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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Martin Bruusgaard interview, looks back at TSW

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75 posts found
  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2674

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

10/08/12 9:22:19 PM#41
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Ramonski7

I don't know about anyone else but my experience with TSW was as follows:

 

At the beginning I was enjoying the journey, leveling, figuring out investigations, allocating skill points and running non-elite dungeons. Joined a cabal with the hopes of starting some elite runs to gear up for the next areas. Cabal wasn't too helpful so I went the pug route and did NOT like what I was seeing:

LFM elite blah blah blah 2.3k AR required and must know run.

LFM elite blah blah blah speed runs if AR is not 2.5+ do NOT send tell.

LFM elite blah blah blah farming runs etc, etc ,etc

 

Now I'm no slouch when it comes to playing mmos. I've done the PvPing, raiding and gear grinds with the best of them. Key words there are: I've done. I have no desire to head down that path again and the air of elitism seemed to be quite high in such a short time. Yes I enjoy a challenge just as much as the next guy, but my sleepless nights to stay ahead of the curve are behind me. All I wanted was a mmo with a different vibe that I could sit in my office with, don my headphones, grab a cold one and play without trying to meet the expectations of the mountain dew sucking, 3 monitor havin, dps meter checkin crowd that I once belonged to. And on that note TSW failed me...

Start your own groups. No one was forcing you to join the groups you mentioned. They have no impact on your gameplay unless you let it. I see so many people with complaints like yours and the funny thing is you all could form your own group but you are all sitting around waiting for someone else to make the effort to get a group going.

I started many groups, had builds/gear for dps/healing and did many, many PvP runs as well. This is not the problem. I simply identified and made a personal choice that I did not want to be in an environment that promotes something that I no longer adhere too. Simple really. It had nothing to do with steping up to the plate and making my own groups. But two things you said that strike me:

No one is forcing me...

That includes ultimately not playing the game if I so desire.

 

I see so many people with complaints like yours...

I only needed to see one complaint to come to the realization TSW was not for me: my own.

 


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

10/08/12 9:31:49 PM#42
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Ramonski7

I don't know about anyone else but my experience with TSW was as follows:

 

At the beginning I was enjoying the journey, leveling, figuring out investigations, allocating skill points and running non-elite dungeons. Joined a cabal with the hopes of starting some elite runs to gear up for the next areas. Cabal wasn't too helpful so I went the pug route and did NOT like what I was seeing:

LFM elite blah blah blah 2.3k AR required and must know run.

LFM elite blah blah blah speed runs if AR is not 2.5+ do NOT send tell.

LFM elite blah blah blah farming runs etc, etc ,etc

 

Now I'm no slouch when it comes to playing mmos. I've done the PvPing, raiding and gear grinds with the best of them. Key words there are: I've done. I have no desire to head down that path again and the air of elitism seemed to be quite high in such a short time. Yes I enjoy a challenge just as much as the next guy, but my sleepless nights to stay ahead of the curve are behind me. All I wanted was a mmo with a different vibe that I could sit in my office with, don my headphones, grab a cold one and play without trying to meet the expectations of the mountain dew sucking, 3 monitor havin, dps meter checkin crowd that I once belonged to. And on that note TSW failed me...

Start your own groups. No one was forcing you to join the groups you mentioned. They have no impact on your gameplay unless you let it. I see so many people with complaints like yours and the funny thing is you all could form your own group but you are all sitting around waiting for someone else to make the effort to get a group going.

I started many groups, had builds/gear for dps/healing and did many, many PvP runs as well. This is not the problem. I simply identified and made a personal choice that I did not want to be in an environment that promotes something that I no longer adhere too. Simple really. It had nothing to do with steping up to the plate and making my own groups. But two things you said that strike me:

No one is forcing me...

That includes ultimately not playing the game if I so desire.

 

I see so many people with complaints like yours...

I only needed to see one complaint to come to the realization TSW was not for me: my own.

 

simply identified and made a personal choice that I did not want to be in an environment that promotes something that I no longer adhere too.

 

I guess you stopped playing MMOs then.

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2674

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

10/08/12 9:33:48 PM#43
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Ramonski7

I don't know about anyone else but my experience with TSW was as follows:

 

At the beginning I was enjoying the journey, leveling, figuring out investigations, allocating skill points and running non-elite dungeons. Joined a cabal with the hopes of starting some elite runs to gear up for the next areas. Cabal wasn't too helpful so I went the pug route and did NOT like what I was seeing:

LFM elite blah blah blah 2.3k AR required and must know run.

LFM elite blah blah blah speed runs if AR is not 2.5+ do NOT send tell.

LFM elite blah blah blah farming runs etc, etc ,etc

 

Now I'm no slouch when it comes to playing mmos. I've done the PvPing, raiding and gear grinds with the best of them. Key words there are: I've done. I have no desire to head down that path again and the air of elitism seemed to be quite high in such a short time. Yes I enjoy a challenge just as much as the next guy, but my sleepless nights to stay ahead of the curve are behind me. All I wanted was a mmo with a different vibe that I could sit in my office with, don my headphones, grab a cold one and play without trying to meet the expectations of the mountain dew sucking, 3 monitor havin, dps meter checkin crowd that I once belonged to. And on that note TSW failed me...

Start your own groups. No one was forcing you to join the groups you mentioned. They have no impact on your gameplay unless you let it. I see so many people with complaints like yours and the funny thing is you all could form your own group but you are all sitting around waiting for someone else to make the effort to get a group going.

I started many groups, had builds/gear for dps/healing and did many, many PvP runs as well. This is not the problem. I simply identified and made a personal choice that I did not want to be in an environment that promotes something that I no longer adhere too. Simple really. It had nothing to do with steping up to the plate and making my own groups. But two things you said that strike me:

No one is forcing me...

That includes ultimately not playing the game if I so desire.

 

I see so many people with complaints like yours...

I only needed to see one complaint to come to the realization TSW was not for me: my own.

 

simply identified and made a personal choice that I did not want to be in an environment that promotes something that I no longer adhere too.

 

I guess you stopped playing MMOs then.

If that's what you choose to believe, who am I to stop you?


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Arakazi

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 825

10/08/12 10:19:36 PM#44
I just finnished playing for an hour and there is something begining to annoy me. Combat. I'm sick of it. At first I was so caught up in the lore and the world I didn't pay too much attention to it but now I'm begining to hate it. You only have seven keys to press so there is always this lack of variety in combat. I'm one of these guys that play with combat, toying with mobs with dots and CC. I can't play with the combat here, it's all business. Not only that it also feels akward, repetative and slow paced. I can't seem to put my finger on why it feels akward, but it's like I'm fighting left handed, like my hits aren't connecting. Other minor annoyances like the lack of swimming and the fact that you don't seem to take any dmg if you fall from no matter what height. Plus the lack of things to interact with in the environment is also getting to me. You can't sit on a chair, operate a turretopen or close a door, again it's all business and no fun,

  User Deleted
10/08/12 10:25:10 PM#45
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I disagree with the "not commercial enough", which is basicly code speak for "not wow clone enough"

The leveling aspect of tsw was good, and that was different.

Where tsw goes wrong is the endgame, where it really is a "world of cthulhucraft"

The other question that needs to be asked is what did funcom get out of their deal with ea, weren't ea Involved to help market the game?

Exactly 100% right.  If TSW had a non WoW endgame we would be singing its priases from here till the cow comes home.  Going from its amazing leveling up journey and doing a 180 at endgame and becoming a stale/bland/boring/generic/atrocious/horrible vertical gear progression MMO without the raiding.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

 
OP  10/08/12 10:42:41 PM#46
Originally posted by Draron
Originally posted by Kuppa

We know that at least one million knew about the game and from that a big percentage actually liked it. They didn't get an absurd number of players because they didn't market the game well, but they players who's attention they did caught was in vain because the game was released in a horrible time frame and you had to pay more for it then at least one of the games that was coming out(GW2).

I still believe it was mainly the business model, but with time all other variables disappear and I stil think they will have a hard time selling the game. Not because its "hard" or "different" but because they require a sub.

You can't count a majority of beta players that like the game = instant purchases, as most are just there for the free ride IMO. I'd like to see some data on usual beta participants to purchases. The fact GW2 and MoP was around the corner didn't help things. That and the lack of advertising of what the actual game WAS, not the setting, was the biggest issues IMO.

What you are saying is basically speculation. Its way more probable that if you say you like the game while in a beta you are looking foward to buy it, even if not the amount of people who didn't purchase it was way to high.


  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

10/09/12 12:07:46 AM#47
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Draron
Originally posted by Kuppa

We know that at least one million knew about the game and from that a big percentage actually liked it. They didn't get an absurd number of players because they didn't market the game well, but they players who's attention they did caught was in vain because the game was released in a horrible time frame and you had to pay more for it then at least one of the games that was coming out(GW2).

I still believe it was mainly the business model, but with time all other variables disappear and I stil think they will have a hard time selling the game. Not because its "hard" or "different" but because they require a sub.

You can't count a majority of beta players that like the game = instant purchases, as most are just there for the free ride IMO. I'd like to see some data on usual beta participants to purchases. The fact GW2 and MoP was around the corner didn't help things. That and the lack of advertising of what the actual game WAS, not the setting, was the biggest issues IMO.

What you are saying is basically speculation. Its way more probable that if you say you like the game while in a beta you are looking foward to buy it, even if not the amount of people who didn't purchase it was way to high.

Look at the 2 polls in the GW2 forums where 70% of the people who responded haven't spent any money other than the box price. Do you really think if GW2 had a sub that they would pay? I don't think so.

  Draron

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/11
Posts: 1009

10/09/12 2:01:26 AM#48
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Draron
Originally posted by Kuppa

We know that at least one million knew about the game and from that a big percentage actually liked it. They didn't get an absurd number of players because they didn't market the game well, but they players who's attention they did caught was in vain because the game was released in a horrible time frame and you had to pay more for it then at least one of the games that was coming out(GW2).

I still believe it was mainly the business model, but with time all other variables disappear and I stil think they will have a hard time selling the game. Not because its "hard" or "different" but because they require a sub.

You can't count a majority of beta players that like the game = instant purchases, as most are just there for the free ride IMO. I'd like to see some data on usual beta participants to purchases. The fact GW2 and MoP was around the corner didn't help things. That and the lack of advertising of what the actual game WAS, not the setting, was the biggest issues IMO.

What you are saying is basically speculation. Its way more probable that if you say you like the game while in a beta you are looking foward to buy it, even if not the amount of people who didn't purchase it was way to high.

Notice how I said IMO and wanted facts to see if it's the case. No need to clarify it's speculation. 

There's a difference of thinking a game is great and shelling out the money for the game. I beta tested Rift and thought the game was solid, but I didn't buy it at launch. And for what it's worth, the game gets reviews that range from good to great. I'm sticking by why I feel the game didn't sell good.

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

10/09/12 4:42:38 AM#49

They assumed that beta numbers would reflect on the overall standing of the game.   Anybody will play a beta, it does not mean they will buy the game.   When you use beta's as marketing tools rather than what they were specifically designed to do, then feedback from such events is dubious.

 

Traditional levels would of sat better with people.  At least Bruusgaard can see this, especially as the traditional levels are just masked . In other words, no real innovation just doing the same thing a different way.  Only confuses people, because when they relaise the innovation isn't there they feel cheated.  They are more at ease with what they know.  Wrong time to reinvent the wheel with a new IP.

 

Shop - no way on this earth should they have had a shop if they were going to be sub based.  That just right out the gate alieantes more people than you can imagine.   People that would have given TSW a go will rule it out based on this one bad decision alone.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

10/09/12 5:02:34 AM#50
Originally posted by TalulaRose

Look at the 2 polls in the GW2 forums where 70% of the people who responded haven't spent any money other than the box price. Do you really think if GW2 had a sub that they would pay? I don't think so.

 

Wasn't there a poll here a bit ago, where the overwhelming majority voted that they wouldn't play TSW even if it were free?  

 

I think the fact of the matter is that lots of people tried it during beta, and simply didn't like it.  Not enough to buy it, not enough to care what payment model it used, not even enough to bother hating on it or voting it down on metacritic   After the NDA lifted, and the beta opened, it became pretty obvious that most people just weren't interested in it, in any way, shape, or form.

 

I think Bruusgaard is delusional to think the beta feedback was predominantly positive, although the mods did their best to make it look that way on the forums.  Turns out, maybe they should have listened to the "trolls" a bit more, instead of just deleting their threads and chasing them away.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 773

10/09/12 7:49:38 AM#51

as usual some peoples who never played &don't know what is TSW concept, complain about  game

 

 

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  cinos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/05
Posts: 975

10/09/12 8:03:37 AM#52

I did play the game during beta, but didn't get it in the end for several reasons.

1) I found myself getting bored quite quickly.

2) The chosen business model rubbed me the wrong way. Triple dip and increased prices in the UK for no real reason other than they thought the game was worth more than other sub based games. Yes they said that it was to keep inline with exchange rates but c'mon, you don't muck about with an estabished price point unless if you think your product is the dogs bollocks and can get away with it.

3) No faith in Funcom.

In that order. I imagine that most would just go to 2 or 3 and stop there, but I atleast did try it. :p

  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

10/09/12 8:36:51 AM#53

Commercial? He is suggesting to make the game more "commercial"?

He could as well have said "more stupified" to get it some more mass appeal.

Boy I´m happy that this game doesn´t let people play a cartoon puppy in little fantasy disney land and forcing a LVL number on my character, so the less creative people needing their lvl handholding feel guided enough.

Perhaps a little "hint" button if you are too simple minded to solve investigation mission? LOL.

Or making a picture book version of the deep lore?

Please no. Keep the game like it is, I don´t care about a million gw2wow players in this game. In fact, please continue to do everything to keep them out.  Game is profitable and the fanbase is now solid and growing, prevent a "NGE"  AT ALL POSSIBLE COST.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/09/12 8:52:35 AM#54
Yaka. Tsws biggest problem is that it is "commercial" once you hit end game.

If we take commercial to mean "wow clone".

Tsw has fun leveling,o.ce you done that though its either grind dungeons over and over for gear, or go and "pvp" for almost as good gear.

Unfortunately funcom bottled it and didn't see the vision the entire way through. You only have to look at the things that got cut.

1 agartha as an end game pvp area and source of crafting materials, with facilities for Cabals to own and maintain their own anima mines
2 crafted goods as the top goods
3 dungeons supplying crafting mats not "phatlewt"
4 no raids
5 no levels, instead play anywhere, go straight to transylvania after Tokyo if you like. (weapon and talisman skill points were a recent addition making the game more linear and having sort of levels)
6 cabal housing and cabal progression system
7 limited to single character uo style

Basicly it had a bit more lean towards sandbox and pvp.

But they bottled it and went for a more wow style endgame. Tsw would have benefited greatly from a different style of endgame (much as gw2 has), mmo devs overestimate the hardcore pve progression playerbase, and members of that base already have 2 games that do that very well,wow & rift plus hundreds of also rand.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/09/12 8:55:37 AM#55
Bottled it is too strong, could be
A) pressure from ea
B) pressure from the "eq was the best game ever, wow gives free epix to scrubs" crowd, who were ALL OVER tsw beta for some reason.
  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

 
OP  10/09/12 9:33:21 AM#56
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Commercial? He is suggesting to make the game more "commercial"?

He could as well have said "more stupified" to get it some more mass appeal.

Boy I´m happy that this game doesn´t let people play a cartoon puppy in little fantasy disney land and forcing a LVL number on my character, so the less creative people needing their lvl handholding feel guided enough.

Perhaps a little "hint" button if you are too simple minded to solve investigation mission? LOL.

Or making a picture book version of the deep lore?

Please no. Keep the game like it is, I don´t care about a million gw2wow players in this game. In fact, please continue to do everything to keep them out.  Game is profitable and the fanbase is now solid and growing, prevent a "NGE"  AT ALL POSSIBLE COST.

As a publicly traded company they have an obligation to their shareholders, I doubt they will keep it small and not look to grow profits.


  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

10/09/12 10:00:21 AM#57
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Commercial? He is suggesting to make the game more "commercial"?

He could as well have said "more stupified" to get it some more mass appeal.

Boy I´m happy that this game doesn´t let people play a cartoon puppy in little fantasy disney land and forcing a LVL number on my character, so the less creative people needing their lvl handholding feel guided enough.

Perhaps a little "hint" button if you are too simple minded to solve investigation mission? LOL.

Or making a picture book version of the deep lore?

Please no. Keep the game like it is, I don´t care about a million gw2wow players in this game. In fact, please continue to do everything to keep them out.  Game is profitable and the fanbase is now solid and growing, prevent a "NGE"  AT ALL POSSIBLE COST.

Companies must love you.

"No, you don't need more paying customers, because you have me. The rest just suck and won't contribute anything useful. You only need me and my like why would you need more money anyway."

  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 603

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

10/09/12 10:18:51 AM#58
Originally posted by Vhaln
Originally posted by TalulaRose

Look at the 2 polls in the GW2 forums where 70% of the people who responded haven't spent any money other than the box price. Do you really think if GW2 had a sub that they would pay? I don't think so.

 

Wasn't there a poll here a bit ago, where the overwhelming majority voted that they wouldn't play TSW even if it were free?  

 

I think the fact of the matter is that lots of people tried it during beta, and simply didn't like it.  Not enough to buy it, not enough to care what payment model it used, not even enough to bother hating on it or voting it down on metacritic   After the NDA lifted, and the beta opened, it became pretty obvious that most people just weren't interested in it, in any way, shape, or form.

 

I think Bruusgaard is delusional to think the beta feedback was predominantly positive, although the mods did their best to make it look that way on the forums.  Turns out, maybe they should have listened to the "trolls" a bit more, instead of just deleting their threads and chasing them away.

Agreed, I get the impression he's just spinning it a certain way to not adress the idea that they made something, most interested players, simply played  in beta and were ambivelent towards. 

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  Jaedor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 785

10/09/12 10:44:29 AM#59

IMO, the biggest mistake Funcom made was in letting a million people into the betas to see unfinished work.


Yes, you can get past the terribad character creation if you don't look at your toon. But amid all the new and cool features of TSW, the clunky animations and boring combat (the top three complaints) made for a game that a million players could play for a month or more for free. It's no wonder that only 1/5th of them purchased it.


Many of the early reviews were obviously from folks who played in earlier beta builds. And their lousy reviews helped turn off possible new players. But a lot of the early build issues were fixed or greatly improved in the last week of beta, and if you weren't there, you wouldn't know that.

  GR3NDEL

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/12
Posts: 103

10/09/12 11:01:15 AM#60
Originally posted by Jaedor

IMO, the biggest mistake Funcom made was in letting a million people into the betas to see unfinished work.


Yes, you can get past the terribad character creation if you don't look at your toon. But amid all the new and cool features of TSW, the clunky animations and boring combat (the top three complaints) made for a game that a million players could play for a month or more for free. It's no wonder that only 1/5th of them purchased it.


Many of the early reviews were obviously from folks who played in earlier beta builds. And their lousy reviews helped turn off possible new players. But a lot of the early build issues were fixed or greatly improved in the last week of beta, and if you weren't there, you wouldn't know that.

Agreed.  Personally, I've been somewhat taken aback at the number of 'I played in BETA and it sucked!  ...well, no I haven't played it since then but it sucks!' posts I've seen.

Not only that, but Ragnar, John & Co. have continued to work on bugs, exploits and issues with each Issue release - something that gets ignored far too often.

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