I know this isn't in the spirit of G4M3 W4RZZZZ!!!  But I am honestly happy that there are now two genuinely excellent themeparks on the market.

Before GW2, WoW was clearly the best...others were fun for a while, but none really held a candle to it.  Now, I feel like people have two equally awesome options, and that is great :).

Originally posted by Ausare
With GW2 you can leave and come back when you want......to an empty game because everyone is leaving and maybe one day will come back...you know when they are done with the next latest game.

Funny...our guild still has over 100 people on on any given week night and I still queue for WvWvW. Sounds totally empty to me.

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Posts in game forum that the game sucks, then becomes annoyed at fans of that game for defending it.

Idiot logic.

MoP is a good expansion, much better than cataclysm, GW2 is a good game. 

I play both, sometimes I also play neither, I never feel the need to announce my departure from either game on a public forum.

*chuckles*

Yeah don't go in to the kitchen if you can not take the heat.

Originally posted by cesmode8

Originally posted by Ausare

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Ausare
With GW2 you can leave and come back when you want......to an empty game because everyone is leaving and maybe one day will come back...you know when they are done with the next latest game.

Really, my server seems pretty stable after the 2 first weeks, lots of people online most of the time and it is not one of the topservers population wise. We were about 80-100 people who took down the dragon in Frostgorge yesterday.

Besides, you can just move to a server with better population for free otherwise. Adding cross realm zones and cross server dungeon /raid finders really isnt any better.

There are plenty of empty Wow servers and there it cost you 20 Euro for each character you want to move.

Have to say Wow servers seem to be doing fine.  When GW2 reach say 5 million subs in the west we will talk.

This is the kind of wow-fanboism that people love!  First, GW2 sold 2 million copies in the first week or two, forcing them to shut down sales of the game.  Their servers could not handle in influx of players.  Ironically, WoW was the last MMO that had to do this at launch.  I think that says something.  And no, I dont think Arenanet purposefully engineered such an infrastructure or purposefully shut down sales to make their game seem like its booming, especially since game sales is the #1 source of income for them right now, with there being no subscription.

Second, GW1 had 5million(or 7 mill, cant remember) players, a large amount of it in Europe and overseas.  Id say thats a fair competitor for the almighty WoW.  Even if the game garners 3 million sales total, that is immensely successful. 

And look for WoW subs to drop after Q1 2013 when the annual pass, and MoP hype dies down.  They'll come back to the sub-less GW2 :)

This post doesn't make sense. Anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players. In fact, I'd go so far as they were wishing for 3 or 4 million. They had 1M pre purch, and another in release sales, Sorry, they didn't shut down sales becuase of their overwhelming success and unpredictable numbers.  In fact, they didn't shut down sales at all. Only their own sales. The reason GW2 sales were shut down ONLY from ANET's own site, was because ANET needed to divert all of it's internal resourses to handle it's problematic launch and all the issues surrounding the 1st week. 

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

This post doesn't make sense. Anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players. In fact, I'd go so far as they were wishing for 3 or 4 million. They had 1M pre purch, and another in release sales, Sorry, they didn't shut down sales becuase of their overwhelming success and unpredictable numbers.  In fact, they didn't shut down sales at all. Only their own sales. The reason GW2 sales were shut down ONLY from ANET's own site, was because ANET needed to divert all of it's internal resourses to handle it's problematic launch and all the issues surrounding the 1st week. 

This post doesn't make any sense either. They were shut down only from ANet's own site because the physical copies had already been shipped around the world. What were they supposed to do? Attempt to force retailers to stop selling them?

If "anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players" then by your own logic ANet would have been prepared for at least that number of people playing the game in the first week of its existence and wouldn't have experienced the few issues that they did...

Originally posted by Lydon

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

This post doesn't make sense. Anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players. In fact, I'd go so far as they were wishing for 3 or 4 million. They had 1M pre purch, and another in release sales, Sorry, they didn't shut down sales becuase of their overwhelming success and unpredictable numbers.  In fact, they didn't shut down sales at all. Only their own sales. The reason GW2 sales were shut down ONLY from ANET's own site, was because ANET needed to divert all of it's internal resourses to handle it's problematic launch and all the issues surrounding the 1st week. 

This post doesn't make any sense either. They were shut down only from ANet's own site because the physical copies had already been shipped around the world. What were they supposed to do? Attempt to force retailers to stop selling them?

If "anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players" then by your own logic ANet would have been prepared for at least that number of people playing the game in the first week of its existence and wouldn't have experienced the few issues that they did...

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by Lydon

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

This post doesn't make sense. Anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players. In fact, I'd go so far as they were wishing for 3 or 4 million. They had 1M pre purch, and another in release sales, Sorry, they didn't shut down sales becuase of their overwhelming success and unpredictable numbers.  In fact, they didn't shut down sales at all. Only their own sales. The reason GW2 sales were shut down ONLY from ANET's own site, was because ANET needed to divert all of it's internal resourses to handle it's problematic launch and all the issues surrounding the 1st week. 

This post doesn't make any sense either. They were shut down only from ANet's own site because the physical copies had already been shipped around the world. What were they supposed to do? Attempt to force retailers to stop selling them?

If "anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players" then by your own logic ANet would have been prepared for at least that number of people playing the game in the first week of its existence and wouldn't have experienced the few issues that they did...

 

GW2 official site wasn't the only one selling digital copies. You could buy from other authorized sites too. So i really doubt that when Anet stopped selling GW2 it made a huge stall in sales for those few days.

Point in fact you could not purchase from other sites.  I tried purchasing a digi copy from Amazon when this was going on, just to see what was happening, and I couldnt.  It told me digi copies were temp out of stock.  You had to go to a store to get it.  I know, because a RL friend of mine tried going to guildwars 2 site, amazon, and best buy...couldn't get a copy online.

Only brick and morders had copies, if they had copies in stock.

No...the temp shutdown was to keep servers from filling up more than it could handle.  So many zones in overflow(into level 30 and 40) WvW queues out the eyeballs, etc.  True, there were and are lots of bugs, but what game at launch didnt have them?  Every game has it.  Every..game.  But the shutdown was not because of bugs, otherwise they would have shut them down again because of run of the mill problems that GW2 is currently experiencing(like everygame) with bots, exploits, gold selling etc.

Originally posted by cesmode8

As the title reads, the game hasnt changed one bit aside from a talent overhaul, which they do every expansion(get ready for another one in two years), increased level cap, new race and class(like they havent done this before), and a poor attempt at adding some subpar endgame systems such as scenarios(rift does this better) and pokemon. 

Unsubbed, heading back to GW2.  By far a superior game in most facets.

That's why MoP was the first WoW expansion I didnt even buy. I already knew for a fact that there's nothing new to go back to. After 15 minutes of play it's just exactly the same old, and after getting to max level you jump into the same old treadmill. I have lost my faith in Blizzard's ability to add anything actually new stuff in their games, except for the tweaks and apparently some minigames (which is awesome, but not enough to go back to).

Dont get me wrong though, I think WoW is an awesome game, one of the best mmorpgs, and certainly was the best back in the day. It's just when something refuses to evolve, it will get boring, and it will stay boring. It's not helping that everything is trivialized in the game and automatized (afterall it's a mmorpg and not some serverless mix-mess-community lobby MOBA).

I almost envy people who are still having fun in WoW, or who are new to the game, all the best for them :)

Originally posted by cesmode8

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by Lydon

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

This post doesn't make sense. Anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players. In fact, I'd go so far as they were wishing for 3 or 4 million. They had 1M pre purch, and another in release sales, Sorry, they didn't shut down sales becuase of their overwhelming success and unpredictable numbers.  In fact, they didn't shut down sales at all. Only their own sales. The reason GW2 sales were shut down ONLY from ANET's own site, was because ANET needed to divert all of it's internal resourses to handle it's problematic launch and all the issues surrounding the 1st week. 

This post doesn't make any sense either. They were shut down only from ANet's own site because the physical copies had already been shipped around the world. What were they supposed to do? Attempt to force retailers to stop selling them?

If "anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players" then by your own logic ANet would have been prepared for at least that number of people playing the game in the first week of its existence and wouldn't have experienced the few issues that they did...

 

GW2 official site wasn't the only one selling digital copies. You could buy from other authorized sites too. So i really doubt that when Anet stopped selling GW2 it made a huge stall in sales for those few days.

Point in fact you could not purchase from other sites.  I tried purchasing a digi copy from Amazon when this was going on, just to see what was happening, and I couldnt.  It told me digi copies were temp out of stock.  You had to go to a store to get it.  I know, because a RL friend of mine tried going to guildwars 2 site, amazon, and best buy...couldn't get a copy online.

Only brick and morders had copies, if they had copies in stock.

 

No...the temp shutdown was to keep servers from filling up more than it could handle.  So many zones in overflow(into level 30 and 40) WvW queues out the eyeballs, etc.  True, there were and are lots of bugs, but what game at launch didnt have them?  Every game has it.  Every..game.  But the shutdown was not because of bugs, otherwise they would have shut them down again because of run of the mill problems that GW2 is currently experiencing(like everygame) with bots, exploits, gold selling etc.

 

And yet i was able to buy my digital copy from DLGAMER during those days as there was no physical copy avilable close to where i live in morocco.

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by cesmode8

As the title reads, the game hasnt changed one bit aside from a talent overhaul, which they do every expansion(get ready for another one in two years), increased level cap, new race and class(like they havent done this before), and a poor attempt at adding some subpar endgame systems such as scenarios(rift does this better) and pokemon. 

Unsubbed, heading back to GW2.  By far a superior game in most facets.

 

That's why MoP was the first WoW expansion I didnt even buy. I already knew for a fact that there's nothing new to go back to. After 15 minutes of play it's just exactly the same old, and after getting to max level you jump into the same old treadmill. I have lost my faith in Blizzard's ability to add anything actually new stuff in their games, except for the tweaks and apparently some minigames (which is awesome, but not enough to go back to).

 

Dont get me wrong though, I think WoW is an awesome game, one of the best mmorpgs, and certainly was the best back in the day. It's just when something refuses to evolve, it will get boring, and it will stay boring. It's not helping that everything is trivialized in the game and automatized (afterall it's a mmorpg and not some serverless mix-mess-community lobby MOBA).

 

I almost envy people who are still having fun in WoW, or who are new to the game, all the best for them :)

To be honest, I sort of agree with every word you said, down to the last sentence.  I do envy them.  But, in my opinion, I see the game and the development of it for what it truely is:  Other MMOs come and go, but excel in one or two things.  Blizzard tries to duplicate this, if their outdated technology allows them to.  Sometimes they succeed, most of the time they fail.  Either way, they are always a few years behind the curve in terms of the hopping on the bandwagon of what the MMO community wants(if they ever listen at all...) and fail to be innovative.  In my opinion, their development minds say "We know better than you, and we'll see we listen to your feedback, but we really think XYZ".  Just read the forums.  People post many things about this and that, what works and doesnt.  They say its working as intended, they feel this way and that.  Take a dev like Trion.  They listen and pump out awsome endgame features, systems, and content.  If blizzard adopted that methodology, Id return in a second.  But they wont.  They are holier than though, thus their game remains static and in a glimmer of its former glory.  I look to greener pastures.  Right now its GW2.  With many hours of play time in already, and many to come, it is the game for me.  Once Im done with it, I am probably done with all MMOs until MAYBE titan.  Thats a big maybe.

Originally posted by cesmode8

As the title reads, the game hasnt changed one bit aside from a talent overhaul, which they do every expansion(get ready for another one in two years), increased level cap, new race and class(like they havent done this before), and a poor attempt at adding some subpar endgame systems such as scenarios(rift does this better) and pokemon. 

Unsubbed, heading back to GW2.  By far a superior game in most facets.

 

 

Were you actively playing WoW when GW2 was released?

Did you have negative feelings about WoW prior to this expansion?

How much time have you put into WoW prior to this expansion?

Did you already have a low opinion of Blizzard's expansion formula?

My contention is:

If, prior to Pandaria, you already were burnt out on WoW, or tired of its mechanics or graphics....in essence, if prior to Pandaria you already had a low opinion of the game - why would you think Pandaria might change all that? It is still WoW, a game which you new prior whether you liked or disliked. This wasn't 'remaking' the game for those who didn't like it, it was 'expanding' the game for people who DO like it.

I tend to discount "Reviews" of expansions of a game you already dislike. They seem to be pre-loaded with a negative opinion.

I don't believe I've ever seen someone who hated a game, the game 'expands' that hated game, and all of a sudden the game is great. If you take a turd and increase its size by 20%, it doesn't become chocolate cake. But it seems like that's what some people 'returning' to WoW for this expansion think.

For those that like WoW - this is taking a piece of chocolate cake and making it 20% bigger.

And for those that like WoW, but are leary of change and obsessively attached to virtual achievements, some of them, took a bite of chocolate cake and tasted a turd.

In my opinion, we learn the most about an expansion from those who share our own opinion, for they will highlight the aspects we have in common. You can also learn a lot from someone who liked the game but hates the changes, for they can point out clearer than others what exactly is different.

But we learn virtually notihing from someone who already hated a game and then write a review of an expansion as if they are surprised that they still hate the game or as if they expected a different game from what they played before.

Expansion 'expand' an existing game. They do not change it into a different one.

Originally posted by cinos

Yay for game hopping! :D

Play what you like, the days of sticking to one game only are long past.

I agree with this.  Let's stop the "this game is better than this game" hyperbole arguments and just enjoy whatever game you want at any given time.  Plenty out there to do that with and plenty more in the pipeline.  I know I'm going to change my viewpoint as I am taking a break from GW2 and am enjoying WoW:MoP.  Next week, I'll hop back into Lotro for the Rohan expansion and enjoy that and eventually hop back to GW2 to enjoy the Holiday patch and so on and so forth with a handful of other MMOs. 

If anything, the only issue I have with trying to hop is paying a sub fee for a few of the games just to enjoy a week or 2 of new content.  I much prefer Lotro's hybrid system or GW2s buy to play.   Hopefully TSW goes hybrid soon.

Originally posted by cesmode8

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by cesmode8

As the title reads, the game hasnt changed one bit aside from a talent overhaul, which they do every expansion(get ready for another one in two years), increased level cap, new race and class(like they havent done this before), and a poor attempt at adding some subpar endgame systems such as scenarios(rift does this better) and pokemon. 

Unsubbed, heading back to GW2.  By far a superior game in most facets.

 

That's why MoP was the first WoW expansion I didnt even buy. I already knew for a fact that there's nothing new to go back to. After 15 minutes of play it's just exactly the same old, and after getting to max level you jump into the same old treadmill. I have lost my faith in Blizzard's ability to add anything actually new stuff in their games, except for the tweaks and apparently some minigames (which is awesome, but not enough to go back to).

 

Dont get me wrong though, I think WoW is an awesome game, one of the best mmorpgs, and certainly was the best back in the day. It's just when something refuses to evolve, it will get boring, and it will stay boring. It's not helping that everything is trivialized in the game and automatized (afterall it's a mmorpg and not some serverless mix-mess-community lobby MOBA).

 

I almost envy people who are still having fun in WoW, or who are new to the game, all the best for them :)

To be honest, I sort of agree with every word you said, down to the last sentence.  I do envy them.  But, in my opinion, I see the game and the development of it for what it truely is:  Other MMOs come and go, but excel in one or two things.  Blizzard tries to duplicate this, if their outdated technology allows them to.  Sometimes they succeed, most of the time they fail.  Either way, they are always a few years behind the curve in terms of the hopping on the bandwagon of what the MMO community wants(if they ever listen at all...) and fail to be innovative.  In my opinion, their development minds say "We know better than you, and we'll see we listen to your feedback, but we really think XYZ".  Just read the forums.  People post many things about this and that, what works and doesnt.  They say its working as intended, they feel this way and that.  Take a dev like Trion.  They listen and pump out awsome endgame features, systems, and content.  If blizzard adopted that methodology, Id return in a second.  But they wont.  They are holier than though, thus their game remains static and in a glimmer of its former glory.  I look to greener pastures.  Right now its GW2.  With many hours of play time in already, and many to come, it is the game for me.  Once Im done with it, I am probably done with all MMOs until MAYBE titan.  Thats a big maybe.

 

Blizzard has all the right to be 'holier than thou'. They have 9+ million players and now 10+ after MOP. For so many years it stayed at 11 and 12 million mark.

So yes a company that is capable of keeping so many people playing for such a long time does have all the right to tell you that 'they know better'. It might hurt your ego but they are right. WOW hasbeen  wrecking every other MMO for years holding number one spot. I don't see the reason why they should bend to every demand of players. And not that they don't listen. A lot of changes have been amde to WOW in accordance with what majority wanted.

WOW is not some failed MMO where you can claim that Blizzard doesn't know what it is doing.

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by cinos

Yay for game hopping! :D

Play what you like, the days of sticking to one game only are long past.

I agree with this.  Let's stop the "this game is better than this game" hyperbole arguments and just enjoy whatever game you want at any given time.  Plenty out there to do that with and plenty more in the pipeline.  I know I'm going to change my viewpoint as I am taking a break from GW2 and am enjoying WoW:MoP.  Next week, I'll hop back into Lotro for the Rohan expansion and enjoy that and eventually hop back to GW2 to enjoy the Holiday patch and so on and so forth with a handful of other MMOs. 

If anything, the only issue I have with trying to hop is paying a sub fee for a few of the games just to enjoy a week or 2 of new content.  I much prefer Lotro's hybrid system or GW2s buy to play.   Hopefully TSW goes hybrid soon.

Its Vigo the carpathian again!

Oh look, another fresh, new topic posted on MMORPG.com

Originally posted by cesmode8

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by Lydon

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

This post doesn't make sense. Anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players. In fact, I'd go so far as they were wishing for 3 or 4 million. They had 1M pre purch, and another in release sales, Sorry, they didn't shut down sales becuase of their overwhelming success and unpredictable numbers.  In fact, they didn't shut down sales at all. Only their own sales. The reason GW2 sales were shut down ONLY from ANET's own site, was because ANET needed to divert all of it's internal resourses to handle it's problematic launch and all the issues surrounding the 1st week. 

This post doesn't make any sense either. They were shut down only from ANet's own site because the physical copies had already been shipped around the world. What were they supposed to do? Attempt to force retailers to stop selling them?

If "anyone could reasonably assume GW2 was prepared for 2M players" then by your own logic ANet would have been prepared for at least that number of people playing the game in the first week of its existence and wouldn't have experienced the few issues that they did...

 

GW2 official site wasn't the only one selling digital copies. You could buy from other authorized sites too. So i really doubt that when Anet stopped selling GW2 it made a huge stall in sales for those few days.

Point in fact you could not purchase from other sites.  I tried purchasing a digi copy from Amazon when this was going on, just to see what was happening, and I couldnt.  It told me digi copies were temp out of stock.  You had to go to a store to get it.  I know, because a RL friend of mine tried going to guildwars 2 site, amazon, and best buy...couldn't get a copy online.

Only brick and morders had copies, if they had copies in stock.

 

No...the temp shutdown was to keep servers from filling up more than it could handle.  So many zones in overflow(into level 30 and 40) WvW queues out the eyeballs, etc.  True, there were and are lots of bugs, but what game at launch didnt have them?  Every game has it.  Every..game.  But the shutdown was not because of bugs, otherwise they would have shut them down again because of run of the mill problems that GW2 is currently experiencing(like everygame) with bots, exploits, gold selling etc.

 

Not true. I Pre Purhcased. I had a friend who bought post release, he couldn't get it direct since they stopped selling so he went to Amazon and bought it there. Amazon didn't stop selling GW2.

I am certain, I could get a copy of his digital reciept from Amazon if I asked him for it. But I won't because I know he was away on business during the initial weekend and bought when he got back. Since we were in the game, I kinda believe him. 

Also, selling out of digital copies, (not sure how that is possible) is a different story than shutting off sales.

Aside from that, can you show soem evidence of why you say ANET discontinued it's sales?

Originally posted by halflife25 

Blizzard has all the right to be 'holier than thou'. They have 9+ million players and now 10+ after MOP. For so many years it stayed at 11 and 12 million mark.

So yes a company that is capable of keeping so many people playing for such a long time does have all the right to tell you that 'they know better'. It might hurt your ego but they are right. WOW hasbeen  wrecking every other MMO for years holding number one spot. I don't see the reason why they should bend to every demand of players. And not that they don't listen. A lot of changes have been amde to WOW in accordance with what majority wanted.

WOW is not some failed MMO where you can claim that Blizzard doesn't know what it is doing.

I would never use that kind of reasoning

Everquest was the #1 Westerm mmo for 5 years -  from 1999 thru 2004

more subs does not mean "they know better"

many retail mmos released during that 5 year timespan but none had the success of EQ

until Blizzard grabbed a bigger audience

Anarchy Online

Asherons Call

City of Heroes

Dark Age of Camelot 

Earth & Beyond

Eve Online

Final Fantasy XI

Horizons (now called Isitaria)

Lineage II

Shadowbane

Star Wars Galaxies