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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Martin Bruusgaard interview, looks back at TSW

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75 posts found
  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7324

10/08/12 5:02:48 PM#21
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by bcbully

Over and over he said he thinks the game should have been more comercial lol.

 

He likes the way that it is, but in order to get the sheep eer masses it needed to be watered down. He also said marketing.

 

Well I happy the didn't go the comercial route, but I wish the had the money to market.

Do you think that theory lives up though? Of the players in beta he thinks that at least 80% said they liked it. We know that not even anything close to that bought the game. I doubt the problem is that it needed to be more "commercial", what else would cause someone to say "yes, I like your game" and then not buy it? the price.

 

BTW I understand that still they had a pretty crappy marketing campaing and could have interested much more than 1M players. But they could at least have a bigger base if they had changed their business model IMO.

I hear you kupp.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  jayfeeler69

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/12
Posts: 129

10/08/12 5:44:06 PM#22

Price was only a small issue. The issues as I see it are these.

- Story driven mmo. Too many feel burnt on the last story driven mmo TOR. A straight puzzle mmo was never going to fly (look at Myst: Uru Live lasted only two months). There is no reason to level an alt or even replay anything.

 

- Lackluster boring combat. I reall y don't need to extrapolate other than most mmos do way better than this.

 

- Lack of innovation where it counts. There really wasnt nothing innovative about TSW despite devs saying it was. The skill wheel is nothing more than a round skill tree. Modern day settings and horror in mmos have been done before. Hell even puzzle quests are not new (ie Myst or even look at Rift)

 

- Endgame that complete rewrites what the game was until you got there. Classless system? Only until endgame where you have to roll a specific class no ifs, ands, or buts.

 

- Endgame is nothing more than a gear ladder grind just like any other mmo but done far worse.

 

- Crafting is useless, easily the most worthless crafting system since CO

 

- Pvp is absolutely a joke

 

 

I think all of these reasons are why the game is empty and dying off

 

 

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

10/08/12 5:45:21 PM#23
He thinks it didn't do well because it wasn't enough of a WoW clone?  Really? 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  jayfeeler69

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/12
Posts: 129

10/08/12 5:46:14 PM#24
Originally posted by Vhaln
He thinks it didn't do well because it wasn't enough of a WoW clone?  Really? 

Wow clones generally do well look at rift

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

10/08/12 5:47:18 PM#25
Originally posted by jayfeeler69
Originally posted by Vhaln
He thinks it didn't do well because it wasn't enough of a WoW clone?  Really? 

Wow clones generally do well look at rift

LOL 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Kenze

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/07
Posts: 1235

10/08/12 5:54:43 PM#26
you surround yourself with yes-man, brown noser fanbois during beta and theyll tell you whatever you want to hear. If you base ANYTHING off feedback from such people then you have no one to blame but yourself. I remember SOE making the same mistake by hiring and listening to "focus groups" about SWG.

Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
—Lao-Tze

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

10/08/12 6:14:02 PM#27
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by tyfon

The game is very diffrent with it's deck approach to skills and excelent quests, player spawned world bosses, engaging dungeons etc. You have to use your grey matter, and this might put some people off. However, I think the main problem was timing and lack of advertising/hype. They did the latter on purpose as to not repeat conan. Unfortunally they took it too far.

My wife and me are enjoying the game immensly and have really only had a two week exodus to gw2 before the shallowness of that game came forth and got really boring.

They have done something about it though, the game was on sale on steam this weekend and the noob areas are now packed with new players.

The business model is fine. I have no problem paying €15 a month for a game with proper support (with ingame gm's), frequent content updates and to not be reminded of a cash shop every time you open the inventory or bank.

 

I've heard this all too often in these forums. But if that is the case how do you explain that they had one million beta subscribers and he says they had a very hight percentage of people who said they liked the game, the devs were happy with what they were seeing, and then no show when the game goes life.

That isn't because the game is "different" or because not enough people knew about it. People didn't want to take the plunge, I believe because of other titles or what I think is the biggest culprit their business model. Not sure how else to explain how most of the people that said they liked the game during beta would not buy it...

Easy, there are alot of people playing MMOs who feel they should not have to pay anything but expect a top quality project.

  Draron

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/11
Posts: 1009

10/08/12 8:07:22 PM#28
Originally posted by Kuppa

We know that at least one million knew about the game and from that a big percentage actually liked it. They didn't get an absurd number of players because they didn't market the game well, but they players who's attention they did caught was in vain because the game was released in a horrible time frame and you had to pay more for it then at least one of the games that was coming out(GW2).

I still believe it was mainly the business model, but with time all other variables disappear and I stil think they will have a hard time selling the game. Not because its "hard" or "different" but because they require a sub.

You can't count a majority of beta players that like the game = instant purchases, as most are just there for the free ride IMO. I'd like to see some data on usual beta participants to purchases. The fact GW2 and MoP was around the corner didn't help things. That and the lack of advertising of what the actual game WAS, not the setting, was the biggest issues IMO.

  L0C0Man

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/09
Posts: 924

10/08/12 8:18:07 PM#29
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Omnifish
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by bcbully

Over and over he said he thinks the game should have been more comercial lol.

 

He likes the way that it is, but in order to get the sheep eer masses it needed to be watered down. He also said marketing.

 

Well I happy the didn't go the comercial route, but I wish the had the money to market.

Do you think that theory lives up though? Of the players in beta he thinks that at least 80% said they liked it. We know that not even anything close to that bought the game. I doubt the problem is that it needed to be more "commercial", what else would cause someone to say "yes, I like your game" and then not buy it? the price.

 

BTW I understand that still they had a pretty crappy marketing campaing and could have interested much more than 1M players. But they could at least have a bigger base if they had changed their business model IMO.

1million people in a beta could be explained as people just wanting to beta test a game.  But really that's a lot of people to market the game to and they didn't manage to translate that into sales. Something was wrong with their approach, it was a different sort of game, but I don't believe the differences were, 'good enough', for most people to put money down for.

Ulitmately that's Fun.com's fault.

 

He says in the article they were actually very exited with how many people in beta were saying they liked the game via surveys. Ultimately something else besides the quality of the game drove them to not buy it. The only thing I can come up with is what happened to me, the price.

This was a big one, I think. GW2 was coming out a couple of months after TSW, and the pre-purchases for it had started for a while when the TSW beta started, so I bet lots of people trying TSW had already purchased GW2, and didn't see the point of buying it to play for a couple of months only.

I was actually not going to buy it even if I was in beta mainly because I didn't have enough money left (I can only spend $400 a year online, had already spent most of it) but my wife got it for me.

What can men do against such reckless hate?

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2700

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

10/08/12 8:29:33 PM#30

I don't know about anyone else but my experience with TSW was as follows:

 

At the beginning I was enjoying the journey, leveling, figuring out investigations, allocating skill points and running non-elite dungeons. Joined a cabal with the hopes of starting some elite runs to gear up for the next areas. Cabal wasn't too helpful so I went the pug route and did NOT like what I was seeing:

LFM elite blah blah blah 2.3k AR required and must know run.

LFM elite blah blah blah speed runs if AR is not 2.5+ do NOT send tell.

LFM elite blah blah blah farming runs etc, etc ,etc

 

Now I'm no slouch when it comes to playing mmos. I've done the PvPing, raiding and gear grinds with the best of them. Key words there are: I've done. I have no desire to head down that path again and the air of elitism seemed to be quite high in such a short time. Yes I enjoy a challenge just as much as the next guy, but my sleepless nights to stay ahead of the curve are behind me. All I wanted was a mmo with a different vibe that I could sit in my office with, don my headphones, grab a cold one and play without trying to meet the expectations of the mountain dew sucking, 3 monitor havin, dps meter checkin crowd that I once belonged to. And on that note TSW failed me...


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2775

10/08/12 8:33:40 PM#31

The ads I saw didn't tell you anything about the game.  You can't really do that with a brand new IP.

 

I'm not sure who they thought would buy and subscribe to the game.

  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7324

10/08/12 8:34:56 PM#32
Originally posted by jayfeeler69

Price was only a small issue. The issues as I see it are these.

- Story driven mmo. Too many feel burnt on the last story driven mmo TOR. A straight puzzle mmo was never going to fly (look at Myst: Uru Live lasted only two months). There is no reason to level an alt or even replay anything.

Because a game has an amazaing story, doesn't mean it's "story driven" you don't have to do any of the story in TSW.

 

- Lackluster boring combat. I reall y don't need to extrapolate other than most mmos do way better than this.

This to me has always seemed like some cooked up anti viral marketing campaign. Combat in TSW is fast and dynamic. There are so many things you can do with a build, plus the mob AI is pretty damn awesome.

 

- Lack of innovation where it counts. There really wasnt nothing innovative about TSW despite devs saying it was. The skill wheel is nothing more than a round skill tree. Modern day settings and horror in mmos have been done before. Hell even puzzle quests are not new (ie Myst or even look at Rift)

To say the skill wheel is nothing more than a "round skill tree" is ridiculous honestly. There is no skill tree that lets you combine some 530 some abilities any way you choose.

 

- Endgame that complete rewrites what the game was until you got there. Classless system? Only until endgame where you have to roll a specific class no ifs, ands, or buts.

No this is not true about "having to roll" a certain way. There are certain abilities like dispells, clenses and interupts that need to be carried by the group. Hell one person can carry all of those if he wants.

 

- Endgame is nothing more than a gear ladder grind just like any other mmo but done far worse.

Yes the "gear grind" is there if you want to do it. Yes much like other mmorpgs. TSW has a real robust horizontal progession system through gaining abilities and hundreds of cosmetic pieces.  Open world lairs aswell for top gear. 

 

- Crafting is useless, easily the most worthless crafting system since CO

The crafting system allows you to craft any type of gear imaginable. Gear with mitigation and healing for a magic melee tank, or ranged attack power and mitigation for a range tank. You can craft gear for any build you can think of. It's proabably the most usefull crafting system next to EVE. 

 

- Pvp is absolutely a joke

Weeeeell the pvp system is lacking... There is just not enough variety there atm. The battle ground maps are a joke. That being said the last time I had as much fun running with 4 other friends was WoW arena. The way 5 people can sit down and build their builds together from scratch for synergy is something I haven't seen before. But yeah the pvp system need some work. We agree here.

 

 

I think all of these reasons are why the game is empty and dying off

 

 

 

Give me a more robust PvP system Funcom!!!

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

10/08/12 8:35:17 PM#33
Hmm, he may be partially right but in the way he thinks, imo. I think it's obvious that the marketing and PR campaign was nowhere near what happened around AoC. Actually, personally I liked that lowkey approach where they wanted to keep it more about the game and less on some Gaute-driven or Marc Jacobs style epeening rant, it felt more no nonsense and solid, also how Tornquist commented about the game in his enthusiasm. Less chest thumping and more genuine enthusiasm. However, that lowkey campaign approach stuck to the end and that's never good. The campaign could've been done better, look at how Trion did it with Rift for example - tbh, those PR & communication guys at Trion are pure geniuses I think, 1 of the best in the business. It also shows that you can be good at PR and communications without having to resort to downright lying, that 'save a panda' advert for their expansion or how they didn't merge servers but instead renamed a whole bunch of them 'trial servers', brilliant.


What they could've done better in making it commercially more viable is look at the ease of access and smooth control and gameplay with which WoW and some other AAA themepark MMO's draw in players. Make those introduction and first hours a smooth ride, get your animations, character creation and character models as well as combat feel and animation in top shape, and it'll do a LOT to make a good 1st impression. Do that halfbaked, and you'll lose that 1st impression for a large number of players, esp you ask them to fork over a monthly sub which'll make them compare with other MMO's. AoC was better in character models, animation and combat feel and animation, and this surprised me hugely. TSW should've been at least on equal footing.

The overall good responses to the MMO in contrast to how things were with AoC plus the metacritic user scores support that impression of overall more positive commenting than average. But if you want to have more people spend their money, you can't drop the ball in other areas like the above mentioned.
  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

10/08/12 8:39:40 PM#34
Originally posted by Ramonski7

I don't know about anyone else but my experience with TSW was as follows:

 

At the beginning I was enjoying the journey, leveling, figuring out investigations, allocating skill points and running non-elite dungeons. Joined a cabal with the hopes of starting some elite runs to gear up for the next areas. Cabal wasn't too helpful so I went the pug route and did NOT like what I was seeing:

LFM elite blah blah blah 2.3k AR required and must know run.

LFM elite blah blah blah speed runs if AR is not 2.5+ do NOT send tell.

LFM elite blah blah blah farming runs etc, etc ,etc

 

Now I'm no slouch when it comes to playing mmos. I've done the PvPing, raiding and gear grinds with the best of them. Key words there are: I've done. I have no desire to head down that path again and the air of elitism seemed to be quite high in such a short time. Yes I enjoy a challenge just as much as the next guy, but my sleepless nights to stay ahead of the curve are behind me. All I wanted was a mmo with a different vibe that I could sit in my office with, don my headphones, grab a cold one and play without trying to meet the expectations of the mountain dew sucking, 3 monitor havin, dps meter checkin crowd that I once belonged to. And on that note TSW failed me...

Start your own groups. No one was forcing you to join the groups you mentioned. They have no impact on your gameplay unless you let it. I see so many people with complaints like yours and the funny thing is you all could form your own group but you are all sitting around waiting for someone else to make the effort to get a group going.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

10/08/12 8:41:53 PM#35
Originally posted by jayfeeler69

- Lack of innovation where it counts. There really wasnt nothing innovative about TSW despite devs saying it was. The skill wheel is nothing more than a round skill tree. Modern day settings and horror in mmos have been done before. Hell even puzzle quests are not new (ie Myst or even look at Rift)

 

 

Ah, you again. This is utter bullshit btw, but not that I'm that surprised, looks to me that when someone decides to rally nonstop against a game, for some reason they decide to see everything about that game as black and negative as possible >.>

PvE is solid, modern day setting & horror hasn't been done before and definitely not like TSW had - in what parallel universe do you live? - and Investigation Missions is something that Rift doesn't have like that at all. Myst is an idiot example, we're talking MMO's here after all.
  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

10/08/12 8:49:10 PM#36
Played beta for all of 15 minutes before uninstalling. I can't even fathom how anyone hung on longer than that.

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  MagikrorriM

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 172

10/08/12 8:58:09 PM#37

I have been playing TSW since a couple of months prior to release, I am still enjoying the game. It will be interesting to see which direction they will take it and how well they will do with a horizontal progression, instead of a gear grind. Puzzle raids I expect to be really challenging, and unique to the endgame enviroment. I really believe they are going to take it to a sandbox direction, which would be the correct thing to do with such a heavy story telling mmo.

I watch a very small yet steady groups of new players arriving in kingsmouth, it will definately carve out it's niche after all is said and done. GW2 will probbly go the route of an "If I'm bored with my main game", type game.

The mmo genre, used to be a niche genre, WoW brought it to the forefront, catered to more of the fps types and forgot those that loved that niche aspect of the rpg style of gaming. I think that mmos need to recclaim it's roots, get away from the add type of player base, and allow players, to not only use their minds, but their creativity as well. Stop treating the old school gamers, as if we had dull minds and no creative senses.

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

10/08/12 9:01:00 PM#38

I think people are generally tired of funcom.

Good ideas with terrible implementation imo.

end of story.

  Azrile

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 2615

10/08/12 9:18:36 PM#39

TSW paid the price for the AOC launch.  TSW is not a bad game, and certainly could/should have had a bigger launch and box sales.  I think a lot of people, myself included said they would never buy another Funcom game within the first few months of launch... and by the time many people were at the point of buying it, we learn that a huge chunk of the devs are gone, and the game will be going free2win soon.

Any other company makes this exact same game it sells a million boxes and has enough money and time to fix it´s problems.

  Opapanax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/11
Posts: 983

Most Morbid One

10/08/12 9:20:37 PM#40

Interesting read..

Seems like he was speaking with some personalization in there and it wasn't a bunch of market bullshit.

PM before you report at least or you could just block.

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