to be bored, and it's QUALITY content. Absolutely amazing stuff.

The amount of stuff they are bringing out in their expansion is more content then most games LAUNCH with. They are tripling the world size just for starters.

Absolutely amazing game and the first 20 levels are free so why not give it a shot :)  The only thing you'll miss is Panda's or wandering around maps being bored collecting pies for Centaurs.

The Trion team is simply very good at pushing out content at a solid pace. I no longer go back to WoW but rather I go back to Rift because there is always something new. 

for anyone really wanting to try this game again id def wait until they drop the expansion as of today the class overhaul patch just about annoyed or pissed off majority of the player base . They basically redid completely all the orginal souls in the game and it was rushed through , typical trion and there is huge balance issues and classes that cannot even survive 2 or 3 mobs hitting them at once now. Id suggest giving the game some time before coming back during what i imagine to be a full week or two of frustration.

Bugged things ,Valor is bugged and being nurfed tomorrow , clerics cloro unkillable as healing is bugged. Warriors doing 7k DPS now all bugged out with everyone else around 5-6k . Rogues lost all surviviability builds for melee , so no more RS/AS/BD aoe grinding anymore , same with warriors like reaver/rift farming all gone. I can keep going but just go look at the general forums on their site to see for yourself.

Originally posted by cronius77

for anyone really wanting to try this game again id def wait until they drop the expansion as of today the class overhaul patch just about annoyed or pissed off majority of the player base . They basically redid completely all the orginal souls in the game and it was rushed through , typical trion and there is huge balance issues and classes that cannot even survive 2 or 3 mobs hitting them at once now. Id suggest giving the game some time before coming back during what i imagine to be a full week or two of frustration.

Bugged things ,Valor is bugged and being nurfed tomorrow , clerics cloro unkillable as healing is bugged. Warriors doing 7k DPS now all bugged out with everyone else around 5-6k . Rogues lost all surviviability builds for melee , so no more RS/AS/BD aoe grinding anymore , same with warriors like reaver/rift farming all gone. I can keep going but just go look at the general forums on their site to see for yourself.

Chloromancer unkillable? Common.... Its very squishy . Its a support spec so if a chloro has a good group protecting him is going to be harder to kill. Soloable is VERY easy to kill.

Overall I like the changes. Only complaints I heard are about warrior rdps being nerfed.

You know that you can mix many specs right? I am sure of it. Try many combinations and find the game is not as unbalanced as it seems.

For example, people complaints about rogue. But rogues in rift are not the typicall ones. People forget they are rdps rogues like marksman, ranger (my main level 50) and healer rogues as well. They hit hard , very hard.

What I like most about rift´s pvp is that every class can kill another, you always get surprises in pvp. And now with the addittion of 4 new souls game will be funnier than ever.

Rift its not a perfect game but dont forget it is a PVE game with some pvp attached. 

Originally posted by Mesfenlir

Originally posted by cronius77

for anyone really wanting to try this game again id def wait until they drop the expansion as of today the class overhaul patch just about annoyed or pissed off majority of the player base . They basically redid completely all the orginal souls in the game and it was rushed through , typical trion and there is huge balance issues and classes that cannot even survive 2 or 3 mobs hitting them at once now. Id suggest giving the game some time before coming back during what i imagine to be a full week or two of frustration.

Bugged things ,Valor is bugged and being nurfed tomorrow , clerics cloro unkillable as healing is bugged. Warriors doing 7k DPS now all bugged out with everyone else around 5-6k . Rogues lost all surviviability builds for melee , so no more RS/AS/BD aoe grinding anymore , same with warriors like reaver/rift farming all gone. I can keep going but just go look at the general forums on their site to see for yourself.

Chloromancer unkillable? Common.... Its very squishy . Its a support spec so if a chloro has a good group protecting him is going to be harder to kill. Soloable is VERY easy to kill.

Overall I like the changes. Only complaints I heard are about warrior rdps being nerfed.

You know that you can mix many specs right? I am sure of it. Try many combinations and find the game is not as unbalanced as it seems.

For example, people complaints about rogue. But rogues in rift are not the typicall ones. People forget they are rdps rogues like marksman, ranger (my main level 50) and healer rogues as well. They hit hard , very hard.

What I like most about rift´s pvp is that every class can kill another, you always get surprises in pvp. And now with the addittion of 4 new souls game will be funnier than ever.

Rift its not a perfect game but dont forget it is a PVE game with some pvp attached. 

you missed the entire point of the post .......this is not bashing its warning people to wait a couple of weeks until they get everything balanced out . You didnt pvp today you can tell already and if you are currently playing you can go read the myriad of posts on the Offical forums and class forums and see for yourself. Do a conquest with about 4 or 5 healers right now together or  a warfront with just 2 healers. I know this ive been running warfronts and conquests all night on my bard spec , i have yet to die all night .  Also go read the dev posts there , even they say they have to fix a ton of stuff and are asking for parser numbers in the class forums. Again people on the fence waiting for SL will be frustrated coming back right this second so warning them here is good , so they just do not leave frustrated with the bugs and balance issues when giving Trion a week or two to balance it all out is the best thing.